25-01-2022, 02:08
Hello Waxingmoon,
Thanks for your input. I play tennis because it's a lot of fun as a group of close friends do it regular, even though I am still a beginner and no good at it yet. It's hard to learn new things when one is under a lot of stress and is older. I will just try to be gentle on my knees. Does wearing knee guards help? I will continue to do treadmill as much as I can. I will probably try to 3 times a week, 30 minutes each. Then followed by some push-ups (I hate push-ups maybe because my upper body is not strong), free weights, crunches (hoping to take care of flab on my tummy). Any good suggestions to help flatten the tummy? Exercise facilities are few and far in between. Gym membership is extraordinarily expensive and they are not afraid there aren't enough people joining. Fortunately there is a small gym with some exercise equipment in the apartment complex I live here in Singapore. Even though it's small I am thankful to have it. I have lived here for three years, and have just recently started taking advantage of it. I did work out quite regularly and more in shape when I was back in Colorado. I remember a trainer saying that doing plank is a very efficient time-saving core strength training method. People call it different names, but it's basically hold your body tummy down, supported by toes and elbows only and tuck in all the muscles and hold it for as long as possible. Do you think it's good for toning up muscles? How does it affect NBE? Are there any other efficient strength training methods? I don't have much time on my hands so I always train economize.
Thanks.
Sarah
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Marinora
Unread postDec 18, 2007#52
Three weeks ago I learned about NBE and straight away I began with herbs and massages...my daily routine is 1500 mg fenugreek and a massage with a home-made cream made of olive oil, fennel and fenugreek. I dont know about the results yet, it is too early but maybe I feel my boobs a bit tighter (though it could also be due to my cycle).
Reading your posts has made me wonder a lot about progesterone and hormonal imbalances...I have always thought that my breast problem was due to something like this because all women in my family have very big cups except me! So some months ago I had a hormonal test done and the result showed that prolactine is a bit high, ans so is thyroidal hormone TSH (the doctor said I have a subclinical hypothyroidism but I need no treatment for that). The rest of the hormone levels were normal.
Oh and I forgot to say that I also suffer from PMS and i have some fibrocystic problems in my small breast....
Could I ask for some advice from all your experience???
Thanks :-)
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waxingmoon
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Unread postDec 18, 2007#53
It sounds like you have some of the same symptoms that I have had. My prolactin levels never tested high, but my thyroid stimulating hormone level did test slightly high.
I was not considered a candidate for thyroid replacement hormone by my doctor even though I suffered from many hypothyroid symptoms. I did not get relief from these symptoms until I began using the progesterone cream.
Too much estrogen can cause an increase in thyroid binding proteins that will interfere with the cellular use of thyroid hormone. This is why estrogen dominance symptoms are very much like hypothyroid symptoms.
You might find relief from using progesterone cream as I did. However, it is not a quick fix and will take at least 3 months to be totally effective. It is however a fairly harmless thing to try if you keep the progesterone cream levels reasonable.
I would suggest the book by Dr John Lee - What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause. It will detail how to use the cream and what you can expect from it.
I think if you are patient, you will achieve growth but more importantly you will solve a long standing hormone imbalance problem, which will help you in so many other ways.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
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Marinora
Unread postDec 19, 2007#54
Definitely I think I should try with a progesterone cream instead of the home-made one I prepared with estrogenic herbs. It seems a better way to help hormonal disorders. And I will try to get the book too, hope I can find it here.
My doubt now is about the pills I should take as well to help getting some growth... You tried fenugreek too and didnt work for you...actually I wonder if it may be that good to mix a phytoestrogen like fenugreek together with progesterone, well, I have been in NBE only a few weeks and I dont really know that much about it... do you think I should go on with this herb for a while before dropping it in order to see if it works? Or what other herbs would you suggest instead in my case???
