[sp2000]

Hi every one
I am a male in mid 40ies.I regret using Saw palmetto.
I used Saw Palmetto about four years ago for my hair loss for few months (4-5). Got side effects: extreme fatigue, appetite loss, low libido, erectile dysfunction, Vision problem and so on. I stopped SP thinking side effects will go away but after stopping sides got severe and severe until I lost my job and career ruined. Up Until now I have not recovered. My side effects are more severe now
1-Very weak and tired. Get up in the morning like have been run over by an eighteen wheeler.
2-Joint pain, Muscle pain, thin skin.
3-Cold body. My hands and feet always very cold like ice
4-Poor sleep. get up after 2-3 hours sleep
5-Irregular heart beet, fast heart beet
6-No appetite. I now eat almost 1/4 of what I used to eat before.
7-Naseau all the time.
8-Double vision.
9-100% impotent. I used to think alot about sex before but now it looks like chore for me.
10-Shrunken testicles and penis. My penis and testilces have permnenetly shrunken. I have not done serm check but I think I don't have any sperms.
11-Pot belly, thin arms and legs.
12- Body hair loss. I used to be a hairy guy but now my legs, arms are without hair like I have shaved them. My chest has very fine and thin hair. Hair on my head is now look wiered. I had stright hair now wavey and very weak.
My list still not complete but I think this is enough.

I have come to this forum because I want to try bovine glandular extracts and this is very important for me. I need your help here. I want to know if any woman has got any side effects from Bovine Ovary extract. Again this is very important.. I want to try Adrenal or thyroid or testicular glandular extract but want to do tons of studies. Dont want to repeat the same mistake.

[sp2000]

I know there are some males on this forum. My questions for them are

1- When you use bovine glandular ( yes only bovine ovary extract and no other herb like saw palmetto or other stuff which I don't know) do you get shrinkage and loss of erections?
2-Are these side effects permanent? If you stop taking glandulars can you go back to normal?
3-What do you do to get normal.

thanks for your time.

[hannah]

Hi every one
I am a male in mid 40ies.I regret using Saw palmetto.
I used Saw Palmetto about four years ago for my hair loss for few months (4-5). Got side effects: extreme fatigue, appetite loss, low libido, erectile dysfunction, Vision problem and so on. I stopped SP thinking side effects will go away but after stopping sides got severe and severe until I lost my job and career ruined. Up Until now I have not recovered. My side effects are more severe now
1-Very weak and tired. Get up in the morning like have been run over by an eighteen wheeler.
2-Joint pain, Muscle pain, thin skin.
3-Cold body. My hands and feet always very cold like ice
4-Poor sleep. get up after 2-3 hours sleep
5-Irregular heart beet, fast heart beet
6-No appetite. I now eat almost 1/4 of what I used to eat before.
7-Naseau all the time.
8-Double vision.
9-100% impotent. I used to think alot about sex before but now it looks like chore for me.
10-Shrunken testicles and penis. My penis and testilces have permnenetly shrunken. I have not done serm check but I think I don't have any sperms.
11-Pot belly, thin arms and legs.
12- Body hair loss. I used to be a hairy guy but now my legs, arms are without hair like I have shaved them. My chest has very fine and thin hair. Hair on my head is now look wiered. I had stright hair now wavey and very weak.
My list still not complete but I think this is enough.

I have come to this forum because I want to try bovine glandular extracts and this is very important for me. I need your help here. I want to know if any woman has got any side effects from Bovine Ovary extract. Again this is very important.. I want to try Adrenal or thyroid or testicular glandular extract but want to do tons of studies. Dont want to repeat the same mistake.

He Mr,
I've been posting under Noogleberry permanent indentions.
I have the exact same problems as you have. It is due vascular damage from the nooglberry.
I also keep losing weight and have deformed thin arms.
Did you used the Nb system?
I am going to court..

[sp2000]

hannah14
I have told I used Saw palmetto. I don't what noogleberry is? never heard.

[HeroinFox]

Hannah. this completely unrelated to your issue. Keep your lawsuit to yourself. if you want to share a warning do so, otherwise I feel you should keep legal information to yourself

[sp2000]

hannah14
you wana go to court and you think you will win a case? where do you live? in US or Canada?
I bet you will not win a single penny.

[Dianna1395]

I am NOT a doctor, nor a nurse, nor a physician's assistant, nor... (Etc.)

I think the problem you want to address is low Testosterone.

