[Paloma]

Hi Carla,

Last november you answered a post of mine (here it is cut&paste):
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Hey Dory and Carla,

Why would maca and PM cancle each other out?

Thanks



carla
(no login)
Re: PM & MACA November 25 2009, 1:19 PM

This is very simple. They both contain compounds that are estrogenic. They compete for the same receptors.

Maca is considered an adaptogen meaning if you have too much estradiol it competes for the same receptors and moderates some of the effects of estradiol by blocking the actions of some of it. If estradiol is low it still locks into those receptors but has a mild estrogenic effect hence balancing effect.


When you take a strong estrogen like PM you do not want weak estrogens to compete with it because it dimishes efficacy.

PM has a complex dynamic built into it with many types of estrogens compounds.
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I just saw your answer, which I fully understand (thanks!), and now wondering if you have an opinion you could share:

According to an online test identifying a list of symptoms, I seem to fit the profile of someone who is "estrogen dominant" - but low in estrogen, just proportionally even lower in progesterone.

In this case, I'm wondering if the addition of maca to pm would actually be helpful for NBE, in that it might make sure that the estrogen and progesterone levels are balanced?

Since, if I understand what I've read in these forums correctly, it is a balanced hormonal state that causes breast enlargement, rather than necessarily having a HIGH level of estrogen - does this jive with what you know about it?

Or, does PM work for most women regardless of whether they are estrogen dominant to begin with?

Or, do we know if, for the 10% of women that don't react to PM, the problem is that they are estrogen dominant to begin with, so pm just causes the body to shut down estrogen production?

Hope you're able to advise, many thanks in advance.

Paloma

[carlaa1124]

Hello P


I do not believe maca would help. It is considered an adaptogen. PM is adaptagenic also at least in "estrogen systems".

I would not worry about it turning off estrogen production. The exception to this would be ingesting "wacko amounts of PM"

Right now the research is not there to giving you a number. We do know large quanities in animal can lower LH.

The people that do not respond for NBE ....there problem is most likely a receptor site insensitivity.....its just not understand.



You could indeed benefit with supplementing with a little progesterone.


Many diabetics have enough insulin but their body's can not use it.



c

[Paloma]

Ok, that helps, thanks.

[salome83]

Hey Paloma,

I am also using PM, I started with that Thanyaporn brand basically taking 3 a day. For the first month I used from day1-21 of my cycle. And my period got delayed for 15 days. then i reduced it to 2/day and for 1-15 days, i didn't experience any delayed period after. In total I used that brand for three cycle(three months from day1-15). I was also using Robust for that 3 months as well as noogling 2-3 times a week.
I was seeing some change definitely, but to be honest most of the growth was going away after my period, but still I think both of them made a difference.

However for the last 1.5-2 months I started using Anne Selene products. The cream is lil bit pricey, but the pills are ok in terms of price. That product is the real PM according to my experience I saw a lot bigger difference!! So far, I am over my period once and I didn't deflate after my period, I am waiting to see if I won't deflate after my second period. The cream is amazing, and they are very helpful with emails too.
I asked her about estrogen dominance(I had some syptoms too) and I can send you her answers if you are interested, she basically said if the PM is good quality it will correct for the estrogen dominance as well.
And she also said about the cream, for it to work, it needs to be good quality PM and the cream itself has to be micronized, she said if they are just mixing it without micronizing then it wouldn't be that much effective.

The cream has kigelia africana and something called like myrr bark in addition to PM, I checked and they are both ingredients of Talika serum(which is a quite good brand). Here is the website just incase you want to search yourself:
http://www.anne-selene.com/

Wish you good luck in your journey, just felt like I need to say my story, but of course everyone is different.
ps: You can also check this site http://www.puremiracleherbs.com/
this was second on my list after my research but I never tried it personally, i think i will continue with Anne Selene for a while.

Best!!

[Paloma]

Hey Salome, thanks for the reply.