Sorry for asking so many questions ... I am a beginner in NBE :-)
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waxingmoon
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Unread postDec 19, 2007#55
I think in your case, I would start with Vitex. It will take about 3 months for you to feel the effect, but it would probably help to balance your hormones better than the estrogenic herbs.
Fenugreek and I are bitter enemies...lol. It was really not a good idea for me. The fennel did nothing that I could tell. I do not believe that estrogenic herbs are right for me considering my estrogen dominance problems.
Of course I am not saying you and I have the same issues, but if we were similar, it would be more likely you would do better to work in trying to raise your progesterone. That is why I think vitex would be a good start for you since it will promote progesterone production in your body. Increasing your progesterone will wake up any dormant estrogen receptors you have and that will enhance your NBE.
Consider yourself on an odyssey that will last many, many months. It is likely that you will gain at least an inch in a relatively short amount of time, however, on you and me both, an inch does not mean we have entered the magical boob land of fitting into regular bras...lol.
I would also suggest some chest muscle developing exercises. I will detail these soon as soon as I get a little more time.
Sarah, I have not forgotten about you. I am working on a basic chest building post - so look for it soon.
waxingmoon
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Marinora
Unread postDec 22, 2007#56
I still have a few questions for you...
the first is about Vitex agnus-castus though it may sound a bit stupid... do you know the spanish name for it or other names that might give me a clue to translate???? That would help a lot because in my shop dont know about it, and I have also tried to look for a translation in the web but without result. i know I can order it online and get it from overseas but its much easier and cheaper if I can find it here...
Whenever I can find vitex, I was thinking to start with the same amount you were taking in the beginning of your program, together with some borage oil...my doubt is about the progesterone cream, why were you only applying it from the 12th day of your cycle??? Does it cause a lot of hormone disorder to apply it through the whole month?? Its just that I have a rather not periodic period, I mean it may come from the day 22nd to the 27th, so you can imagine its hard to know exactly which day I should start with the cream....
what a long post, sorry for asking so much :-))
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Louise1982
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Unread postDec 26, 2007#57
Also just wondered as a trainer and not a hippy what you think about lymph drainage / massage / dry brushing - is there any science behind any of this?
Hope you had a happy xmas and you're doing well xx
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durga
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Unread postFeb 11, 2008#58
Firstly, congratulations on your growth! It continues to be inspiring to "witness" your dedication.
I am curious about the oils that you use. I'm still doing research (it seems it may never end!) and oils are my latest investigation...so, a few questions:
-Why did you decide to switch from borage to evening primrose oil?
-Also, I noticed you take both cod liver oil and fish oil. What do you understand to be the difference and why do you take both?
-Do you think it's possible to take too much GLA's and omega's? You seem to be taking alot... is more better in the case of GLAs and EFAs?
Thanks for your time!
Durga
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waxingmoon
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Unread postFeb 11, 2008#59
Thank you for your kind words. NBE has been a big turn around for me in many ways -not just the size of my boobs.
I would be glad to talk with you about my oil routine.
First of all, the supplements I take are primarily for health and not NBE - however, I believe they do help in NBE greatly. Yet,I would take them even if they did not help my breast growth.
I switched from borage to evening primrose oil primarily to create variation in my diet. Both borage and EPO provide Omega-6 fatty acids. I believe EPO is slightly higher - but essentially they are the same.
Cod liver oil contains more Vitamin A and D than what is labeled fish oil. It also does not contain as much Omega-3 fatty acids nor as much EPA and DHA. So, I am taking the cod liver to supplement vitamins A and D and I take the fish oil to supply Omega-3 and its derivatives.
One thing you did not ask about - Flax seed. Although I take the crushed flax seed instead of flax seed oil, I take it for the Omega-3 fatty acids as well as for a source of lignan (low dose phytoestrogen).
