[Lotus]

So Lotus.
Fenugreek and other weaker phytoestrgoens bind to any/all e receptor sites and to a lesser degree estradiol. Where as PM binds more specifically to Estradiol blocking that out, the strongest estrogen responsible for potential development of cancer and E dominance.
So by rights PM is probably the most beneficial phytoestrogen out there??? And maybe for those out there who are E dominant do you think that PM would have the capabilities to knock estradiol out and replace it rendering the E dominance less harmful?
This is really interesting!

Boy!!!, you ask tough questions lol. Well I suppose it makes sense right?, I mean anything that's used for NBE should have one if not the biggest goal in mind for breast growth and that's targeting E receptors. Sure, there are other things to consider but the basis is the targeting with receptor happy supplements. The top three phytoestrogens are:

1) PM
2) Red Clover
3) FG

And if you wanted the best results for a phytoestrogen it would be PM (extract) and applied directly to the breasts.

Now to knock-out E dominance, PC needs to be in the program to balance out the excess, even PM can cause dominate estrogenic like effects, (nothing is a gimme in NBE).

Is that what you mean?

[EllaC]

So Lotus.
Fenugreek and other weaker phytoestrgoens bind to any/all e receptor sites and to a lesser degree estradiol. Where as PM binds more specifically to Estradiol blocking that out, the strongest estrogen responsible for potential development of cancer and E dominance.
So by rights PM is probably the most beneficial phytoestrogen out there??? And maybe for those out there who are E dominant do you think that PM would have the capabilities to knock estradiol out and replace it rendering the E dominance less harmful?
This is really interesting!

Boy!!!, you ask tough questions lol. Well I suppose it makes sense right?, I mean anything that's used for NBE should have one if not the biggest goal in mind for breast growth and that's targeting E receptors. Sure, there are other things to consider but the basis is the targeting with receptor happy supplements. The top three phytoestrogens are:

1) PM
2) Red Clover
3) FG

And if you wanted the best results for a phytoestrogen it would be PM (extract) and applied directly to the breasts.

Now to knock-out E dominance, PC needs to be in the program to balance out the excess, even PM can cause dominate estrogenic like effects, (nothing is a gimme in NBE).

Is that what you mean?

LOL sorry you know me, I get all over excited and it all comes tumbling out, sometimes back to front

So you've listed the top 3 phytos and fenugreek is up there! That's good But what I was trying to understand is if Fenugreek takes up Estradiol receptors as well or is it just PM that targets the Estradiol?

Cause estradiol being the strongest type we want to knock it off its perch so I figured if PM targets estradiol then in my eyes PM is a relatively safe herb??? Sorry hope that makes more sence.

[EllaC]

I've always been scared of PM you see, thinking its too strong, bla bla bla... But based on what you are saying and also what I've read it might actually be the safer choice of estrogenic herb.
That's what I'm trying to figure out Not saying I'l take it but i'd be lying if I said it hasn't crossed my mind... for somewhere distant down the track :p

[Lotus]

So Lotus.
Fenugreek and other weaker phytoestrgoens bind to any/all e receptor sites and to a lesser degree estradiol. Where as PM binds more specifically to Estradiol blocking that out, the strongest estrogen responsible for potential development of cancer and E dominance.
So by rights PM is probably the most beneficial phytoestrogen out there??? And maybe for those out there who are E dominant do you think that PM would have the capabilities to knock estradiol out and replace it rendering the E dominance less harmful?
This is really interesting!

Boy!!!, you ask tough questions lol. Well I suppose it makes sense right?, I mean anything that's used for NBE should have one if not the biggest goal in mind for breast growth and that's targeting E receptors. Sure, there are other things to consider but the basis is the targeting with receptor happy supplements. The top three phytoestrogens are:

1) PM
2) Red Clover
3) FG

And if you wanted the best results for a phytoestrogen it would be PM (extract) and applied directly to the breasts.

Now to knock-out E dominance, PC needs to be in the program to balance out the excess, even PM can cause dominate estrogenic like effects, (nothing is a gimme in NBE).

Is that what you mean?

LOL sorry you know me, I get all over excited and it all comes tumbling out, sometimes back to front

So you've listed the top 3 phytos and fenugreek is up there! That's good But what I was trying to understand is if Fenugreek takes up Estradiol receptors as well or is it just PM that targets the Estradiol?

Cause estradiol being the strongest type we want to knock it off its perch so I figured if PM targets estradiol then in my eyes PM is a relatively safe herb??? Sorry hope that makes more sence.

Oh ok, I understand,

I think of it as if we're sending E-2 on a secret mission to which there's no point of return. Or we're packing her bags and sending her on a long trip, to nowhere lol.

Seriously though, that's theoretically what's happening with phytoestrogens.

