06-02-2016, 01:38
Progesterone the key
December 12 2006 at 9:22 PM bonnette (Login bonnette)
hello Waxingmoon
i was intrigued by your progress and being based on progesteroncream only. I would like to know how you figured it out that progesterone was the key. i have done these online tests and different times i get different results. only sure thing is excess androgens and saw palmetto has worked for that.i am also very very small, the comment about your ribs sounded familiar
i am on herbs now since the end of august with no results so far. have started to feel more sensations though lately but no growth. i just don't know what to do cos there seem way too many options to try and i have no idea which one could be right. But i also rememeber it being mentioned that with progesteron cream no permanent growth can be achieved thus i was interesting how's it going with you? it's like girls here on this board trying to figure out which one is more important estrogen or progesteron or both. since NBE is not officially scientific yet there is no theories for us only personal experiences.
i have one intresting memory from prebuberty which might not be linked in anyway but still. i remember watching TV with some relatives and family in some gathering and there were some women singing one being totally flat. and at the age of around ten (i started periods at 13) i knew i will be like that. this memory has haunted me til now, no idea why. my mum is small as well but i would be happy to be her size.
the breast issues come to my mind from time to time and since i'm into developing a new relationship i feel so insecure and scared. i know it's not the breasts that matter but wouldn't it be nice if we had some...
anyway sorry i made it so long but i suppose i thought you would understand me.
wish you good growing and to hear about it soon
Bonnette
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 13 2006, 1:10 PM
Hi, Bonnette,
The progesterone idea was brought to my attention through NBE research, but I started using it because I believed I was Estrogen dominant. The online quizes confirmed what I read in the book by Dr. John Lee, 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause'.
I suspected progesterone was good for NBE after reading the Bountiful Breast site, but I wasn't comfortable with the idea of bovine ovary or the price. Since you can buy natural progesterone cream over-the-counter, I decided to give it a shot.
The biggest result was in the first cycle of use. I grew an inch, but that doesn't tell you just how much my breast changed. Before progesterone, I had virtually no breast tissue, just nipple and some very lumpy tissue. Within weeks my breasts were rounder, projected our more and were very soft. There was a lot of swelling that first cycle. I actually measured 2 inches larger until my period. Dr. Lee explains that when you first use progesterone there is an intensification of estrogen. All the receptors turn on, so I had a lot of fluid gain. However, I know the inch that remained is there to stay. It has been three cycles now and that inch never goes away.
I think the results were so sudden and the growth is continueing because I supplied what my body had been missing all these years. I am very health conscious. I had already been using protein drinks and vitamins before trying the progesterone. My body was primed to build the hormones it needed and I provided the missing link.
Will it work for anyone else? Of course that depends. I resisted posting my program until I felt certain that my growth was permanent and still increasing. If you are progesterone deficient (estrogen dominant) then you don't have the basic building blocks for NBE. Progesterone is used by the body to create other hormones. A person who is progesterone deficient might very well score high on many of the hormone quizes. I know I did. Using natural progesterone cream could aid NBE greatly. But there is nothing magic about it. It is the right solution for the right problem.
I also believe natural progesterone cream is extremely safe. If you try it, use USP grade progesterone. This means it is 'bio-identical' to human progesterone. Use it on days 12 - 28 of your cycle. Put the cream on thin skinned areas that don't have a lot of body fat (inside of arms, tops of thighs, back of neck, tops of feet). Dr. Lee's book really outlines the amount and other dosages for other problems. If you have PMS, estrogen dominance, or thyroid deficiency your symptoms may respond positively. And your breasts may grow!
If in several cycles you notice no changes for the better, then you can stop and no harm is done.
I wish you well if you want to try this. If you really do think you have estrogen dominance, then cut out the herbs. Adding more estrogen in, even phytoestrogen, is going the wrong way. I am using the herb Maca which supports progesterone production and I have just started using Vitex angus castus for the same reason. I use reasonable amounts as stated on the packages. Too much progesterone shuts down the receptors and you lose the benefits. Be sure to increase your protein by using whey protein. This form of protein is very fast in absorption. Use 40 - 60 grams per day (two to three drinks). You will need this to make use of the progesterone. Without it your body has nothing to build with.
Let me know how you are doing. I would be eager to see if someone else has the success I have had with progesterone. I think I may have started as one of the smallest (36aaaa?), so even with my gains I bet I am still smaller than most who begin NBE. I will have to gain a total of 4 inches just to reach 36A size. But let me tell you - I appreciate every molecule. I still can't believe I have gained as much as I have. I hope you have as much fun with this as I have.
