[Lotus]

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As you can see the pathway for Testosterone, Approximately 7% of testosterone is reduced to 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) by the cytochrome P450 enzyme 5α-reductase, an enzyme highly expressed in male sex organs and hair follicles. Approximately 0.3% of testosterone is converted into estradiol by aromatase (CYP19A1) an enzyme expressed in the brain, liver, and adipose tissues. Note-the percentages are slightly off, (multiple sources).

By inhibiting the enzyme 5-alpha reductase and promoting the enzyme aromatase along with your choice phytoestrogens or pharma E is key for breast growth in bio-males.

Herbs that convert aromatase-White Peony, Liorice root, Genistein (PM), BO.

Herbs that help block 5 ar, Licorice root, WP, Reishi, SP, pygeum, nettle root (NR is tricky though), BO (not an herb), chinese skullcap, linolenic acid, green tea, progesterone cream is a strong 5 ar, pumpkin seed oil, linolenic acid.

(Pharma-Dutasteride and Finasteride). Both finasteride and dutasteride undergo extensive hepatic metabolism primarily via the cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP 3A4) isoenzyme system.

Bruno deLignieres, an impeccable French researcher and Thiery Hertoghe, MD, fourth generation in the most distinguished family of endocrinologists in Belgium, have put forth the notion that rising estrogen levels are more likely to be the initiator of the process and that testosterone and DHT may then be a secondary player (promoter). In fact, phytotherapy (large doses of phytoestrogens - soy) is commonly used in European medical practices to treat BPH.

(Jonathan Wright and Eugene Shippen have written excellent, and popular books, discussing these more far-sighted notions all too commonly overlooked and even rejected in current conventional American Medical thinking.)

Testosterone is reduced by the enzyme 5-a-reductase to DHT which is then thought to be the real culprit. The argument between the use of Saw Palmetto, Pygeum and Pumpkin seeds vs Proscar are both directed at blocking this enzyme. Strangely, DHT is most important for sexual vigor, so blocking this step may have some unintended consequences!

On the other hand, Testosterone is also converted into estradiol by aromatase (producing the aromatic ring). This occurs increasingly with age in the liver but most importantly ... in the fat stores.

http://www.antiaging.com/andropause/andropause2.html

Its been stated here before that the Androgen to Estrogen pathway is easier than the Testosterone to Estrogen pathway, and once again aromatase continues to demonstrate the factual evidence.

A couple of French researchers recently reported this:

Testosterone is reduced by the enzyme 5-a-reductase to DHT which is then thought to be the real culprit. The argument between the use of Saw Palmetto, Pygeum and Pumpkin seeds vs Proscar are both directed at blocking this enzyme. Strangely, DHT is most important for sexual vigor, so blocking this step may have some unintended consequences!

On the other hand, Testosterone is also converted into estradiol by aromatase (producing the aromatic ring). This occurs increasingly with age in the liver but most importantly ... in the fat stores.
Now you see the connection. As we age, and frequently gain increasing fat stores, we are feeding the aromatase connection, increasing our estradiol levels and if this theory holds, increasing the promotion of prostate disease.

Also that rising estrogen levels are more likely to be the initiator of the process and that testosterone and DHT may then be a secondary player (promoter). In fact, phytotherapy (large doses of phytoestrogens - soy) is commonly used in European medical practices to treat BPH.

Another example of the androgen/estrogen pathway:



http://www.antiaging.com/andropause/andropause2.html

[/quote]

[Lotus]

Here's a great example of the DHT process, my question has always been the preferential binding process, e.g.what influences steroids choice of pathway to aromatase or DHT. According to the above chart it states 7% to DHT and .03% to aromatase without any influence from meds. Id like to see more information (numbers) on the conversion process, and what percentage are certain meds influence, e.g. when meds are introduced how "much" (in concentrations) are shifted?. Imo, that's the $64,000 dollar question, solve that and it opens the door to breast growth, and other conditions too. In men, prostrate cancer is ER mediated.

