26-02-2016, 19:29
Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008 at 12:31 AM Louise (Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Just came across your post in the info on herbs section about risks of PC (which basically seems to mean cancer), bearing in mind that they are saying that PC causes the body to react homeostatically to raise estrogen levels wouldn't this be good for boob growth? Also they keep saying that 'at the menopause' the hormonal decline is there to protect from cancer but if we're young and not got family history that shouldn't be a problem.
Did you think that article was a reliable source?
I remember you saying that PC would be ignored by the body if we take BCP but I know of at least one person using both and she seems to be doing well. I'm willing to rub it on for a few months and risk wasting the money if nothing happens if that's the main risk to be taken. I don't think I'm estrogen dominant although doing the hormone imbalamce symptom quiz I had about half in every category and nearly all for high androgens, interestingly BCP seems to have stopped my night sweats when you would expect extra estrogen to make it worse, or maybe it's just because it's winter? I don't really get that moody with my period but I get a few cramps - would PC help with that? Have you know of people using it primarily for boobs? I know you said you grew with it.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 3:34 AM
Hi Louise,
As much as I like Progesterone cream and as much as I think it is a great solution for those suffering from estrogen dominance, I do not promote it as an NBE solution.
Progesterone cream should be used for balancing an unbalanced hormone situation. It is far too risky to use in any other way. To add progesterone to a body that already has sufficient amounts of it is to invite disaster. I am not just talking about an increased risk of cancer (there is some risk, and yes it is minimal...but... and yes the article was fairly accurate) I am also talking about creating the very symptoms that progesterone is used to treat.
Too much progesterone is as bad of a thing as too much estrogen. Although it is hard to create a progesterone overload with a single application of a bunch of progesterone, continued use of the cream either above the recommended dosage or by someone who already has enough progesterone could result in overdose.
My discovery and use of progesterone was a God-send to a list of symptoms that I had been suffering from for decades. It was a coincidence that it happened to be a NBE positive thing for me. I did not use it in order to affect NBE - in fact I only began to research NBE after I had such a response to the progesterone cream. I wanted to find out what was happening to me.
If you have many of the estrogen dominance symptoms then progesterone cream might be useful - to get rid of the ED. If you do not have the symptoms, but are experiencing PMS symptoms then I would recommend Vitex.
If you are determined to go ahead with progesterone cream - Please read Dr. John Lee's book first. Maybe it will convince you that this is not the right thing for you. Maybe you will find out your symptoms could be helped with PC. He does state that the benefits of PC are not available to those on BCP since the artificial progestins block the receptors.
Again - progesterone cream is for the treatment of progesterone deficiency - I do not recommend it for just growing boobs. There is too much risk of negatively affecting health for it to be used in this way. (plus it is very likely that it would have little effect in this way to those who were not progesterone deficient)
Take care,
waxingmoon
crissy
(Login shyra08)
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 4:46 AM
waxingmoon, If Progesterone cream is soo bad why are you using it? You just don't want anyone else to grow boobs,you are being very selfish!!!!
Linz
(no login)
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:10 PM
No,She's not like that at all, she's always helpful/supportive
She's just saying you should use it with caution, which most people agree with. It is powerful stuff - you shouldn't use it haphazardly.
xx
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:15 PM
Shyra - have you seen the trouble Waxingmoon goes to in answering all of the posts, how can you call her selfish, shut up and grow up!
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:19 PM
Waxingmoon - Thanks for that, what sort of negative consequences? The main thing that concerns me is hair loss! Or obviously weight gain. I really would like to ask my gynae about all this stuff but sadly I'll probably be too embarassed. Would the symptoms of overload worsen as I increased the dose then reduce as I lowered the dose? Would it be obvious that I was getting a negative reaction? Could medical testing monitor me? I don't mind paying for whatever works and ideally would like to do it responsibly which is why I didn't just double up on my BCPs and hope for the best!
Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:52 PM
Waxingmoon - Apparently you are withholding boob growth from me, would you please forward it on, as I seem to have not gotten any while using pc and would very much appreciate it? ;-) (-;
This month has been really good - I dropped my dosage in half, as the higher amount was making me kinda ditzy, or as my husband kindly put it "our you drunk?" so I don't know what that was about - because I thought I was acting perfectly normal, but apparently I was too mello. Doing better on this dose though, and will stick with it for a while. Am feeling really good though, so we shall see how the end of the month goes.
Sorry Louise for taggin onto your message, just want to drop a note before I forgot and didn't want to start a new thread.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 2:32 PM
Hi Louise,
Here is the list of estrogen dominance symptoms- copied from the book 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause' by Dr. John Lee. As you can see there are quite a few. I include this so you and others can evaluate whether you have a condition that progesterone will treat. In order to consider yourself estrogen dominant you should have 5 or more of these symptoms. You will notice that small boobs does not appear on the symptom list.. lol
Acceleration of the aging process
Allergy symptoms
Auto-immune disorders
Breast cancer
Breast tenderness
Cervical dysplasia
Cold hands and feet as a symptom of thyroid dysfunction
Copper excess
Decreased sex drive
Depression with anxiety or agitation
Dry eyes
Early onset of menstruation
Endometrial cancer
Fat gain -especially around the abdomen, hips and thighs
Fibrocystic breasts
Foggy thinking
Gallbladder disease
Hair loss
Headaches
Hypoglycemia
Increased blood clotting
Infertility
Irregular menstrual cycles
Irritability
Insomnia
Magnesium deficiency
Memory loss
Mood swings
Osteoporosis
PMS
Polycystic ovaries
Premenopausal bone loss
Prostate cancer (obviously this one is about men)
Sluggish metabolism
Thyroid dysfunction mimicking hypothyroidism
Uterine cancer
Uterine fibroids
Water retention, bloatiing
Zinc deficiency
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now here is the list of what too much progesterone can do to you:
Immune effect - at normal levels, progesterone enhances immune function, but above normal levels it will depress immune function. (this has been studied in transplants to reduce organ rejection)
Brain effect - in the brain progesterone reduces brain cell excitability -which in normal levels will aid in concentration. At higher than normal levels progesterone has been used as an anticonvulsant. If levels are higher than normal for greater than 6 months times there will be a lethargic effect and possible depression.
Uterine effect - reduction in growth of endometrial lining of uterus (one way to treat endometriosis). At high levels it will stop menstruation. At high levels there will be a suppression of ovulation.
Gastric effect - at higher than normal levels there can be abdominal bloating and discomfort. This is thought to be attributed to a suppressive effect on the digestive system. (Beth - check out Dr David Zava - he did some studies on the digestive effects of excess progesterone)
Endocrine effect - Higher than normal levels of progesterone have been linked to excess cortisol which will cause increased appetite and weight gain around the abdomen.
This may not be as impressive of a list, but that first one should cause anyone to take pause. Depressing your immune function is bad news. And you could get every one of the overload symptoms and have not achieved any increase in breast size. Remember progesterone cream is a potent hormone. It should be used for the right reason and used with caution.
Henri, I think you were experiencing a little bit of overload since it was making you too mellow.
Louise - have I recommended the book by Dr Lee??? ...lol. I think you should check it out. You might benefit from PC use, but do a little more research first. Better safe than sorry.
Crissy/shyra - yeah, I bought up all the progesterone cream they make, so the only way you can get it is through me... and as you have already pointed out - I'm not sharing!!! lol
waxingmoon (just selfishly keeping PC to myself... lol)
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 2:40 PM
I probably ahve about 8-9 of those when I'm off the pill and a few of them anyway but the kind of vague ones, I was also suspect for endometriosis but never really followed it up. Not sure about early onset of menstruation, I just turned 11 when I started regularly but I think I had a little spotting when I was about 9 but didn't understand what it was. My maternal grandmother (who I'm very similar to in every way) also started age 11, my mum didn't start until she was 15 so I was young in that sense, is the average about 12-13?