Keep me posted,
waxingmoon
Anonymous
(Login Corrie73)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 13 2006, 5:38 PM
Wow Waxingmoon! That is really incredible. Congratulations! You must be thrilled with your growth.
Can I ask you, what symptoms did you have that let you know that you were estrogen dominant? I am always very confused by the online hormone tests, because I end up checking boxes in all the categories. So I guess I am completely unbalanced!
I'd be interested in what your primary symptoms of estrogen dominance were.
Good luck to all!
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 13 2006, 6:13 PM
thank you Waxingmoon for the nice answer
i have been wondering the same about loading myself with the phytoestrogens when in fact according to the online tests i should add progesteron. but i'm just not very convinced with those tests either. my overall health seemed to get better while on herbs: more regular/shorter cycle, no PMS (that's strange) but also heavier bleeding on first days and terrible stomachaches. Which leads me to think wheter i'm in lack of progesteron or not.
i totally agree with you with every breastmolecule being a blessing
and i can only imagine how happy i would be with a nice little A cup (im aaa something as well).
i would definately give the progesteron a try i think after this cycle if nothing happens (growth i mean, cos i have had clear sensations this cycle from the beginning). I'm using Vitex already to balance hormones although have no idea what to balance here.
How about the sensations? did you get any and what part of the cycle?
And did you put on weight with the proteindrinks? i have tried to eat as much proteins as possible but have also noticed some weightgain anywhere but breasts.
Where can one buy progesteron cream, in pharmacy? do i have to explain why i need it, obviously i don't want to tell the reason.
Sorry about so many questions.
i wish you a good growing and i will let you know how it goes with me.
keep in touch!
Bonnette
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 14 2006, 2:01 PM
I don't mind the questions at all. I hope I can help you.
Corrie,
Here is a list of symptoms I had that reflect estrogen dominance (sorry, it's a long one):
allergies, breast tenderness, cold hands & feet and symptoms of thyoid dysfunction, depression with anxiety, dry eyes, fat gain around abs, hips and thighs, fatigue, fibrocystic breasts, foggy thinking, hair loss, headaches, irregular periods, irritability, insomnia, memory loss, mood swings, PMS, sluggish metabolism, water retension.
There are other symptoms as well that I did not have:
auto-immune disorder, breast cancer, cervical dysplasia, copper excess, gallbladder disease, hypoglycemia, increased blood clotting, infertility (but I never tried to get pregnant), osteoporosis, polycystic ovaries, uterine fibroids.
Several of these symptoms may also show up on other hormone balance quizes. I know I get high marks on many others. Here is why I think it all hinges on Estrogen Dominance (or deficient progesterone):
Progesterone is used to create many other hormones (androstenedione, testosterone, estrogen, cortisol and aldosterone). If you don't create adequate amounts of progesterone you begin to have multiple system problems and symptoms. My resource for understanding all this is Dr. John Lee. He coined the term Estrogen Dominance. His books explain this rather confusing issue. The one I am studying is 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause', and no matter what your age, I suggest it. The symptoms of estrogen/progesterone imbalance can start 20 or 30 years before menopause. I know I have had many of my symptoms since I was a teenager.
Natural Progesterone cream is a god-send. In the first week I used it many of my symptoms vanished. That alone convinced me I was on the right track. I am not out of it yet, but I am getting there. Sorry to be so long winded, but it is a complicated issue.
Bonnette,
You should be able to find progesterone cream sitting on the shelf. There are several brands. Make sure you get one that has USP progesterone in the ingredients. That means it is bio-identical to what your body makes. I noticed in your program you take wild yam. You may get some phytoestrogens from wild yam, but your body simply cannot make progesterone from it. They get progesterone from wild yam in the lab only. Vitex is the only herb I know that for sure increases your progesterone. If you have to ask some pharmacist for the progesterone cream, you can always say it is for PMS, which it does a great job for.
I don't think the whey protein has caused me any weight gain, but my weight has fluctuated up and down since starting the progesterone. It is likely because my body was so progesterone deficient that it is waking up estrogen receptors and my body is packing on extra fat. Only about 5 pounds, which I am certain in the next few months will melt away as my progesterone levels stabilize.
As far as sensations, they come and go. I still have luteal swelling due to the excess estrogen reaction of my body. This is normal in the first few months of progesterone use. Last cycle I could barely touch my breasts they were so tender. Today they are just hanging around silent. They usually get fuzzy feeling after I massage them.
