[Pink.Chiffon]

For me given we all touch xeno estrogens daily it makes sense to try overpower them with good estrogen but scare mongering has us doing otherwise.  I think life us one big conspiracy now I really do.

Lol the more I read about what is all going wrong for our health in the 21st century (chemical toxins, pesticides, etc), the more I have reached the same conclusion. I have been following the news and doing tons of research on what is going on with food and environmental toxins for ten years now. What is most alarming is the fact that there is a problem is not being acknowledged by the people who are responsible for doing something about it. But I digress.

Yes, liver support is so important. Without it, the hormones build up in your system and all your levels go crazy high. This is what happened to me when I first started bioidentical hormone therapy. I was put on progesterone because my estrogen levels are high and my testosterone was in the high normal range. After the first four months when I had my followup bloodwork done, my progesterone was normal, but my estrogen levels were extremely high and my testosterone was suddenly high too. My doctor put me on a supplement containing DIM and indole-3-carbinol (this is why I take EstroSense). The day after I started taking it I immediately felt the best I have ever felt. So While other people are probably not in the same situation, taking a liver detox supplement certainly cannot hurt.

I also want to address the issue of "hormone balance". Hormone balance does not necessarily mean all levels are the same nor or are they at the same levels at all times or at the same levels at the same time for each individual. But there is probably a ratio of estrogen to progesterone during different parts of one's cycle, which may vary during the cycle, but expected values are pretty well established. My bloodwork is done just once without looking at how the levels are changing during my cycle. So doctors know expected values enough to say what is normal relative to where you are in your cycle.

Does this clear some things up a bit I hope?

I missed this post.. Ok so you took PC cream only to normalise progesteron but have estrogen  go higher! wow that minds blowing. That goes to show progesterone has no influence on actual estrogen levels ( i theorize). I wonder what was happening in your life to have youre estrogen go higher again? 

Ok im going to look into estrosence.

How has taking this influenced breasts if any? Ps i realise breasts are insignificant to reducing estrogen!

Yes, you're right that estrogen and progesterone are produced indepedently of each other and don't directly interact. I am actually taking oral progesterone. I'm not using a cream.

Well, during that time I was working as a contract chemist at a Fortune 500 company, and I have never been in a more toxic work environment. It was extremely stressful and the contractors were always under the microscope. It was like the company was constantly trying to find a reason to replace or get rid of contractors or to otherwise squeeze as much work out of them as possible. In addition, my manager kept trying to "toughen me up". It felt very much like my manager thought my femininity was an obstacle to being able to do my job. I left after 3 months when I got a job offer somewhere else, but I imagine the stress of that did not help matters. My doctor didn't really say why my hormones were all suddenly high. Maybe the progesterone I was taking in addition to my already high estrogen levels was taxing my liver, so the hormones were building up in my blood. That was the impression I got from my doctor since she didn't put me on androgen or estrogen blockers of any sort.

I started taking the EstroSense around the same time as I started taking BO, so I don't know which one is doing what. I feel much better on the EstroSense though: less sluggish, no more brain fog. But I don't think it has necessarily had an impact on my NBE except for getting my hormones in order for the BO to work.

[Pink.Chiffon]

I found another really good website that summarizes the different roles hormones play in the female body.

http://womeninbalance.org/about-hormone-...mones-101/

Here is an excerpt that I think answers the question posed in the title of the thread:

Progesterone is made primarily by the ovaries. The adrenal glands, peripheral nerves, and brain cells produce lesser amounts. Progesterone ensures the development and function of the breasts and female reproductive tract. In the brain, progesterone binds to certain receptors to exert a calming, sedating effect. It improves sleep and protects against seizures.

Progesterone is also a diuretic. It enhances the sensitivity of the body to insulin and the function of the thyroid hormones. It builds bone and benefits the cardiovascular system by blocking plaque formation in the blood vessels and lowering the levels of triglycerides. Progesterone also can increase libido and contribute to the efficient use of fat as a source of energy.

Again, I think this highlights the importance of hormones being in normal range for effective NBE.  

[bettie32]

Pink Chiffon, yes your explanation is very clear. I think I expressed myself incorrectly, it's not like we need to have the exact same level of testosterone, estrogen, progesterone. Like you said, it depends on several factors. Extremely high levels of one particular hormone isn't good of course but that's another story. I guess blood tests are the only way to know if we're on the right track... 

I recently heard about DIM thanks to Ella! Did you notice any increase in breast size, Pink Chiffon? I'm also more interested in non-hormonal methods for NBE but I don't know if they are as effective? Pardon my ignorance but if you had very high estrogen levels and equally high testosterone, wouldn't that be ok? I thought the issue is when one hormone is much higher/lower than the others.....how confusing!

Unfortunately, blood tests are the only way to know, but the good news is that blood tests have never been easier to do or more accessible. I don't know how much it would cost to have hormone levels checked, but it might be worth looking into, as optimizing hormone levels will help your overall health as well.

