03-11-2011, 10:20
BO... estrogen or progesterone?
October 16 2007 at 1:38 AM Kitty (Login Kittyluv09)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know herbs can be either or.... is this the same for BO? And if so, is BO/BB more on the estrogen side or progesterone side?
Author Reply
sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 16 2007, 12:21 PM
BO is estrogen..BB says it is progesteron based since they add pituitary to their caps.But ovaries produces estrogen
good luck
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 17 2007, 6:55 PM
I don't think the question is that simple. Ovaries don't just produce estrogen. Depending on whether there has been ovulation they also produce progesterone from the corpus luteum that remains after the egg exits. In our bodies it is from where we get most of our progesterone.
Now of course we don't know what 'time of the month' it was for the cows (or the pigs) being slaughtered. Certainly some of them would have recently ovulated and therefore they would be producing progesterone from their ovaries as well as estrogen.
I think since we know so little about the age of the animals, the state of their bodies, we can only presume that there is both estrogen and progesterone from bovine/porcine ovary.
Who knows how much of either - who knows if each batch has the same amount of hormones at the same ratios. There is no standardization controls on these products. If you got a batch of ovary that was 'harvested' in the spring (or whenever cows/pigs go into season) then you have a batch that is more progesterone.
The bottom line is unless you are having each pill tested in the lab -you have no idea what amount of what hormone it contains.
I am not trying to put off anybody about the idea of bovine or porcine ovary - I just don't want anyone getting the wrong idea about it either.
This very topic could be the reason that some people respond better to BO than others -- They may actually be taking very different amounts of hormones even though they are taking the same product.
Just my .02 cents
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 17 2007, 7:52 PM
Excellent point Waxingmoon,
I never thought of that this way.Thanks for sharing
Edit Message Delete Message
Judith
(no login) Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 18 2007, 8:25 AM
Waxingmoon is right. What you get from consuming ovary would most likely vary enormously from one bottle to another. I'm sure there is a certain amount of 'pot luck' involved in what you get from any one bottle.
Edit Message Delete Message
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 18 2007, 4:34 PM
Well because I was curious I did some research to see just how often cows and pigs ovulate (and therefore produce progesterone from the corpus luteum).
For pigs - they have a 21 day cycle. This would mean in the slaughtered pig it would be likely that there was progesterone in the ovarian tissue.
For cows - well they may also have a 3 week cycle, but I am not sure that they cycle all year long. One big difference is that the corpus luteum they produce is very large. This would mean there might be more progesterone in the cow ovary versus pig ovary - just due to the size difference. But if cows only cycle for part of the year then the chances of them being slaughtered after ovulation are lower... so maybe there is less progesterone on average in bovine ovary.
This is all very frustrating. How in the world can we evaluate something when so many of the variables are unknown.
The answer still has to be THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO KNOW - in regards to progesterone versus estrogen ratios in ovary supplements.
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
KittyC
(Login KittyCharlette)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 18 2007, 11:38 PM
Thanks waxingmoon! Very good points. I just wish I had read that or thought about that back in Janurary when I started taking BO. I took it for 6 or 7 months I think and gained nothing but nasty side effects.
(.Y.)
Edit Message Delete Message
gokhil
(no login) Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? November 12 2007, 7:53 AM
yes it's true. eating one bottle of ovaries will give you quite different chemical composition to eating another bottle of ovaries. there is no standardisation or quality control, so it's going to vary a lot and you simply get what you get.
Edit Message Delete Message
Lost Sheep
(no login) Try using Standard Process November 17 2007, 1:17 AM
Try using a high quality tested supplement. Standard Process is a brand that measures the exact amounts of their product in every bottle they sell. They have been selling pig and cow glands for over 50 years. They routinely are tested by 3rd party companies and always pass. And no, I'm not a rep - I just happen to know some folks who swear by their vitamins and supplements.
Edit Message Delete Message
GoodGoodGoodluck
(Login GoodGoodGoodluck) Standard Process November 17 2007, 2:01 AM
That's great info - had no idea about Standard Process. Is there a particular supplement they have to specifically promote breast growth? What else have you heard about Standard Process?