Sorry again for the 'novel'. They did a study that said women talk about 3 times as much as men. I figure with my estrogen dominance I must talk about 3 times as much as most women... lol
waxingmoon
bonnette
(no login)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 14 2006, 6:16 PM
thank you waxingmoon once again
i let you know how it goes when i start
Bonnette
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 12:54 PM
one more question.
did or didn't you try the herbs first?
i'm still wondering what to do since i get quite strong sensations once in a while but no growth. tried to take some pics today and it's extremely depressing. i feel like i stopped developing in very early stage and that's it.
All the best
Bonnette
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 1:34 PM
No, I didn't try any herbs. Once I discovered the estrogen dominance I was very concerned about any increases to estrogen, especially when I had such a strong positive reaction to progesterone. You may very well be a good candidate for progesterone use since the herbs have not affected you. Remember, it may take more than one cycle before you notice anything with progesterone.
I hope this can help you with your growth. Remember not to start until day 12 of your cycle. This will give your ovaries a chance to ovulate and if they do, they will then create progesterone for you and your use of the cream will be enhanced.
Best of luck,
waxingmoon
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 1:38 PM
Thank you again
what is the price of progesteron-cream? i have checked it in internet and it seems to be quite costly.
i might go and check it in herbstore today.
Bonnette
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 2:24 PM
ok, i was to the pharmacy and herbstore and it seems here in Italy it's only with prescription. i'm afraid it's the same in my homecountry in northern europa.
Are you in Europa Waxingmoon?
sad Bonnette
Anonymous
(Login anna-a)
To Bonnette
December 15 2006, 2:35 PM
Hey Bonnette,
Where are you from? I'm from Belgium
Greets,
Anna
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 2:40 PM
Hey Bonnette,
I found this site with the cream I use:
http://www.sportsnetrition.com/now_progesterone_cream_page.html
I am in the US. I get mine from a local store, but I may start ordering off the internet. That price was lower than I pay.
Hope this helps,
waxingmoon
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 5:44 PM
Anna-a
i'm studying in italy at the moment but im from finland.
Could it be that progesteron cream is only with prescription everywhere in Europa? And thus even shipping from US could be complicated? Has anyone had this issue?
Bonnette
Vicky A
(Login VickyA)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 5:58 PM
In the UK progesterone cream is prescription only.
michelle choi
(Login chelle_choi)
SENIOR MEMBER
hi waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 9:12 PM
Just wanted to see how it's going with the Maca, I think I read on another post that you started taking it, just wondering if you think that's helping with the progesterone cream for you?? I hope you see more results soon. Take care.
Michelle
Breastfest
(Login Breastfest)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 10:48 PM
Waxingmoon-
You have been such an encouragement to me! I've always called myself an A- because I never even developed breast buds and only saw where my breasts were 'supposed' to be after two pregnancies and breastfeeding (both times I only ended up being barely above an A). I started my program on Nov 26 but because of reading yours and doing more research, I've totally revamped it. I just wasn't feeling totally right about all of that estrogen and now I know why. I don't think I needed it. I think I've been estrogen dominant my whole life but have learned to deal with the symptoms and mask it. I have changed to taking just Vitex x2 twice daily. Already I feel a little better. I am thinking of doing a cleanse, too, to get rid of excess estrogen and help myself out a bit. Thius week I am going to the health food store to investigate cream. I have always fought being underweight, ever found any link between that and estrogen dominance?
Thanks again! Happy glowing and growing!
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 11:12 PM
Hi Michelle,
I take the maca every morning by mixing a scoop in with my protein powder. I have no inkling whether it is working or not. When I run out of this 1 lb bag I may stop for a cycle and see if there is any negative results.
Breastfest,
There may very well be a link between your low weight and estrogen dominance. Too much estrogen can depress your thyroid function due to estrogen encouraging thyroid binding hormone production. This would make a person test normal on a thyroid test, but actually suffer as if they had low thyroid output. Low thyroid output (hypothyroidism) often makes a person gain weight, but a lesser known effect is that it can make a person have low body weight. It may especially affect a person's ability to gain muscle mass. This may result in a person looking thin but actually having a rather high body fat amount. (a 'fat' thin person). I have been that 'fat' thin person and it took a whole lot of nutrition and a whole lot of weight training to correct this.
I hope everyone can benefit from my experiences.
waxingmoon
Breastfest
(Login Breastfest)
You're an angel...
