21-02-2016, 13:20
My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 9 2007 at 10:49 PM LL (Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hi everyone,
I have a brilliant friend (something that she developed might earn her a Nobel prize one day, according to another Nobel winner).
This is what she has to say about PCOS - advice for anyone who has it. She's experienced many hormonal problems that are similar herself.
...
The book "It's my Ovaries, Stupid" is probably a good place to start. The real
bummer is that most authors and doctors are pretty clueless and have jumped
on the bandwagon that insulin problems cause hormone problems (or they
debate whether it's the chicken or the egg.)
If you look at the way estrogen is made...
Cholesterol --> Progesterone --> Testosterone --> Estrogen
...you see that testosterone is the immediate precursor to estrogen. So,
one obvious "answer" is that there's a problem making estrogen, causing
testosterone to build up on the other side. (Or, there's too little
cholesterol to make hormones in general, or there are problems synthesizing
progesterone* from the ovaries, etc.) Elizabeth Vliet (It's my Ovaries,
Stupid) says that women with PCOS have too little estrogen and too much
testosterone, so my hypothesis seems valid.
(*Note: Don't use progesterone creams. If you don't fix the T-->E problem,
then extra progesterone ends up giving you MORE testosterone.)
So, I've been trying to get down to the process of how estrogen is made, and
one of my observations is that essential fatty acids and fat soluble
vitamins are important, as well as mineral cofactors like calcium.
If I had to make a protocol for anyone with PCOS, my first recommendation
would be the egg yolks.
1.) egg yolks (*not* fortified with omega-3): 2 per day
2.) seafood (get omega-3 from real food, not supplements!): 1-2x per week
3.) mineral rich foods
a. Broths and Dark leafy greens for calcium, magnesium
b. Red meats, shellfish for zinc
c. Sea salt for trace minerals
4.) Low sugar diet in general, regardless of weight
And for some observations: the egg yolks contain a very important EFA,
which is much maligned in the layman's press. If a person is
deficient in this one EFA, then starting on the egg yolk regime may
initially lead to some flu-like aches and pains. The reason is that cell
receptors can be "primed" to suck it up, and then when you suddenly give
them all they want, they get "swamped" with it. This can last for a few
weeks, until cell receptor levels normalize to the new levels of intake.
(The body is very good about regulating stuff like this...) On the other
hand, some people never have a problem. It's just something to look out
for, and not to worry about if it does happen.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
More information
February 10 2007, 3:12 AM
women with PCOS don't ovulate and therefore don't produce progesterone through that route. Progesterone is also made by the adrenal gland, so there is at least enough for making a full
complement of steroids (though maybe not in enough quantity to support
gestation.)
Clearly, there is enough testosterone in women with PCOS, so I don't think
that progesterone deficiency is the cause of the problem.
The EFA that I mention in egg yolks is arachidonic acid. One large egg
supplies approximately 65mg of AA, and for reference, French women eat about
~150mg AA per day. So, that's how I figure that 2 egg yolks per day are
good source of AA, especially if a person doesn't consume vegetable oil or
has trouble synthesizing AA from linoleic acid (due to a less-efficienct
Delta-6-desaturase or other enzyme in the pathway.)
-Laurel
Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 10 2007, 7:50 AM
That was a very interesting read! Thank you for posting it. I really does make a lot of sense.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 10 2007, 8:02 AM
You're welcome, Fennel Fairy.
It's interesting that traditionally in many cultures eggs have been considered to be a very important food for fertility.
Free range eggs are best, of course. Orange yolks are good.
Laurel started to have many PCOS symptoms herself not so long ago. She was also reacting allergically to many different foods. She did an ALCAT test for allergies, and although she reacted to eggs, she knew how important they were so she set about to stop the reactions. She found that by sealing up her system by either taking glutamine for a few days, or a product called SeaCure (fermented fish product), that stopped things from leaking into her system (what allergies are. Foods aren't supposed to leak into our blood like that). To give her self good 'bugs' (bacteria) in her intestines, she took (and still takes) a special probiotic called VSL3
http://www.vsl3.com/VSL3/about.asp
She has tried many probiotics, and this is the one she recommends for this kind of thing because it's potent and contains bacteria that really seem to treat problems thoughroughly, candida included, I think.