[Lotus]

Ladies,

Did you ever want to know the morphogenesis (or morphology) of breast tissue during a menstrual cycle?.....well here yah go. I've found increasing evidence (and not just this study) that progesterone and estrogen during luteal stage produced a 34 fold increase in breast tissue.

Morphological Changes in Breast Tissue with Menstrual Cycle

we found increased mitotic activity in the breast lobules in the luteal phase. Only on rare occasion was a mitotic figure, most likely persistent from the previous cycle, observed in the early follicular phase. This morphologic finding has been confirmed by studies that have compared the tritiated thymidine labeling indices in the follicular and luteal phases (26). The cumulative effect of high levels of estrogen and progesterone that occurs in the late luteal phase (21, 27) seems to be necessary to induce proliferation in breast epithelial cells. The proliferative activity appeared confined to the luminal epithelial cells. This finding is supported by experimental data (9, 28) that suggest that luminal cells can give rise to both luminal and myoepithelial cells. The breast epithelium, unlike the endometrium, cannot be shed at the end of the cycle; regression at the end of the cycle is by apoptosis. The apoptotic figures are plentiful toward the late luteal phase of the cycle (Stage 4). These findings have been previously described and are supported by quantitative assessments of apoptosis (21, 22).
http://www.nature.com/modpathol/journal/...80699a.pdf

Happy Growing,

[Lotus]

General averages of rates/ratios when consuming herbs

Q-How long does a capsule take to dissolve?

A-Typically the average is up to 20 minutes, some sources have at 5-10 minutes while others say 20-30 minutes. Extracts 1 to 4 minutes

Q-What are typical absorption results?

A-For skin application- 60%

A-Liquid- 98%

A-capsule- 10-20%

Q-What is the capsule to extract ratio?

A-20 to 1, meaning it would take 20 capsules to = 1 teaspoon of extract



Q-When is the best time to take an herb?

A-In general herbs are best taken on an empty stomach

When to supplement (timing)
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Hormones are released every 90 minutes, the binding of receptors takes 30-45 minutes upon activation. The process of supplementing should match that cycle (e.g. supplement every 4 hrs to correspond with the cycle rather than taking all at once, or in large dose).

When to supplement (timing)
-------------------------------------------------------------

Hormones are released every 90 minutes, the binding of receptors takes 30-45 minutes upon activation. The process of supplementing Should match that cycle (e.g. supplement every 4 hrs to correspond with the cycle rather than taking all at once, or in large dose).

For further information about timing and receptors see the following.

Receptor Regulation (how the timing of hormones work)
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=20747&page=5

[Pinnochia]

Whats needed for breast growth:

1) Estrogen- are a group of compounds named for their importance in both menstrual and estrous reproductive cycles. They are the primary female sex hormones. Natural estrogens are steroid hormones, while some synthetic ones are non-steroidal.

2) Progesterone -Progesterone is produced in the ovaries (by the corpus luteum), the adrenal glands (near the kidney), and, during pregnancy, in the placenta. Progesterone is also stored in adipose (fat) tissue. but it can also be increased through the use of natural progesterone cream, which is derived from soy or wild yam. PC can be useful for bio-males

3) Prolactin- Prolactin (PRL), also known as lactotrope, is a protein that in humans is probably best known for its role in enabling female mammals to produce milk, increases fat stores in the breasts. Massaging breasts stimulates prolactin.

4) Growth Hormone-also known as somatotropin or somatropin, is a peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction and regeneration in humans and other animals. It is a type of mitogen which is specific only to certain kinds of cells. Growth hormone is a 191-amino acid, single-chain polypeptide that is synthesized, stored, and secreted by somatotropic cells within the lateral wings of the anterior pituitary gland.

5) Testosterone -is converted into estrogen by a process called aromatase. The aromatase process takes place in the body’s fat cells, which create a special substance called an aromatase enzyme which converts excess testosterone into estrogen.

Definitions-

Androstenedione (andro) is produced by the testes, adrenal cortex and a small amount by the ovaries.

