06-09-2011, 19:29
Well lilmissprettytits,
Stimulating estrogen receptors is not the same as being a phyto-estrogen. I stick to the scientific documents only. Phyto-estrogens are digested to 17β-estradiol:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=35716#pid35716
FG does increase natural estrogens, but FG increases prolactin and progesterone too:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=34475#pid34475
I think the confusion is caused by a recent study in India using MCF-7 cell lines. This study finds estrogenic activity:
http://medind.nic.in/iby/t10/i6/ibyt10i6p814.pdf
But others find the opposite:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0009279707002360
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010782405003252
or no effect on estrogen levels at all:
http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/ijesab/vol2/iss1/13/
The fundamental reason for the conflicting experimental results is in my view diosgenin. Like wild yam, fenugreek contains diosgenin. Diosgenin is used in the laboratory to make DHEA, but there is no biochemical reaction pathway that does that in vivo. Wild yam does block the metabolism of estrone to 16α-hydroxyestrone. Because of that, it can cause an increase in estrone. The body can also make estradiol from estrone:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Steroidogenesis.svg
so studies may even find an increase in estradiol in the right circumstances.
But does that make diosgenin or fenugreek a phyto-estrogen? No. The estrogenic effect of the real phyto-estrogens is much stronger, because they are digested directly to 17β-estradiol, which is a strong estrogen.
For me, the main effect of FG is galactogogue, because it increases prolactin. It is also hypoglycemic, because it releases insulin and increases insulin sensitivity. A third effect is the increase of progesterone. A slight increase in natural estrogens may also occur in the right circumstances. Did anybody ever get a headache from FG?
Stimulating estrogen receptors is not the same as being a phyto-estrogen. I stick to the scientific documents only. Phyto-estrogens are digested to 17β-estradiol:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=35716#pid35716
FG does increase natural estrogens, but FG increases prolactin and progesterone too:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=34475#pid34475
I think the confusion is caused by a recent study in India using MCF-7 cell lines. This study finds estrogenic activity:
http://medind.nic.in/iby/t10/i6/ibyt10i6p814.pdf
But others find the opposite:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0009279707002360
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010782405003252
or no effect on estrogen levels at all:
http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/ijesab/vol2/iss1/13/
The fundamental reason for the conflicting experimental results is in my view diosgenin. Like wild yam, fenugreek contains diosgenin. Diosgenin is used in the laboratory to make DHEA, but there is no biochemical reaction pathway that does that in vivo. Wild yam does block the metabolism of estrone to 16α-hydroxyestrone. Because of that, it can cause an increase in estrone. The body can also make estradiol from estrone:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Steroidogenesis.svg
so studies may even find an increase in estradiol in the right circumstances.
But does that make diosgenin or fenugreek a phyto-estrogen? No. The estrogenic effect of the real phyto-estrogens is much stronger, because they are digested directly to 17β-estradiol, which is a strong estrogen.
For me, the main effect of FG is galactogogue, because it increases prolactin. It is also hypoglycemic, because it releases insulin and increases insulin sensitivity. A third effect is the increase of progesterone. A slight increase in natural estrogens may also occur in the right circumstances. Did anybody ever get a headache from FG?