According to what I have read - you cannot overdose on the Essential Fatty acids - however - you must watch your ratios between Omega-3 and Omega-6. Basically you should never let you ratio be greater than 1:4 (omega-3:omege-6) and the standard diet has the ratio about 1:25 - which leads to heart disease and other ailments. I am trying for a 2:1 ratio which will enhance muscle building, hormone building, heart health, reduced inflammation ... the list goes on and on.
I find that I don't eat enough cold water fish (salmon, mackrel, sardines, etc) therefore I really push the fish oil, cod liver oil and flax seed. Right now my ratio is about 1.8:1 which is close.
However, I have recently run across data stating that a good goal for the essential fatty acids is 1.5 grams per day of both 3 and 6 and 1.25 grams per day of EPA and DHA. My EPA and DHA are too low by a lot so I am going to redouble my efforts on consuming fish as well as take more of the fish oil.
I know I have thrown a lot of terms around in this response and my apologies to anyone who is wondering about the terms. Here is a great link to a very well written and accurate article about Essential Fatty acids:
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine03/efa.htm
There is a lot to this article and it gets a little scientific at times, but it is great info.
Hope this has shed some light. I am always glad to answer what I can.
waxingmoon
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[url=https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/healthforum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2595329]durga
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Unread postFeb 11, 2008#60
Thanks! Lol-I originally included a question about flax oil, but I edited it because I didn't want to bother you with too many questions
I agree with you about taking these oils whether one is NBE bound or not- I am actually taking these particular supplements for my overall health benefit, the NBE results for me are definately secondary. Right now, I'm taking flax oil and borage oil. I also eat fish, usually salmon, once a week (the oil is too strong in flavor for me, I'm finicky!). I'm considering evening primrose to alternate with the borage, and keeping the flax a standard.
You clarified some questions for me and the link is very interesting and useful...I've always been a bit in the dark about the Omega 3/6/9's. To recap, one should aim to keep omega-6's under control (assuming the standard American diet, with all the vegetable oils out there...) and consume more Omega-3's. Is that right? Obviously, with the proper ratio in mind, of which...I'm still a little confused about, sorry if I'm a little dense!
When you say: "Basically you should never let your ratio be greater than 1:4 (omega-3:omege-6)" and "I am trying for a 2:1 ratio which will enhance muscle building, etc...", what kind of quantities are you referring to (grams, or...)?
For example, I take:
-Flax oil (enriched w/ lignans), I T per day:
Omega-3...7gr
Omega-6...2gr
Omega-9...2.5 gr
Lignans 21 mg
-Borage oil (1,300 mg/1.3 g) per day:
Omega-6...781mg
Omega-9...226mg
Linoleic acid...469 mg
GLA...312 mg (24%)
Does this mean that the flax oil contains a 1:3.5 (omega-3:omega-6) ratio? And if so, would taking the additional borage oil at 781mg (1.2 something grams) of Omega-6, put me at a 1:2-ish (omega-3:omega-6) ratio?? Sorry, I don't have a calculator or a great passion for mathematics...
Regards,
Durga
Thanks for your input. I play tennis because it's a lot of fun as a group of close friends do it regular, even though I am still a beginner and no good at it yet. It's hard to learn new things when one is under a lot of stress and is older. I will just try to be gentle on my knees. Does wearing knee guards help? I will continue to do treadmill as much as I can. I will probably try to 3 times a week, 30 minutes each. Then followed by some push-ups (I hate push-ups maybe because my upper body is not strong), free weights, crunches (hoping to take care of flab on my tummy). Any good suggestions to help flatten the tummy? Exercise facilities are few and far in between. Gym membership is extraordinarily expensive and they are not afraid there aren't enough people joining. Fortunately there is a small gym with some exercise equipment in the apartment complex I live here in Singapore. Even though it's small I am thankful to have it. I have lived here for three years, and have just recently started taking advantage of it. I did work out quite regularly and more in shape when I was back in Colorado. I remember a trainer saying that doing plank is a very efficient time-saving core strength training method. People call it different names, but it's basically hold your body tummy down, supported by toes and elbows only and tuck in all the muscles and hold it for as long as possible. Do you think it's good for toning up muscles? How does it affect NBE? Are there any other efficient strength training methods? I don't have much time on my hands so I always train economize.