Androgen Dominance
Excessive androgens, relative to inadequate estrogen or progesterone levels, that are produced endogenously (within the body) or with supplementation can lead to symptoms of acne, increased facial/body hair, and loss of scalp hair.

Aromatase: An enzyme involved in the production of estrogen that acts by catalyzing the conversion of testosterone (an androgen) to estradiol (an estrogen).

Aromatase inhibitors(AIs) are a class of drugs used in the treatment of breast cancer and ovarian cancer in postmenopausal women. They may also be used off-label to treat or prevent gynaecomastia in men.
Aromatase is the enzyme that synthesizes estrogen. As breast and ovarian cancers require estrogen to grow, AIs are taken to either block the production of estrogen or block the action of estrogen on receptors.

Cortisol
Produced by the adrenal glands, this hormone regulates the stress response, glucose metabolism, and immune function. Cortisol has a catabolic (breaking down) action on tissue when levels are too high or out of balance, leading to low immunities, allergies, and stress-related illness.

Pro-Hormones -refers to a committed intra-glandular precursor of a hormone, usually having minimal hormonal effect by itself. The term has been used in medical science since the middle of the 20th century. Though not hormones themselves, prohormones amplify the effects of existing hormones. Examples of natural, human prohormones include proinsulin and pro-opiomelanocortin.

Potentiator-is a drug, herb, or chemical that intensifies the effects of a

The Three E's, (E1), (E2), (E3)
(E1)-Estrone (E1, and also oestrone) is an estrogenic hormone secreted by the ovary as well as adipose tissue,Estrone is the least abundant of the three hormones; estradiol is present almost always in the reproductive female body, and estriol is abundant primarily during pregnancy. (E2),Estradiol is about 10 times as potent as estrone and about 80 times as potent as estriol in its estrogenic effect (E3) Estriol is only produced in significant amounts during pregnancy as it is made by the placenta.

Estrogen receptors -are a group of proteins found inside cells. They are receptors that are activated by the hormone estrogen (17β-estradiol), ERα (alpha and ERβ (beta).....

Both ERs are widely expressed in different tissue types, however there are some notable differences in their expression patterns.

The ERα is found in endometrium, breast cancer cells, ovarian stromal cells, and the hypothalamus. In males, ERα protein is found in the epithelium of the efferent ducts.

The expression of the ERβ protein has been documented in ovarian granulosa cells, kidney, brain, bone, heart, lungs, intestinal mucosa, prostate, and endothelial cells.

Different ligands may differ in their affinity for alpha and beta isoforms of the estrogen receptor:

• 17-beta-estradiol binds equally well to both receptors
  
• estrone, and raloxifene bind preferentially to the alpha receptor
  
• estriol, and genistein to the beta receptor
  

Androgens also called androgenic hormone or testoid, is the generic term for any natural or synthetic compound, usually a steroid hormone, that stimulates or controls the development and maintenance of male characteristics in vertebrates by binding to androgen receptors.

Anti-androgens,-or androgen antagonists, first discovered in the 1960s, prevent androgens from expressing their biological effects on responsive tissues.Antiandrogens alter the androgen pathway by blocking the appropriate receptors, competing for binding sites on the cell's surface, or affecting androgen production.


Sex hormone-binding globulin-Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) or sex steroid-binding globulin (SSBG) is a glycoprotein that binds to sex hormones, to be specific, androgens and estrogens. Other steroid hormones such as progesterone, cortisol, and other corticosteroids are bound by transcortin.

Free testosterone-is a term that refers to the amount of testosterone in the bloodstream, usually tested in males with certain medical conditions. According to the American Association for Clinical Chemistry (AACC), free testosterone only accounts for 1-4 percent of the testosterone in a typical male's bloodstream.

5-ar - 5 alpha reductase - converts testosterone into dht.

Cyp 19 - Aromatase gene - Increases conversion of free testosterone to estrogen

DHT- Dihydrotestosterone - The most potent androgen, destroys fat, and masculinizes.

