29-02-2016, 00:49
Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007 at 2:49 PM ellie (Login ellie213)
after years of trying every method on here, phytoestrogens, vitex, pueraria murifica etc. and after extensive research i have discovered the following:
there are some very useful pages on this which i found which if anyone is interested i can post i just need to find them again..
1.any phytoestrogens ie. fenugreek, pueraria murifica etc. will not work as all they do is if you have low oestrogen levels enhance them and increased oestrogen causes mainly fat storage on the lower body with sometimes temporary fluid retention on boobs which stops as soon as you stop taking them
if you already have high oestrogen levels they will actually make your boobs shrink as they block the oestrogen receptors
a final point on these is that if they do increase your oestrogen levels you are increasing your risk of breast cancer, not really worth a few months of temporary fluid retention and weight gain all over is it?
not to mention increased oestrogen levels is what gives you all the other side effects like headaches weight gain etc.
2. a lot of the products people use on here are not actually phytoestrogens and have no effect on growth, such as saw palmetto and wild yam
3. some people take wild yam but this is not a phytoestrogen and will not affect oestrogen, also some people take it thinking it will convert to progesterone in the body which it wont, this is a waste of time as is using the cream
4. pm is a complete waste of time and also potentially very dangerous as it is a strong phytoestrogen and if it does increase boobs only does so by causing so much weight gain all over (which it did to me). most of the websites you will see are all propoganda but if you research properly you will see it doesnt work for anyone unless they gain weight all over, so your boobs would naturally get bigger as they are partly composed of fat tissue.
it is dangerous as playing around with your hormone levels enough to cause weight gain has been proven to be a risk factor of breast cancer
5. the only thing which does work is vitex (as this has the effect of lowering oestrogen and bringing up your progesterone levels). this takes a few months to work but you will notice reduced weight on lower body and slight boob growth. but not much.
progesterone is the key as unlike oestrogen which only causes fluid retention and fat gain progesterone causes growth of glandular tissue which is more permanent (this is why our progesterone levels surge when we are pregnant as we need more glandular tissue for breast feeding, hence why our boobs get so much bigger when we are pregnant).
pregnancy is the best evidence of this, notice our oestrogen levels do not really change, hence progesterone is the key.
progesterone is also non toxic unlike adding oestrogen to our bodies and will only cause positive side effects as long as you follow the recommended dosage and do not overdose.
so to conclude in addition to vitex if you want to further enhance growth try using a natural progesterone cream following the exact instructions.
apart from that everything else is a waste of time.
i hope this is helpful to some people.
hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 5:31 PM
I don't quite think its fair to make such assumptions and suggest that these herbs are a "waste of time" when it has clearly worked for some people (in fact quite alot of girls on the board). For instance, Eve never took vitex and she grew beautifully...
However, I do find the information you posted to be interesting. Good luck
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 6:02 PM
Uh, some of these claims are really wrong and actually the opposite of what you can read on this forum. Firstly SP does have a lot to do with growth as it blocks androgens. Secondly, you have no way of knowing whether or not phytoestrogens increase the risk of cancer, cause the researches show inconclusive and even contradicting resuls, and the theory actually speaks in favor of them protecting. Seriously, you're making claims based only on your personal assumptions. And huh, vitex has worked for NBE in relatively small percent of cases. Moreover, it's inaccurate to speak about what 'works' in the fist place, cause it's well known that everyone is different and completely specific in what works for them.
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Dec 6, 2007 6:03 PM
hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 6:12 PM
That is so true Moon... I think your post would have been much more accepted ellie if you had stated that this is your personal experience with the herbs and NBE methods instead of making it appear as though these are certain facts for everyone to follow. good luck
No Name Sheep
(Login litldroopyboobs)
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 6:52 PM
Well I am new to this researching game here. I am an intelligent resouceful person but it is so easy to be fooled and have false hope. We are all trying to get bigger boobs here!!! I aplaud all the women and their determination and dedication thus far! The only thing I can add which I got from a lisenced lactation consultant whom I went to for boobie advice was that adding estrogen to your body may be harmful as it can increase your chances of cancer...and the long term effect of herbal use (although they may be natural) isn't known. I am not trying to rain on anyones parade as I too am looking for the magic potion to increase my boobs, bring them back and lift them up!!!!
Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 9:03 PM
A word on the supposed cancer risk. The higher the average intake of phytoestogens in a country the lower the incidence of breast cancer. Japan has the very highest intake of phytoestrogens and the lowest rate of breast cancer in the world. Western countries with very little phytoestrogens in their diet actually have the highest rate of breast cancer. On this basis it is argued that increasing your intake of phytoestrogens will SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE your risk of breast cancer.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 9:53 PM
Most phytoestrogens are not as potent as our own hormonal estrogen. There are other estrogens out there coming from pesticides, solvents and plastics that ARE more potent than our own hormonal estrogen.