Edit Message Delete Message
GoodGoodGoodluck
(Login GoodGoodGoodluck) KittyC - Side Effects? November 17 2007, 2:08 AM
Hi KittyC! May I ask you what side effects you had with BO (was it Bountiful Breast?) and when you started to notice the side effects? And if you are still experiencing the side effects now?
I have been contemplating whether to do the bovine ovary route or the phytoestrogen route for a while now. I was in a health store the other day and was introduced to Complete La Femme (by Baywood). Completely confused and not sure what to do...
Edit Message Delete Message
Lost Sheep
(no login) Standard Process November 18 2007, 5:32 AM
Standard Process used to only be sold to medical professionals (and likely they would like to keep it that way), mainly DO and DC because in the US most MDs don't believe in selling supplements, rather they prescribe Rx meds.
It's much easier to get SP now thanks to the Internet. Again, I don't seel them, haven't used them - but intend to thanks to the ladies here who have encouraged me to get started. They say all of their bovine comes from New Zealand. Ebay sellers even supply this brand now, for less than the prices I saw on the site I pulled the info from.
I noticed that there are 2 different kinds of chemicals extracted from the bovine ovary. Interesting, I wonder which one is the most effect for NBE. One friend who uses them for health reasons said not to use their products without seeing a doc. She didn't consider it safe to just randomly take glandulars made by SP. At any rate, here's some stuff copied from another site.
Standard Process - Ovex P 90 Tablets ~ $20.00
STP-6625
Ovex P is a Cytosol extract derived from porcine ovary, one of a pair of female reproductive glands. The ovaries produce reproductive cells and hormones. Ovex P contains many of the substances produced by the gland, such as hormone precursors, acids, and enzymes. Content Product No. 90 Tablets 6625 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 185 MG Porcine ovary Cytosol extract, magnesium citrate, and mixed tocopherols. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, calcium stearate, and ascorbic acid. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Vitamin C 2 mg 2% Each tablet supplies 120 mg of porcine ovary Cytosol extract.
Standard Process - Ovex 90 Tablets ~ $28.00
STP-6600
Ovex is a Cytosol extract derived from bovine ovary, one of a pair of female reproductive glands. The ovaries produce reproductive cells and hormones. Ovex contains many of the substances produced by the gland, such as hormone precursors, acids, and enzymes. Content Product No. 90 Tablets 6600 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 185 MG Bovine ovary Cytosol extract, magnesium citrate, and mixed tocopherols. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, calcium stearate, ascorbic acid, and gelatin. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Vitamin C 2 mg 2% Each tablet supplies 120 mg bovine ovary Cytosol extract.
Standard Process - Ovatrophin PMG 90 Tablets ~ $16.00
STP-6550
Ovatrophin PMG contains Protomorphogen extracts which are uniquely derived nucleoprotein-mineral extracts that support cellular health. Bovine ovary PMG extract helps maintain the ovary in a good state of repair to support healthy ovary function. � Content Product No. 90 Tablets 6550 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 190 MG Bovine ovary PMG extract and magnesium citrate. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, and calcium stearate. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Calcium 20 mg 2% Sodium 20 mg <1% Each tablet supplies 125 mg bovine ovary PMG extract.
Standard Process - Pituitrophin PMG 90 Tablets ~ $28.00
STP-6850
The pituitary gland is often referred to as the �master gland of the body.� It is an endocrine gland that store and secretes a number of hormones to regulate and balance many metabolic activities and physiological functions. Pituitrophin PMG contains Protomorphogen extracts which are uniquely derived nucleoprotein-mineral extracts that support cellular health. Bovine pituitary PMG extract helps maintain the pituitary gland in a good state of repair to support healthy pituitary function. � Content Product No. 90 Tablets 6850 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 118 MG Magnesium citrate and bovine pituitary PMG extract. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, and calcium stearate. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Calcium 30 mg 2% Each tablet supplies 45 mg bovine pituitary PMG extract.
Standard Process - Utrophin PMG 90 Tablets ~ $15.00
STP-8125
The uterus is a reproductive organ that contains and nourishes the embryo and fetus from the time the fertilized egg is implanted to the time the baby is born. Hormonal relationships between the uterus, placenta, ovaries, and hypothalamus are well documented. Utrophin PMG contains Protomorphogen extracts which are uniquely derived nucleoprotein-mineral extracts that support cellular health. Bovine uterus PMG extract helps maintain the uterus in a good state of repair to support healthy uterus function. � Content Product No. 90 Tablets 8125 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 192 MG Bovine uterus PMG extract and magnesium citrate. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, and calcium stearate. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Calcium 20 mg 2% Sodium 5 mg <1% Each tablet supplies 125 mg bovine uterus PMG extract.