I'm thrilled you're getting results, congratulations!

I have a few reservations about the brands you suggested: I don't like that they don't explicitly say how many miligrams they offer per capsule, whether or not it is farmed, and whether or not they add other herbs... does it give this info on the bottle?

Also - it could be that the Anne Selene products are better, but it could also be that it took 3 months for the results to start kicking in - so kinda hard to say if it's the product switch, or just the result of time.

When you say you did robust for 3 months too - do you mean you did robust at the same time as the thanyaporn? Or did you do 3 months robust AFTER 3 months of Thanyaporn (so six months before changing to A.S.)?

yeah, I'm pretty sure the Talika stuff is more to plump up breasts that were once larger, but have deflated and sagged (according to their scientific write-up of the product) - so it would be a nice addition to the NB - but I wonder if that is something you have to keep using?

Thanks again for your input : )

P

[salome83]

Hi Paloma,

Yes, sometimes I am also thinking that maybe I would start to see difference even if I didn't switch brands, that it can be the accumulated effect, who knows I used Robust for three month when I was using Thanyaporn, so in total 3 months not 6 months. And I was seeing difference but that times I was noogling on a regular basis (I mean like 4 nights a week) but all the growth was going away right after the end of my period even my mom realized, she said "I thought finally have boobs now but they went away" so she said it was probably lutheal swelling. Ooops and during that 3 months I was also using progesterone cream from day 14-28! I started using PC 1-2 months before starting PM to correct my estrogen dominance. and I stopped using after I quit Thanyaporn.

To sum up, I am not noogling for the last two months (since I am very busy with my dissertation) and i am not using PC. All I am using is the Anne Selene pills (starting last day of period for 2 weeks) and Anne Selene cream. And I am definitely more rounder and fuller it is like 88cm over nipple and 70 below and they are wider. That's why I am so impressed with this new brand. And she replies back right away all the time, with many scientific information. Since starting I just had one period and the growth didn't go away, I was thinking that i would deflate again, but it didn't happen! so now fingers crossed hope i won't deflate after the second one too. Today is day 22.

Ooh by the way, here is the link where it talks about the ingredients and mg:
http://www.anne-selene.com/InsideMiroHelth.cfm

it is 250mg per capsule and not just PM. If you dig in the site you will see there are many info, I don't know why the site is not better organized.
And one more difference is the smell of the pills, Thanyaporn has a distinct spicy smell and is more darker than my Anne Selene one, AS doesn't smell like it. so I dunno!! but AS tells in their site that their product is harvested at the 4th year which was the right time, and I am pretty sure that somewhere it mentions that it is farmed. You can email her if you want I am sure she will give you alot of info.

The other one was 350mg in total and 250 of it was PM, i think it was in the faq part, but I think they don't list other ingredients whereas Anne Selene does.

I keep touching my breasts and sometimes I forgot I am in public places but it is just weird to have that round bottom part, I really really hope I won't loose it though!!

Good luck again, and I hope you will find the right one for yourself!
Best!

[carlaa1124]

S


You can buy any brand you prefer. One thing I can assert is that the other ingredients do absolutely nothing. Have zero value.

They are there for "perception". You believe you are getting more value for your money. You are not. There is nothing unique as far as efficacy goes regarding "Ann Selene"

[salome83]

Hey Carla,

What do you think about the PM quality of Anne Selene? It just convinced me with many info about miroestrol.
Thanks

[carlaa1124]

Hi S

I honestly don't know what quality they are using.

I would caution you on two fronts. Easy to do a book report on miroestrol, plenty of pre-existing websites.

What most people do not know because they have not seen the science and it will never be posted in the public domain is the the precursor is more important (deoxymiroestrol) in high quality PM.

Its as much as 10 more potent than miroesrtrol and there is more of it then there is miroestrol than wild pm. There is alot more miroestrol also in some of the farmed PM

[Paloma]

Hey Carlaa,

How does one go about finding a quality source of pm?