[AbiDrew85]

OK. Holy what the heck.

Seriously. HGH is entirely over-rated, both for breast growth, and for muscle building. Unless you're seriously massively deficient: Don't stress it.

Now to debunk some myths.

Well, for one thing, everything timarie has said, I'm going to save some time here and say: YES! Listen to her, she DOES know what she's talking about when she says stuff, and if she doesn't, she does her research before talking so she doesn't do so just right up out of her ass.

But it seems to me she's being a little too soft. So yes. I'm going to go all out tough girl on some of this shit.

protein intake
intensive short workout.
less carb and sugar in diet
fasting one day in a weak
sleep well (by turning of all the artificial lights early (including TV, and computer ) to allow the secretion of melatonin ) and with the help of hypnosis to .

VERY GOOD POINTS! Though nix the once a week on fasting and try to only do that once a month. If you do face monetary reasons you might wind up fasting more often, it might not hurt too badly to fast up to once a week, but absolutely no more than that. Fasting once a MONTH is healthy. More than that and your body starts to be deprived and starts storing up fat deposits.

Exercise is proven method but for NBE, I feel that is counter-indicated. Its needs to be high intensity exercise, and that would cause a spike in testosterone as well as make you catabolic. Exactly what you don't want to be doing when trying to put on fat and glandular tissues in your breasts.

Also, that vast majority of gh is released during rem sleep. So its important if you want to produce as much gh as possible to get 7h+ deep consecutive sleep with no waking. Don't take melatonin at anything over .5mg or will actually shut down all production of gh. No medical sleep adds!

Uhm, NO!

Exercise is NEVER counter-indicated. ALWAYS ALWAYS need to get enough exercise and eat right.

As for melatonin. Care to share your sources, cuz I have plenty to say otherwise.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8370132

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5660721

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/59688-melatonin-exercse-hgh/

And that's just on the first page of NORMAL google results.

Here's what scholar gets us:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=melatonin+exercise+increase+hgh&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C36

And if you go in and read the actual results, the melatonin either had NO EFFECT, OR, WITH THE ADDITION OF STRENUOUS EXERCISE IT INCREASED HGH.

So no. Just no.

All us NBE are trying to trick our bodies to put on breast growth.. Being catabolic, decreasing your natural test to testosterone ratio is simply a harmful appraoch for the gains we trying to get.

Its important to be excess calorie state, maximize estrogen and progesterone, keep test low, get sufficient sleep.

Your best chance of putting on breast tissue IMO is not to do rigorous exercise.. Go ahead if you want too but don't be confused as to why you are not seeing results or results are slower then what you hoped for. You can work on body later and get to a balance between breasts and fitness.. And I'll almost guarantee you when do start to be active you'll probably lose breast more quickly then from your waste and hips unless you are digilant with massage.

Hell to the no.

Catabolism does NOT inhibit breast growth if we define breast growth as being most specifically glandular development. NEWSFLASH, I was on a controlled catabolic diet for OVER A YEAR and DEFINITELY got slow but definite gains in glandular development. My fat and muscle flattened, but that was the point. I wanted to start from a "clean slate" on building a completely different and much improved figure. Now that I'm eating more normally in preparation to go on a gains diet soon, I'm starting to slowly put on the fat deposits in my hips and breasts. And this is just eating a mostly weight maintaining diet. Not even on a gaining diet yet.

As timarie pointed out, "maximizing" estrogen and progesterone is NOT the goal. The goal is to "maximize" your hormonal BALANCE. Bigger peaks, deeper valleys, steeper curves. Minimizing testosterone is important as well, yes. But exercising isn't going to make that big a difference on testosterone levels. It really isn't. Even less than it makes on HGH, significantly less. Especially for a FEMALE.

And lolwut. Massage? Seriously? Do you have a single freaking clue what you're talking about? If you're catabolic and massaging, the increased circulation to the area you're massaging means MORE LOSS.

Don't get me wrong, exercise is a key to a healthy and long but equally as important is getting long sustain sleep and low stress low cortisol.

The first actually intelligent thing you said.

Once a nbe'r is pleased with her gains, then she can slowly add exercise back.. 6-12 months shouldn't make a significant difference to your health if your taking care and eating clean.

But then you ruin it. 6 to 12 months isn't going to get anyone ANY gains. Not real gains. That's just enough to maaaaaybe start to notice it, a little, maybe. But entire cup sizes of real sustained growth that won't shrink away into disgusting misshapen stretched out lumps soon after stopping the program? Nope. Not happening.

So no. Your entire premise is false here. You're talking about increasing breast FAT not breast GROWTH. And DUH that's going to go away with eating right and proper exercise. And the thing is... Some of us actually would rather GASP, not grow, than get fatty boob.