December 16 2006, 1:04 AM
Waxingmoon,
If I could, I would hug you!! You have been able to tell me in one post what doctors, coaches, personal trainers and nutritionists haven't been able to tell me for years. I would work out and work out but worked 10X's harder than anyone else to put on just a little bit of muscle. I had a high TSH (sign of hypothyroidism) about 2 years ago but my doctor passed it off as a fluke saying I didn't exhibit any of the 'classic' signs of the disorder. He retested me and I came back normal, but only barely. Most people have blown me off saying, "What are you complaining about being skinny for, I'd love to be in your shoes." Or else accusations of eating disorders are generally thrown around, to my dismay. Thank you, thank you, thank you, for giving me a little ammo and a LOT OF HOPE!!
Breastfest
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 16 2006, 8:16 AM
i'm getting even more confused now ...lol
i can't tell what symphtoms i have. Before NBE i had long and irregular cycle after my breakup, now of herbs it's regular but extremely heavy bleeding (obviously estrogent dominant which makes sense popping all these phytoestrogens). But then again there is no PMS as such only bad period cramps (but this is not concidered PMS).
I have started to put on weight on belly and hips (also due to phytoestrogens probably). i did notice few years ago that my bodytemeprature was extremely low like 35 C and i was feeling like i had a fever. i was on Wondrup at that time but didn't know it could have anything to do with it. what i was thinking, not sure, that maybe i was low on both estrogen and progesteron before NBE and now i'm higher on estrogen but still low on progesteron. does the use of progesteroncream help out also the lack of other hormones since i read somewhere it's used to produce other hormones? does using progesteroncream and taking Agnus Castus have a same effect cos i seems impossible to get progesteroncream in Europa?
i absolutley apologise to put everything here in my writing but maybe somebody can comment it or give the clue why i havent grown.
Thanks,
Bonnette
cutevelvet
(Login cutevelvet)
in uk
December 16 2006, 11:37 AM
http://www.biovea.net/product_detail.asp?PID=1266&CID=0&POS=4&PageNo=&Total=5
here is a link of how to purchase the cream online. what i wanted to ask is that for those who are unsure about whether they are progesterone deficient or not can they use pills like wonder up and massage breasts with progesterone cream or will that stall the growth? any advice appreciated.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 16 2006, 1:45 PM
Breastfest,
Glad I could help you. It took me years to find the connection between thinness and hypothyroidism. It has only been with my study of progesterone that I now understand why a person with hypothyroid symptoms might test normal on thyroid tests.
Bonnette,
I think that the Vitex will help with increasing progesterone. If you cut down on how much phytoestrogen you take in, as well as reduce the xenoestrogens (artificial estrogens) you get from pesticides, solvents, plastics, perfumed soaps... (the list goes on and on) you will be able to create balance. I am also using the herb maca which is thought to help your body produce whatever hormones it needs. It does not have as much research as Vitex. I cannot tell how much it is helping me, but supposedly it is.
Cutevelvet,
Phytoestrogens are supposed to take up space on estrogen receptors and produce a milder estrogen effect. If you are highly estrogen dominant, even this will be a problem if you do not raise your progesterone. Dr. Lee advises placing progesterone on skin areas that have low fat and high circulation. He does however talk about using progestrone cream on the breast for fibrocystic breasts, so it is not going to harm you to use it there. However, you won't bring progesterone into circulation as fast. I would also advise you not to use the cream on the same skin area two days in a row. This would reduce absorption and might raise a risk of allergic reaction. Every other day or every three days would be better with other body areas used in between.
waxingmoon
Anna
(Login anna-a)
To Waxingmoon
December 16 2006, 4:19 PM
Hey Waxingmoon,
I'm also estrogen dominant and recognize myself in all of the symptoms you described. I'm going to give vitex and wild yam cream a try (as progesterone cream is so hard to find in Europe). Do you know if wild yam cream should also only be used during the second half of your cycle or can you use it all the time?
Thanks,
Anna
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 16 2006, 5:09 PM
Hi Waxingmoon, I want to say your program is very well thought out and provides a really good insight and empyrical evidence to the theory, thanx much for contributing this information.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 17 2006, 2:02 AM
Hi Anna,
You will probably do well with the Vitex. I doubt the wild yam will benefit you by increasing progesterone. They do create progesterone out of wild yam, but only in the lab. We cannot take the molecule from wild yam and turn it into progesterone in our bodies. Wild yam when taken acts as a phytoestrogen, so it may have some benefits, but it will not increase progesterone.
