[SweetO]

So, from day 10 to 14 before ovulation:  Forskolin, Hyaluronic pill, and a bit of progesterone , right? 



Question though: will using progesterone cause any delay on menstruation, or could happen? I use PC (pea size) from day 15 to 23 during luteal. This way my period is always on time. If I use until day 26 or more, my cycle turns out in 40 days lol.


HPA axis is correlated to breast growth pathway?!!   Duh I need to get serious on reducing inflammation and sleep hygiene, yikes!

[Lotus]

So, from day 10 to 14 before ovulation:  Forskolin, Hyaluronic pill, and a bit of progesterone , right? 



Question though: will using progesterone cause any delay on menstruation, or could happen? I use PC (pea size) from day 15 to 23 during luteal. This way my period is always on time. If I use until day 26 or more, my cycle turns out in 40 days lol.


HPA axis is correlated to breast growth pathway?!!   Duh I need to get serious on reducing inflammation and sleep hygiene, yikes!

Hi Sweets, 

Stick with day 15 to 23 pea size progesterone cream, definitely don't need a 40 day cycle. The hypothalamus and anterior pituitary sense signaling from follicle and luteinizing hormones when levels change, in other words a negative feedback mechanism. Take for instance high levels of estrogen are released from FSH around mid Follicular (day 7) but because the hypothalamus picks up this (negative feedback reaction) from the ovaries it lowers the production of estrogen, it comes back up around day 14 and gets stimulated by LH and Inhibin, pretty cool huh, that's another negative feedback reaction. These specific cycle days are not exact, as no two cycles are alike. 

So Sweets, are you having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep?. I want to help you find a specific plan that best fits your needs. 

[SweetO]

So, from day 10 to 14 before ovulation:  Forskolin, Hyaluronic pill, and a bit of progesterone , right? 



Question though: will using progesterone cause any delay on menstruation, or could happen? I use PC (pea size) from day 15 to 23 during luteal. This way my period is always on time. If I use until day 26 or more, my cycle turns out in 40 days lol.


HPA axis is correlated to breast growth pathway?!!   Duh I need to get serious on reducing inflammation and sleep hygiene, yikes!

Hi Sweets, 

Stick with day 15 to 23 pea size progesterone cream, definitely don't need a 40 day cycle. The hypothalamus and anterior pituitary sense signaling from follicle and luteinizing hormones when levels change, in other words a negative feedback mechanism. Take for instance high levels of estrogen are released from FSH around mid Follicular (day 7) but because the hypothalamus picks up this (negative feedback reaction) from the ovaries it lowers the production of estrogen, it comes back up around day 14 and gets stimulated by LH and Inhibin, pretty cool huh, that's another negative feedback reaction. These specific cycle days are not exact, as no two cycles are alike. 

So Sweets, are you having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep?. I want to help you find a specific plan that best fits your needs. 

Yes I struggle a lot with sleeping since I was a kid. Though, when I developed Anxiety disorder and later on depression, sleeping has become a challenge. I take mirtazapine since 2015, it's an antidepressant. It helps with sleeping but I cannot go more than 15mg: 30mg or 45 mg doses indeed work, more relaxed, but it activates ghrelin, so ... when I was 44 kg I needed the extra weight but now I am 63kg I think adding weight ain't a good idea lol, I'm petite. 

So I take mirtazapine 15mg with magnesium. I take magnesium midday 100mg and before bed 100mg. Helps a lot, but if I don't take both nothing works to fall asleep. And then the drama comes next morning hahaha, I feel like a truck hit me really hard so "brain fog" stays with me a couple of hours. I work out the in the morning (two hours after waking up) and helps as well. I used to go to the gym at 9PM until last year and I think it aggravated the whole sleep mess, so this year I have been focusing on this: Sleeping better.

Lotus, it's doable to regulate HPA axis therefore my T levels get better through diet, supplements and sleep?

[Lotus]

Hi Sweets, 

Apologies for the late response, we have a lot in common lol. I've taken mirtazapine for a sleep disorder too and had the same issue waking up the next morning and weight gain. I was recommended to try Trazodone which is similar to mirtazapine, some say the side effects are the same, in my case I didn't get the mirtazapine hangover and hunger from hell, the change really helped me though, talk to your doctor…see what they think. ? Have you tried melatonin to help fall asleep? 

