07-03-2016, 00:30
Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 23 2008 at 2:30 AM lisab (Login lisbee)
If you recall, I started with progesterone cream this month. Everything went well. Breasts swelled and deflated, of course, but AF was lighter than usual, which was VERY nice.
Anyway, I wanted to share with you an email I got in response to one I sent weeks ago. It is from the company from which I bought the saliva test. I had a question and he finally responded. He offered advice on how to correct estrogen dominance in addition to the progesterone cream. I thought his answer was interesting...
"Anyway, your brief history provides important insight. It is great that your cycle has increased to 23-24 days, I would love to continue to see that lengthen to 28-30 days. I do believe the results are accurate and probably explain the very short cycle. So, yes your estrogen levels are going up to quickly and the progesterone levels appear to be lagging.
Here are some very specific recommendations:
The most important dietary recommendations are to eat a high fiber diet rich in phytoestrogens, while avoiding saturated fat, sugar, and caffeine. These simple changes can dramatically reduce circulating estrogen levels. One study looked at what happened when women switched from the standard American diet (40 percent of calories from fat, only 12 grams of fiber daily) to healthier diet (25 percent of calories from fat, 40 grams of fiber). Results showed a thirty-six percent reduction in blood estrogen levels within eight to ten weeks.
Phytoestrogens or plant estrogens are able to bind to the same cell receptors as the estrogen your body produces. Thats a good thing, because when phytoestrogens occupy the parking places, estrogen cant produce effects on cells. By competing with estrogen, phytoestrogen causes a drop in estrogen effects, and are thus sometimes called antiestrogens. Great sources of phytoestrogens include soy and soy foods, ground flaxseeds, and nuts and seeds. In particular, I recommend eating 1-2 tablespoons of ground flaxseeds daily (personally, I like FortiFlax from Barleans).
Here are the key supplement recommendations that I give using Natural Factors products:
Build a strong foundation. There are three products that I think are critical in supporting good health:
MultiStart for Women - a high-potency multiple vitamin and mineral formula designed specifically for women. Take 3 tablets twice daily.
Enriching Greens - a great tasting greens drink containing highly concentrated greens like chlorella, spirulina, wheat grass juice, barley grass juice, etc., and herbal extracts. Take one serving (one tablespoon) in 8 ounces of water daily.
RxOmega-3 Factors A true pharmaceutical grade fish oil supplement. Take two capsules daily.
EstroSense - a specialty formula designed to reduce toxic effects of estrogen and xenoestrogens. Take 2 capsules twice daily. Estrosense provides a number of compounds that have been shown to be beneficial in helping to detoxify and eliminate excess estrogens including:
· Indole-3-carbinol (I3C), di-indoylmethane (DIM), and sulfurophane - anti-cancer phytonutrients found in cruciferous vegetables. Research has shown that these compounds helps to breakdown cancer-causing estrogens to non-toxic forms.
· Calcium D-glucarate prevents the reabsorption of excreted estrogens.
· Green tea polyphenols block the negative effects of estrogen and have been shown to be protective against estrogen-related cancers.
I think you will know if we are on the right track if after 3 months you have increased the length of your cycle to 28 days. If not, then I would have some additional recommendations based upon more info from you."
Hmmm...I thought we were trying to limit our intake of phytoestrogens? I then looked up phytoestrogens in Dr. Lee's perimenopause book. In the last section of "How your nutrition affects your hormone balance" he talks about the importance of phytoestrogens. He doesn't recommend a diet "rich" in them, but Dr. Lee stresses their important role in blocking the effects of excess estrogen.
Thoughts? Should I be more willing in taking phytoestrogens for NBE? I thought I needed to stay away from them. Am I not understanding correctly?
Thanks for your insight!
Lisa
lisab
(Login lisbee)
One more thing...
August 23 2008, 2:36 AM
I do remember you saying to eat flaxseeds every day. I guess this is why. But do you think we should have a "diet rich in phytoestrogens"?
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 26 2008, 10:07 PM
Hi Lisa,
As I understand it, phytoestrogens can either raise or lower your total body estrogen. It depends on the 'potency' of the phytoestrogen and how much you eat as to whether it raises or lowers estrogen in the body.
Think of all estrogen as being a key to a car and our estrogen receptors as being a lock on the door. You can have a 'key' that will fit the lock, but not unlock the door. You can have a key that will unlock the door but not get into the glove box. You can also have a key that will unlock everything. That is the world of phytoestrogens. They fit the 'lock' but they do different things.