Standard Process - Mammary PMG 90 Tablets ~ $15.00
STP-5450
Theoretically, the mammary glands have a suppressing influence on some reproductive glands but a stimulating influence on the corpus luteum of the ovaries, the adrenal glands, and the hypothalamus. Mammary PMG contains Protomorphogen extracts which are uniquely derived nucleoprotein-mineral extracts that support cellular health. Bovine mammary PMG extract helps maintain the mammary glands in a good state of repair to support healthy mammary gland function. � Content Product No. 90 Tablets 5450 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 185 MG Bovine mammary PMG extract, and magnesium citrate. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, and calcium stearate. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Cholesterol 5 mg 2% Calcium 20 mg 2% Sodium 10 mg <1% Each tablet supplies 120 mg bovine mammary PMG extract.
I noticed other products too, Gonado F by Progressive Labs (90 Capsules) Ovarian Substance - Raw 150 mg
Solaray Female Caps contains pituitary, mammary, ovary, etc
Seems there are some choices out there, but the only one I know of that is tested and passes each year is SP. I'm sure there are others, but I haven't spent enough time or asked any docs about it. The whole reason standardization and testing became an issue to me is that a pharmacist I know told me not to use VitaminShoppe brand anything since that company was selling vitamins under their brand name containing unacceptable levels of lead, which led me to research, find out that is true, saw some reports about vitamin testing and how SP along with a couple others test accurately.
Miss Jones
(Login miss.jones) Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? November 21 2007, 8:50 AM
Your claims don't seem to make any sense. Surely all products have exact amounts of what they are selling? And what has been passed exactly? Some test or standard or what? It seems like meaningless claims.
October 16 2007 at 1:38 AM Kitty (Login Kittyluv09)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know herbs can be either or.... is this the same for BO? And if so, is BO/BB more on the estrogen side or progesterone side?
Author Reply
sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 16 2007, 12:21 PM
BO is estrogen..BB says it is progesteron based since they add pituitary to their caps.But ovaries produces estrogen
good luckwaxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 17 2007, 6:55 PM
I don't think the question is that simple. Ovaries don't just produce estrogen. Depending on whether there has been ovulation they also produce progesterone from the corpus luteum that remains after the egg exits. In our bodies it is from where we get most of our progesterone.
Now of course we don't know what 'time of the month' it was for the cows (or the pigs) being slaughtered. Certainly some of them would have recently ovulated and therefore they would be producing progesterone from their ovaries as well as estrogen.
I think since we know so little about the age of the animals, the state of their bodies, we can only presume that there is both estrogen and progesterone from bovine/porcine ovary.
Who knows how much of either - who knows if each batch has the same amount of hormones at the same ratios. There is no standardization controls on these products. If you got a batch of ovary that was 'harvested' in the spring (or whenever cows/pigs go into season) then you have a batch that is more progesterone.
The bottom line is unless you are having each pill tested in the lab -you have no idea what amount of what hormone it contains.
I am not trying to put off anybody about the idea of bovine or porcine ovary - I just don't want anyone getting the wrong idea about it either.
This very topic could be the reason that some people respond better to BO than others -- They may actually be taking very different amounts of hormones even though they are taking the same product.
Just my .02 cents
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 17 2007, 7:52 PM
Excellent point Waxingmoon,
I never thought of that this way.Thanks for sharing
Edit Message Delete Message
Judith
(no login) Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 18 2007, 8:25 AM
Waxingmoon is right. What you get from consuming ovary would most likely vary enormously from one bottle to another. I'm sure there is a certain amount of 'pot luck' involved in what you get from any one bottle.
Edit Message Delete Message
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 18 2007, 4:34 PM
Well because I was curious I did some research to see just how often cows and pigs ovulate (and therefore produce progesterone from the corpus luteum).
For pigs - they have a 21 day cycle. This would mean in the slaughtered pig it would be likely that there was progesterone in the ovarian tissue.