Pharmacies can order it. Expensive, but I trust her since she's been through all of this and often charts things on graphs, etc.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 10 2007, 8:06 AM
I forgot to say that after going through all of that, her skin cleared and she has a much healthier hormonal profile. She had quite bad PMS for a while. I mean she had bad PMS for a while BEFORE doing everything!
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 10 2007, 8:19 AM
The glutamine, Sea Cure and probiotics may not be helpful for everyone, but in modern times problems with digestion and allergies have really gone up, so it might be helpful for people (PCOS or no PCOS) to consider that protocol.
Hormonal problems reflect problems with health in some way, so anything that we can do to help our health is great.
But eggs are easy to get, at least, so that's not a difficult thing to try. Having a good diet is important, of course, with the things she listed. Organic/free-range/grass-fed. When she lists 'broth' she means homemade long simmered broth, not canned or packaged.
Anonymous
(Login tinky_winky_18)
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 11 2007, 1:54 AM
yes, VERY VERY helpful
im going to be making some changes.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 11 2007, 3:36 AM
I'm happy that this might be helpful! It might help other hormonal problems, too.
Whitney
(Login Magickwomun)
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 11 2007, 5:17 AM
I'm not sure how this fits into the equation, but I read on Wikipedia:
"The herb Chrysin blocks the aromatase enzyme which converts testoterone into estrogen..."
So would Chrysin be considered good or bad for NBE, or is that a matter of ones individual hormonal balance?
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 11 2007, 5:24 AM
Based on what I've learned so far, something blocks that enzyme is bad for BE for anyone trying to up estrogen levels (BE needs decent estrogen levels). It's okay to block things that cause testosterone to convert to DHT instead of estrogen for BE, but what you describe, I imagine, would mean that testosterone levels would go up only and and then testosterone couldn't convert to estrogen. For anyone with PCOS, this would be bad. PCOS people have more testosterone than is optimal.
But I'm quite new to all of this, so maybe someone else will understand this better.
Flax with lignands are a problem. Lignands are aromatase inhibitors as well, apparently.
February 9 2007 at 10:49 PM LL (Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hi everyone,
I have a brilliant friend (something that she developed might earn her a Nobel prize one day, according to another Nobel winner).
This is what she has to say about PCOS - advice for anyone who has it. She's experienced many hormonal problems that are similar herself.
...
The book "It's my Ovaries, Stupid" is probably a good place to start. The real
bummer is that most authors and doctors are pretty clueless and have jumped
on the bandwagon that insulin problems cause hormone problems (or they
debate whether it's the chicken or the egg.)
If you look at the way estrogen is made...
Cholesterol --> Progesterone --> Testosterone --> Estrogen
...you see that testosterone is the immediate precursor to estrogen. So,
one obvious "answer" is that there's a problem making estrogen, causing
testosterone to build up on the other side. (Or, there's too little
cholesterol to make hormones in general, or there are problems synthesizing
progesterone* from the ovaries, etc.) Elizabeth Vliet (It's my Ovaries,
Stupid) says that women with PCOS have too little estrogen and too much
testosterone, so my hypothesis seems valid.
(*Note: Don't use progesterone creams. If you don't fix the T-->E problem,
then extra progesterone ends up giving you MORE testosterone.)
So, I've been trying to get down to the process of how estrogen is made, and
one of my observations is that essential fatty acids and fat soluble
vitamins are important, as well as mineral cofactors like calcium.
If I had to make a protocol for anyone with PCOS, my first recommendation
would be the egg yolks.
1.) egg yolks (*not* fortified with omega-3): 2 per day
2.) seafood (get omega-3 from real food, not supplements!): 1-2x per week
3.) mineral rich foods
a. Broths and Dark leafy greens for calcium, magnesium
b. Red meats, shellfish for zinc
c. Sea salt for trace minerals
4.) Low sugar diet in general, regardless of weight
And for some observations: the egg yolks contain a very important EFA,
which is much maligned in the layman's press. If a person is
deficient in this one EFA, then starting on the egg yolk regime may
initially lead to some flu-like aches and pains. The reason is that cell
receptors can be "primed" to suck it up, and then when you suddenly give
them all they want, they get "swamped" with it. This can last for a few
weeks, until cell receptor levels normalize to the new levels of intake.
