[Isabelle]

Thank you Pansy Mae,

Fortunately, I don't have cravings any more. I took the last L-arginine before noon. If it stays this way, my verdict on L-arginine is: it was great during the ramp up, until it made me hungry

The carbs ruined my waistline. That also has an effect on the under bust size. And because of the larger band size, the cup sizes disappear into thin air. If I ever try L-arginine again, I'll buy just enough for a two week ramp up.

[minkerbell]

Hi Isabelle,

I hope you don't mind me asking you a question (or two!!). I remember reading a post where you said that because progesterone is so high during pregnancy, if a woman still don't get bigger breast during the gestational period, FG wont help? Is it simply too weak or are there other reasons too?

Also, I've noticed that you're taking Goat's Rue - am i correct in thinking the the GR increases prolactin? And if so, can it lead to permanent results, or does it need to be maintained constantly, like when breastfeeding?

Thank you so much, your knowledge and wisdom is simply amazing!!

[Isabelle]

Hi Belle,

You're welcome to ask any question you want here, but I'm afraid I don't have a good answer.

Because your breasts stopped growing at 11, you would probably benefit from creating artificially enhanced hormone cycles for a while. Because you breast fed extensively, you are right to think that there's nothing wrong with glands or prolactin. That leaves the length of the milk ducts, which is unlikely because you come out of the test as estrogen dominant (ED), or overall body fat content, but I assume you have a BMI above 20 because you did bear and feed children, or indeed, progesterone. Usually ED stops NBE, and the answer is in progesterone.

I think FG is weak in comparison to the tenfold natural progesterone increase during pregnancy, yes. Still, I think cycling PM with FG or WY for four cycles, and see if it gets you growing, could be an option.

GR increases prolactin, yes, and it improves insulin sensitivity too. Because you breast fed, I expect you will always have enough prolactin as long as there is enough progesterone. You might benefit from PC or FN, and you may even be one of very few women who might benefit from dong quai or even vitex:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=11940&pid=50371#pid50371

GR may work for you, on two conditions: that you use a lot and use it often. It swells: I get 1 cm after half an hour from 1,500 mg, or 2 cm from 3,000 mg, as tea (for 82.5 kg body weight). Unfortunately, the swelling is totally gone after two hours, so I should drink the tea every one and a half hours, all day. Swelling that is near permanent becomes growth after 3 or 4 months, because stretched tissue grows. It works like brava.

The practical approach to creating permanent swelling involves several herbs that increase prolactin. So I don't have a cup of GR tea at the same time as I take the FG, or when I'm drinking a large pot of licorice tea. All the breast feeding herbs help.

[karen]

Some feedback on Menohop with Soy ....

Well it's day 10 of taking Menohop with Soy (see post #1225 above for details) I have been taking 2 per day ... 1 in the AM and one in late afternoon.

The past 3 days or so I have been seeing lots more ankle/foot swelling when I take Hops with Oatmeal than I saw before. Doses are the same (4,000 mg Natures Answer Hops Strobile Organic Alcohol Extract 1:1) and I have eliminated FG and Licorice tea the past 2 days so it's not because of that.

I have also been "gasier" lately and my #2 is a little different too (softer .... again ) All signs that something is changing in my gastro-intestinal tract.

The foot/ankle swelling is pronounced ... not a subtle difference ...

Oh yeah .... I have 0, none, nada "physical signs" of high labido even if I "help it" (I'll leave it at that) .... that is something that has NEVER happened before. It's apparently DEAD

So I can say this ... Menohop seems to have helped my body convert Hops into Estradiol when taken with food. I'm just about ready to order some organic dried hops strobile ... I'm kinda anxious to see what's different about that.

Karen

[Isabelle]

Thank you karen,

So the Menohop does work. I'm pretty confident about organic hops strobile too

Today is my regular tape day.

Yesterday, I had yogurt for dessert with the kids, but my weight is still 1 lb up from the day before, to 82.5 kg. Body Mass Index (BMI) is even more overweight (25
Breast circumference is the same as two days ago, at 115 cm, or 45 ". Band size has decreased from 89 to 88 cm, but that still rounds to 35 ". Actually, it's 34.65 ". I'm still a US 40 DD, but if my under bust size drops a tiny 0.15 ", I'd be a 38 G. In EU sizes, I'm at 90 H, because the difference between bust and under bust sizes has increased from 26 to 27 cm.

