[Isabelle]

Yes Pansy Mae,

The doses of the 18th look like the best place to start. On the 12th, the tape day concluded a growth spurt of 8 cm (3 1/4 ") in three months and a week. So what I was doing then is better than all the changes over the holidays, and the irregular sleep, bad diet, and low exercise level of the party season.

[Pansy-Mae]

Hmmm... I don't know whether to send you a medal or send for the men in white coats!!

The Goats Rue tea is not exactly nice but I managed to drink it.

The Fenugreek in capsules is fine.

The Oats and Flax in a little milk with a sweetener was actually quite nice - I like porridge anyway and the flax didn't really notice.

The Hops is the most disgusting thing I've ever put in my mouth! How on earth do you manage to get that down you?? I had only one mouthful and couldn't even swallow that, and I've been coughing and choking all evening since.

[Isabelle]

Hi Pansy Mae,

Hops is disgusting, yes. But you were half way there: I put the hops together with the oat flakes and broken flax seed in the milk with sweetener. I use honey and raisins for sweetening. I dilute it with more milk and breakfast cereals until the hops taste is hardly noticeable.

[Isabelle]

I've been too busy to even make my third cup of goat's rue tea. I really need to be more consistent with my program.

I am not plagued by the "Why am I doing this?" feeling. Some people would say that's a consequence of lower doses. I'm not sure. It could just as well be a consequence of doing this for a while. NBE affects your feelings. I just wish I knew how

[Pansy-Mae]

Hi Isabelle
Well, last night I managed to create a concoction which allowed me to get a dose of hops down, but there is a downside.
To kill enough of the bitter taste and the horrible flaky mouthfeel, I melted 100g cooking chocolate to coat 3 days worth of hops, then mixed that with a tin of pears in syrup then poured a packet of QuickGel over it ( oh and added a couple of sweeteners!).
The downside is that that little lot adds up to about 376KCal per portion...bang goes any form of diet!!

Question: Is there any practical replacement for hops in your programme?

[Pansy-Mae]

I've been too busy to even make my third cup of goat's rue tea. I really need to be more consistent with my program.

I've been making three cups worth in one go first thing in the morning and then just putting the 2nd and 3rd cups in the microwave for a few seconds to reheat in afternoon and evening.

You've got to drink something during the day and this hardly takes any longer than getting a glass of water from the tap!

As for the lack of " Why am i doing this" feelings... (a) Don't knock it!!
(b) I know you've been playing with NBE longer than I, but in my experience it does seem to be affected by dose levels. It only takes me a short while on high dose to get those feelings and I only have to drop the dose for no more than a day or so for them to subside again.

[Isabelle]

Thank you Pansy-Mae,

For both the tips on the goat's rue tea (it will steep longer too, that's another advantage of your method) and for the relation between the dose and the uncertainty. I saw you wrote it before, and I recognize it. I was working on identity with my therapist this morning, and so far I have to bring three essential effects of my program into that discussion: it decreases the need to cross dress, stopping it brings some masculine traits back, at least for a couple of weeks, and the determination decreases and the worrying increases at higher doses.

As for hops, the only documented replacements are PM, licorice, and red clover. But both licorice and red clover contain as much phyto-progestins as phyto-estrogens, and red clover doesn't contain an anti-androgen, so the rest of the program would have to be adjusted.

I listed my phyto-estrogen herbs a few times, and although the list has grown longer over time, other than the above, there is no phyto-estrogen herb that I would really consider a tried and tested NBE option. Maybe soy, but then you have to monitor your diet every day to adjust your dose.

I just stopped worrying about the calories and the carbs: I add quite a bit of honey, raisins, and sweetened cereals to quench the bitterness of the hops, but my weight is under control, and my waist is slimming. The fenugreek in the program just takes care of that.

[Pansy-Mae]

Thank you Pansy-Mae,

My pleasure. Glad to be able to give something back

I was working on identity with my therapist this morning, and so far I have to bring three essential effects of my program into that discussion: it decreases the need to cross dress, stopping it brings some masculine traits back, at least for a couple of weeks, and the determination decreases and the worrying increases at higher doses.

In general terms, more than about 3 or 4 days on 3000mg PM starts me on the "why?" question. That same dose originally gave me headaches but that seems to have stopped now, so I have assume that I built up a tolerance to the chemicals if not to the secondary effects. I have to wonder then if the headaches stopped me getting the " Why?" question previously, because I was about 8months into PM before it happened for the first time, before that the headaches acted to cause me to lower the dose anyway.

I only have to drop to 2000mg for a day or two to get back on an even keel.

As for hops, the only documented replacements are PM, licorice, and red clover. But both licorice and red clover contain as much phyto-progestins as phyto-estrogens, and red clover doesn't contain an anti-androgen, so the rest of the program would have to be adjusted.

I'm still taking PM at 1000mg a day ( down from 2000mg) whilst I build up the new products in my system, I was planning to go down to 500mg over the weekend and then stop PM altogether next week sometime.

Of course I'm still on prescribed Finasteride for my prostate anyway, so I don't have to worry about anti-androgens, so I'm now wondering about keeping the low PM dose, with FG, GRT, oats and flax, plus maca. I haven't noticed any kind of negative effects at all in the last couple of days and I might just possibly be starting to see some sort of filling out, my wife commented this morning that they seem to be changing shape a bit, although it is definitely too soon to be sure.

I just stopped worrying about the calories and the carbs: I add quite a bit of honey, raisins, and sweetened cereals to quench the bitterness of the hops, but my weight is under control, and my waist is slimming. The fenugreek in the program just takes care of that.

I'm not sure about that bit ( for me). My weight has crept up by about 8-10lbs over the past year and its gone up 5lbs in the past 5 months alone, for sure. It isn't an awful lot in the grand scheme of things, but its only about 10 years since I was almost 20lbs lighter and its a trend I have to stop and preferably reverse before it gets out of hand. To add nearly 400Cal per day to my diet when I don't even want to eat, is not the way to deal with that!

[Isabelle]

Right, Pansy-Mae,

PM suppresses prolactin, so once you turn that around with enough GRT, the swelling should be noticeable by now

[32A - 35D]

Hey Isabelle.
Am trying to find out which menstrual Cycle am on. Just got AF around 10:55pm on 11 and today is the 13 so I would say that I started on the 11 of January. On December of 2011 thought i got it on the 12 too but it was in the morning so am not sure, could have had it on the 11 around 10pm and not know cuz saw AF after i took a bath in the morning of the 12 in December. January and December has 31 days so it make sense to me now why AF would come on same day. What cycle do you think am on? I hope it 28 but when I counted it said 24.