The cancer risk with estrogen has always been linked to unopposed estrogen (in the case of birth control pills) and the total lifetime exposure to estrogens that are as potent or more potent than our own hormonal estrogen.
Phytoestrogens are thought to block estrogen receptors from more potent estrogen - but you do have to choose the lower potency ones. For example Flax seed is a very low dose phytoestrogen (called a lignan) and it will lower a woman's total estrogen - thus it can be very helpful in reducing cancer risk and helping to control estrogen dominance.
Red Clover and Licorice are more potent than hormonal estrogen, so a woman taking these in large amounts would possibly be increasing her total estrogen.
The whole issue of phytoestrogens is very complex. In my thread "My Search for a Low Dose Phytoestrogen" I shared some of my findings and others have contributed some useful information there as well.
waxingmoon
No Name Sheep
(Login ellie213)
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 10:21 PM
the stuff i wrote is what i have discovered from research ie. medical research, and is not based on my personal opinion. i have only put the information up to try and help people and stop people wasting their time and money. but i have tried all of the above methods so i can see from my own experiences that what i am saying is on the whole right.
i am not saying some people dont grow with phytoestrogens, i did myself, but this went as soon as i stopped taking them, as it was only fluid. the pm caused me to gain weight so of course they are going to grow but this is just fat which goes as soon as you lose the weight again. and i know from reading this forum that i am not the only person this has happened to.
as far as the cancer thing goes i am only repeating what i have discovered from my reading, that any breast growth which is a result of extra hormones in your body causes an increased risk of breast cancer. phytoestrogens are beneficial overall for health but if you are taking high enough doses to cause your boobs to grow then this is where there is a risk.
at the end of the day even though everyones body is different, the fact is oestrogen promotes fat storage and fluid retention, this is a function of this hormone no matter who you are so there is no point saying everyones body is different, oestrogen still works the same way. the same goes for progesterone.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 10:37 PM
None of these things come close to the amount of hormones you get from the pill or HRT so the cancer risk is minute. They also won't cause a new tumour to arise but will only feed an existing tumour that you are unaware of. I think herbs will either work well (probably a minority of cases), work slightly (fairly common) or do nothing (also common). There are people who have gained boobs without overall weight gain and who have stopped herbs for months - years and retained growth so it is possible. There are other people who've had weight gain, bloating, acne etc and 1 girl who took herbs for 'health' when she already had big boobs and they shrank because she'd drastically lowered her estrogen but I don't think many of us are in that position.
Fair enough report that you've had no results but you can't say it's impossible for everyone.
December 6 2007 at 2:49 PM ellie (Login ellie213)
after years of trying every method on here, phytoestrogens, vitex, pueraria murifica etc. and after extensive research i have discovered the following:
there are some very useful pages on this which i found which if anyone is interested i can post i just need to find them again..
1.any phytoestrogens ie. fenugreek, pueraria murifica etc. will not work as all they do is if you have low oestrogen levels enhance them and increased oestrogen causes mainly fat storage on the lower body with sometimes temporary fluid retention on boobs which stops as soon as you stop taking them
if you already have high oestrogen levels they will actually make your boobs shrink as they block the oestrogen receptors
a final point on these is that if they do increase your oestrogen levels you are increasing your risk of breast cancer, not really worth a few months of temporary fluid retention and weight gain all over is it?
not to mention increased oestrogen levels is what gives you all the other side effects like headaches weight gain etc.
2. a lot of the products people use on here are not actually phytoestrogens and have no effect on growth, such as saw palmetto and wild yam
3. some people take wild yam but this is not a phytoestrogen and will not affect oestrogen, also some people take it thinking it will convert to progesterone in the body which it wont, this is a waste of time as is using the cream
4. pm is a complete waste of time and also potentially very dangerous as it is a strong phytoestrogen and if it does increase boobs only does so by causing so much weight gain all over (which it did to me). most of the websites you will see are all propoganda but if you research properly you will see it doesnt work for anyone unless they gain weight all over, so your boobs would naturally get bigger as they are partly composed of fat tissue.
it is dangerous as playing around with your hormone levels enough to cause weight gain has been proven to be a risk factor of breast cancer
5. the only thing which does work is vitex (as this has the effect of lowering oestrogen and bringing up your progesterone levels). this takes a few months to work but you will notice reduced weight on lower body and slight boob growth. but not much.
progesterone is the key as unlike oestrogen which only causes fluid retention and fat gain progesterone causes growth of glandular tissue which is more permanent (this is why our progesterone levels surge when we are pregnant as we need more glandular tissue for breast feeding, hence why our boobs get so much bigger when we are pregnant).
pregnancy is the best evidence of this, notice our oestrogen levels do not really change, hence progesterone is the key.
progesterone is also non toxic unlike adding oestrogen to our bodies and will only cause positive side effects as long as you follow the recommended dosage and do not overdose.
so to conclude in addition to vitex if you want to further enhance growth try using a natural progesterone cream following the exact instructions.
apart from that everything else is a waste of time.
i hope this is helpful to some people.
hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 5:31 PM
I don't quite think its fair to make such assumptions and suggest that these herbs are a "waste of time" when it has clearly worked for some people (in fact quite alot of girls on the board). For instance, Eve never took vitex and she grew beautifully...
