[christinaratnasari]

Hello everyone! I'm a lurker on this wonderful forum for a while now and you all have helped me so much with your experience and knowledge! In the past five months I've increased from a large C cup to a fitting F cup, and I'm still experiencing growing pains so I'd like to think there is more to come. I will share my journey and document future progress in this thread.

About me: 23 yo/ 5'7/ 120lb/ Asian&European/ biological female. I'm moderately active (though not so much in quarantine), and have a slim build. My upper body looks slightly smaller in proportion to my lower body. I don't seem to experience estrogen dominance before I started NBE, but I suspect that my androgen levels are high (oily skin, hair loss, anxiety, etc.)

Measurements:

February: underbust 69, bust 83

April: underbust 71, bust 87

July: underbust 70, bust 91

I've also gained a bit of weight, probably 4-5lb

First program: PM only

I reacted to PM after a few days and grew about 1.5 cm (could be temporary swelling), but it did have an effect on me. My breasts were tingly and heavy. It stopped working after 2 weeks, and even caused shrinking.

Second program: PM, PC, fish oil, MSM, VitC, white peony

This program was pretty successful. I got some spotting symptoms while only on PM, so I thought the P:C ratio was wrong and incorporated PC. It worked wonders for me, and my breasts were so painful for an entire month I couldn't even touch them. The routine for this program is pretty simple:

• PM 250mg, twice daily
• fish oil 1g, twice daily
• PC before bed
• MSM 1.5g, twice daily
• VitC 1g, after waking up

I incorporated these supplements one by one, to make sure that my body actually reacts to each one of them. Among all, I found white peony and MSM to be the most useful ones. Without white peony my eyebrows grew like wild grass, and MSM single-handedly brought a visible growth spurt in April. I've gained 6cm from this program, but when I reached 88-89cm I feel less tingling sensations and my progress slowed down a lot, so I switched program.

Current program: BO, BO nipple cream, fish oil, MSM, VitC, high protein diet, (sometimes reishi), (sometimes L-arginine)

I get instant, strong tingles after taking BO, should have done it earlier! I replaced white peony with reishi because it's not estrogenic, though I haven't thoroughly experimented on whether I react differently to WP and RS while on BO. My body temperature is normally 98.4 - 98.9. I've noticed that after a hot shower I immediately get strong growing pains, and when I set the AC too low, the tingles disappear almost simultaneously. So temperature definitely matters for BO. If your natural body temperature is low, simply wear more clothes! I did that and it worked for me.

• Swanson BO 250mg, twice daily, 2 pills every time (I'm still experimenting on dosage, and will talk about it in a separate post)
• BO nipple cream: keep it on for 12 hours
• fish oil: 1g, twice daily
• MSM: 1.5g, twice daily
• VitC: 1g, after waking up
• high protein diet: Mix protein powder with plain greek yogurt (30g protein in one cup), drink at least 1.5L water, plenty of fresh fruits for detox and HGH/IGF-1, limited carbs (low GI), wakame soup twice a week (supplement iodine)
• L-arginine: newly added, not sure about its mechanism and effects yet

Here's a general summary of my journey so far. I will later post more about why I decided to add/take out some ingredients, and stuff I noticed/theories I had while experimenting with all the supplements. Please let me know what you think! Happy growth everyone " alt="" title="">

Congratulation for your achievement! " alt="" title=""> " alt="" title="">

[surferjoe2007]

Dear Surferjoe,

I have placed the order for some items, just need to clarify a few things:

1. What is the purpose of rice bran? Since I am already taking seeds, will it not be a lot of fibre to digest? I eat wheat flour roti and rice every day.

2. What purpose does kelp serve? If it is iodine, then I put quite a bit of salt in my food daily so do I need to still take it?

3. Do the seeds need to be organic or does conventional have the same nutritional value?

4. Someone who is an A cup, when do they start taking the herbs (in light of the nutrition program),..... Will I start taking the herbs after 2 months or 6 months or in between the nutrition program? 

5. Is there a journey that is recorded on this forum by someone who was a small cup, followed the nutrition program, and then the herbs so I can see what their timeline was and know what to expect? 

Thankyou " alt="" title="">

1.  Oil and water soluble antioxidants which are hard to get from any other food.  Turmeric and blue green algae are all I can remember, and it takes a lot of those strong tasting options.  Besides that rice bran has lots of relevant vitamins and minerals.  Yes it’s a lot of fiber which is all the more reason to ease into the foods if your stomach isn’t used to fiber and so on.

2.  Iodine mostly, may have some other trace minerals.  Iodized salt might be enough.  Sea salt or etc has insufficient iodine.

3.  Most of the time I can only find nutritional data on conventional foods so any little bit of extra nutrients from organic is a bonus, but not essential.  I don’t remember exactly but I think organic is only a teensy bit more nutritious.

