[Jenya]

Hello, this is my "first" post and I have many questions regarding the Pueraria Mirifica plant, but in this thread I will try to mainly revolve around Puereria Mirifica intake and male fertility.

After reading on Wikipedia about this plant, I became more interested. I am not sure how much of this is true but this is a snippet from a document that was written on palm leaves (citation at bottom of thread):

"To take the tuberous root of Pueraria with big leaves, pound and blend with cow’s milk. The benefits of this medicine is to support memory, talk big, and be able to remember three books of the astrology, make the skin smooth like six year old kid, live more than 1,000 years and parasite diseases are not able to be of trouble"

Anyway. I am a male and I would like to obtain a "female" body, but still have fully functioning testes that would be able to produce sperm. I want to be able to reproduce in the future, and at the same time have a "feminine" body.


Would this be possible?


After doing much research it seems that Pueraria Mirifica causes men to become sterile, but weather this is permanent or not I am not sure.


I am thinking to try using Pueraria Mirifica and Maca root (in order to have sperm be produced)

- "Men who use Maca have been seen to have an increased libido and healthy sperm." (I took this out of a website, which I sourced in this thread)

This is a regime I may want to try that I found in a thread on a different site which I also cited below But I changed it a bit by adding Maca root to it. Here is how it goes as follows:

- One tab of Pueraria Mirifica and Maca root, every other day for 2 weeks
- Two tabs of Pueraria Mirifica and Maca root every other day (morning/night) 4-6 weeks
- Two tabs of Pueraria Mirifica and Maca root a day from there on out

Was adding Maca root to this regime a good idea? (The original regime can be seem in the third citation I have below)


Also I am not sure how much one "tab" is, I suppose to be fertile the consumption would have to be limited or taken very slowly at first?


In conclusion; my main goal is to obtain a "female" body while still having fully functioning testes, that could produce sperm. I want to be able to reproduce. Would this be possible with the regime I have above? Should i make changes to it? Would it work? Any tips? Thank you.


Other questions:

- If fertility got lost could it be regained? Could it be permanently lost? What about wet dreams?



Citations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueraria_mirifica

http://natural-fertility-info.com/estrog...guide.html

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t34-p...a-mirifica

[surferjoe2007]

Nope estrogen and testosterone are in direct opposition so success is at best partial: limited moobs and partial fertility. Testicles make testosterone and testosterone gets in the way of breasts. IIRC there was a Russian athlete who went from a small chest (B cup maybe?) to F cups simply from retiring, as heavy exercise tends to come with elevated testosterone. Estrogen reduces LH and FSH which decrease testicle activity. In fact estrogen, prolactin and testosterone are the main ways LH and FSH production is down-regulated. Estrogen and prolactin in particular.

Here's a good writeup on how it all works:
https://www.uthsc.edu/endocrinology/docu...ldress.pdf

Maca may increase DHEA a little which may increase other hormones in the testicles (or ovaries in women), but only if you have functioning LH or FSH. So "Oh I'll use a major NBE herb and I'll just use some minor fertility herb to compensate" is a dangerous assumption that's bound to fail. The proper way to go about it would be 2,000 mg 100:1 tongkat ali extract to block estrogen and prolactin in the hypothalamus. Like PM this is a major herb, not some weak sauce. You may need less to start to avoid excessively sore rapidly enlarging testicles and a huge testosterone spike leading to sore upper legs. But then the high testosterone limits how much moobs can enlarge. It's not "add a bit of this then add a bit of that", there are a lot of negative limiting factors that determine sexual function as much or more than the positive factors.

I once found a study suggesting 500 mg PM could be reversible, but maybe not 1,000 mg PM within the limited timespan of the study. Most males tend to use 2,000 mg PM. You'll have to search the forums for precisely how well reverting worked for others. But IIRC it's ok at first and then the deeper you go in the harder it gets to ever go back.

So it's like fire and water. You can find them together in special circumstances but it doesn't work well and it's not the norm.

[Wannabe]

Since first finding this forum, I, too, have been impressed with the results of PM and other herbals, but I've come to the conclusion that if it's a give and take situation, my male functionality wins. I think part of my love of the idea of having breasts is related to my male sexuality, so losing that would defeat the purpose.

I have read the occasional account by a poster who says they've had no substantial loss of male ability, but they probably are loosing fertility even so and I think sex function loss is sometimes just delayed.

I think the only sure ways of avoiding male function loss is to avoid changing your body chemistry at all. I've seen pretty amazing results from the users of suction devices and have a promising start on it myself. That's my current plan. Pretty much the only other options would be breast implants or simply wearing silicon breast forms for a figure change.

A magic pill with no sexual down side would be nice, but I don't think there is one. If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me.

[Lotus]

That's only one side, and not the rule. There are ways around it if you just willing to put forth the time and research. It's already been proven it could be done without losing male function, just look around on the forum (genetic male section), and don't believe everything you hear.