But seeing you describe depression, anxiety, trouble sleeping and having pcos makes me suspect cortisol related issues mixed with pcos. Turns out androgens, insulin, cortisol play havoc on pcos. High cortisol levels can mimic pcos symptoms too. Don't let the title of the science article throw off, of you read the entire article the talk about lean subjects versus obese subjects, so there's differences to productions rates and metabolic rates. The main point being is how cortisol could be the main culprit behind your pcos, ance, sleep disturbance, weight gain, fatigue, etc...this of course is just my observation, fwiw.

 
Altered cortisol metabolism in polycystic ovary syndrome: insulin enhances 5alpha-reduction but not the elevated adrenal steroid production rates
"The changes in 5alpha-R, 11beta-HSD1, and 20alpha/beta-HSD enzyme activities observed in PCOS may contribute to the increased production rates of cortisol and androgens, supporting the concept of a widespread dysregulation of steroid metabolism." 
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14671189/

[SweetO]

Hey, Lotus!


Melatonin helps me but at some point I get some kind of tolerance with it, though, I never have taken more than 5mg. I think Natrol sells 10mg, but I have never looked into the melatonin's properties and maximum dosage either. I began taking it cause I saw it helped with jet lag and I take it when I have to travel for work and there is some jet lag involved. 

Mirtazapine for me is been a life saver regarding to sleeping. But I do know I have to be more "strict" with myself and I cannot be thinking in legal issues right before bed, which is my biggest mistake I think. When I am off from work (this is why I love summer, 25 days straight with no legal dramas in my mind lol) my sleep improves quite a lot, so I bet these thoughts have a lot of influence in my metabolism. My mom keeps telling me to shut down the laptop and the cellphone before having dinner but I pay 0 attention. I will have to change my mindset indeed.

Also, I am researching a lot about Reishi. Damn, it is a really potent adaptogen! It helps too with controlling blood sugar so I guess it has effects on insulin spikes as well. 

I ordered in liquid form and I plan to take with it Zinc. My plan is to take both without any other supplement besides magnesium and HMB. I take HMB once a year to enhance my performance during sports. Usually for 16 weeks, no more.

Funny thing I haven't shared here though: last year I took HMB with Carnitine + and BCAAs during 20 weeks. In the first 8 weeks I was taking pueraria and using progesterone cream. I lost inches around my waist (almost 1"), grew my thighs 4cm  and grew my breasts 3 cm.  On Sunday while I was looking for some info around here you talked about exogenous ketones. And I realised why the magic happened   (I am stuck since then but hey! I haven't lost it haha)


OMG. Cortisol. Yes, it makes sense. I'm going to read the paper you posted. 

Thank you for all you do for us, my dear Lotus!

Have a good week ^^

[Lotus]

OMG. Cortisol. Yes, it makes sense. I'm going to read the paper you posted. 

Thank you for all you do for us, my dear Lotus!

Have a good week ^^

My pleasure, lots more to do too 

[SweetO]

Hello, dear Lotus:

I got some new supplements finally! Reishi liquid extract (took time to do research and find a good source of it, since you mentioned : + polysaccharide = + anti androgen. Mine is from Foodsporen, a company based in The Netherlands. It has 30% of it)

Now, I don't know how to structure my program.  The only thing I know is I want to combine Reishi with zinc for the next three months alone to see how I respond just using AAs. Other supplements I am taking Vit D (my blood test result was lame so I got VitD's prescription) and Magnesium currently.

So, as anti-androgens Reishi (half dose of the liquid extract to start ) and zinc 40mg during follicular phase and 15mg for luteal. 



Now, after three months I'd like to use some source of Estrogen and progesterone cream for luteal phase (PC seems to work fine on me so I'll stick to that as a P source) and cycle it all (question though: Do I need to cycle anti androgens too?)

So ... What Estrogen source is best when you have Adrenal PCOS / Subclinical Hypothyroid ? Seems Pueraria is great (tons of girls have got real results with it) but I recall you said in cis females is best to use with caution. I don't know how to proceed. 

Also, I would love to give a try forskolin + hyaluronic combo and see how it works.


Currently I am 36.81" and I'd like to be 38.97" for next summer (9 months ahead)

[Lotus]

Hello, dear Lotus:

Hello my good friend Sweets ,

Okay, 30% polysaccharides is good, the higher the polysaccharides the stronger anti-androgen. [/font]

Now, I don't know how to structure my program.  The only thing I know is I want to combine Reishi with zinc for the next three months alone to see how I respond just using AAs. Other supplements I am taking Vit D (my blood test result was lame so I got VitD's prescription) and Magnesium currently.