Thanks.
Sarah
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Marinora
Unread postDec 18, 2007#52
Quote:How I got my first inch of growth (started Sept 06):I really enjoyed reading your posts, and at the same time I felt very close to you in this subject... I am 34, have no children, and I have a 30AAA, actually I have touble in filling any of the smallest-sized bras because I dont have any shape at all...making it short, I have always been rather embarrased for having such a flat breast!
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) applied days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
My current program:
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
Maca root powder (1/2 tbsp) 1 x per day
Pure Cocoa butter and Vit. E oil massage (5 min) 2x per day
Borage oil (240GLA) 1x per day
Vitex Angus Castus extract (30 drops) 2x per day
Exercises for chest:
Push ups (20 reps) 2 - 3 x per week
Bench press (3 sets of 20 reps) 1 - 2 times per week
Three weeks ago I learned about NBE and straight away I began with herbs and massages...my daily routine is 1500 mg fenugreek and a massage with a home-made cream made of olive oil, fennel and fenugreek. I dont know about the results yet, it is too early but maybe I feel my boobs a bit tighter (though it could also be due to my cycle).
Reading your posts has made me wonder a lot about progesterone and hormonal imbalances...I have always thought that my breast problem was due to something like this because all women in my family have very big cups except me! So some months ago I had a hormonal test done and the result showed that prolactine is a bit high, ans so is thyroidal hormone TSH (the doctor said I have a subclinical hypothyroidism but I need no treatment for that). The rest of the hormone levels were normal.
Oh and I forgot to say that I also suffer from PMS and i have some fibrocystic problems in my small breast....
Could I ask for some advice from all your experience???
Thanks :-)
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waxingmoon
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Unread postDec 18, 2007#53
Quote:How I got my first inch of growth (started Sept 06):Hi Marinora,
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) applied days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
My current program:
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
Maca root powder (1/2 tbsp) 1 x per day
Pure Cocoa butter and Vit. E oil massage (5 min) 2x per day
Borage oil (240GLA) 1x per day
Vitex Angus Castus extract (30 drops) 2x per day
Exercises for chest:
Push ups (20 reps) 2 - 3 x per week
Bench press (3 sets of 20 reps) 1 - 2 times per week
It sounds like you have some of the same symptoms that I have had. My prolactin levels never tested high, but my thyroid stimulating hormone level did test slightly high.
I was not considered a candidate for thyroid replacement hormone by my doctor even though I suffered from many hypothyroid symptoms. I did not get relief from these symptoms until I began using the progesterone cream.
Too much estrogen can cause an increase in thyroid binding proteins that will interfere with the cellular use of thyroid hormone. This is why estrogen dominance symptoms are very much like hypothyroid symptoms.
You might find relief from using progesterone cream as I did. However, it is not a quick fix and will take at least 3 months to be totally effective. It is however a fairly harmless thing to try if you keep the progesterone cream levels reasonable.
I would suggest the book by Dr John Lee - What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause. It will detail how to use the cream and what you can expect from it.
I think if you are patient, you will achieve growth but more importantly you will solve a long standing hormone imbalance problem, which will help you in so many other ways.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
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Marinora
Unread postDec 19, 2007#54
Quote:How I got my first inch of growth (started Sept 06):Many thanks for your advice and quick answer, Waxingmoon!
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) applied days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
My current program:
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
Maca root powder (1/2 tbsp) 1 x per day
Pure Cocoa butter and Vit. E oil massage (5 min) 2x per day
Borage oil (240GLA) 1x per day
Vitex Angus Castus extract (30 drops) 2x per day
Exercises for chest:
Push ups (20 reps) 2 - 3 x per week
Bench press (3 sets of 20 reps) 1 - 2 times per week
Definitely I think I should try with a progesterone cream instead of the home-made one I prepared with estrogenic herbs. It seems a better way to help hormonal disorders. And I will try to get the book too, hope I can find it here.