[surferjoe2007]

To a point. I don't mean that it is black and white. I mean the two are in direct opposition. Those that go full blown estrogen HRT for years have no male function left at all. But PM isn't as bad as estrogen HRT, and a lesser time than a few years isn't as bad. Those that are starting are usually fine for several months. And there are biological reasons for this which is why I gave that link. It would be good to read. Estrogen blocks release of hormones in the hypothalamus which in turn blocks testicular function. Testosterone, produced in any functioning testicles partly blocks the effects of estrogen which is why so many programs involve reducing it.

It would be very good to search through examples of others in forums and what happens to them to see what's in store for you 6 months and 6 years down the road.

[Lotus]

To a point?, I don't buy the advice "the only thing you could do part". I've been on NBE 2+ years, still have function and some breast growth. I have posted numerous topics on not reducing T (free t) and converting it through enzymes.

If you haven't seen it, the information is in this forum, particularly in the Anti-Androgen thread. Trust me, I've spent the time researching this on other forums. I've found that HRT is reported as "safe" under a doctors care, so let's present all the facts to the newcomers before someone tells them need implants.

I'll give a quick reason as to why I think this is possible,

Leydig cells, which produce the primary male steroid hormone testosterone (T), express the two estrogen receptor (ER) subtypes, ERalpha and ERbeta, and have the capacity to convert testosterone to the natural estrogen 17beta-estradiol. Thus, Leydig cells are subject to estrogen action.

[Jenya]

To a point?, I don't buy the advice "the only thing you could do part". I've been on NBE 2+ years, still have function and some breast growth. I have posted numerous topics on not reducing T (free t) and converting it through enzymes.

If you haven't seen it, the information is in this forum, particularly in the Anti-Androgen thread. Trust me, I've spent the time researching this on other forums. I've found that HRT is reported as "safe" under a doctors care, so let's present all the facts to the newcomers before someone tells them need implants.

I'll give a quick reason as to why I think this is possible,

Leydig cells, which produce the primary male steroid hormone testosterone (T), express the two estrogen receptor (ER) subtypes, ERalpha and ERbeta, and have the capacity to convert testosterone to the natural estrogen 17beta-estradiol. Thus, Leydig cells are subject to estrogen action.

Your reply is promising. But when you say you have "function" do you mean the ability to produce fertile sperm, or just get an erection? I am not really worried about having an erection, but producing the fertile sperm is what I would like to stay. Could you give me a link to the "Anti-Androgen thread"? I could not find it...

[surferjoe2007]

If you're not worried about lowering testosterone and want testosterone, testicle activity and fertility as high as possible here's the way:
- 2,000 mg 100:1 tongkat ali. Begin with 500 mg and increase as long as the soreness isn't uncomfortable.
- Any amount of fenugreek, shatavari or goat's rue or their extracts. Increase as long as the soreness isn't uncomfortable.
- 30 mg zinc. Or zinc + manganese. Or oysters and mussels are even better for a wider variety of important minerals including these two.

Maca and/or DHEA help a little but they're pretty weak sauce. Likewise for a few other herbs like nettle. The first two options are in their own league. Zinc, manganese and etc. aren't helpful so much as they are essential. Extra won't help more if you're already getting enough from food, but you can't have male function without them. It's common to have low zinc though.

[Jenya]

If you're not worried about lowering testosterone and want testosterone, testicle activity and fertility as high as possible here's the way:
- 2,000 mg 100:1 tongkat ali. Begin with 500 mg and increase as long as the soreness isn't uncomfortable.
- Any amount of fenugreek, shatavari or goat's rue or their extracts. Increase as long as the soreness isn't uncomfortable.
- 30 mg zinc. Or zinc + manganese. Or oysters and mussels are even better for a wider variety of important minerals including these two.

Maca and/or DHEA help a little but they're pretty weak sauce. Likewise for a few other herbs like nettle. The first two options are in their own league. Zinc, manganese and etc. aren't helpful so much as they are essential. Extra won't help more if you're already getting enough from food, but you can't have male function without them. It's common to have low zinc though.

Thank you. And how much PM should go with this regime? I sent you a message also.

[surferjoe2007]

If you're not worried about lowering testosterone and want testosterone, testicle activity and fertility as high as possible here's the way:
- 2,000 mg 100:1 tongkat ali. Begin with 500 mg and increase as long as the soreness isn't uncomfortable.
- Any amount of fenugreek, shatavari or goat's rue or their extracts. Increase as long as the soreness isn't uncomfortable.
- 30 mg zinc. Or zinc + manganese. Or oysters and mussels are even better for a wider variety of important minerals including these two.

Maca and/or DHEA help a little but they're pretty weak sauce. Likewise for a few other herbs like nettle. The first two options are in their own league. Zinc, manganese and etc. aren't helpful so much as they are essential. Extra won't help more if you're already getting enough from food, but you can't have male function without them. It's common to have low zinc though.

Thank you. And how much PM should go with this regime? I sent you a message also.

I don't know really. I only know that these by themselves are good for male function and that they may block some detrimental estrogen effects on male function. But I don't know how well they block estrogen's effects on male function if you're intentionally adding a lot.

And PM isn't as harmful to male function as real estrogen which can drop male function to zero after not too long. Some in the forums managed ok for a bit. Search the forums and gather lots of examples after different periods of time.