Can you share your blood test results with me please?, in pm if you prefer? I'll help structure the program with via pm.

So, as anti-androgens Reishi (half dose of the liquid extract to start ) and zinc 40mg during follicular phase and 15mg for luteal. 

So typically with PCOS you don't get LH (Luteinizing Hormone) surges, and ovulation doesn't take place because LH levels are at upper levels, and menses become irregular. So after your period ends is when you start reishi, and stop when you begin luteal phase. 

Now, after three months I'd like to use some source of Estrogen and progesterone cream for luteal phase (PC seems to work fine on me so I'll stick to that as a P source) and cycle it all (question though: Do I need to cycle anti androgens too?)

If you're on BCP and you can get HRT estradiol over PM and BCP i'd say use that first, if not, let the forskolin (pro-aromatase) do its thing with the hyaluronic acid (as described in earlier posts) and then use progesterone cream in luteal phase, yes…I would highly recommend using using a bioidentical progesterone cream when someone is progestin only combination BCP.

So ... What Estrogen source is best when you have Adrenal PCOS / Subclinical Hypothyroid ? Seems Pueraria is great (tons of girls have got real results with it) but I recall you said in cis females is best to use with caution. I don't know how to proceed.

There's no easy answer for this, meaning there's many factors to consider. If you have an imbalance with your thyroid hypothalamus or pituitary gland your hormones won't be able to send or receive feedback signals. Think about that for a sec or two, that means no hormones would get produced. 

I battle with my bringing T4 levels down having Hashimoto's because it runs too high, it's a struggle. But it throws my hormones and metabolism off. Main point here is to balance your thyroid first and foremost. 

Best estrogen source for subclinical clinical hypothyroidism and adrenal estrogen? My first thought thought is always "naturally"....that's your best source for estrogen, when that's not an option I'd go bioidentical estrogen, when that's not available then if chose phytoestrogens…Pueraria Mirifica @ 100 mg to 250mg per day during follicular phase…not to be combined with BCP.


Estrogen and Thyroid Relationship  https://thyroidadvisor.com/estrogen-thyr...ationship/

If there are any issues with your hypothalamus, pituitary gland or thyroid, it can result in an imbalance in the hormones involved in this system, including T3 and T4.

Also, I would love to give a try forskolin + hyaluronic combo and see how it works.

This is a good idea

Currently I am 36.81" and I'd like to be 38.97" for next summer (9 months ahead)

Seems reasonable ?

[Lotus]

Hi Breastnexus, I want to share some information I've been researching on PCOS and how it relates to a specific enzyme called 11beta-HSD1. 

So basically: "The 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1 (11β-HSD1) enzyme converts cortisone to cortisol and participates in the regulation of glucocorticoid levels in tissues."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30877174/

I shared some interesting insights in September with my good friend Sweets (info below) on cortisol and PCOS. So I've come to understand PCOS green lights more cortisol and androgens production, that's bad news pcos sufferers, one glaring obstacle is now dealing with insulin resistance (e.g
 weight gain followed by androgen production). 

Focusing on one aspect of PCOS which is the 11β-HSD1 enzyme and came up with an Herbal solution of EGCG (Epigallocatechine-3-gallate)…as you would find in green tea extract, or a stand alone supplement in itself. Btw, EGCG inhibits androgens too. I'll attach the literature following this post. In the study using EGCG 3.749 mg dried tea leaves per ml were used. You gotta make your green tea extract have the highest EGCG percentage. Don't mistake EGCG for the polyphenols or Catechins (which are important) in Green tea extracts. I've seen EGCG as high 70%, it's listed on the supplemental facts label each supplement bottle. 

Hi Sweets,

But seeing you describe depression, anxiety, trouble sleeping and having pcos makes me suspect cortisol related issues mixed with pcos. Turns out androgens, insulin, cortisol play havoc on pcos. High cortisol levels can mimic pcos symptoms too. Don't let the title of the science article throw off, of you read the entire article the talk about lean subjects versus obese subjects, so there's differences to productions rates and metabolic rates. The main point being is how cortisol could be the main culprit behind your pcos, ance, sleep disturbance, weight gain, fatigue, etc...this of course is just my observation, fwiw.