For cows - well they may also have a 3 week cycle, but I am not sure that they cycle all year long. One big difference is that the corpus luteum they produce is very large. This would mean there might be more progesterone in the cow ovary versus pig ovary - just due to the size difference. But if cows only cycle for part of the year then the chances of them being slaughtered after ovulation are lower... so maybe there is less progesterone on average in bovine ovary.
This is all very frustrating. How in the world can we evaluate something when so many of the variables are unknown.
The answer still has to be THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO KNOW - in regards to progesterone versus estrogen ratios in ovary supplements.
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
KittyC
(Login KittyCharlette)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? October 18 2007, 11:38 PM
Thanks waxingmoon! Very good points. I just wish I had read that or thought about that back in Janurary when I started taking BO. I took it for 6 or 7 months I think and gained nothing but nasty side effects.
(.Y.)
Edit Message Delete Message
gokhil
(no login) Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? November 12 2007, 7:53 AM
yes it's true. eating one bottle of ovaries will give you quite different chemical composition to eating another bottle of ovaries. there is no standardisation or quality control, so it's going to vary a lot and you simply get what you get.
Edit Message Delete Message
Lost Sheep
(no login) Try using Standard Process November 17 2007, 1:17 AM
Try using a high quality tested supplement. Standard Process is a brand that measures the exact amounts of their product in every bottle they sell. They have been selling pig and cow glands for over 50 years. They routinely are tested by 3rd party companies and always pass. And no, I'm not a rep - I just happen to know some folks who swear by their vitamins and supplements.
Edit Message Delete Message
GoodGoodGoodluck
(Login GoodGoodGoodluck) Standard Process November 17 2007, 2:01 AM
That's great info - had no idea about Standard Process. Is there a particular supplement they have to specifically promote breast growth? What else have you heard about Standard Process?
Edit Message Delete Message
GoodGoodGoodluck
(Login GoodGoodGoodluck) KittyC - Side Effects? November 17 2007, 2:08 AM
Hi KittyC! May I ask you what side effects you had with BO (was it Bountiful Breast?) and when you started to notice the side effects? And if you are still experiencing the side effects now?
I have been contemplating whether to do the bovine ovary route or the phytoestrogen route for a while now. I was in a health store the other day and was introduced to Complete La Femme (by Baywood). Completely confused and not sure what to do...
Edit Message Delete Message
Lost Sheep
(no login) Standard Process November 18 2007, 5:32 AM
Standard Process used to only be sold to medical professionals (and likely they would like to keep it that way), mainly DO and DC because in the US most MDs don't believe in selling supplements, rather they prescribe Rx meds.
It's much easier to get SP now thanks to the Internet. Again, I don't seel them, haven't used them - but intend to thanks to the ladies here who have encouraged me to get started. They say all of their bovine comes from New Zealand. Ebay sellers even supply this brand now, for less than the prices I saw on the site I pulled the info from.
I noticed that there are 2 different kinds of chemicals extracted from the bovine ovary. Interesting, I wonder which one is the most effect for NBE. One friend who uses them for health reasons said not to use their products without seeing a doc. She didn't consider it safe to just randomly take glandulars made by SP. At any rate, here's some stuff copied from another site.
Standard Process - Ovex P 90 Tablets ~ $20.00
STP-6625
Ovex P is a Cytosol extract derived from porcine ovary, one of a pair of female reproductive glands. The ovaries produce reproductive cells and hormones. Ovex P contains many of the substances produced by the gland, such as hormone precursors, acids, and enzymes. Content Product No. 90 Tablets 6625 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 185 MG Porcine ovary Cytosol extract, magnesium citrate, and mixed tocopherols. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, calcium stearate, and ascorbic acid. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Vitamin C 2 mg 2% Each tablet supplies 120 mg of porcine ovary Cytosol extract.
Standard Process - Ovex 90 Tablets ~ $28.00
STP-6600
Ovex is a Cytosol extract derived from bovine ovary, one of a pair of female reproductive glands. The ovaries produce reproductive cells and hormones. Ovex contains many of the substances produced by the gland, such as hormone precursors, acids, and enzymes. Content Product No. 90 Tablets 6600 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 185 MG Bovine ovary Cytosol extract, magnesium citrate, and mixed tocopherols. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, calcium stearate, ascorbic acid, and gelatin. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Vitamin C 2 mg 2% Each tablet supplies 120 mg bovine ovary Cytosol extract.