There are multiple concerns to address, which I'd suggest you keep offline as much as possible. Ask for advice, sure, but if you don't NEED to put "X" online, keep it private. Your discretion/decision, though.

1. What brought you to using SP? (IE, hair loss only, or other things, too?)
2. What is MOST important function to recover?
3. How bad is the financial situation?
4. Can you manage to find a new job, IF this is dealt with?
5. Did you want any feminine traits / do you want any feminine traits to remain?

I would guess one of two things happened.
1 - you NEED testosterone. Either you're REALLY male, and the lack of testosterone is warping you (fits the inability to concentrate, nausea, cold body, strength loss, impotence, body hair loss). Could be your body needs the DHT (DiHydroTestosterone), which is the strongest androgen - OR, you might not be producing the necessary testosterone; maybe you're producing too much SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding globulin); not enough free Testosterone (possibly due to aromatization...)
Lots of options. Easy solutions:
A - Look to a doctor to test the hormons levels. "Why" doesn't matter, and if you just want a hormone test, you might be able to do thatt outside of doctor's office/appointment.
B - Clomid is listed as one stimulant for the gonads. Also, GnRH (gonadotropin-releasing Hormone) can be used.
C - You can get transdermal Testosterone cream on Amazon, no 'scrip needed. Testaderm, IIRC.

2 - you got bad SP, and have been poisoned. This could be heavy metal poisoning, based on the info you provided - but that's a long shot. Blueberries, LOTS of blueberries, will help, if it's metals. Natural chellation. If you have white bands on your fingernails, it's a worthwhile try. Takes time, but you should see a turnaround pretty fast.
I'd suggest seeing a doctor on this one - look up symptoms of poisoning.

Now, there are a few other things that will be helpful, too.
WORK OUT. Especially the larger muscles of the lower body. I'd suggest Stronglifts 5X5, but anything consisting of squats, deadlift, pelvic thrust, and other full-body exercises will help. those large muscles will help boost testosterone. you need to work HARD, though - no pink weights @ 1 pound each. Your LIFE depends on "getting away from that sabertooth tiger." Wrestle it into submission - in about a week, you should feel a difference.
And if you can't handle weights much, try running a hill or stadium stairs. Gluteals are a large muscle group, too.

FORCE yourself to eat a good diet of healthy foods. Low carb to no carb; red meats a plus. Fish excellent, too. Leafy greens. Seaweed (for iodine.) Kale, spinach, spring mix, lettuce, cabbage, celery, broccoli, asparagus, herb salads. AVOID beets, carrots, and all potatoes and rice. (You can use brown rice a bit, but sparingly.)
Avocados. and i've heard good things about brussel sprouts, but never tried them. Avoid fruit, use it sparingly. It's Ok to eat a pound of blueberries a day, say, if you need to - eat it a few berries at a time, to not knock your blood sugar.

LOTS of water. Add some lemon juice! It'll make the body's Ph shift to alkaline (basic) instead of acidic; acidic bodies retain fat. Fat increases estrogen receptors (I don't know the how, though.) The acid levels also cause muscle to atrophy, or to break down (catabolism). You want to avoid that.

I'd guess that a kick in the 'nads from anything that boosts Testosterone will help you. But I don't know the herbs worth a d@mn. People swear by Horny Goat Weed, tribulus terestris, and there are some Asian remedies I can no longer remember - but the body can heal most things.

As an example, I've used Citerone - and I'm still 230 pounds, lifting about 130+ for overhead press. Obviously, the numbers should be reversed, but point is - the body rebuilds, and the T isn't the "holy grail" unless you're "up the creek without a paddle."

Now, once you get it under control again, and get the T into your system - you'll start to lose hair again. If you WANT to have body hair - you'll lose head hair. That's how it works. Both are due to DHT. If you can sacrifice the body hair a bit, ask the Doc about off-label use of Finasteride (Proscar, Propecia; maybe even Dutasteride, but I thnk that would be TOO much for your purposes.) Get his opinion before you try it - you may want testing, too. Fractional T testing, fractional E testing, check FSH, LH. (So, Fractional T = Testosterone and DHT; fractional E = E1/E2/E3, which is Estrone, Estradiol, and Estrione, IIRC; FSH = Follicle Stimulating Hormone, LH = Leutenizing hormone.) Also check your thyroid function.