Easy with the hostility, I didn't say anything controversial or personally attack anyone. No wonder so many educated helpful members have stop posting and left.

LOL. Guess what. I'm one of them who'd left for a while. Guess what.

Hostility? Maybe you're being sensitive, but I don't see it even when looking back at what I wrote. You are more than welcome to point it out. And actually, the helpful members leave when they get frustrated with people who make silly and stupid statements over and over again, no matter how many times the truth is told to them. They get frustrated and lose their cool, and eventually leave because it is unfair when they try to help people, and people keep insisting on their warped ideas no matter how many times the senior member tells them otherwise. No senior members have had a problem with me as of yet; the only people who have an issue with me were newer people.

Making a statement such as you just made was very passive-aggressive which I did not deserve, as I simply only disagreed with you, asked if you could clarify some things you said as they were unclear, and told you my frustration with that mentality in NBE. I don't see any harm in that, nor do I see any hostility or points directed at you. It is these kind of passive-aggressive comments, as well as the continued illogical push towards a less-healthy lifestyle, that tire me out. I am only here to keep people from believing the idea of "no exercise is better." But once presented with both sides of the argument, hopefully they should be able to make a decision to know.

That's why I took a break!

And if you think Tina's been being hostile... I wonder what you'll make of my response! Cuz while she's been soft and civil, I AM HOSTILE.

The simple fact is, comparing a person who is naturally gifted with C+ breasts with a slim waste to someone with A-B cup breasts are trying to outdue your natural state and put on additional glandular extensioning and fat disposition is just a poor argument.

Are you related to a certain senator who read Green Eggs and Ham on the Senate Floor recently? You just sounded JUST like him. Or maybe you're related to his BFF in the House, a certain lady who makes even the rest of the Tea Party seem sane... Cuz seriously. Was this supposed to make any sense? It didn't. And you never did tell Tina what you meant by it.

They're are so many fallacies regarding gh out there its ridiculous.

On this we agree. But I don't think we agree on what they are. Are you being contrary just to be so?

Anyway, the Human Growth Hormone is definitely important for growing your boobies period. Mainly cuz you try to force your body to be out of its comfort zones to grow Extra layer.

No. It really isn't. I can assure you my hgh was probably not that great for a while but I still kept gaining. The difference was that I wound up being tired and sleeping more. HGH helps us to grow and or recover without being lethargic. You'll grow and or recover regardless. But the hgh will prevent lethargy.

Keeping good levels of hgh depends on living a healthy lifestyle. Literally. Eat RIGHT, live RIGHT, exercise RIGHT, and you'll have all the hgh released in response to any bodily requirement you might ever have that you actually need. Which brings me to another point. If your hgh levels ARE low, then they don't NEED to be any higher, which means you're doing it wrong.

Beneficial but how to increase it in a meaningful and useful way is unknown unless you do so with injections of GH. Honestly the holy grail for natural inbody stimulation as the loss of gh is directly associated with aging.

You've got this bass-ackwards.

Aging is directly associated with a loss of hgh. In other words, as our hgh levels fall, we begin to experience accelerated aging.

I think we can both agree, exercise GH release is very unlikely if at all to provide any meaningful NBE - especially since it requires intense exercise, that most people fail to achieve and if you are doing so daily, you'll be hurting your chances for NBE.

Completely FALSE. EXERCISE is a key component of PREVENTING ACCELERATED AGING. So, following the logic of my statement above, if loss of hgh means accelerated aging, and exercise prevents accelerated aging, exercise must have a profound effect on keeping hgh levels high. Lolwut.

It's also not entirely true that kids always necessarily have higher hgh levels than adults. More recent studies have shown decreasing levels of HGH in kids today compared to kids in the past. What does this mean? Well. What aren't kids today doing as much of? EXERCISE! Combined with poor diets consisting of too many calories and not enough nutrition and then today's fast-paced world limiting their sleep and BAM. There goes all that hgh and now kids are aging faster. Haven't you noticed that phenomena? I have. So have lots of scientists and other medical researchers. Do I need to bring up links to material to prove it like I did to debunk your melatonin garbage?

6g-day of L-arginine I have seen data that it does boost GH. That said, its not so innocent as its traditionally used as a vasodilator, has effect on blood pressure etc.

GABA does as well but need to do so at high doses. The safety risk then comes into play of taking large doses of GABA for prolonged periods of time ie months to years.

These are PROTEINS, the first is an amino acid, the second is a complete protein chain, as with ALL PROTEINS A CERTAIN BALANCE MUST BE MAINTAINED. So taking these as supplements only makes sense if you aren't getting enough of them in your food, and then only enough to achieve proper BALANCE should be taken!

