[peggy]

Plant-based or Phytoestrogens

Plant estrogens, are rich in hormone-modulating factors called phytoestrogens, many of which can actually help reduce harmful estrogen activity in the body, particularly related to reducing the growth and spread of cancer cells. However, there is emerging evidence that some phytoestrogens may, in fact, do the opposite, and cause negative effects similar to estrogenic chemicals — causing cancer and promoting their growth.

Harmful phytoestrogens

* Soy. Soy is the most estrogenic plant found in nature and promotes estrogenic activity that harms the body as much as synthetic xenoestrogens. The body recognizes the highly bioactive form of soy isoflavones (phytoestrogens) as harmful toxins that need to be neutralized and eliminated. Soy should be considered a drug given the way it disrupts your hormones. It actually suppresses progesterone concentrations in the body. Soy is heavily promoted to relieve menopausal symptoms (which are really estrogen dominant symptoms). It is now known that these vegetables work by competitively occupying the estrogen receptor sites on the cell membrane to prevent internal estrogen from exerting its effects on the cell. Those who have estrogen dominance may therefore experience relief of symptoms as phytoestrogens are many times weaker than the estrogen in our body. While phytoestrogens may relieve symptoms, you still do not rid your body of excess estrogen, the cause of your symptoms. It is far more beneficial to rid the estrogen from the receptor sites and replace them with progesterone. NEVER take soy isoflavones or soy as a supplement. For more info about soy, read my blog The Hidden Dangers of Soy. Fermented forms of soy like natto, soy sauce, tempeh, and miso do not have the same estrogenic properties and are ok to eat. Beware positive articles on soy. Most studies on soy are sponsored by grants from soy producers. This is why it is difficult to find negative information on soy. Soy is a cheap commodity that generates multibillion-dollar profits to soy manufacturers worldwide. Don’t fall prey to the hype.

* The most potent estrogenic plants, besides soy, are licorice and red clover. Avoid them. They both show potent progesterone-inhibiting properties. Studies show that all kinds of licorice are estrogenic. Cows fed red clover become infertile.

* No sunflower oil, safflower oil, cottonseed oil, or canola oil. These are all estrogenic. Use olive oil instead.

* Avoid hops (beer). It is very likely that the typical beer belly may be related to excess estrogenic activity in the body due to binge drinking. Alcohol also affects the liver’s ability to metabolize excess estrogen, so it builds up in the body.

* Similarly, avoid dong quai, damiana, verbena, and motherwort.

* Avoid black cohosh. It is used for relief of menopausal symptoms, but there are many reports of its cancer-promoting effects and liver-damaging effects after long-term use.

* Avoid tea tree oil. The NIH has found that tea tree products have estrogenic effects that stimulate growth of estrogen-sensitive breast cancer cells. Gynecomastia (enlarged breasts) in men and boys can be caused by the use of products containing tea tree oil.

Source: http://www.liveto110.com/estrogen-dominance-syndrome/

[EllaC]

Wow that makes for an interesting read! I wonder why fennel isn't in there?
Will you still take black cholosh?
Thanks for posting

[peggy]

No, going to stop black cohosh.

[EllaC]

No, going to stop black cohosh.

What will you substitute it with? Goats rue or Fenu?
I need to ask Lotus to have a squizzy for us as I'm not entirely sure how much phytoestrogen if any is in GR but its a definitely galactalogue and cause's swelling/tissue build.

[Lotus]

Nice post Peggy, we all need to know both sides, I would only suggest that there's always 2-3 sides to info out there. For instance the web site listed this info:

Progesterone acts as an antagonist to estrogen — it tones estrogen down. For example, estrogen stimulates breast cysts while progesterone protects against breast cysts. Estrogen enhances salt and water retention while progesterone is a natural diuretic. Estrogen has been associated with breast and endometrial cancers, while progesterone has a cancer preventive effect. Studies have shown that premenopausal women deficient in progesterone had 5.4 times the risk of breast cancer compared to healthy women.

I see some scientific research, I would say you could find as many or if not more opposing info posted out there. So when we make our decisions about what products to use you have to weigh out all of the research data you can find. And even then it's not a 100% guarantee, but it's great that you're taking the time to educate yourself and others, I sure appreciate it.

But great work as always

[peggy]

Ella, I am taking Fenu already in my herbal mix. I will eventually use it until the end of this cycle and then make another mix.

Lotus, I know there are many opposing infos out there. But I found multiple articles that soy is bad and also hops, especially when you are estrogen dominant.