(The body is very good about regulating stuff like this...) On the other
hand, some people never have a problem. It's just something to look out
for, and not to worry about if it does happen.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
More information
February 10 2007, 3:12 AM
women with PCOS don't ovulate and therefore don't produce progesterone through that route. Progesterone is also made by the adrenal gland, so there is at least enough for making a full
complement of steroids (though maybe not in enough quantity to support
gestation.)
Clearly, there is enough testosterone in women with PCOS, so I don't think
that progesterone deficiency is the cause of the problem.
The EFA that I mention in egg yolks is arachidonic acid. One large egg
supplies approximately 65mg of AA, and for reference, French women eat about
~150mg AA per day. So, that's how I figure that 2 egg yolks per day are
good source of AA, especially if a person doesn't consume vegetable oil or
has trouble synthesizing AA from linoleic acid (due to a less-efficienct
Delta-6-desaturase or other enzyme in the pathway.)
-Laurel
Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 10 2007, 7:50 AM
That was a very interesting read! Thank you for posting it. I really does make a lot of sense.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 10 2007, 8:02 AM
You're welcome, Fennel Fairy.
It's interesting that traditionally in many cultures eggs have been considered to be a very important food for fertility.
Free range eggs are best, of course. Orange yolks are good.
Laurel started to have many PCOS symptoms herself not so long ago. She was also reacting allergically to many different foods. She did an ALCAT test for allergies, and although she reacted to eggs, she knew how important they were so she set about to stop the reactions. She found that by sealing up her system by either taking glutamine for a few days, or a product called SeaCure (fermented fish product), that stopped things from leaking into her system (what allergies are. Foods aren't supposed to leak into our blood like that). To give her self good 'bugs' (bacteria) in her intestines, she took (and still takes) a special probiotic called VSL3
http://www.vsl3.com/VSL3/about.asp
She has tried many probiotics, and this is the one she recommends for this kind of thing because it's potent and contains bacteria that really seem to treat problems thoughroughly, candida included, I think.
Pharmacies can order it. Expensive, but I trust her since she's been through all of this and often charts things on graphs, etc.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 10 2007, 8:06 AM
I forgot to say that after going through all of that, her skin cleared and she has a much healthier hormonal profile. She had quite bad PMS for a while. I mean she had bad PMS for a while BEFORE doing everything!
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 10 2007, 8:19 AM
The glutamine, Sea Cure and probiotics may not be helpful for everyone, but in modern times problems with digestion and allergies have really gone up, so it might be helpful for people (PCOS or no PCOS) to consider that protocol.
Hormonal problems reflect problems with health in some way, so anything that we can do to help our health is great.
But eggs are easy to get, at least, so that's not a difficult thing to try. Having a good diet is important, of course, with the things she listed. Organic/free-range/grass-fed. When she lists 'broth' she means homemade long simmered broth, not canned or packaged.
Anonymous
(Login tinky_winky_18)
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 11 2007, 1:54 AM
yes, VERY VERY helpful
im going to be making some changes.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 11 2007, 3:36 AM
I'm happy that this might be helpful! It might help other hormonal problems, too.
Whitney
(Login Magickwomun)
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 11 2007, 5:17 AM
I'm not sure how this fits into the equation, but I read on Wikipedia:
"The herb Chrysin blocks the aromatase enzyme which converts testoterone into estrogen..."
So would Chrysin be considered good or bad for NBE, or is that a matter of ones individual hormonal balance?
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: My microbiologist friend's advice about PCOS
February 11 2007, 5:24 AM
Based on what I've learned so far, something blocks that enzyme is bad for BE for anyone trying to up estrogen levels (BE needs decent estrogen levels). It's okay to block things that cause testosterone to convert to DHT instead of estrogen for BE, but what you describe, I imagine, would mean that testosterone levels would go up only and and then testosterone couldn't convert to estrogen. For anyone with PCOS, this would be bad. PCOS people have more testosterone than is optimal.
But I'm quite new to all of this, so maybe someone else will understand this better.
Flax with lignands are a problem. Lignands are aromatase inhibitors as well, apparently.