DHEA - Dehydroepiandrosterone - Building block hormone for everything else.

Steroidogenesis -is the biological process by which steroids are generated from cholesterol and transformed into other steroids.The pathways of steroidogenesis differ between different species – as an example the pathways of human steroidogenesis are shown in this figure below: The major classes of steroid hormones and some prominent members of the human steroidogenesis are:

Credit jacp114 (thank you)

Estrogenic Herbs:
Pueraria Mirifica - Awesome for breast growth.
Red Clover - Minor aromatase inhibitor, but highly estrogenic. Binds some to alpha estrogen receptors(boob growth receptor).
Hops - Not as estrogenic as PM or red clover, but activates alpha estrogen receptors which stimulate breast growth.

Pro-hormone's:
DHEA - The direct building block of other hormones
Fish oil - provides plenty of good fats and nutrients for hormone production.
FATS/Protein - Go to town. The more fats you take in the more your body has for hormone production. Cholesterol is a direct building block for all other hormones. No more 'light' anything. Whole and saturated fats.
Bovine ovaries - Also estrogenic, and I think pro-aromatase, as well as 5-AR inhibiting.

Pro-Aromatase:
Peony Root - Estrogenic, blocks 5ar and pro-aromatase - Strong.
genistein - Estrogenic and pro-aromatase
Licorice - Anti-androgenic and activates alpha and beta estrogen receptors and blocks 5-ar - Strong, but take in moderation! Link with more info.

Potentiators:
Dandelion root - Good for detoxing the liver, and upregulates estrogen receptors so your body uses the estrogen you are putting in.
Nettle Root - Binds to SHBG (hormone that binds to excess hormones decreasing hormone levels), and decreases 5ar and aromatase. Taking this tends to increase estrogen and testosterone. Would need to be taken with a pro-aromatase, and maybe estrogen.
PABA - Decreases breakdown of estrogen in your body so you have more free estrogen.
Gaba - Increases growth hormone
Grape fruit - Slow the breakdown of estrogen
Deer velvet - Increases growth hormone

Theory:
Breasts grow with a mixture of estrogen and growth hormone. This happens naturally, because your body reacts to estrogens by releasing growth hormone, but I'm thinking you could add supplement to this. Or that estrogen acts as the growth hormone. Bovine ovaries causes a whole cascade of estrogens and growth hormone release, which is why it seems like it is so effective.

So a solid cycle could look like:
1 estrogenic herb
1 pro-hormone
1 pro-aromatase
1 potentiator (vitamins/minerals, etc)
1 anti-androgen

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An androgen antagonist (anti-androgen) can broadly be defined as any compound that has the biological effect of blocking or suppressing the action of male sex hormones such as testosterone within the human body. DHT blocks the conversion of aromatase (bad for breast growth).[/color]
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Reishi-reishi mushrooms significantly reduced levels of 5-alpha reductase, preventing conversion of testosterone into the more potent DHT. High levels of DHT are a risk factor for conditions such as benign prostatatic hypertrophy (BPH), acne, and baldness.

White Peony--Estrogenic, blocks 5ar and pro-aromatase -(ethanol content from extracts increases aromatase) A compound found in white peony inhibits the production of testosterone and promotes the activity of aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen.

Spearmint-anti-androgenic properties reduce the level of free testosterone in the blood, while leaving total testosterone and DHEAS unaffected.

Green Tea Epigallocatechin-Green tea (camellia)-Reduce's the conversion of free testosterone into DHT and also raises SHBG (sex-hormone-binding-globulin).

Pygeum-include phytosterols that inhibit the production of dht. Pygeum also reduce's prolacting levels and block the accumulation of cholesterol in the prostate. Prolactin increase's the uptake of testosterone by the prostate. Pygeum reduces the levels of DHT in the blood and reduces the number of sites where the dht can attach.