4.  It doesn’t hurt to start the herbs right away unless they are giving you hormonal problems.  But you might see results right away or it might take 6 months to get results or results may be slower or anything in between.  If you are on a tight budget you may want to wait on herbs, otherwise sooner is fine.  Regardless I wouldn’t mess with too much PM or PC until you confirm growth.  A hormonal imbalance from excessive PM might even make you shrink, and this could delay results even longer until your body is able to fix it.

5.  Not sure.  Everyone tends to customize it and add in their own different things, with repeated changes, so it’s hard to say what did what when.

For nbe in general a cup size takes around 3 weeks to a year, most commonly 3-4 months.  Nutritious foods typically take several months to kick in and at minimum a month or two.  Growth tends to be most rapid at first and then tapers off.  IMO when starting from a full A you might get immediate results but be patient for at least 4 months before you wonder if something is wrong.  After that (a cup size after 4 months for example) I’m guessing an aggressive program might grow a cup size every 2 months and then get slower as you approach F or G cup then stop.  But Google a bra sizing guide due to all the myths out there.  That’s just very large not super huge like it might sound.  6-7” bigger than the band.

[nwyori]

So many helpful new posts here!!

Hey biggiwant, I'd recommend that you get on birth control to help with your PCOS, ask your doctor which brand works for you! Mitosis is your cells duplicating. The effects of P and E are actually too complicated, as is the endocrine system, but it is E and the growth hormones that mainly cause breast development. You can refer to the images posted on page 2. As for the nature of BO, I'm still not sure... The hormones in it should depend on when the cow is slaughtered, because the bovine estrous cycle looks kinda like human's, with ups and downs in E and P levels. It also matters whether the cow is pubertal or has already reproduced. Surferjoe, do you know anything about this?

This cycle: I have been consistent with the program, and added in noogling just because I had more time this week. And I got results! Today I measured at 93-94cm. I have been very anxious and depressed though, and it is definitely because of the BCP (300 micrograms of progestin, 3mcg E).

I think it's a good idea to take BO with BCP because it sends your body into an artificial luteal mode with raised body temperatures. Still not sure what Miss Ellen meant by 'letting the follicles grow’, because BCP suppresses LH and FSH, so the follicles cannot grow past the third stage to have the estrogen-producing layers (theca and granulosa). And of course BCP won't let ovulation happen, so a corpus luteum (releasing P and E) will not form. So my question is: if on BCP, what is the point of starting to take BO on day 12? This should only work for natural cycles. Does anyone have ideas on this? 

[surferjoe2007]

As for the nature of BO, I'm still not sure... The hormones in it should depend on when the cow is slaughtered, because the bovine estrous cycle looks kinda like human's, with ups and downs in E and P levels. It also matters whether the cow is pubertal or has already reproduced. Surferjoe, do you know anything about this?

I don’t know many details about BO.  I would have presumed they mix it all together in a bin, but I have no idea.

[biggiwant]

Hi, Nwyori.

1. I desire to know that mitosis is caused in the luteal, but why are you see your growing in your follicular??

2. And my second question is...

I sometimes see some swelling in my luteal,

but they go shrunk instantly after my menstruation starting.

Do you experience the same results like me?

After menstruation start, and day 1 of the cycle, your swelling has gone? " alt="" title="">

I've been  disappointed in every time my starting cycle.(So far 4 times).

I asked questions in several places on this forum, but I never received an answer.

3. When does mitosis happen?

In the follicular? or lutel phase?

Do you see your growth in your follicular?

I never feel the pain in my follicular phase.....

When I used PM, it caused hormonal imbalance, acne, very short cycle, etc.

I used it for very low dosage, then.

4. If I had diagnose PCOS before, is BCP neccessary?indispensable?

I had tried BCP 5 years ago.Because of PCOS.

I took "YAZ" for 2 years. And after I quit it, my swelling went.

Yes, I was happy during taking BCP long time.

But I heard BCP is artificial Progestrone pill. And it mess hormonal balance. Some BCP even increase T levels.

Do I really need to consult a doctor for NBE?

In Korea, doctors only prescribe without proper consultation.

I don't trust artificial hormone pills.

5. I want to know difference both PM and BO.

As the one who has both effects, please let us know how the effect of two are different .

PLEASE " alt="" title="">

(My motherlanguage isn't English.

So I'm having hard time to understanding many contents in this forum....

Inspite of Google translator, I can't understand about professional knowledge about NBE.

Would you explain this question? )

[biggiwant]

Dear surferjoe,

I don't know E hormone.

I think I'm the one of  the only women who don't respond to Estrogen.

people say E is the key. But too much E isn't good for NBE.

I "never" experienced swelling in my follicular phase.

Even I experienced shrinking very much after E taking.

I had tried PM 250mg per 1 day, before.

that is a very small dose. But I got more acne, shorter cycle, hormonal imbalance, more areola's hair,  etc.