Standard Process - Ovatrophin PMG 90 Tablets ~ $16.00
STP-6550
Ovatrophin PMG contains Protomorphogen extracts which are uniquely derived nucleoprotein-mineral extracts that support cellular health. Bovine ovary PMG extract helps maintain the ovary in a good state of repair to support healthy ovary function. � Content Product No. 90 Tablets 6550 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 190 MG Bovine ovary PMG extract and magnesium citrate. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, and calcium stearate. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Calcium 20 mg 2% Sodium 20 mg <1% Each tablet supplies 125 mg bovine ovary PMG extract.
Standard Process - Pituitrophin PMG 90 Tablets ~ $28.00
STP-6850
The pituitary gland is often referred to as the �master gland of the body.� It is an endocrine gland that store and secretes a number of hormones to regulate and balance many metabolic activities and physiological functions. Pituitrophin PMG contains Protomorphogen extracts which are uniquely derived nucleoprotein-mineral extracts that support cellular health. Bovine pituitary PMG extract helps maintain the pituitary gland in a good state of repair to support healthy pituitary function. � Content Product No. 90 Tablets 6850 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 118 MG Magnesium citrate and bovine pituitary PMG extract. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, and calcium stearate. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Calcium 30 mg 2% Each tablet supplies 45 mg bovine pituitary PMG extract.
Standard Process - Utrophin PMG 90 Tablets ~ $15.00
STP-8125
The uterus is a reproductive organ that contains and nourishes the embryo and fetus from the time the fertilized egg is implanted to the time the baby is born. Hormonal relationships between the uterus, placenta, ovaries, and hypothalamus are well documented. Utrophin PMG contains Protomorphogen extracts which are uniquely derived nucleoprotein-mineral extracts that support cellular health. Bovine uterus PMG extract helps maintain the uterus in a good state of repair to support healthy uterus function. � Content Product No. 90 Tablets 8125 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 192 MG Bovine uterus PMG extract and magnesium citrate. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, and calcium stearate. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Calcium 20 mg 2% Sodium 5 mg <1% Each tablet supplies 125 mg bovine uterus PMG extract.
Standard Process - Mammary PMG 90 Tablets ~ $15.00
STP-5450
Theoretically, the mammary glands have a suppressing influence on some reproductive glands but a stimulating influence on the corpus luteum of the ovaries, the adrenal glands, and the hypothalamus. Mammary PMG contains Protomorphogen extracts which are uniquely derived nucleoprotein-mineral extracts that support cellular health. Bovine mammary PMG extract helps maintain the mammary glands in a good state of repair to support healthy mammary gland function. � Content Product No. 90 Tablets 5450 Suggested Use: One tablet per meal, or as directed. Proprietary Blend: 185 MG Bovine mammary PMG extract, and magnesium citrate. Other Ingredients: Calcium lactate, cellulose, and calcium stearate. Supplement Facts: Serving size: 1 Tablet Servings per container: 90 Each serving contains: %DV Calories 1 Cholesterol 5 mg 2% Calcium 20 mg 2% Sodium 10 mg <1% Each tablet supplies 120 mg bovine mammary PMG extract.
I noticed other products too, Gonado F by Progressive Labs (90 Capsules) Ovarian Substance - Raw 150 mg
Solaray Female Caps contains pituitary, mammary, ovary, etc
Seems there are some choices out there, but the only one I know of that is tested and passes each year is SP. I'm sure there are others, but I haven't spent enough time or asked any docs about it. The whole reason standardization and testing became an issue to me is that a pharmacist I know told me not to use VitaminShoppe brand anything since that company was selling vitamins under their brand name containing unacceptable levels of lead, which led me to research, find out that is true, saw some reports about vitamin testing and how SP along with a couple others test accurately.
Miss Jones
(Login miss.jones) Re: BO... estrogen or progesterone? November 21 2007, 8:50 AM
Your claims don't seem to make any sense. Surely all products have exact amounts of what they are selling? And what has been passed exactly? Some test or standard or what? It seems like meaningless claims.