[sweetpea]

I am estrogen dominant so I only used progesterone cream, vitex and DIM for a few months. It worked really well! My cycles were regular for the first time in my life and I finally grew one inch. Since my hormones were balanced, I decided to reintroduce estrogenic herbs and try to see if they would help me grow even more. The first cycle I used aguaje and I shrunk 1/2 in. This cycle I tried PM and I shrunk another 1/2 in! So my question is, how am I supposed to grow? I am starting progesterone cream again and hoping I get that 1 in. back. Should I ever try estrogenic herbs again or stick with PC and vitex for good? I don't think you can grow very much using only progesterone, can you?

[Dynseli]

Both progestins and estrogens cause normal breast growth by activating Progesterone receptor (PR [believed to be PRB]) and Estrogen receptor alpha (ER-alpha). Prolactin is useful too for activating the prolactin receptor (PrlR) (it causes density and nipple development).

Use progestogenic herbs during luteal phase. Progesterone activates progesterone receptors but might also downregulate it; meaning it can cause growth, but then make the growth slow. Some progestogenic herbs, sensitize progesterone receptors and activate them. Hops upregulates the progestogen receptor. I haven't heard of aguaje's hormonal effects. Cycling between estrogenic and progestogenic herbs may be useful for the right time of the cycle and to sensitize (ER-alpha and PRB) receptors. Find the right time to use the estrogenic herbs, because if used too much during ovulation it may cause overfertility, resulting later in reduced fertility age. Pueraria M. (and other plants from the legume family) is useful, because it contains genistein which upregulates ER-alpha, and PR. Pueraria M also has other progestogenic chemicals. There are mixed effects on what Pueraria M does, and I'm not sure when the best time to take it is.

You can stick with progesterone cream, but given alone it is a cancer risk. I read that doctors give progestins and estrogens together, and for that reason. Take cancer fighting foods with it, if you are going to use pc.

Your results looked better with vitex than with estrogens. Massage can raise prolactin, which helps too. What's DIM?

[sweetpea]

I only used aguaje and PM during the first half of my cycle and continued to use vitex all throughout my cycle. I stopped using PC during the second half because I didn't want to get my progesterone too high. I guess with the estrogenic herbs maybe I need to use PC to balance it so I will try that and see if it works better. DIM converts the bad estrogens to good. I've been taking that all throughout my cycle too.

[surferjoe2007]

Yeah don't stop using lots of PC as long as you have estrogenic herbs available to counterbalance it. Your progesterone can only be too high relative to your estrogen and vis versa. If both are high it's fine, and good for NBE.

Likewise as long as you use enough PC you shouldn't need DIM anymore, though it doesn't hurt as long as you get enough PM.