My doubt now is about the pills I should take as well to help getting some growth... You tried fenugreek too and didnt work for you...actually I wonder if it may be that good to mix a phytoestrogen like fenugreek together with progesterone, well, I have been in NBE only a few weeks and I dont really know that much about it... do you think I should go on with this herb for a while before dropping it in order to see if it works? Or what other herbs would you suggest instead in my case???
Sorry for asking so many questions ... I am a beginner in NBE :-)
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waxingmoon
76
Unread postDec 19, 2007#55
Quote:How I got my first inch of growth (started Sept 06):Marinora,
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) applied days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
My current program:
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
Maca root powder (1/2 tbsp) 1 x per day
Pure Cocoa butter and Vit. E oil massage (5 min) 2x per day
Borage oil (240GLA) 1x per day
Vitex Angus Castus extract (30 drops) 2x per day
Exercises for chest:
Push ups (20 reps) 2 - 3 x per week
Bench press (3 sets of 20 reps) 1 - 2 times per week
I think in your case, I would start with Vitex. It will take about 3 months for you to feel the effect, but it would probably help to balance your hormones better than the estrogenic herbs.
Fenugreek and I are bitter enemies...lol. It was really not a good idea for me. The fennel did nothing that I could tell. I do not believe that estrogenic herbs are right for me considering my estrogen dominance problems.
Of course I am not saying you and I have the same issues, but if we were similar, it would be more likely you would do better to work in trying to raise your progesterone. That is why I think vitex would be a good start for you since it will promote progesterone production in your body. Increasing your progesterone will wake up any dormant estrogen receptors you have and that will enhance your NBE.
Consider yourself on an odyssey that will last many, many months. It is likely that you will gain at least an inch in a relatively short amount of time, however, on you and me both, an inch does not mean we have entered the magical boob land of fitting into regular bras...lol.
I would also suggest some chest muscle developing exercises. I will detail these soon as soon as I get a little more time.
Sarah, I have not forgotten about you. I am working on a basic chest building post - so look for it soon.
waxingmoon
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Marinora
Unread postDec 22, 2007#56
Quote:How I got my first inch of growth (started Sept 06):Hi Waxingmoon, many thanks for all your advice!!! You have given me some hope that I can grow somehow :-)
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) applied days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
My current program:
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
Maca root powder (1/2 tbsp) 1 x per day
Pure Cocoa butter and Vit. E oil massage (5 min) 2x per day
Borage oil (240GLA) 1x per day
Vitex Angus Castus extract (30 drops) 2x per day
Exercises for chest:
Push ups (20 reps) 2 - 3 x per week
Bench press (3 sets of 20 reps) 1 - 2 times per week
I still have a few questions for you...
the first is about Vitex agnus-castus though it may sound a bit stupid... do you know the spanish name for it or other names that might give me a clue to translate???? That would help a lot because in my shop dont know about it, and I have also tried to look for a translation in the web but without result. i know I can order it online and get it from overseas but its much easier and cheaper if I can find it here...
Whenever I can find vitex, I was thinking to start with the same amount you were taking in the beginning of your program, together with some borage oil...my doubt is about the progesterone cream, why were you only applying it from the 12th day of your cycle??? Does it cause a lot of hormone disorder to apply it through the whole month?? Its just that I have a rather not periodic period, I mean it may come from the day 22nd to the 27th, so you can imagine its hard to know exactly which day I should start with the cream....