March 13 2008 at 12:31 AM Louise (Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Just came across your post in the info on herbs section about risks of PC (which basically seems to mean cancer), bearing in mind that they are saying that PC causes the body to react homeostatically to raise estrogen levels wouldn't this be good for boob growth? Also they keep saying that 'at the menopause' the hormonal decline is there to protect from cancer but if we're young and not got family history that shouldn't be a problem.
Did you think that article was a reliable source?
I remember you saying that PC would be ignored by the body if we take BCP but I know of at least one person using both and she seems to be doing well. I'm willing to rub it on for a few months and risk wasting the money if nothing happens if that's the main risk to be taken. I don't think I'm estrogen dominant although doing the hormone imbalamce symptom quiz I had about half in every category and nearly all for high androgens, interestingly BCP seems to have stopped my night sweats when you would expect extra estrogen to make it worse, or maybe it's just because it's winter? I don't really get that moody with my period but I get a few cramps - would PC help with that? Have you know of people using it primarily for boobs? I know you said you grew with it.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 3:34 AM
Hi Louise,
As much as I like Progesterone cream and as much as I think it is a great solution for those suffering from estrogen dominance, I do not promote it as an NBE solution.
Progesterone cream should be used for balancing an unbalanced hormone situation. It is far too risky to use in any other way. To add progesterone to a body that already has sufficient amounts of it is to invite disaster. I am not just talking about an increased risk of cancer (there is some risk, and yes it is minimal...but... and yes the article was fairly accurate) I am also talking about creating the very symptoms that progesterone is used to treat.
Too much progesterone is as bad of a thing as too much estrogen. Although it is hard to create a progesterone overload with a single application of a bunch of progesterone, continued use of the cream either above the recommended dosage or by someone who already has enough progesterone could result in overdose.
My discovery and use of progesterone was a God-send to a list of symptoms that I had been suffering from for decades. It was a coincidence that it happened to be a NBE positive thing for me. I did not use it in order to affect NBE - in fact I only began to research NBE after I had such a response to the progesterone cream. I wanted to find out what was happening to me.
If you have many of the estrogen dominance symptoms then progesterone cream might be useful - to get rid of the ED. If you do not have the symptoms, but are experiencing PMS symptoms then I would recommend Vitex.
If you are determined to go ahead with progesterone cream - Please read Dr. John Lee's book first. Maybe it will convince you that this is not the right thing for you. Maybe you will find out your symptoms could be helped with PC. He does state that the benefits of PC are not available to those on BCP since the artificial progestins block the receptors.
Again - progesterone cream is for the treatment of progesterone deficiency - I do not recommend it for just growing boobs. There is too much risk of negatively affecting health for it to be used in this way. (plus it is very likely that it would have little effect in this way to those who were not progesterone deficient)
Take care,
waxingmoon
crissy
(Login shyra08)
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 4:46 AM
waxingmoon, If Progesterone cream is soo bad why are you using it? You just don't want anyone else to grow boobs,you are being very selfish!!!!
Linz
(no login)
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:10 PM
No,She's not like that at all, she's always helpful/supportive
She's just saying you should use it with caution, which most people agree with. It is powerful stuff - you shouldn't use it haphazardly.
xx
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:15 PM
Shyra - have you seen the trouble Waxingmoon goes to in answering all of the posts, how can you call her selfish, shut up and grow up!
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:19 PM
Waxingmoon - Thanks for that, what sort of negative consequences? The main thing that concerns me is hair loss! Or obviously weight gain. I really would like to ask my gynae about all this stuff but sadly I'll probably be too embarassed. Would the symptoms of overload worsen as I increased the dose then reduce as I lowered the dose? Would it be obvious that I was getting a negative reaction? Could medical testing monitor me? I don't mind paying for whatever works and ideally would like to do it responsibly which is why I didn't just double up on my BCPs and hope for the best!
Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:52 PM
Waxingmoon - Apparently you are withholding boob growth from me, would you please forward it on, as I seem to have not gotten any while using pc and would very much appreciate it? ;-) (-;
This month has been really good - I dropped my dosage in half, as the higher amount was making me kinda ditzy, or as my husband kindly put it "our you drunk?" so I don't know what that was about - because I thought I was acting perfectly normal, but apparently I was too mello. Doing better on this dose though, and will stick with it for a while. Am feeling really good though, so we shall see how the end of the month goes.
Sorry Louise for taggin onto your message, just want to drop a note before I forgot and didn't want to start a new thread.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 2:32 PM
Hi Louise,
Here is the list of estrogen dominance symptoms- copied from the book 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause' by Dr. John Lee. As you can see there are quite a few. I include this so you and others can evaluate whether you have a condition that progesterone will treat. In order to consider yourself estrogen dominant you should have 5 or more of these symptoms. You will notice that small boobs does not appear on the symptom list.. lol
Acceleration of the aging process
Allergy symptoms
Auto-immune disorders
Breast cancer
Breast tenderness
Cervical dysplasia
Cold hands and feet as a symptom of thyroid dysfunction
Copper excess
Decreased sex drive
Depression with anxiety or agitation
Dry eyes
Early onset of menstruation
Endometrial cancer
Fat gain -especially around the abdomen, hips and thighs
Fibrocystic breasts
Foggy thinking
Gallbladder disease
Hair loss
Headaches
Hypoglycemia
Increased blood clotting
Infertility
Irregular menstrual cycles
Irritability
Insomnia
Magnesium deficiency
Memory loss
Mood swings
Osteoporosis
PMS
Polycystic ovaries
Premenopausal bone loss
Prostate cancer (obviously this one is about men)
Sluggish metabolism
Thyroid dysfunction mimicking hypothyroidism
Uterine cancer
Uterine fibroids
Water retention, bloatiing
Zinc deficiency
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now here is the list of what too much progesterone can do to you:
Immune effect - at normal levels, progesterone enhances immune function, but above normal levels it will depress immune function. (this has been studied in transplants to reduce organ rejection)
Brain effect - in the brain progesterone reduces brain cell excitability -which in normal levels will aid in concentration. At higher than normal levels progesterone has been used as an anticonvulsant. If levels are higher than normal for greater than 6 months times there will be a lethargic effect and possible depression.
Uterine effect - reduction in growth of endometrial lining of uterus (one way to treat endometriosis). At high levels it will stop menstruation. At high levels there will be a suppression of ovulation.
Gastric effect - at higher than normal levels there can be abdominal bloating and discomfort. This is thought to be attributed to a suppressive effect on the digestive system. (Beth - check out Dr David Zava - he did some studies on the digestive effects of excess progesterone)
Endocrine effect - Higher than normal levels of progesterone have been linked to excess cortisol which will cause increased appetite and weight gain around the abdomen.
This may not be as impressive of a list, but that first one should cause anyone to take pause. Depressing your immune function is bad news. And you could get every one of the overload symptoms and have not achieved any increase in breast size. Remember progesterone cream is a potent hormone. It should be used for the right reason and used with caution.
Henri, I think you were experiencing a little bit of overload since it was making you too mellow.
Louise - have I recommended the book by Dr Lee??? ...lol. I think you should check it out. You might benefit from PC use, but do a little more research first. Better safe than sorry.
Crissy/shyra - yeah, I bought up all the progesterone cream they make, so the only way you can get it is through me... and as you have already pointed out - I'm not sharing!!! lol
waxingmoon (just selfishly keeping PC to myself... lol)
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 2:40 PM
I probably ahve about 8-9 of those when I'm off the pill and a few of them anyway but the kind of vague ones, I was also suspect for endometriosis but never really followed it up. Not sure about early onset of menstruation, I just turned 11 when I started regularly but I think I had a little spotting when I was about 9 but didn't understand what it was. My maternal grandmother (who I'm very similar to in every way) also started age 11, my mum didn't start until she was 15 so I was young in that sense, is the average about 12-13?