[EllaC]

Thank you L.
I'm sorry I missed the part where you said this:
even PM can cause dominate estrogenic like effects, (nothing is a gimme in NBE).
So I get it now, and based on that statement I'm ok with staying on the fenugreek for now

[rocketmelon]

very interesting I've been seeing a lot of the herbs used for nbe are used in treating cancer ..same goes for most plant sourced foods ..

thank you so much =D you are fantastic! seriously I've been looking up that damn dandelion root getting different answers >=/ on it having hormones or not.......well I'll be able to take for sure with pm =D

you know I might try a small dose of fg in the morning and pm later on in the day and see how it goes with the dandy lil weed ....they are so yellow and cheerful looking , maybe that's why they are so dandy

.......can I ask ..HOW DO YOU KNOW SO MUCH xD...haha a true scientist ..the nbe form is your lab....google is your research center ..your head is where you theory is and we are you guinea pigs c=


you'd be good with a job in herbal medicine ^_^


yeh good ol squads ..should get some weights some time too
I also heard maca doesn't have hormones in it , it just stimulated and balances them on the human body?....well aguaje is renowned for going straight to the hips ...but it isn't very well known so I don't think as much is known on it's chemistry


sorry again
what would you say are the top progesterone herbs you know ?
is wild yam a good one ? wild yam cream it better.....I'm hearing plant progesterone has trouble been digested? so a cream is better
ah I keep asking so many questions xD ...but I'm interested in getting a good sturdy progesterone to add ...I'm unsure about synthetic creams however =s ......I mean pm is for the estrogen...what is the mighty bomb for progesterone ? if you can think of a top one it be so helpful ..I was thinking oregano, turmeric, nutmeg and thyme for price? you know any of them? ....whats top (natural) progesterone in your best books

I'm also thinking blessed thistle or mother wort to add because I noticed they have at lest one in almost every brand of bust pills ...but I've got fg for a "lactating herb" for my program ..think I'll do OK with out


so thx c; good information

[Lotus]

Hi rocket,

Just have enough time to give ya a response, and I'll definitely follow up with more asap.

sorry again
what would you say are the top progesterone herbs you know ?
is wild yam a good one ? wild yam cream it better....

Wild Yam doesn't have progesterone, it contains diosgenin, a precursor to progesterone and cannot be converted to progesterone in the body. It does have benefits and they include- regulating metabolism, helping with sex drive, it's alkaloids helps with pms, muscle cramps and also helps to reduce inflammation. It's a great question, we could take as long as necessary to describe the differences of WY and progesterone.

Chaste berry has been reported to increase progesterone during certain parts of the cycle, although it hasn't work for some members and they have reported on some unwanted side effects. (Just do a search for the same in BN)

There are more herbs that help promote progesterone and hormones if that's what you meant?

Effects of wild yam extract on menopausal symptoms, lipids and sex hormones in healthy menopausal women.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11428178
Wild Yam
http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/wild-yam
Possible Interactions with: Wild yam
http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/her...h-wild-yam


Imo transdermal is the best delivery for progesterone and it should be USP paraben free progesterone cream, there are some out there and they are expensive.

So let's talk about this list, (prescription based)

What are bioidentical hormones?
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/W...rmones.htm
Hormone Therapy
http://umm.edu/search-results?&sk=UMMC+W...&rdb=False

I'd be interested in finding out the best one out there too, I think this one is a good option.

Paraben-Free) Natural Progesterone Cream 1,000 Mg. USP (For Wrinkles, Hot Flashes, Mood Swings, Vaginal Dryness and Other Effects of Menopause)
http://www.amazon.com/Paraben-Free-Natur...B00EB0AQA4

.......can I ask ..HOW DO YOU KNOW SO MUCH xD...haha a true scientist ..the nbe form is your lab....google is your research center ..your head is where you theory is and we are you guinea pigs c=

Haha, close...
I'm the lab rat and guinea pig, NBE is the lab and a search engine is the means of the research.

[rocketmelon]

haha wow so wild yam is a sneaky lil vegetable it makes the goods but won't give you them as your body can't convert it ..dem yams are teases I'm glad I eat them a xmas ........I wonder if they are still good for nbe seeing there in the combo herbal bust grow pill form ..but did you say it's precursor of progesterone ? and it can't be converted to progesterone but could it be converted to a precursor and used to aid a women with a reactive hormonal system (like a non menopausal) ? don't worry you don't have to answer that one you've already given...and it's looking like the yam may not be as nbe as I thought!
enough interesting links and that cream looks like what I'm after
do you think the herbal breast pills research as much as you in their combos xD doubt it

thank you ..THIS IS JUST WHaT I wanted ..I'm really considering this cream or at lest one identical ..must check it's in my country ^^ to get..
this cream then it must be bio-identical hormone so they can call it "natural" ........I react bad with bc so I hoping I'd be safe with this instead of something synthetic? I only want to use a little to at pms time ..herbs have really helped my mood with pms though aleady I'm taking lots of fennel seeds (apparently there good for progesterone?) and fg ...I want to boost my levels though for nbe add a lil exta with the herbs

you should be paid for this ^^ you'd make a lot of money writing a book c= or if you very motivated a product!
...but that's interesting how there are no fav herbs as of yet for this....do you believe herbs high in progesterone like oregano or turmeric would be unable to convert their goods like the yam?


and are those your breast in the picture ..there so full and beautiful..how long have you nbe'ed and how much did you grow !
ah so your the lab rat "squeak" good to know you've got the experience with the knowledge and theory ^_-

[Lotus]

and are those your breast in the picture ..there so full and beautiful..how long have you nbe'ed and how much did you grow !
ah so your the lab rat "squeak" good to know you've got the experience with the knowledge and theory ^_-

Yup that's me, and thanks!, do you have any pics?

Have you seen this chart?, it's excellent!!!

Estrogen and Progestin Bioactivity of Foods, Herbs, and Spices (44247) Figures and Tables, David T. Zava, PhD, Charles M. Dollbaum, MD, PhD and Marilyn Blen
http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estr...a.html#TOC

[lovedebbii]

I was wondering if anyone had any info how ginkgo is affective in NBE. I also saw a post that said Maca could cause breast shrinkage if you are under 26, is that true?