I am not sure what to think about PM. I found just a few human studies where the woman took just 50mg (or max. 100mg) of PM per day for six months, which is a very low dose.

In human interventions, doses up to 50mg have been used in interventions with no significant reported side-effects[34][29] and doses in the range of 25-100mg in open-label studies lasting up to 6 months have failed to show any relevant toxic effects.[26][27]

Currently no significant side-effects associated with supplemental Pueraria Mirifica at the standard supplemental dosages

And this:

In an Ames test, it appears that Pueraria (Mirifica and Lobata) do not possess any direct mutagenic effects regardless of whether or not they are bioactivated via S9 (to mimic cellular metabolism), but both were slightly antimutagenic when mutations were induced by either benzo(a)pyrene or 2-(2-furyl)-3-(5-nitro-2-furyl)-acrylamide; lack of mutagenicitiy was seen with 300mg/kg oral ingestion in rats[62] although another study in male mice using higher doses of a water extract (600-800mg/kg, human equivalent dose of 96-128mg/kg) was able to induce a higher frequency of micronuclei formation, indicative of mutagenicity

Source: http://examine.com/supplements/Pueraria+mirifica/

I would love to take PM for all the other benefits (hair, skin etc) but I am not sure if it is really safe in higher dosages. What do you think, Lotus?

[Lotus]

No, going to stop black cohosh.

What will you substitute it with? Goats rue or Fenu?
I need to ask Lotus to have a squizzy for us as I'm not entirely sure how much phytoestrogen if any is in GR but its a definitely galactalogue and cause's swelling/tissue build.

Hi Ella,

Ive found it to be a phytoestrogen and astringent but I still trying to "verify" that and also regards to this statement- it enhances E-receptors by the way of stimulating the ovaries to produce E,

I'll let ya know!, but it could go either way on being a phytoestrogen.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7892287

[EllaC]

No, going to stop black cohosh.

What will you substitute it with? Goats rue or Fenu?
I need to ask Lotus to have a squizzy for us as I'm not entirely sure how much phytoestrogen if any is in GR but its a definitely galactalogue and cause's swelling/tissue build.

Hi Ella,

Ive found it to be a phytoestrogen and astringent but I still trying to "verify" that and also regards to this statement- it enhances E-receptors by the way of stimulating the ovaries to produce E,

I'll let ya know!, but it could go either way on being a phytoestrogen.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7892287

Thanks soo much Now you mention that re it stimulating the ovaries to produce E I recall I did see that once! Look forward to what you come up with

[EllaC]

Peggy are you considering taking PM?? Based on what information you and Lotus come up with?

[Lotus]

Ella, I am taking Fenu already in my herbal mix. I will eventually use it until the end of this cycle and then make another mix.

Lotus, I know there are many opposing infos out there. But I found multiple articles that soy is bad and also hops, especially when you are estrogen dominant.

I am not sure what to think about PM. I found just a few human studies where the woman took just 50mg (or max. 100mg) of PM per day for six months, which is a very low dose.

In human interventions, doses up to 50mg have been used in interventions with no significant reported side-effects[34][29] and doses in the range of 25-100mg in open-label studies lasting up to 6 months have failed to show any relevant toxic effects.[26][27]

Currently no significant side-effects associated with supplemental Pueraria Mirifica at the standard supplemental dosages

And this:

In an Ames test, it appears that Pueraria (Mirifica and Lobata) do not possess any direct mutagenic effects regardless of whether or not they are bioactivated via S9 (to mimic cellular metabolism), but both were slightly antimutagenic when mutations were induced by either benzo(a)pyrene or 2-(2-furyl)-3-(5-nitro-2-furyl)-acrylamide; lack of mutagenicitiy was seen with 300mg/kg oral ingestion in rats[62] although another study in male mice using higher doses of a water extract (600-800mg/kg, human equivalent dose of 96-128mg/kg) was able to induce a higher frequency of micronuclei formation, indicative of mutagenicity

Source: http://examine.com/supplements/Pueraria+mirifica/

I would love to take PM for all the other benefits (hair, skin etc) but I am not sure if it is really safe in higher dosages. What do you think, Lotus?

No I completely get it sweetheart, high doses of anything is just not a good idea, long term affects and all is not worth the risks. I'm guilty of doing the exact same thing, but I've learned that the hard way.

Instead concentrate on specific herbal actions, i.e. Tannins (astringent), prolactin source FG, fennel estrogenic source, ect.

So many others to choose from also 5 ar's too....


And of course suction and massage....