For example, crushed flaxseed is a phytoestrogen - called a lignan. It is a very low potency phytoestrogen. This would be a key that mostly just sits in the lock and keeps other keys from accessing the door. If you use crushed flaxseed you can lower your total body estrogen.
Now, in an example using fennel - a generally low potency phytoestrogen, it can have either a raising or lowering effect. It is a key that can turn the lock and start the engine, but it is lower in potency than the body's own estrogen. If a woman takes a small amount of fennel it will fill up her empty estrogen receptors. This will give her more estrogen than she would have had if she had not taken the fennel, so her total body estrogen rises. But, if the woman takes a lot of fennel and it not only fills her empty receptors, but also blocks her body's natural estrogen from the receptor - it will in this scenario lower her total body estrogen (because fennel is lower in potency than natural estrogen).
However, let's take red clover. This phytoestrogen is even more potent than our body's own estrogen. It turns the lock, starts the engine, opens the glove box and honks the horn... lol. Taking either small or large amounts of red clover will raise the total body estrogen.
So - in a nutshell - it is true that SOME phytoestrogens can lower total body estrogen if you eat enough of them and they are lower in potency to the body's natural estrogen. But watch out for the more potent phytoestrogens like soy, red clover, licorice and PM.
If you were wanting to make sure you lowered total body estrogen the best phytoestrogen to use would be crushed flaxseed.
Hope this helps,
waxingmoon
sunflower
(Login ssunflower)
Re: Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 27 2008, 2:00 PM
That was some great information. There's alot to learn.
Where would you get crushed flax seed?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 27 2008, 2:08 PM
The weird thing is that you would then expect RC to be a very sucessfull herb in NBE, especially for estrogen deficiency, but it doesn't seem to be any more than all other frequently mentioned estrogenic herbs. I'm estrogen deficient and I used RC but it didn't seem to have a very significent effect. And I actually got more growing pains when I was taking flaxseed oil (tho that was oil and not seed).
Roseability86
(Login roseability86)
Re: Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 27 2008, 2:40 PM
So, OP are you saying that if we have excess estrogen we would have a shorter cycle? My cycle lasts about 40 days :-S Maybe I'm not estro-dom.
Kerrie
(Login K Kerrie)
Re: Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 27 2008, 9:31 PM
I think it's often overlooked that phytoestrogens can LOWER estrogenic activity, so this thread is a useful reminder of it.
August 23 2008 at 2:30 AM lisab (Login lisbee)
If you recall, I started with progesterone cream this month. Everything went well. Breasts swelled and deflated, of course, but AF was lighter than usual, which was VERY nice.
Anyway, I wanted to share with you an email I got in response to one I sent weeks ago. It is from the company from which I bought the saliva test. I had a question and he finally responded. He offered advice on how to correct estrogen dominance in addition to the progesterone cream. I thought his answer was interesting...
"Anyway, your brief history provides important insight. It is great that your cycle has increased to 23-24 days, I would love to continue to see that lengthen to 28-30 days. I do believe the results are accurate and probably explain the very short cycle. So, yes your estrogen levels are going up to quickly and the progesterone levels appear to be lagging.
Here are some very specific recommendations:
The most important dietary recommendations are to eat a high fiber diet rich in phytoestrogens, while avoiding saturated fat, sugar, and caffeine. These simple changes can dramatically reduce circulating estrogen levels. One study looked at what happened when women switched from the standard American diet (40 percent of calories from fat, only 12 grams of fiber daily) to healthier diet (25 percent of calories from fat, 40 grams of fiber). Results showed a thirty-six percent reduction in blood estrogen levels within eight to ten weeks.
Phytoestrogens or plant estrogens are able to bind to the same cell receptors as the estrogen your body produces. Thats a good thing, because when phytoestrogens occupy the parking places, estrogen cant produce effects on cells. By competing with estrogen, phytoestrogen causes a drop in estrogen effects, and are thus sometimes called antiestrogens. Great sources of phytoestrogens include soy and soy foods, ground flaxseeds, and nuts and seeds. In particular, I recommend eating 1-2 tablespoons of ground flaxseeds daily (personally, I like FortiFlax from Barleans).
Here are the key supplement recommendations that I give using Natural Factors products:
Build a strong foundation. There are three products that I think are critical in supporting good health:
MultiStart for Women - a high-potency multiple vitamin and mineral formula designed specifically for women. Take 3 tablets twice daily.
Enriching Greens - a great tasting greens drink containing highly concentrated greens like chlorella, spirulina, wheat grass juice, barley grass juice, etc., and herbal extracts. Take one serving (one tablespoon) in 8 ounces of water daily.