Thanks Moon, I have spent a lot of time researching progesterone and trying to create a plan that had no negative health effects for myself. So far so good. I am happy to share my experiences so that others can benefit from what I have learned.
waxingmoon
December 12 2006 at 9:22 PM bonnette (Login bonnette)
hello Waxingmoon
i was intrigued by your progress and being based on progesteroncream only. I would like to know how you figured it out that progesterone was the key. i have done these online tests and different times i get different results. only sure thing is excess androgens and saw palmetto has worked for that.i am also very very small, the comment about your ribs sounded familiar
i am on herbs now since the end of august with no results so far. have started to feel more sensations though lately but no growth. i just don't know what to do cos there seem way too many options to try and i have no idea which one could be right. But i also rememeber it being mentioned that with progesteron cream no permanent growth can be achieved thus i was interesting how's it going with you? it's like girls here on this board trying to figure out which one is more important estrogen or progesteron or both. since NBE is not officially scientific yet there is no theories for us only personal experiences.
i have one intresting memory from prebuberty which might not be linked in anyway but still. i remember watching TV with some relatives and family in some gathering and there were some women singing one being totally flat. and at the age of around ten (i started periods at 13) i knew i will be like that. this memory has haunted me til now, no idea why. my mum is small as well but i would be happy to be her size.
the breast issues come to my mind from time to time and since i'm into developing a new relationship i feel so insecure and scared. i know it's not the breasts that matter but wouldn't it be nice if we had some...
anyway sorry i made it so long but i suppose i thought you would understand me.
wish you good growing and to hear about it soon
Bonnette
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 13 2006, 1:10 PM
Hi, Bonnette,
The progesterone idea was brought to my attention through NBE research, but I started using it because I believed I was Estrogen dominant. The online quizes confirmed what I read in the book by Dr. John Lee, 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause'.
I suspected progesterone was good for NBE after reading the Bountiful Breast site, but I wasn't comfortable with the idea of bovine ovary or the price. Since you can buy natural progesterone cream over-the-counter, I decided to give it a shot.
The biggest result was in the first cycle of use. I grew an inch, but that doesn't tell you just how much my breast changed. Before progesterone, I had virtually no breast tissue, just nipple and some very lumpy tissue. Within weeks my breasts were rounder, projected our more and were very soft. There was a lot of swelling that first cycle. I actually measured 2 inches larger until my period. Dr. Lee explains that when you first use progesterone there is an intensification of estrogen. All the receptors turn on, so I had a lot of fluid gain. However, I know the inch that remained is there to stay. It has been three cycles now and that inch never goes away.
I think the results were so sudden and the growth is continueing because I supplied what my body had been missing all these years. I am very health conscious. I had already been using protein drinks and vitamins before trying the progesterone. My body was primed to build the hormones it needed and I provided the missing link.
Will it work for anyone else? Of course that depends. I resisted posting my program until I felt certain that my growth was permanent and still increasing. If you are progesterone deficient (estrogen dominant) then you don't have the basic building blocks for NBE. Progesterone is used by the body to create other hormones. A person who is progesterone deficient might very well score high on many of the hormone quizes. I know I did. Using natural progesterone cream could aid NBE greatly. But there is nothing magic about it. It is the right solution for the right problem.
I also believe natural progesterone cream is extremely safe. If you try it, use USP grade progesterone. This means it is 'bio-identical' to human progesterone. Use it on days 12 - 28 of your cycle. Put the cream on thin skinned areas that don't have a lot of body fat (inside of arms, tops of thighs, back of neck, tops of feet). Dr. Lee's book really outlines the amount and other dosages for other problems. If you have PMS, estrogen dominance, or thyroid deficiency your symptoms may respond positively. And your breasts may grow!
If in several cycles you notice no changes for the better, then you can stop and no harm is done.I wish you well if you want to try this. If you really do think you have estrogen dominance, then cut out the herbs. Adding more estrogen in, even phytoestrogen, is going the wrong way. I am using the herb Maca which supports progesterone production and I have just started using Vitex angus castus for the same reason. I use reasonable amounts as stated on the packages. Too much progesterone shuts down the receptors and you lose the benefits. Be sure to increase your protein by using whey protein. This form of protein is very fast in absorption. Use 40 - 60 grams per day (two to three drinks). You will need this to make use of the progesterone. Without it your body has nothing to build with.
Let me know how you are doing. I would be eager to see if someone else has the success I have had with progesterone. I think I may have started as one of the smallest (36aaaa?), so even with my gains I bet I am still smaller than most who begin NBE. I will have to gain a total of 4 inches just to reach 36A size. But let me tell you - I appreciate every molecule. I still can't believe I have gained as much as I have. I hope you have as much fun with this as I have.