And spearmint tea wasn't good at me. Herbs, either.

I ALWAYS didn't see any results in the follicular.

Sometimes I could see little effects in the luteal.

But ALWAYS that went to shrinking after menstruation starting.

Why do you think is the reason this is happening to me?
How do I know the right amont for me?
I'm upset about it.
Every time I used a way to increase estrogen, I shrank.
Even the more estrogens were increased, the more they shrank.
But, I have suffered PCOS! It is because of higher T and lower E. I don't think I have insulin resistance.


I'm so tired ....

[surferjoe2007]

Dear surferjoe,

I don't know E hormone.

I think I'm the one of  the only women who don't respond to Estrogen.

people say E is the key. But too much E isn't good for NBE.

I "never" experienced swelling in my follicular phase.

Even I experienced shrinking very much after E taking.

I had tried PM 250mg per 1 day, before.

that is a very small dose. But I got more acne, shorter cycle, hormonal imbalance, more areola's hair,  etc.

And spearmint tea wasn't good at me. Herbs, either.

I ALWAYS didn't see any results in the follicular.

Sometimes I could see little effects in the luteal.

But ALWAYS that went to shrinking after menstruation starting.

Why do you think is the reason this is happening to me?
How do I know the right amont for me?
I'm upset about it.
Every time I used a way to increase estrogen, I shrank.
Even the more estrogens were increased, the more they shrank.
But, I have suffered PCOS! It is because of higher T and lower E. I don't think I have insulin resistance.


I'm so tired ....

E needs other hormones and nutrients to cause breast growth, including progesterone.  Otherwise you can even shrink.  Estrogen is highest in follicular, progesterone is highest in luteal.  It sounds like you need P first.  Maybe after enough P you can add E later.  And the foods I’ve mentioned for your hormonal health and overall health.

[biggiwant]

Dear Joe,

Thank you for your reply!!

But I have some questions.

You said I need P first, right?

At first month, PC was helpful.

But the second month, PC decreased my size.

The more I apply it on my skin, the smaller my breasts got shrunk.

I don't know the proper amount for me.

You said I need P level first. But when I applied it for 2 months, only the first month was shown a temporary result.

I think PC wasn't absorbed through my skin at the second month, or P was too high.

But I didn't particularly apply more in the second month.

And why my swelling goes shrinking after a menstruation start?

Please explain this.....

I had to always see the swelling go away during menstruation. After menstruation is over, they become AA cup.
Is there a way to prevent swelling in the  follicular and menstruation phase?

[surferjoe2007]

Dear Joe,

Thank you for your reply!!

But I have some questions.

You said I need P first, right?

At first month, PC was helpful.

But the second month, PC decreased my size.

The more I apply it on my skin, the smaller my breasts got shrunk.

I don't know the proper amount for me.

You said I need P level first. But when I applied it for 2 months, only the first month was shown a temporary result.

I think PC wasn't absorbed through my skin at the second month, or P was too high.

But I didn't particularly apply more in the second month.

And why my swelling goes shrinking after a menstruation start?

Please explain this.....

I had to always see the swelling go away during menstruation. After menstruation is over, they become AA cup.
Is there a way to prevent swelling in the  follicular and menstruation phase?

Not sure.  Maybe you need PM+PC, or maybe you need something else entirely.  With AA cup especially you need to find what’s missing.  Because your body probably wants to be somewhere between a B and a D but it can’t for whatever reason and that leaves you at AA.  Try the nutritional tips in my sig for several months to address most issues.  Also during that time, keep added E and P low because otherwise you might accidentally worsen or create an imbalance in either direction (whether towards E or P).  Unless you have a hormone test confirming for sure that you need one, the other, or both.  Again it’s possible that the issue is entirely unrelated to E or P and you’re just getting temporary swelling from them.

[GrowGirl]

Dear Surferjoe,

I have been taking the items from the nutrition list for 3 days.

I just need to clarify a few things:

1. Should I continue the nutrition program for a couple of months and then start with the herbs or should I start taking the herbs alongside? what is better? ( I am an A cup and my goal is to become at least an E cup)

2. I have access to both Shatavari powder and Shatavari capsules, which form is better?

3. I have fenugreek seeds (I can grind it), and I have access to fenugreek capsules, which form is better? Is fenugreek safer than Shatavari as its a common household item?

4. Is fresh mint as effective as saw palmetto capsules?

5. <meta charset="utf-8">Is red clover better than PM if I have access to it?

6. If I take Shatavari/Fenugreek, mint/saw palmetto, PM, and PC, will my hormones become adversely affected? 

7. Could you please explain what the purpose of the following is:

1. Shatavari/fenugreek
   
2. saw palmetto or mint 
   
3. PM or red clover
   
4. PC
   
5. Massage
   

Thankyou " alt="" title="">