RxOmega-3 Factors A true pharmaceutical grade fish oil supplement. Take two capsules daily.
EstroSense - a specialty formula designed to reduce toxic effects of estrogen and xenoestrogens. Take 2 capsules twice daily. Estrosense provides a number of compounds that have been shown to be beneficial in helping to detoxify and eliminate excess estrogens including:
· Indole-3-carbinol (I3C), di-indoylmethane (DIM), and sulfurophane - anti-cancer phytonutrients found in cruciferous vegetables. Research has shown that these compounds helps to breakdown cancer-causing estrogens to non-toxic forms.
· Calcium D-glucarate prevents the reabsorption of excreted estrogens.
· Green tea polyphenols block the negative effects of estrogen and have been shown to be protective against estrogen-related cancers.
I think you will know if we are on the right track if after 3 months you have increased the length of your cycle to 28 days. If not, then I would have some additional recommendations based upon more info from you."
Hmmm...I thought we were trying to limit our intake of phytoestrogens? I then looked up phytoestrogens in Dr. Lee's perimenopause book. In the last section of "How your nutrition affects your hormone balance" he talks about the importance of phytoestrogens. He doesn't recommend a diet "rich" in them, but Dr. Lee stresses their important role in blocking the effects of excess estrogen.
Thoughts? Should I be more willing in taking phytoestrogens for NBE? I thought I needed to stay away from them. Am I not understanding correctly?
Thanks for your insight!
Lisa
lisab
(Login lisbee)
One more thing...
August 23 2008, 2:36 AM
I do remember you saying to eat flaxseeds every day. I guess this is why. But do you think we should have a "diet rich in phytoestrogens"?
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 26 2008, 10:07 PM
Hi Lisa,
As I understand it, phytoestrogens can either raise or lower your total body estrogen. It depends on the 'potency' of the phytoestrogen and how much you eat as to whether it raises or lowers estrogen in the body.
Think of all estrogen as being a key to a car and our estrogen receptors as being a lock on the door. You can have a 'key' that will fit the lock, but not unlock the door. You can have a key that will unlock the door but not get into the glove box. You can also have a key that will unlock everything. That is the world of phytoestrogens. They fit the 'lock' but they do different things.
For example, crushed flaxseed is a phytoestrogen - called a lignan. It is a very low potency phytoestrogen. This would be a key that mostly just sits in the lock and keeps other keys from accessing the door. If you use crushed flaxseed you can lower your total body estrogen.
Now, in an example using fennel - a generally low potency phytoestrogen, it can have either a raising or lowering effect. It is a key that can turn the lock and start the engine, but it is lower in potency than the body's own estrogen. If a woman takes a small amount of fennel it will fill up her empty estrogen receptors. This will give her more estrogen than she would have had if she had not taken the fennel, so her total body estrogen rises. But, if the woman takes a lot of fennel and it not only fills her empty receptors, but also blocks her body's natural estrogen from the receptor - it will in this scenario lower her total body estrogen (because fennel is lower in potency than natural estrogen).
However, let's take red clover. This phytoestrogen is even more potent than our body's own estrogen. It turns the lock, starts the engine, opens the glove box and honks the horn... lol. Taking either small or large amounts of red clover will raise the total body estrogen.
So - in a nutshell - it is true that SOME phytoestrogens can lower total body estrogen if you eat enough of them and they are lower in potency to the body's natural estrogen. But watch out for the more potent phytoestrogens like soy, red clover, licorice and PM.
If you were wanting to make sure you lowered total body estrogen the best phytoestrogen to use would be crushed flaxseed.
Hope this helps,
waxingmoon
sunflower
(Login ssunflower)
Re: Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 27 2008, 2:00 PM
That was some great information. There's alot to learn.
Where would you get crushed flax seed?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 27 2008, 2:08 PM
The weird thing is that you would then expect RC to be a very sucessfull herb in NBE, especially for estrogen deficiency, but it doesn't seem to be any more than all other frequently mentioned estrogenic herbs. I'm estrogen deficient and I used RC but it didn't seem to have a very significent effect. And I actually got more growing pains when I was taking flaxseed oil (tho that was oil and not seed).
Roseability86
(Login roseability86)
Re: Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 27 2008, 2:40 PM
So, OP are you saying that if we have excess estrogen we would have a shorter cycle? My cycle lasts about 40 days :-S Maybe I'm not estro-dom.
Kerrie
(Login K Kerrie)
Re: Waxingmoon, hmmm...
August 27 2008, 9:31 PM
I think it's often overlooked that phytoestrogens can LOWER estrogenic activity, so this thread is a useful reminder of it.