Once you get a baseline, and have regular checks planned, it's Ok to dabble. finasteride's active ingredient will help to avoid androgenic allopecia, or Male Pattern Baldness, IF and ONLY IF it's due to DHT. If it's due to vitamin or mineral deficiencies, you're SOL - but they're cured more easily, too. Address that AFTER you get the body back in the direction you want.

hope this helps a little.

[pascalef]

Honestly, sp2000, I would highly recommend seeing an acupuncturist and discussing Chinese herbal formulas. Hair loss is something that is very effectively addressed with Chinese herbs. Chinese herbal formulas are very, very ancient and time tested. These days most formulas have also undergone scientific study and are "scientifically proven" for those people who need that kind of evidence.

Also, depending on where you live (if you live in the US), an acupuncturist would be able to order you a hormone panel to test your hormone levels. I think it would also be useful information to know them and how Saw palmetto may have impacted them. I think it is likely that whatever Saw Palmetto did to you is treatable and/or reversible.

I would not jump to the conclusion that Bovine Ovary would help you or "undo" the damage that Saw Palmetto did. I think you should seek the help of a trusted practitioner. And I am a student of Traditional Chinese Medicine, so I know it works for cases like yours. I know patients come to my university's clinic for hair loss or hormonal imbalance problems.

[sp2000]

pascalef
thanks for your time and help.I have tried AP by a very competent Apuncturest. I used it for 3+3 months but AP did not help me. Both times it increased my symptoms. Actually initially felt better both times but then got worse slowly. My symptoms like frequent urination came back after AP. After stopping AP frequent urination subsided in 1-2 months. It has to do with cortisol as well. I have high blood but low salivary cortisol. Do you know why and how this is possible?

[surferjoe2007]

Maybe a bad hypothalamus, but you should really get fully checked and see.

A good starting point would be to live off of lots and lots of sprouted pumpkin seeds to cover anything you might be missing. Around 1/2 cup a day or more. If you can't find it sprouted then soak overnight in water, or get roasted if you must. If you really want to go all out then add in oysters, mussels, a little sunflower seeds and lots and lots of whole grains, especially brown rice. These are food, they're harmless and a great first step. Try for several months.

Watch out for BS nutritional fads. Verify everything. Here's where you can find the nutritional content of all foods: http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/ . That's why I picked out the above; high nutrition by the numbers. Here's where you can find studies: www.pubmed.gov . Kale is total BS for example. Do not omit any category of food: there is no common whole food well studied to always be avoided. But that's a great way to miss multiple nutrients. And there are thousands of studies showing the detriment to health too. To be blunt there are sciency fads that are total made up BS without significant support from studies nor biology. If you're not sure then good, look it up for yourself. Don't believe without checking nutritional content first.

Saw palmetto only stops the conversion of regular T into DHT, and it stops blocking the conversion once you stop taking it and it is out of your system. It can't block the conversion anymore; it's not there. You stopped 4 years ago you said? It is utterly incapable of lowering regular T. But DHT is much stronger than regular T so you may have been running on all DHT and then SP killed it off. Low T doesn't shrink your balls; that's backwards. Shrunken balls lowers your T. If anything lowering T by itself would make your balls larger to compensate (if nothing else is wrong). That's why those who abuse T have balls the size of raisins.

You're too hung up on random guessing and finger pointing when that doesn't work out. There's something else going on here and I think you gotta go through the lab tests and figure it out to find a proper answer. Here's a study with 369 people taking 960 mg saw palmetto extract, a triple dose, for 18 months without any measurable adverse effects compared to placebo: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23063633 . I know quite well that there are many people who had their testosterone plummet after using SP, but they are many out of millions. SP can only lower their stronger DHT testosterone and then only as long as you keep taking it. So there is a sudden drop in overall T and it's a bad experience. But for their other T to be missing and for there to be other effects besides those related to lower T there has to be something else also going on here. Find out what. You say you were "fine" before but you were balding. Balding shows a reliance on DHT. DHT may provide plenty of testosterone, but it leads to balding, enlarged prostate and so on. If you kill off your DHT it should be no surprise that your testosterone drops a good deal. The only big surprise is that there was nothing else left. That's not normal or typical. Find out why it happened.

It's like Socrates says, "the unexamined life is not worth living". Find hard data on everything, cross-examine everything. If you're thrown about on every whim because something looks bad or looks good at a glance, then it's going to be a long time before you stumble across an answer by pure luck.

If it were me I'd be mad more at the doctor because he said "oh, your testosterone is low" and simply tossed you some testosterone without running more thorough tests, not because it didn't work.