[Nami27]

I'm trying to keep it simple and grow about 2 cup sizes. I tried PM and want to steer clear of it because of the havoc it wreaked on my cycle.

I started 1200 mg of shatavari with 50% saponin.

Do I also need the fenugreek, red clover and Vitex?

[surferjoe2007]

I'm trying to keep it simple and grow about 2 cup sizes. I tried PM and want to steer clear of it because of the havoc it wreaked on my cycle.

I started 1200 mg of shatavari with 50% saponin.

Do I also need the fenugreek, red clover and Vitex?

Shatavari alone might be enough, but adding the other herbs would be better. You use either fenugreek or shatavari so you don't need both. You could take 1800 mg shatavari though if you want more with complicating things. You can avoid messing up your period by cycling PM (search forums for info), but I noticed from your other post that you had negative results with PM. That indicates that you may want to use vitex and avoid PM and red clover, at least for now.

If you want simple then the simplest way would be 1200-1800 mg shatavari with 50% saponins + 500 mg vitex (4 pills). Second simplest would be 1200-1800 mg shatavari with 50% saponins + 500 mg vitex + 320 mg saw palmetto extract (5 pills). After several months if you reach your goal, your hormones are better balanced, and you're still taking herbs for maintenance, then you could either add in red clover to balance out the vitex or stop the vitex. Or use PM + progesterone cream in place of red clover and vitex if at that time you want to grow more.

If you are in a hurry you could replace the vitex with progesterone cream right now (and still no PM nor RC). It is far stronger than vitex. But then there is a risk of overdoing it. Having your estrogen and progesterone levels tested is the only way to tell for sure if you need a lot more progesterone.

[Nami27]

Ok I'll do the vitex and saw palmetto. As for progesterone cream, how do you measure it, I mean a capsule is a finite dose every time with creams one can't really be sure it's the same amount each time.

[surferjoe2007]

You can use a measuring spoon.

[rateset]

What would you suggest to do for a cleanse? Is one week enough?

[surferjoe2007]

What would you suggest to do for a cleanse? Is one week enough?

If you mean to stop taking herbs to get them out of your system, I think a week is plenty. If you want to clean your liver and so forth you can use 6 tsp. rice bran or 1 tsp. dry turmeric or 5 tsp fresh turmeric (which is much milder tasting than dry). That I think may take at least 2-3 weeks, or taking it forever is nice to keep getting the quality antioxidants. Or eating large amounts of yellow curry and brown rice daily, but you might get sick of that. Chia and spirulina might be options too but I'm not sure about the amount so you could get shorted if we guess wrong.

[rateset]

I have been doing some reading about progesteron and partly it totally makes sense:

The majority of natural breast enhancement products on the market work by increasing your estrogen levels. Herbs do this, so does Pueraria Mirifica. And both of these are effective methods of natural breast enhancement, but will not be effective on their own for estrogen dominant women.
For estrogen dominant women, it is progesterone, not estrogen, that is key, both for balancing your hormones and for natural breast enhancement. This is because progesterone acts as a sort of antagonist to estrogen. Both are needed but too much of one – usually estrogen – results in an imbalance.
Your breasts needs progesterone as well as estrogen to grow. It is progesterone that activates estrogen receptors so that estrogen can bind to them. Progesterone is also the hormone responsible for building up fat stores in the breast.



But I am not sure what to think about this:

For the secret of breast development let's go to the beginning of a woman's becoming a woman - puberty. Just before the onset of menstruation a gals hormones begin to churn. Of that hormonal mix, the most important stimulator of breast size is progesterone. Estrogen has little if anything to do with increasing breast fat stores. If estrogen had anything to do with bigger breasts then women on birth control pills would all have large full breasts. (Estrogen though is responsible for fat gain from the belly button down). The body builds up fat in the breasts in response to preparing for pregnancy in order to provide fat for the baby's diet where fat is so important it makes up 32% of breast milk! Increasing the fat stores in the breast is governed by progesterone.
http://www.totalityofbeing.com/Frameless...tShape.htm

Is it true that estrogen stores (mainly) fat below belly and progesteron in breasts??

[EllaC]

I have been doing some reading about progesteron and partly it totally makes sense:

The majority of natural breast enhancement products on the market work by increasing your estrogen levels. Herbs do this, so does Pueraria Mirifica. And both of these are effective methods of natural breast enhancement, but will not be effective on their own for estrogen dominant women.
For estrogen dominant women, it is progesterone, not estrogen, that is key, both for balancing your hormones and for natural breast enhancement. This is because progesterone acts as a sort of antagonist to estrogen. Both are needed but too much of one – usually estrogen – results in an imbalance.
Your breasts needs progesterone as well as estrogen to grow. It is progesterone that activates estrogen receptors so that estrogen can bind to them. Progesterone is also the hormone responsible for building up fat stores in the breast.



But I am not sure what to think about this:

For the secret of breast development let's go to the beginning of a woman's becoming a woman - puberty. Just before the onset of menstruation a gals hormones begin to churn. Of that hormonal mix, the most important stimulator of breast size is progesterone. Estrogen has little if anything to do with increasing breast fat stores. If estrogen had anything to do with bigger breasts then women on birth control pills would all have large full breasts. (Estrogen though is responsible for fat gain from the belly button down). The body builds up fat in the breasts in response to preparing for pregnancy in order to provide fat for the baby's diet where fat is so important it makes up 32% of breast milk! Increasing the fat stores in the breast is governed by progesterone.
http://www.totalityofbeing.com/Frameless...tShape.htm

Is it true that estrogen stores (mainly) fat below belly and progesteron in breasts??

Everytime I read this article I get out the progesterone cream I wont lie..
Maybe it comes down to just what our particular circumstance requires which determines if E will make us grow or P..
For me I only had the option of doing blood tests which they say Is unreliable but my body type fits the mold of low estrogen. But in this day and age how can anyone be estrogen deficient with all the artificial xenoestrogens floating around..

But sorry il leave you in surfers hands
Need to get myself some rice bran too. ITs just hard to find in my country bugger it.

[surferjoe2007]

Is it true that estrogen stores (mainly) fat below belly and progesteron in breasts??

Not quite
Estrogen + progesterone - testosterone => breasts
Estrogen - progesterone => butt
Estrogen - progesterone - testosterone => thighs. I think. Not sure. But saw palmetto extract is popular for lowering testosterone and for the thighs.

So estrogen by itself puts it in the butt, but progesterone moves it from the butt to the chest.

Since excessive amounts of estrogen can lower progesterone and vice versa, it is possible to shrink the breasts with way too much of either without the other.

Plus there may be many other bottlenecks, such as lack of fat as the most obvious one, lack of the nutrients found primarily in whole grains and seeds, lack of vitamin D, lack of thyroid hormone, etc.

[rateset]

thanks for your answer!

which progesterone cream would you recommend? The one from Source Naturals is easy to find and cheap, is that a good one?