Keep me posted,
waxingmoon
Anonymous
(Login Corrie73)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 13 2006, 5:38 PM
Wow Waxingmoon! That is really incredible. Congratulations! You must be thrilled with your growth.
Can I ask you, what symptoms did you have that let you know that you were estrogen dominant? I am always very confused by the online hormone tests, because I end up checking boxes in all the categories. So I guess I am completely unbalanced!
I'd be interested in what your primary symptoms of estrogen dominance were.
Good luck to all!
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 13 2006, 6:13 PM
thank you Waxingmoon for the nice answer
i have been wondering the same about loading myself with the phytoestrogens when in fact according to the online tests i should add progesteron. but i'm just not very convinced with those tests either. my overall health seemed to get better while on herbs: more regular/shorter cycle, no PMS (that's strange) but also heavier bleeding on first days and terrible stomachaches. Which leads me to think wheter i'm in lack of progesteron or not.
i totally agree with you with every breastmolecule being a blessing
and i can only imagine how happy i would be with a nice little A cup (im aaa something as well).i would definately give the progesteron a try i think after this cycle if nothing happens (growth i mean, cos i have had clear sensations this cycle from the beginning). I'm using Vitex already to balance hormones although have no idea what to balance here.
How about the sensations? did you get any and what part of the cycle?
And did you put on weight with the proteindrinks? i have tried to eat as much proteins as possible but have also noticed some weightgain anywhere but breasts.
Where can one buy progesteron cream, in pharmacy? do i have to explain why i need it, obviously i don't want to tell the reason.
Sorry about so many questions.
i wish you a good growing and i will let you know how it goes with me.
keep in touch!
Bonnette
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 14 2006, 2:01 PM
I don't mind the questions at all. I hope I can help you.
Corrie,
Here is a list of symptoms I had that reflect estrogen dominance (sorry, it's a long one):
allergies, breast tenderness, cold hands & feet and symptoms of thyoid dysfunction, depression with anxiety, dry eyes, fat gain around abs, hips and thighs, fatigue, fibrocystic breasts, foggy thinking, hair loss, headaches, irregular periods, irritability, insomnia, memory loss, mood swings, PMS, sluggish metabolism, water retension.
There are other symptoms as well that I did not have:
auto-immune disorder, breast cancer, cervical dysplasia, copper excess, gallbladder disease, hypoglycemia, increased blood clotting, infertility (but I never tried to get pregnant), osteoporosis, polycystic ovaries, uterine fibroids.
Several of these symptoms may also show up on other hormone balance quizes. I know I get high marks on many others. Here is why I think it all hinges on Estrogen Dominance (or deficient progesterone):
Progesterone is used to create many other hormones (androstenedione, testosterone, estrogen, cortisol and aldosterone). If you don't create adequate amounts of progesterone you begin to have multiple system problems and symptoms. My resource for understanding all this is Dr. John Lee. He coined the term Estrogen Dominance. His books explain this rather confusing issue. The one I am studying is 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause', and no matter what your age, I suggest it. The symptoms of estrogen/progesterone imbalance can start 20 or 30 years before menopause. I know I have had many of my symptoms since I was a teenager.
Natural Progesterone cream is a god-send. In the first week I used it many of my symptoms vanished. That alone convinced me I was on the right track. I am not out of it yet, but I am getting there. Sorry to be so long winded, but it is a complicated issue.
Bonnette,
You should be able to find progesterone cream sitting on the shelf. There are several brands. Make sure you get one that has USP progesterone in the ingredients. That means it is bio-identical to what your body makes. I noticed in your program you take wild yam. You may get some phytoestrogens from wild yam, but your body simply cannot make progesterone from it. They get progesterone from wild yam in the lab only. Vitex is the only herb I know that for sure increases your progesterone. If you have to ask some pharmacist for the progesterone cream, you can always say it is for PMS, which it does a great job for.
I don't think the whey protein has caused me any weight gain, but my weight has fluctuated up and down since starting the progesterone. It is likely because my body was so progesterone deficient that it is waking up estrogen receptors and my body is packing on extra fat. Only about 5 pounds, which I am certain in the next few months will melt away as my progesterone levels stabilize.
As far as sensations, they come and go. I still have luteal swelling due to the excess estrogen reaction of my body. This is normal in the first few months of progesterone use. Last cycle I could barely touch my breasts they were so tender. Today they are just hanging around silent. They usually get fuzzy feeling after I massage them.