what a long post, sorry for asking so much :-))
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Louise1982
120
Unread postDec 26, 2007#57
Quote:How I got my first inch of growth (started Sept 06):Hope you don't mind me posting here for something totally unrelated to your program! Just wanted to say thanks for recomending exercise, most of my leg is now hard in some position or another although hasn't shrunk yet and I'm trying to do the Callanetics 30 day program...I'm so bad at putting off doing it even though it takes about 10 mins - I hate doing anything physical! I've recently noticed that defined groove up the outer thigh (doesn't go all the way up yet unless it's under that saddlebag). Is it normal to have one thigh bigger than the other? I'm careful to only do the same reps on each side although where I dislocated the right knee I sometimes have to do say 2 sets of 10 on the left leg (standing on the right) whereas I can do 20 straight on the right. I think my butt is looking better....if it flattens away to nothing I can always try some maca! Also the most important thing for me is that I feel this has no effect on my boobs, I lost the fat in there before I started NBE and what I've grown from Brava is probably more connective tissue and skin (and ? underlying bone - they are rock hard!). From your point of view I can now run to my local post office and back (previously even when I did gym 4x weekly I couldn't even jog there never mind back again!).
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) applied days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
My current program:
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
Maca root powder (1/2 tbsp) 1 x per day
Pure Cocoa butter and Vit. E oil massage (5 min) 2x per day
Borage oil (240GLA) 1x per day
Vitex Angus Castus extract (30 drops) 2x per day
Exercises for chest:
Push ups (20 reps) 2 - 3 x per week
Bench press (3 sets of 20 reps) 1 - 2 times per week
Also just wondered as a trainer and not a hippy what you think about lymph drainage / massage / dry brushing - is there any science behind any of this?
Hope you had a happy xmas and you're doing well xx
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durga
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Unread postFeb 11, 2008#58
Quote:How I got my first inch of growth (started Sept 06):Waxingmoon,
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) applied days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
My current program:
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
Maca root powder (1/2 tbsp) 1 x per day
Pure Cocoa butter and Vit. E oil massage (5 min) 2x per day
Borage oil (240GLA) 1x per day
Vitex Angus Castus extract (30 drops) 2x per day
Exercises for chest:
Push ups (20 reps) 2 - 3 x per week
Bench press (3 sets of 20 reps) 1 - 2 times per week
Firstly, congratulations on your growth! It continues to be inspiring to "witness" your dedication.
I am curious about the oils that you use. I'm still doing research (it seems it may never end!) and oils are my latest investigation...so, a few questions:
-Why did you decide to switch from borage to evening primrose oil?
-Also, I noticed you take both cod liver oil and fish oil. What do you understand to be the difference and why do you take both?
-Do you think it's possible to take too much GLA's and omega's? You seem to be taking alot... is more better in the case of GLAs and EFAs?
Thanks for your time!
Durga
Last edited by durga on 8:49 AM - Feb 11, 2008, edited 1 time in total.
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waxingmoon
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Unread postFeb 11, 2008#59
Quote:How I got my first inch of growth (started Sept 06):Hi Durga,
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) applied days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
My current program:
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
Maca root powder (1/2 tbsp) 1 x per day
Pure Cocoa butter and Vit. E oil massage (5 min) 2x per day
Borage oil (240GLA) 1x per day
Vitex Angus Castus extract (30 drops) 2x per day
Exercises for chest:
Push ups (20 reps) 2 - 3 x per week
Bench press (3 sets of 20 reps) 1 - 2 times per week
Thank you for your kind words. NBE has been a big turn around for me in many ways -not just the size of my boobs.
I would be glad to talk with you about my oil routine.
First of all, the supplements I take are primarily for health and not NBE - however, I believe they do help in NBE greatly. Yet,I would take them even if they did not help my breast growth.
I switched from borage to evening primrose oil primarily to create variation in my diet. Both borage and EPO provide Omega-6 fatty acids. I believe EPO is slightly higher - but essentially they are the same.
Cod liver oil contains more Vitamin A and D than what is labeled fish oil. It also does not contain as much Omega-3 fatty acids nor as much EPA and DHA. So, I am taking the cod liver to supplement vitamins A and D and I take the fish oil to supply Omega-3 and its derivatives.