I haven't been taking DIM for very long and started BO at around the same time, so it is hard to say what is working. I know the DIM supplement made me feel so much healthier and clear-headed, and since I started using the BO and DIM supplement (EstroSense) I have had almost nonstop breast aches, which I wasn't having before. This leads me to believe that it is working, but I couldn't say which one is responsible.

There are some great non-hormone options out there but different things work for different people. BO I think is consideres non-hormone, but it requires hormone balance to work and work well. There are also several non-hormone creams like IsoSensual, which stimulates fat cell growth in the breast and helps fat cells get fatter. I think maybe the best non-hormone NBE method is breast pumps. I just bought a Bosom Beauty breast pump system, which I am waiting to receive in the mail sometime this week.

In terms of hormones, bloodwork measures the concentration. There is a healthy range for any hormone in the blood, so you don't want more than x number of hormone molecules in x amount of blood. These hormones don't cancel each other out or interact directly with each other, so levels that are too high, even if it were all hormones, would be bad for the body because it would cause overstimulation of any body system affected by those hormones. Does that clear things up a little?

Thank you, Pink Chiffon for the explanation/recommendations
Now I understand. Hormones need to be in the normal ranges. I was thinking of taking something to slightly increase estrogen....not too much of course otherwise that could have the opposite effect on breasts but now I realize progesterone is also key! 
Will check out IsoSensual. As for breast pumps, I already use a NB but since I get no swelling would like an extra "push". 

 I like the link you posted, it explains how hormones work in layman's terms :-) Keep us updated on your progress (not sure if you have a personal thread?)

[Pink.Chiffon]

Pink Chiffon, yes your explanation is very clear. I think I expressed myself incorrectly, it's not like we need to have the exact same level of testosterone, estrogen, progesterone. Like you said, it depends on several factors. Extremely high levels of one particular hormone isn't good of course but that's another story. I guess blood tests are the only way to know if we're on the right track... 

I recently heard about DIM thanks to Ella! Did you notice any increase in breast size, Pink Chiffon? I'm also more interested in non-hormonal methods for NBE but I don't know if they are as effective? Pardon my ignorance but if you had very high estrogen levels and equally high testosterone, wouldn't that be ok? I thought the issue is when one hormone is much higher/lower than the others.....how confusing!

Unfortunately, blood tests are the only way to know, but the good news is that blood tests have never been easier to do or more accessible. I don't know how much it would cost to have hormone levels checked, but it might be worth looking into, as optimizing hormone levels will help your overall health as well.

I haven't been taking DIM for very long and started BO at around the same time, so it is hard to say what is working. I know the DIM supplement made me feel so much healthier and clear-headed, and since I started using the BO and DIM supplement (EstroSense) I have had almost nonstop breast aches, which I wasn't having before. This leads me to believe that it is working, but I couldn't say which one is responsible.

There are some great non-hormone options out there but different things work for different people. BO I think is consideres non-hormone, but it requires hormone balance to work and work well. There are also several non-hormone creams like IsoSensual, which stimulates fat cell growth in the breast and helps fat cells get fatter. I think maybe the best non-hormone NBE method is breast pumps. I just bought a Bosom Beauty breast pump system, which I am waiting to receive in the mail sometime this week.

In terms of hormones, bloodwork measures the concentration. There is a healthy range for any hormone in the blood, so you don't want more than x number of hormone molecules in x amount of blood. These hormones don't cancel each other out or interact directly with each other, so levels that are too high, even if it were all hormones, would be bad for the body because it would cause overstimulation of any body system affected by those hormones. Does that clear things up a little?

Thank you, Pink Chiffon for the explanation/recommendations
Now I understand. Hormones need to be in the normal ranges. I was thinking of taking something to slightly increase estrogen....not too much of course otherwise that could have the opposite effect on breasts but now I realize progesterone is also key! 
Will check out IsoSensual. As for breast pumps, I already use a NB but since I get no swelling would like an extra "push". 

 I like the link you posted, it explains how hormones work in layman's terms :-) Keep us updated on your progress (not sure if you have a personal thread?)

Let me know if you have any other questions! I'll do what I can to help. And feel free to PM me if you ever have any questions  

Yeah, I plan to continue the BO with the Bosom Beauty. I think the BO, sheep placenta, and IsoSensual will be really good support for the Bosom Beauty.

I started a thread under the introduce yourself forum. Is that where people usually put personal threads? Or would some place else be more appropriate?

[bettie32]

Let me know if you have any other questions! I'll do what I can to help. And feel free to PM me if you ever have any questions  

Yeah, I plan to continue the BO with the Bosom Beauty. I think the BO, sheep placenta, and IsoSensual will be really good support for the Bosom Beauty.

I started a thread under the introduce yourself forum. Is that where people usually put personal threads? Or would some place else be more appropriate?

Thank you, Pink Chiffon. Will do! <3

Will be checking your thread! It's fine if you posted there but many of us post about our programs/progress in the Personal Programs section. Keep us updated!