Sorry again for the 'novel'. They did a study that said women talk about 3 times as much as men. I figure with my estrogen dominance I must talk about 3 times as much as most women... lol
waxingmoon
bonnette
(no login)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 14 2006, 6:16 PM
thank you waxingmoon once again
i let you know how it goes when i start
Bonnette
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 12:54 PM
one more question.
did or didn't you try the herbs first?
i'm still wondering what to do since i get quite strong sensations once in a while but no growth. tried to take some pics today and it's extremely depressing. i feel like i stopped developing in very early stage and that's it.
All the best
Bonnette
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 1:34 PM
No, I didn't try any herbs. Once I discovered the estrogen dominance I was very concerned about any increases to estrogen, especially when I had such a strong positive reaction to progesterone. You may very well be a good candidate for progesterone use since the herbs have not affected you. Remember, it may take more than one cycle before you notice anything with progesterone.
I hope this can help you with your growth. Remember not to start until day 12 of your cycle. This will give your ovaries a chance to ovulate and if they do, they will then create progesterone for you and your use of the cream will be enhanced.
Best of luck,
waxingmoon
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 1:38 PM
Thank you again
what is the price of progesteron-cream? i have checked it in internet and it seems to be quite costly.
i might go and check it in herbstore today.
Bonnette
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 2:24 PM
ok, i was to the pharmacy and herbstore and it seems here in Italy it's only with prescription
. i'm afraid it's the same in my homecountry in northern europa.Are you in Europa Waxingmoon?
sad Bonnette
Anonymous
(Login anna-a)
To Bonnette
December 15 2006, 2:35 PM
Hey Bonnette,
Where are you from? I'm from Belgium
Greets,
Anna
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 2:40 PM
Hey Bonnette,
I found this site with the cream I use:
http://www.sportsnetrition.com/now_progesterone_cream_page.html
I am in the US. I get mine from a local store, but I may start ordering off the internet. That price was lower than I pay.
Hope this helps,
waxingmoon
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 5:44 PM
Anna-a
i'm studying in italy at the moment but im from finland.
Could it be that progesteron cream is only with prescription everywhere in Europa? And thus even shipping from US could be complicated? Has anyone had this issue?
Bonnette
Vicky A
(Login VickyA)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 5:58 PM
In the UK progesterone cream is prescription only.
michelle choi
(Login chelle_choi)
SENIOR MEMBER
hi waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 9:12 PM
Just wanted to see how it's going with the Maca, I think I read on another post that you started taking it, just wondering if you think that's helping with the progesterone cream for you?? I hope you see more results soon. Take care.
Michelle
Breastfest
(Login Breastfest)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 10:48 PM
Waxingmoon-
You have been such an encouragement to me! I've always called myself an A- because I never even developed breast buds and only saw where my breasts were 'supposed' to be after two pregnancies and breastfeeding (both times I only ended up being barely above an A). I started my program on Nov 26 but because of reading yours and doing more research, I've totally revamped it. I just wasn't feeling totally right about all of that estrogen and now I know why. I don't think I needed it. I think I've been estrogen dominant my whole life but have learned to deal with the symptoms and mask it. I have changed to taking just Vitex x2 twice daily. Already I feel a little better. I am thinking of doing a cleanse, too, to get rid of excess estrogen and help myself out a bit. Thius week I am going to the health food store to investigate cream. I have always fought being underweight, ever found any link between that and estrogen dominance?
Thanks again! Happy glowing and growing!
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 15 2006, 11:12 PM
Hi Michelle,
I take the maca every morning by mixing a scoop in with my protein powder. I have no inkling whether it is working or not. When I run out of this 1 lb bag I may stop for a cycle and see if there is any negative results.
Breastfest,
There may very well be a link between your low weight and estrogen dominance. Too much estrogen can depress your thyroid function due to estrogen encouraging thyroid binding hormone production. This would make a person test normal on a thyroid test, but actually suffer as if they had low thyroid output. Low thyroid output (hypothyroidism) often makes a person gain weight, but a lesser known effect is that it can make a person have low body weight. It may especially affect a person's ability to gain muscle mass. This may result in a person looking thin but actually having a rather high body fat amount. (a 'fat' thin person). I have been that 'fat' thin person and it took a whole lot of nutrition and a whole lot of weight training to correct this.
I hope everyone can benefit from my experiences.
waxingmoon
Breastfest
(Login Breastfest)
You're an angel...
