[wishgranted]

Hi Isabelle,

The info you post here is great. Whew, growing boobs is serious work. Very high maintenance as your byline says

Question: I'm not on a "set" program yet as I'm still researching and learning. But I have started to add the gelatin, MSM and SP to my "program".

I did feel "weird" as Beachbum write in your post # 4 (and you conceded later) after adding MSM and SP. The "weird" feeling scared me a bit and I was thinking of not using MSM. (Wahaika recommeded Carlsons MSM. I'm taking a walmart brand of SP, but am looking for better.)

Also, Beachbum mentioned about "gasping" for breath. I've felt that yesterday, too, when I got up. Also, a little light headed, but just "strange" feeling. I didn't know what was causing these "symptoms". Are they normal? I did drink water (and pray) until it subsided.

You mention a anti-androgen cocktail (SP SNR PSO Java tea) 9 mg. Where do you get that?

One last thing, someone (was it you?) mentioned MSM powder on this thread. Can the capsule be busted open and sprinkled over food or added to shakes or does it have to be taken in the capsule form for max effect?

Thanks!

[beachbumbythesea]

Hi Wishgranted,

Yes SP mad me feel that way..I tried taking it at about 4-5pm instead but was getting a swelling feeling in my legs like adema..didnt like so I stopped taking SP...MSM has worked well for me and you should take it with vitc..I bought powder of both msm and vitc and I put straight in mouth and shoot it down with water..msm is bitter tasting so if I where you just take the caps..or if you want to open them up put them in your protein drink if you make them or just do the way I do..I rather do powder straight up I feel it maybe more effective but could be wrong just my own feeling...back to SP I am wondering if I even have antrogen problems cause anything I take anti androgen I feel weird...PM is working great for me so far for over all health but for the boobs I guess I will know more the longer I am on it..only on it for about a month now...I do plan on buying maca tomorrow..I want a bigger booty... maybe it will effect the boobs too..I usually get opposite effect on things..

Isabelle will def. have some kind of tea brew for you... she knows her herbs...

[Isabelle]

Hi Wishgranted,

I do recognise the feelings you and Susan describe from when I tried SP. But that was quite some time ago. Take out the SP, and journal the feelings. Only add SP if you notice androgen effects. I described this in the maca thread:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8422&pid=29052&highlight=signs#pid29052

I bought this
http://online.kruidvat.nl/product/51011/...l?token=-1
at Kruidvat, a Dutch high street drugstore chain. The formula is a lower priced alternative for Bional Prostalon. Prostalon has different names in different countries. Over here, it's called prostavit:
http://online.kruidvat.nl/product/49653/...l?token=-1
http://passionforhealthylivingshop.com/p...s.php?id=7

If you have MSM capsules, take the capsules. I buy powders, because they're cheaper, and less processed. But a powder from a capsule contains anticaking agents etc.

Many people don't like the taste of MSM, or collagen. I haven't bought them yet, because digestion breaks them down into nutritients that are already available in a good boobie diet. For collagen, there's an exception: silicic acid.
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=7660&pid=29983&highlight=silicic#pid29983

[Isabelle]

The most urgent goal for me now is getting my BMI from 26.5 to under 25. Even if that means sacrificing NBE gain. Health is more important, and I'm stuck in a downward spiral of craving carbs and too little high intensity exercise.

I have skipped hops for two days, and may add it in again because estrogen lowers cortisol. And I'm finally going to make the goat's rue batter now. That should also improve insulin sensitivity. Other good tips are here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_resistance
Check the bottom paragraph "Management". Also check vitamin D deficiency, and lower cortisol (by less stress, and maybe suppress cortisol with estrogen). Follow the link to omega-3 fatty acids, and dietary sources: chickens fed with greens and insects, free range cows, etc.

I will have to take it one step at a time, but I learned a lot from looking into hollygolightly's diet:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8718&pid=30476&highlight=fish+oil#pid30476
an into mocchaccino's questions:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8808
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8809

[Isabelle]

After two days off hops, I drank 1000 mg as tea yesterday evening. During the two days off, I did feel shoots behind my left nipple. My left breast is the bigger one.

After the two days off, the rash under my right elbow was less. Now, I see a few new bumps. So the hops causes the rash. Possibly because estrogen suppresses cortisol. But I don't have cortisol cream here. That would be the best test.

I also filled out Dr. Lee's hormone imbalance test. It has been posted in several places by Gogirlanime. The result that really stands out is testosterone deficiency, in the male section. That confirms my post of July 12th. I did see a new pimple on my left leg this morning. So I will probably keep hops at 1000 mg for now.
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8817&pid=30937&highlight=test#pid30937
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8768&pid=30699&highlight=test#pid30699

[Isabelle]

Soonenough got me thinking by posting this question:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8830&pid=31116&highlight=yogurt#pid31116
Some herbs are most effective on the skin or under the tongue, and others, like PM, need processing by the liver.

