[lostacres6]

YES, indeed!!!
One other clarification, if you should know the answer: I always thought PM was the strongest phytoestrogen & one was not to supplement it. So what confuses me is, if FG is a phytoestrogen does it increase estrogen or only prolactin? In Isabelle's thread www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10880&pid=43772 dated 2/24/12, she listed FG as "increases progesterone (controversial) and prolactin". My interest is because taking PM alone causes me to have depression (like severe PMS) but if I add massive doses of FG, I'm fine. Does that make sense to you?

[Lotus]

So what confuses me is, if FG is a phytoestrogen does it increase estrogen or only prolactin?

It would seem confusing enough,

Fenugreek contains phytoestrogens, chemical compounds similar to estrogen,
http://www.livestrong.com/article/201502...e-breasts/


The seeds, in addition to female steroid precursors, also contain compounds that increase healthy breast tissue. Since the seeds contain diosgenin and other plant phyto-estrogens Fenugreek provides a mastogenic effect resulting in enhanced breast size.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Fenugreek-to-Increase-Breast-Size&id=3910268


Fenugreek works by stimulating the development of the breasts. It imitates the results of estrogen arousing the creation of prolactin.
http://www.websites-melbourne.com.au/hea...-Size.html

Equally, you'd find several other articles claiming fenugreek does nothing for breast growth, perhaps that's why it's controversial.

I always thought PM was the strongest phytoestrogen & one was not to supplement with.

I'd have to find it, someone on BN said PM should only be taken for 15 days of the month, made me think they must have talking about the luteal phase, would like to talk about that specific statement!

My interest is because taking PM alone causes me to have depression (like severe PMS) but if I add massive doses of FG, I'm fine. Does that make sense to you?

Yes it does, I've experienced severe leg/ankle cramps on higher doses of PM. I didn't start to supplement with FG until later un the program. Just curious, how much FG do you take? Fenugreek is recommended for depression.

Don't forget about the other benefits-
There are several research centers studying fenugreek's hypoglycemic and lipid-lowering effects. Fenugreek may turn out to be useful as an adjunct treatment for diabetes. Fenugreek also appears to lower cholesterol, although it takes a lot of fenugreek seeds to achieve this effect. Fenugreek seeds contain about 12% by weight steroidal saponins, including diosgenin and yamogenin. Steroidal saponins are the building blocks for various steroids, including cholesterol and male and female sex hormones. Fenugreek may eventually have commercial value for purification of the saponins to make birth control pills. About 30% of the fenugreek seed consists of mucilage, protein, lecithin and vitamins that are valued ingredients in skin care products.
http://www.fourfriends.com/abrw/Articles/fen.htm

[lostacres6]

Lotus - you're a gem!!!!
So much research, time & energy. "Read til your eyes bleed" is putting it lightly. Thanks so much.
I take 5760 mg of FG. (2100 of FG extract & 3660 of FG seed). Had to keep increasing it til I no longer had depression. I'm also prediabetc (genetic) A1C is 6.8
A little history about myself in case you don't know: Not many members on this NBE are in my shoes (or bra Ha HA). I'm 64 yrs old (feel & act much younger) & 12 yrs postmenopausal so I don't have the same estrogen/progesterone stores as the younger women. I started NBE almost 4 yrs ago. I was almost "flat" - probably a 34 AA (or less). I've tried everything: BO, Eve's program, Greenbush, PM, noogleberry. You'd think after 4 yrs. I'd be a 38DDD, but I'm not. Have had some success but would like more (doesn't everyone?). I wish I had come across NBE when I was much younger & maybe I would have grown more.
So everyone gives me advice on what is best for menstruating women. I wonder if I should do a program suited for a bio male instead?
Thanks for listening.

[surferjoe2007]

You can combine FG and PM. Steroidal saponins and phytoestrogens combine very well. There are some other phytoestrogen herbs that don't combine well with PM. There's some confusion because everything NBE tends to get lumped under "phytoestrogen" when really it might actually be steroidal saponins or prolactin or etc.

[loverstilly]

Hi girls and pros (like Isabelle, Tibetan etc)

What is the point of doing a hormonal test? Are we trying to balance our hormones in the end?

For example, if someone is estrogen dominant and progesterone deficient, should she increase P and decrease E through herbs? Or should she keep the E and increase the P?

Thanks!

[peggy]

Good question loverstilly. I would say that balanced hormones are important. Maybe it's best to be in the mid-higher range of both estrogen and progesterone. To be deficient in one and to have too much of the other hormone is definitely not good in my opinion. To be low in both hormones (like me) is not good either.

[Raquerta]

“Nail/hair growth: No MSM.”

This is furthest from the truth. MSM will have a huge impact on everyone’s nail and hair growth. The results are huge. Check it out !