December 16 2006, 1:04 AM
Waxingmoon,
If I could, I would hug you!! You have been able to tell me in one post what doctors, coaches, personal trainers and nutritionists haven't been able to tell me for years. I would work out and work out but worked 10X's harder than anyone else to put on just a little bit of muscle. I had a high TSH (sign of hypothyroidism) about 2 years ago but my doctor passed it off as a fluke saying I didn't exhibit any of the 'classic' signs of the disorder. He retested me and I came back normal, but only barely. Most people have blown me off saying, "What are you complaining about being skinny for, I'd love to be in your shoes." Or else accusations of eating disorders are generally thrown around, to my dismay. Thank you, thank you, thank you, for giving me a little ammo and a LOT OF HOPE!!
Breastfest
bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 16 2006, 8:16 AM
i'm getting even more confused now ...lol
i can't tell what symphtoms i have. Before NBE i had long and irregular cycle after my breakup, now of herbs it's regular but extremely heavy bleeding (obviously estrogent dominant which makes sense popping all these phytoestrogens). But then again there is no PMS as such only bad period cramps (but this is not concidered PMS).
I have started to put on weight on belly and hips (also due to phytoestrogens probably). i did notice few years ago that my bodytemeprature was extremely low like 35 C and i was feeling like i had a fever. i was on Wondrup at that time but didn't know it could have anything to do with it. what i was thinking, not sure, that maybe i was low on both estrogen and progesteron before NBE and now i'm higher on estrogen but still low on progesteron. does the use of progesteroncream help out also the lack of other hormones since i read somewhere it's used to produce other hormones? does using progesteroncream and taking Agnus Castus have a same effect cos i seems impossible to get progesteroncream in Europa?
i absolutley apologise to put everything here in my writing but maybe somebody can comment it or give the clue why i havent grown.
Thanks,
Bonnette
cutevelvet
(Login cutevelvet)
in uk
December 16 2006, 11:37 AM
http://www.biovea.net/product_detail.asp?PID=1266&CID=0&POS=4&PageNo=&Total=5
here is a link of how to purchase the cream online. what i wanted to ask is that for those who are unsure about whether they are progesterone deficient or not can they use pills like wonder up and massage breasts with progesterone cream or will that stall the growth? any advice appreciated.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 16 2006, 1:45 PM
Breastfest,
Glad I could help you. It took me years to find the connection between thinness and hypothyroidism. It has only been with my study of progesterone that I now understand why a person with hypothyroid symptoms might test normal on thyroid tests.
Bonnette,
I think that the Vitex will help with increasing progesterone. If you cut down on how much phytoestrogen you take in, as well as reduce the xenoestrogens (artificial estrogens) you get from pesticides, solvents, plastics, perfumed soaps... (the list goes on and on) you will be able to create balance. I am also using the herb maca which is thought to help your body produce whatever hormones it needs. It does not have as much research as Vitex. I cannot tell how much it is helping me, but supposedly it is.
Cutevelvet,
Phytoestrogens are supposed to take up space on estrogen receptors and produce a milder estrogen effect. If you are highly estrogen dominant, even this will be a problem if you do not raise your progesterone. Dr. Lee advises placing progesterone on skin areas that have low fat and high circulation. He does however talk about using progestrone cream on the breast for fibrocystic breasts, so it is not going to harm you to use it there. However, you won't bring progesterone into circulation as fast. I would also advise you not to use the cream on the same skin area two days in a row. This would reduce absorption and might raise a risk of allergic reaction. Every other day or every three days would be better with other body areas used in between.
waxingmoon
Anna
(Login anna-a)
To Waxingmoon
December 16 2006, 4:19 PM
Hey Waxingmoon,
I'm also estrogen dominant and recognize myself in all of the symptoms you described. I'm going to give vitex and wild yam cream a try (as progesterone cream is so hard to find in Europe). Do you know if wild yam cream should also only be used during the second half of your cycle or can you use it all the time?
Thanks,
Anna
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 16 2006, 5:09 PM
Hi Waxingmoon, I want to say your program is very well thought out and provides a really good insight and empyrical evidence to the theory, thanx much for contributing this information.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: to Waxingmoon
December 17 2006, 2:02 AM
Hi Anna,
You will probably do well with the Vitex. I doubt the wild yam will benefit you by increasing progesterone. They do create progesterone out of wild yam, but only in the lab. We cannot take the molecule from wild yam and turn it into progesterone in our bodies. Wild yam when taken acts as a phytoestrogen, so it may have some benefits, but it will not increase progesterone.
Thanks Moon, I have spent a lot of time researching progesterone and trying to create a plan that had no negative health effects for myself. So far so good. I am happy to share my experiences so that others can benefit from what I have learned.
waxingmoon