Yes I agree there is now a movement and awareness that traditional training isn't healthy or even the best option. That more traditional yoga, tai chi, running are more effective. You're a minority that understands exercise and how certain forms of exercise have differing implications. You should in my opinion offer advise assuming others are... Because 90% or more of north American are clueless. They still think life a free weight or doing elliptical in a gym will give weight loss and health changing results..

LOLWUT!

NO! NO! NO!

Yoga, tai chi, running, etc. These are all aerobic exercises. They help improve catabolism and helps to LOSE WEIGHT. Lifting is ANAEROBIC and help improve ANABOLISM and helps to GAIN WEIGHT.

TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT BUT EQUALLY IMPORTANT KINDS OF EXERCISE!

As a direct result of lack of people being active as a result of TV, internet, cars: we simply do not need the calories as indicated for active individuals. Couple that with peoples having become accustomed to massive stomach distension as a result.. People FEEL they are hungry when there not. So yes, 1\3 to 1\2 for average person is absolutely appropriate. Considering they are typically eating 3000+ calories and 50% liquid unfibered artifically sweetened. A typical person could not put a meal together that was 1500 per day! They might for 1 single meal! Add in transfats, artifical sweetners, preservatives, substances like pink slime in the USA, hormone injections, cmo feed animals, gmo human food which all make you put on weight.

Which is why we're telling you to get off your bum and EXERCISE. Eat right and EXERCISE. Ditch the modern lifestyle and GET ACTIVE.

Because trust me, it is extremely difficult to get proper nutrition even trying to eat right without being in excess of 2000 calories if not 2500. But minimizing calories really isn't that hard if you watch what you eat. My biggest meal of the day is only roughly 600-700 calories. That's dinner. It's a chicken sandwich. If I ate a chicken salad instead, ditched the cheese, used more veg, I could easily make my dinner just as satisfying and keep it under 300 calories. Which is what I might do if I really wanted to keep eating chicken when I move to a weight gaining diet. I don't. So won't happen that way. But it's a good example.

If you are only going to do one. Pre is absolutely more essential. That said, there is real value in post nutrition but consists of very different intake requirements.

Pretty sure timarie was just teasing you, but I'm gunna tell it to you straight: WRONG! Pre and Post are EQUALLY IMPORTANT AND NECESSARY when working out. If you're NOT working out, but just living a "normal" regularly active life, then it's important to keep yourself constantly processing another meal. Between 5 to 7 small meals a day.

There's also very little difference between pre- and post- nutritional needs. Both are different from the needs for other times of the day and any other day.

Much of that has to with DNA (can provide with scientific evidence of growth stop signalling if needed of long bones etc) and stem cells.

Actually you're oversimplifying. It's actually far more complex than that, and it's not that the DNA determines you reached your potential, it's that your DNA begins to deteriorate and you no longer produce enough stem cells to make repairs. It's very different, and this is what AGING means. And I've already told you how to slow aging.

Actually, protein isn't key. Its anti-oxidants, fats, fiber, sugars then protein. And when it comes to protein, its important to vary it up. Vegatative proteins are significantly healthier then animal and animal byproduct protein - with exception of eggs. Whey is simply the most marketed cause it was most available one and had the high anabolic score. Milk suupliers finally had an outlet for their waste product. That said, others were pretty close and in real world application equal.

NO!

Protein is the single most important nutrient to the human body. It is the nutrient we need the most of. Period. Then it's fiber. Then GOOD fats, then vitamins and minerals... Anti-oxidants are fully handled by then. We need to AVOID sugars!

As for whey... Why do you have such a vendetta against whey? Are you vegan?

The fact is if you are doing lifting you will require more BIO-AVAILABLE protein than you can get with vegetable proteins.

Have to admit you kind of surprised me with lack of knowledge and stereotyping of it but since you don't use I can see how. That stereotype is of the 80's and 90's. That's not what it does ... Yawn. I'm also surprised you do not use it, you should. Very quickly. Its an energy source. It helps turn burned out ADP molecules into ATP as you workout and does so instantiously. So it gives your muscles massive energy stores for longer duration training both for slow twitch and fast twitch fibers and explosive power gains. It does retain water transiantly in your muscle fibers, buts also a good thing, the added mass allows you to lift more, thereby increasing the effectiveness of your workout. Then you excrete the excess fluid which is minimal but you still benefit in the end. Net positive. Its the single most researched ingredient in sports nutrition.

Creatine isn't "nutrition". Creatine is an enhancement drug. You're telling timarie to dope herself up. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. But isn't necessarily a good thing either. And while we do know that creatine improves high intensity performance, it does not improve low intensity performance and no real research has been done regarding side effects. Only for desired effects.

That said. There's been ample EVIDENCE that doping yourself with creatine can have NEGATIVE side effects, known to athletes, and the ones with a brain on their shoulders won't touch the stuff without medical supervision if at all.