Contrare
Pueraria Mirifica may indeed interfer with birth control. Did you flunk high school biology. In fact there are warnings on labels by responsible manufacturers....of course not the stupid mfg and there are many.
Again Contrare.....taking a weel phytoestrogen product like Fenugreek with Pueraria Mirifica a much stronger estrogenic dynamic will only diminish efficacy.
c
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Mind the contrares.
If you are on an estrogen based birth control pill, taking a phytoestrogen such as PM will not result in you getting pregnant. I'm not saying it is a good idea to mix medications, as if you are on birth control you already have strong synthetic hormones in your body. But it will not result in you falling pregnant, in fact taking a phytoestrogen in high enough quantities will cause temporary infertility. Maybe I misunderstood the question, but I thought babydoll was referring to PM interfering with the BCP and it's effectiveness in controlling pregnancy. Warning labels are important, but they are as much a liability insurance for the manufacture as they are a source of information.
I have also heard positives with having a small dose of weaker phytoestrogens mixed with a stronger one. I'm not sure why, maybe it keeps the body guessing, not getting it as used to stronger phytoestrogens as quickly. Whether fenugreek and PM mix well together I don't have experience. Though I am aware that PM and flaxseed work well together, perhaps it is the Omega 3 in flaxseed that helps increase breast growth.
PIX
Your not only absolutely wrong your statements are irresponsible.
I'm in the industry quite technical and well connected to the leading scientists in Thailand, Japan and England....they agree with me.
More importantly there is absolutely no reliable data.....and your not my guru or anyone elses. If you want to take Pueraria Mirifica with birth control ...up to you...but encouraging other women is blatantly irreponsible and drop dead stupid!!!!!!
That is as nice as I can be regarding this issue!
C
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Carlaa1124
I was not encouraging anybody to do anything. I was merely sharing information, which as far as I was aware is what this forum is for.
But I must apologise. I wasn’t aware I was talking to an expert, especially one as well connected as yourself.
How are the leading scientists in Thailand, Japan and England? They must be grateful to have somebody such as yourself that they can refer to if they’re ever unsure.
I’m sorry if I gave the impression of being a guru, it’s the damn glasses they make me look smarter than I actually am.
As far as reliable data goes, that’s a matter of opinion. I would trust real world people in real world situations as much if not more so than a clinical study. As you’re in the industry I’m sure you’re aware how clinical trials can be as fanciful as anything else, “We want this information to agree/disagree with our hypothesis, run some tests until we find one that is statistically significant.”
If I had all the answers I wouldn’t be here. So why are you?
Pix
Because I give you credit for partciipating I'm going to share something with you. If you need new glasses your on your own.
Certainly women use birth control because they are not ready for children. Playing Russian ROULETTE with an unknown can have devastating consequences for women that are unprepaired for children.
Now I'm going to teach you something and this is definitive. Plant estrogens compete for many of the same receptors as prescription estrogens...thus interferring with the drug.
Birth control is designed to lower luteinizing hormone so there is no ovulation....its effects can be very potent. IF uses something like Pueraria Mirifica or even large amounts of weaker estrogens the effects on Lh may not be as prominent.....thus a pregnancy.
Large amounts of Plants estrogens can lower LH but not as well the drugs. In fact in Thai folklore the women ate large amounts of PM as a natural birth control agent, but it was far from 99.9 per cent effective.
Unfortunately if you use large amounts of plant estrogens or supplements you may not get an additive effect but rather dimnishing the efficay of the drug.
If you are taking tamoxifen for instance forbreast cancer, one rason the doctor will tell you to stay away from plant estrogens is that they might diminish the drug, why the molecules compete for the same receptors.
Now Pix if you want to load your gun and pay Russian roulette well you can as well as others but the consequences are for those who have the answers thru osmosis.
If you are stating that there is no deffintive study you are correct. No one will probably ever fund it. Common sense even more than logic says don't do it.
best c
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wow, this all is very informative...
sounds like I definitely won't want to play that game of chance to mix PM with my birth control pills.
How about taking stuff like fenugreek and fennel with birth control? Is that still ok? !?
hi bd
The answer is no one will ever sponsor this type of study. They cost money....what's the incentive. You know there are some plant estrogens in your diet but large amounts of fenugreek, clover, fennel which are all estrogenic can compromise your BC.
IF I were using BC control I would not use large quantities of Fenugreek, fennel etc.
I would not even use small quantitys of PM.
The idea is not to get pregnant right?
C
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Thanks Carla I mostly agree with you. I wouldn’t say anything is definitive though, if it was definitive we would have a much better understanding and would not be having this conversation.
In theory it makes sense that the 1000 times weaker phytoestrogens would interfere with the estrogen not enabling it to bond to the receptors.
Though in recent research with woman on tamoxifen as well as phytoestrogens it was found that there were still efficacious amounts of estrogen in their blood work. This is counter-intuitive, but it seems they may not compete, it’s even possible that they could be used successfully along side each other. For example hot flushes are reduced while woman are on phytoestrogens as well as the tamoxifen. In fact this is a line of research that is currently being developed, so perhaps one day soon we will have an actual answer on the effects of estrogens and phytoestrogens.
It makes perfect sense that a doctor would advice to be wary of phytoestrogens while on an estrogen based medication if they were not aware of any literature stating otherwise. A doctor wouldn’t say “sure go ahead we don’t know what will happen but try it”. Of course not, that would be irresponsible. Though not because it is necessarily dangerous, just not understood.
I have heard of plenty of woman that are on birth control whilst taking phytoestrogens, granted isoflavones are much more potent than lignans, so it depends on the source to begin with, but some woman do not even think about the interaction it could possibly have until somebody else brings it up. By that time they may already have been taking phytoestrogens for sometime without having adverse effects.
How often do you hear in medicine, "we don't know why it works, it just does..."?
Hi Pix
Yes there will be circulating estradiol in the blood work. Phytoestrogens don't inhibit synthesis just block them from working in the receptors.
Aromatase inhibitors influence synthesis.
c
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With so many people self medicating it is hard to control, but isn't it possible that the correct dosage of a phytoestrogen would not inhibit synthesis of estradiol?
Of the two estrogen receptors, phytoestrogens has a preferential binding to Erβ. While estradiol binds well to both estrogen receptors, ERα and ERβ. This suggests that different forms of estrogen can work alongside each other depending on their preferred receptor.