So I wondered in which category hops is. I took 3000 mg in my tea yesterday, 2 hours after dinner, and today, I feel... nothing
Eve M took hops in yoghurt, and I felt shoots when I took hops in my evening porridge. And now I read hops is more potent after digestion. It's on p. 181 of this book 'Bioactive compounds in foods', by John Gilbert and Hamide Z. Senyuva:
http://books.google.nl/books?id=-2myBYRAGogC&printsec=frontcover&dq=bioactive+compounds+in+foods&hl=nl&ei=HtkiTsSWNdCbOo_apfEO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=8-prenylnaringenin&f=false

So tonight, I'm making hops porridge again

[Isabelle]

I have been off fenugreek for 44 days now. Should start it again. The primary target now is fat loss around the abdomen, and besides goat's rue, fenugreek also helps against insulin resistance:
http://www.mediherb.com.au/pdf/8018.pdf
Gogirlanime also commented that fenugreeks helps too:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8871&pid=31206&highlight=fenugreek#pid31206
and that there is no evidence that topical goat's rue will be effective against insulin resistance:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8809&pid=31127&highlight=topically#pid31127

Fat around the abdomen, insulin resistance, sugar cravings, and high cortisol are all part of the same problem. A good explanation of what causes what is on pages 312 to 314 of the book "Complementary therapies and the management of diabetes and vascular disease" by Trisha Dunning:
http://books.google.nl/books?id=F6k_erVCInkC&pg=PA312&dq=insulin+resistance+trigonella+foenum+graecum&hl=nl&ei=2vcjTvrkJ4GcOvfztPEO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=insulin%20resistance%20trigonella%20foenum%20graecum&f=false
Oats is also listed in Table 14.2 as a remedy, besides fenugreek.

Yesterday, I split 2000 mg hops between tea and porridge. I felt no tingles (did feel the free testosterone, woo hoo), but this morning there is more to grab. I think I'm also putting on weight.

[Isabelle]

Just added 1000 mg of fenugreek to my 2000 mg hops & cereals porridge. Two weeks into the ramp up: I really need to up the pace if I want to try everything on the list for this ramp

I've been drinking this tea for 2 days:
http://www.pukkaherbs.com/tea-room/all-o...relax.html
This really bad cough is has been following me around for a week now. The relax tea is strong enough to soothe the irritation, it really is. But I don't know anything about ayurvedic logic. NBE-wise, the ingredients are an unusual cocktail of things that counteract or cancel each other. Maybe that's the logic: the NBE effects cancel out, and the other effect many NBE herbs seem to have in common, relaxation and sleep, adds up

[Isabelle]

I doubled the FG dose to 2000 mg today. In the morning, with milk. There's been a lot of good research since I first started using FG:

In addition to being a widely used galactogogue, fenugreek offers several metabolic benefits. Fenugreek improves insulin sensitivity. The effect is comparable with that of metformin:
http://medind.nic.in/iby/t09/i4/ibyt09i4p401.pdf
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10....0903490486

Fenugreek even helps in established diabetes, and may help in metabolic disorder:
http://www.aensionline.com/jasr/jasr/2007/1073-1083.pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.10...9/abstract

It improves endurance in exercise by increasing utilization of fatty acids as an energy source:
http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jnsv...7/_article

It even decreases cholesterol:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...1707002187

It cleanses the liver like milk thistle:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/j6h453qp20326401/
http://www.springerlink.com/content/jx1757808602037l/

It has anticancer properties:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...9707002360
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3095649/

It even increases growth hormone release - in rats
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.10...4/abstract

People with peanut allergy should stay away from fenugreek:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...4908016734

[Isabelle]

I felt shoots yesterday. Only during massage, and only in my bigger left breast, but still, shoots. That means my hops and fenugreek intake is high enough for now.

Before adding anything else, I want to balance hops and fenugreek. The latest hops-fenugreek program Wahaika put together was the one for hope. He advised her to take hops in at least equal amounts with fenugreek:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8387&pid=28766&highlight=hops#pid28766

So I'm aiming for 2000 mg hops, and a little less than 2000 mg fenugreek. Since I measure dried hops flowers as two tablespoons, and powdered fenugreek seed as an almost flat teaspoon, I will check again with the scale. I'm only on 1/6 of my three month ramp up, and it looks like I used more than 1/6 of the hops.