Altered cortisol metabolism in polycystic ovary syndrome: insulin enhances 5alpha-reduction but not the elevated adrenal steroid production rates
"The changes in 5alpha-R, 11beta-HSD1, and 20alpha/beta-HSD enzyme activities observed in PCOS may contribute to the increased production rates of cortisol and androgens, supporting the concept of a widespread dysregulation of steroid metabolism."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14671189/

Expression of 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 1 and 2 in subcutaneous adipose tissue of lean and obese women with and without polycystic ovary syndrome

Abstract

Objective: To investigate the expression of 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11beta-HSD) type 1 and 2 and hexose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (H6PDH) mRNA in subcutaneous abdominal tissue from lean and obese women with and without polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), and to investigate the association between these enzymes and different measures of insulin sensitivity.

Design: Cross-sectional study.

Subjects: A total of 60 women, 36 women with PCOS, 17 lean (lean PCOS, LP) and 19 obese (obese PCOS, OP) and 24 age- and weight-matched control women, 8 lean (lean controls, LC) and 16 obese (obese controls, OC). Subcutaneous adipose tissue was collected from the abdomen. Peripheral insulin sensitivity was assessed by the euglycemic hyperinsulinemic clamp and determined as glucose disposal rate and insulin sensitivity index. Whole-body insulin sensitivity was calculated using homeostasis model assessment insulin resistance index. Body composition was evaluated by dual X-ray absorptiometry. Adipose mRNA expression of leptin and adiponectin were determined by real-time PCR.

Results: Polycystic ovary syndrome (P<0.05) and obesity (P<0.05) were independently associated with increased expression of 11beta-HSD1 mRNA. The subgroups LP and OC had increased 11beta-HSD1 and 11beta-HSD2 mRNA expression compared with LC (P<0.05, P<0.05). There were no effects of PCOS or obesity on 11 beta-HSD2 or H6PDH mRNA expression. Decreased peripheral insulin sensitivity (P<0.001) and increased upper body fat distribution (P<0.01) were associated with increased expression of 11beta-HSD1, but neither 11beta-HSD2 nor H6PDH.

Conclusion: Polycystic ovary syndrome and obesity are independently associated with increased expression of 11beta-HSD1. This may lead to increased conversion of cortisone to cortisol in the peripheral adipose tissue and subsequently increased glucocorticoid activity. Decreased peripheral insulin sensitivity and central obesity was associated with increased expression of 11beta-HSD1.

Green tea and one of its constituents, Epigallocatechine-3-gallate, are potent inhibitors of human 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1
Jan Hintzpeter et al. PLoS One. 2014.
Free PMC article
Show details

Full text links
Cite

Abstract
The microsomal enzyme 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1 (11β-HSD1) catalyzes the interconversion of glucocorticoid receptor-inert cortisone to receptor- active cortisol, thereby acting as an intracellular switch for regulating the access of glucocorticoid hormones to the glucocorticoid receptor. There is strong evidence for an important aetiological role of 11β-HSD1 in various metabolic disorders including insulin resistance, diabetes type 2, hypertension, dyslipidemia and obesity. Hence, modulation of 11β-HSD1 activity with selective inhibitors is being pursued as a new therapeutic approach for the treatment of the metabolic syndrome. Since tea has been associated with health benefits for thousands of years, we sought to elucidate the active principle in tea with regard to diabetes type 2 prevention. Several teas and tea specific polyphenolic compounds were tested for their possible inhibition of cortisone reduction with human liver microsomes and purified human 11β-HSD1. Indeed we found that tea extracts inhibited 11β-HSD1 mediated cortisone reduction, where green tea exhibited the highest inhibitory potency with an IC50 value of 3.749 mg dried tea leaves per ml. Consequently, major polyphenolic compounds from green tea, in particular catechins, were tested with the same systems. (-)-Epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) revealed the highest inhibition of 11β-HSD1 activity (reduction: IC50 = 57.99 µM; oxidation: IC50 = 131.2 µM). Detailed kinetic studies indicate a direct competition mode of EGCG, with substrate and/or cofactor binding. Inhibition constants of EGCG on cortisone reduction were Ki = 22.68 µM for microsomes and Ki = 18.74 µM for purified 11β-HSD1. In silico docking studies support the view that EGCG binds directly to the active site of 11β-HSD1 by forming a hydrogen bond with Lys187 of the catalytic triad. Our study is the first to provide evidence that the health benefits of green tea and its polyphenolic compounds may be attributed to an inhibition of the cortisol producing enzyme 11β-HSD1.

[SweetO]

Hello, dear Lotus

Thanks for this goldmine information. I don't know why but green tea always show up as a great supplement for different purposes.

If I do recall well, the brand Nature's Answer has green tea in its liquid form with high polyphenols and catechins. I'll have to look it up again.