One thing you did not ask about - Flax seed. Although I take the crushed flax seed instead of flax seed oil, I take it for the Omega-3 fatty acids as well as for a source of lignan (low dose phytoestrogen).
According to what I have read - you cannot overdose on the Essential Fatty acids - however - you must watch your ratios between Omega-3 and Omega-6. Basically you should never let you ratio be greater than 1:4 (omega-3:omege-6) and the standard diet has the ratio about 1:25 - which leads to heart disease and other ailments. I am trying for a 2:1 ratio which will enhance muscle building, hormone building, heart health, reduced inflammation ... the list goes on and on.
I find that I don't eat enough cold water fish (salmon, mackrel, sardines, etc) therefore I really push the fish oil, cod liver oil and flax seed. Right now my ratio is about 1.8:1 which is close.
However, I have recently run across data stating that a good goal for the essential fatty acids is 1.5 grams per day of both 3 and 6 and 1.25 grams per day of EPA and DHA. My EPA and DHA are too low by a lot so I am going to redouble my efforts on consuming fish as well as take more of the fish oil.
I know I have thrown a lot of terms around in this response and my apologies to anyone who is wondering about the terms. Here is a great link to a very well written and accurate article about Essential Fatty acids:
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine03/efa.htm
There is a lot to this article and it gets a little scientific at times, but it is great info.
Hope this has shed some light. I am always glad to answer what I can.
waxingmoon
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[url=https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/healthforum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2595329]durga
3
Unread postFeb 11, 2008#60
Quote:How I got my first inch of growth (started Sept 06):Waxingmoon,
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) applied days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
My current program:
Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
Maca root powder (1/2 tbsp) 1 x per day
Pure Cocoa butter and Vit. E oil massage (5 min) 2x per day
Borage oil (240GLA) 1x per day
Vitex Angus Castus extract (30 drops) 2x per day
Exercises for chest:
Push ups (20 reps) 2 - 3 x per week
Bench press (3 sets of 20 reps) 1 - 2 times per week
Thanks! Lol-I originally included a question about flax oil, but I edited it because I didn't want to bother you with too many questions
I agree with you about taking these oils whether one is NBE bound or not- I am actually taking these particular supplements for my overall health benefit, the NBE results for me are definately secondary. Right now, I'm taking flax oil and borage oil. I also eat fish, usually salmon, once a week (the oil is too strong in flavor for me, I'm finicky!). I'm considering evening primrose to alternate with the borage, and keeping the flax a standard.
You clarified some questions for me and the link is very interesting and useful...I've always been a bit in the dark about the Omega 3/6/9's. To recap, one should aim to keep omega-6's under control (assuming the standard American diet, with all the vegetable oils out there...) and consume more Omega-3's. Is that right? Obviously, with the proper ratio in mind, of which...I'm still a little confused about, sorry if I'm a little dense!
When you say: "Basically you should never let your ratio be greater than 1:4 (omega-3:omege-6)" and "I am trying for a 2:1 ratio which will enhance muscle building, etc...", what kind of quantities are you referring to (grams, or...)?
For example, I take:
-Flax oil (enriched w/ lignans), I T per day:
Omega-3...7gr
Omega-6...2gr
Omega-9...2.5 gr
Lignans 21 mg
-Borage oil (1,300 mg/1.3 g) per day:
Omega-6...781mg
Omega-9...226mg
Linoleic acid...469 mg
GLA...312 mg (24%)
Does this mean that the flax oil contains a 1:3.5 (omega-3:omega-6) ratio? And if so, would taking the additional borage oil at 781mg (1.2 something grams) of Omega-6, put me at a 1:2-ish (omega-3:omega-6) ratio?? Sorry, I don't have a calculator or a great passion for mathematics...
Regards,
Durga