However, I do find the information you posted to be interesting. Good luck
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 6:02 PM
Uh, some of these claims are really wrong and actually the opposite of what you can read on this forum. Firstly SP does have a lot to do with growth as it blocks androgens. Secondly, you have no way of knowing whether or not phytoestrogens increase the risk of cancer, cause the researches show inconclusive and even contradicting resuls, and the theory actually speaks in favor of them protecting. Seriously, you're making claims based only on your personal assumptions. And huh, vitex has worked for NBE in relatively small percent of cases. Moreover, it's inaccurate to speak about what 'works' in the fist place, cause it's well known that everyone is different and completely specific in what works for them.
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Dec 6, 2007 6:03 PM
hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 6:12 PM
That is so true Moon... I think your post would have been much more accepted ellie if you had stated that this is your personal experience with the herbs and NBE methods instead of making it appear as though these are certain facts for everyone to follow. good luck
No Name Sheep
(Login litldroopyboobs)
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 6:52 PM
Well I am new to this researching game here. I am an intelligent resouceful person but it is so easy to be fooled and have false hope. We are all trying to get bigger boobs here!!! I aplaud all the women and their determination and dedication thus far! The only thing I can add which I got from a lisenced lactation consultant whom I went to for boobie advice was that adding estrogen to your body may be harmful as it can increase your chances of cancer...and the long term effect of herbal use (although they may be natural) isn't known. I am not trying to rain on anyones parade as I too am looking for the magic potion to increase my boobs, bring them back and lift them up!!!!
Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 9:03 PM
A word on the supposed cancer risk. The higher the average intake of phytoestogens in a country the lower the incidence of breast cancer. Japan has the very highest intake of phytoestrogens and the lowest rate of breast cancer in the world. Western countries with very little phytoestrogens in their diet actually have the highest rate of breast cancer. On this basis it is argued that increasing your intake of phytoestrogens will SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE your risk of breast cancer.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 9:53 PM
Most phytoestrogens are not as potent as our own hormonal estrogen. There are other estrogens out there coming from pesticides, solvents and plastics that ARE more potent than our own hormonal estrogen.
The cancer risk with estrogen has always been linked to unopposed estrogen (in the case of birth control pills) and the total lifetime exposure to estrogens that are as potent or more potent than our own hormonal estrogen.
Phytoestrogens are thought to block estrogen receptors from more potent estrogen - but you do have to choose the lower potency ones. For example Flax seed is a very low dose phytoestrogen (called a lignan) and it will lower a woman's total estrogen - thus it can be very helpful in reducing cancer risk and helping to control estrogen dominance.
Red Clover and Licorice are more potent than hormonal estrogen, so a woman taking these in large amounts would possibly be increasing her total estrogen.
The whole issue of phytoestrogens is very complex. In my thread "My Search for a Low Dose Phytoestrogen" I shared some of my findings and others have contributed some useful information there as well.
waxingmoon
No Name Sheep
(Login ellie213)
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 10:21 PM
the stuff i wrote is what i have discovered from research ie. medical research, and is not based on my personal opinion. i have only put the information up to try and help people and stop people wasting their time and money. but i have tried all of the above methods so i can see from my own experiences that what i am saying is on the whole right.
i am not saying some people dont grow with phytoestrogens, i did myself, but this went as soon as i stopped taking them, as it was only fluid. the pm caused me to gain weight so of course they are going to grow but this is just fat which goes as soon as you lose the weight again. and i know from reading this forum that i am not the only person this has happened to.
as far as the cancer thing goes i am only repeating what i have discovered from my reading, that any breast growth which is a result of extra hormones in your body causes an increased risk of breast cancer. phytoestrogens are beneficial overall for health but if you are taking high enough doses to cause your boobs to grow then this is where there is a risk.
at the end of the day even though everyones body is different, the fact is oestrogen promotes fat storage and fluid retention, this is a function of this hormone no matter who you are so there is no point saying everyones body is different, oestrogen still works the same way. the same goes for progesterone.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 10:37 PM
None of these things come close to the amount of hormones you get from the pill or HRT so the cancer risk is minute. They also won't cause a new tumour to arise but will only feed an existing tumour that you are unaware of. I think herbs will either work well (probably a minority of cases), work slightly (fairly common) or do nothing (also common). There are people who have gained boobs without overall weight gain and who have stopped herbs for months - years and retained growth so it is possible. There are other people who've had weight gain, bloating, acne etc and 1 girl who took herbs for 'health' when she already had big boobs and they shrank because she'd drastically lowered her estrogen but I don't think many of us are in that position.
Fair enough report that you've had no results but you can't say it's impossible for everyone.