Waist to Hip Ratio (WHR) is fortunately down to 0.82, but still far from the 0.79 of two weeks ago.

Height: 178.5 cm = 5 * 30.48 + 10 * 2.54 = 5' 10"
Weight: 82.5 kg * 2.2046 lbs/kg = 182 lbs
Body Mass Index (BMI): 82.5/1.785/1.785 = 25.9
Breast: 115 cm = 45"
Under: 88 cm = 35" Difference Breast - Under = 115 - 88 = 27 cm = 11 ", US bra size 40 DD, EU 90 H
Waist: 84 cm = 33"
Hip: 102 cm = 40" (actually the widest part around my butt)
Waist to hip ratio (WHR): 84/102 = 0.82

Progress in 2011:
Day 11/7 26/7 08/8 22/8 05/9 19/9 3/10 17/10 31/10 14/11 28/11 12/12 27/12
BMI: 26.5 26.4 26.2 25.7 25.3 26.0 25.70 25.70 25.70 25.60 26.00 25.90 25.90
B-U: 8.00 5.00 8.00 8.00 8.00 10.0 10.00 13.00 11.00 14.00 15.00 16.00 16.00
Size 42AAA AAAA AAA AAA AAA AA 42AAA 42. A 42. A 42. A 42. B 42. B 42. B
WHR 0.95 .945 0.94 0.92 0.92 0.96 0.930 0.940 0.910 0.880 0.880 0.880 0.870

Progress in 2012:
Day 09/1 23/1 06/2 20/2 05/3 19/3 02/4 16/4 30/4 14/5 26/5 28/5
BMI: 25.7 26.7 26.4 25.9 25.7 25.3 25.7 25.0 25.1 25.6 25.7 25.9
B-U: 17.0 18.0 18.0 18.0 20.0 18.0 18.0 25.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 27.0
Size 42 B 42 C 42 C 42 C 42 D 40 C 40 D 38F 38F 40DD 40DD 40DD
WHR 0.84 0.86 0.84 0.86 0.84 0.84 0.83 0.81 0.80 0.79 0.83 0.82
B-U = Breast - Under in cm

[minkerbell]

Dear Isabelle,

Thank you so, so much for your very comprehensive reply - I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to write your reply.

I have been using PC for three cycles now. It does help with a lot of my symptoms - PMT, cramps, clots, bloating etc, but so far no change in breast size. I did use PM for about 3 cycles as well, but my breasts actually shrunk whilst using it.

I have been using a NB pump for 16 months with a little bit of growth, but nowhere near anything substantial unfortunately. I will get some Agnus Castus - does that need to be cycled?
Also, I will definitely start drinking GR - it sounds amazing. If you don't mind me asking you - do you buy the seeds and make a tea from that, or do you grind them up first? I apologize for all the questions; you must have answered them all a million times before!!

Sorry, also meant to ask whther you think I need to increase my progesterone and prolactin?

Thanks again Isabelle, you really are so incredibly helpful.

Belle xx

[Isabelle]

Happy to be of help, Belle,

And happy to read you're doing so well on the PC. And yes, vitex agnus castus is normally used in luteal phase only.

I make tea from the leaves of goat's rue. The leaves are crumbled, and there are a lot of chopped stems in them too. I bought a Chinese porcelain tea infuser mug of 200 ml. I use about 1,500 mg GR for one mug. Three to five mugs a day is enough, because I can take my other swelling herbs in between: fenugreek, licorice tea, and black seed.

[minkerbell]

Thanks again Isabelle, you have been so helpful!!
Do you think I should also continue (and perhaps ramp up) my intake of licorice tea as well as Fenugreek batter for massage?
I take it that you don't cycle the GR? Thank you.
With so much appreciation
Belle x

[SarahSchilling]

Hey Isabelle....I was reading through your thread and saw a post where you were talking about possibly having to cut out oat flakes to keep androgens in check, and it got me thinking.

For the past few months I have been eating steel cut oats for dinner almost everynight. Is it possible this is the reason for my apparent lack of growth over the same time period.

Meaning I've basically been taking SP, then countering it with oats?

Thanks

[Isabelle]

Hi Belle,

Be careful with licorice tea: it contains phyto-estrogens as well. The fenugreek batter may help, yes.

I don't cycle anything. If you start missing ovulations, then skip GR from day 12 until after you ovulate.