Saw palmetto-Saw palmetto-Beta-sitosterol is a natural alpha-adrenergic receptor blocker. Prevents DHT from accumulating in prostate tissue that would otherwise cause excessive cell growth and inflammation. The plant steroids in saw palmetto also act on progesterone receptors, an action that causes a reduction in estrogen levels.

DIM is Diindolylmethane-It is an anti carcinogen and also improves estrogen metabolism. Plant-derived 3,3′-Diindolylmethane Is a Strong Androgen Antagonist in Human Prostate Cancer Cells* DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist, Taken with estrogen agonist, activities of DIM are seen as an hormone disrupter. DIM is the first example of a pure androgen receptor antagonist from plants.

Nettle Root--Binds to SHBG (hormone that binds to excess hormones by decreasing hormone levels), and decreases 5ar and aromatase. Taking this tends to increase estrogen and testosterone. Would need to be taken with a pro-aromatase, and maybe estrogen.

Nettle root can interfere with or block a number these hormone-related chemical processes in the body that are implicated in the development of BPH. In clinical research, nettle has demonstrated the ability to stop the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (by inhibiting aromatase, an enzyme required for the conversion), as well as to directly bind to SHBG itself - thereby preventing SHBG from binding to other hormones. Other research also reveals that nettles can prevent SHBG that has already bound to a hormone from attaching to the receptor sites on the prostate, as well as to decrease the production of estrogens (estradiol and estrone) by inhibiting an enzyme required for their production. The effect of nettle root on dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels has also made it a treatment for hair loss, as male pattern balding has often been linked to an excess of DHT, as has hair loss in women too.

Chinese Skullcap Inhibits the 5alpha-reductase enzyme-
Baicalein has been shown to inhibit the 5alpha-reductase enzyme, which converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is strongly associated with the development of prostate enlargement (benign prostatic hyperplasia) and prostate cancer. As such, baicalein is reported to be potentially useful for the prevention and/or treatment of androgen-dependent (testosterone-driven) disorders, including prostate enlargement and prostate cancer.

Licorice needs to be in the list
Use with extreme caution

Licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra)-Anti-androgenic and activates alpha and beta estrogen receptors and blocks 5-ar - Strong, but take in moderation!

Licorice is a flavorful substance that has been used in food and medicinal remedies for thousands of years. It is also known as “sweet root,” licorice root contains a compound that is about 50 times sweeter than sugar. It has been used in both Eastern and Western medicine to treat a variety of illnesses ranging from the common cold to liver disease. Licorice affects the endocrine system because it contains isoflavones (phytoestrogens), which are chemicals found in plants that may mimic the effects of estrogen and relieve menopausal symptoms and menstrual disorders. Licorice may also reduce testosterone levels, which can contribute to hirsutism in women.

A small clinical trial published in 2004 by Armanini and colleagues found that licorice root significantly decreases testosterone levels in healthy female volunteers. Women taking daily licorice root experienced a drop in total testosterone levels after 1 month and testosterone levels returned to normal after discontinuation. It is unclear as to whether licorice root affects free testosterone levels. The endocrine effect is thought to be due to phytoestrogens and other chemicals found in licorice root, including the steroid glycyrrhizin and glycyrrhetic acid, which also have a weak anti-androgen effect
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=5250

-Licorice root is the only herb that balances estrogen, stimulates prolactin, and blocks testosterone all at the same time. Licorice contains numerous phytoestrogenic compounds such as glabridin, glaberine, and 3-hydroxyglabrol.

Additional info on licorice root

-Beneficial for hypoglycemia, bronchitis, colitis, diverticulosis, gastritis, stress, colds, nausea, and inflammation. Cleanses the colon, promotes adrenal gland function, decreases muscle or skeletal spasms, and increases the fluidity of mucus from the lungs and bronchial tubes. Has estrogen-like hormone effects; changes the voice. Studies show licorice root stimulates the production of interferon. Warning: Do not use if you have high blood pressure."

-Lessen symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia. By enhancing cortisol activity, glycyrrhizin helps to increase energy, ease stress, and reduce the symptoms of ailments sensitive to cortisol levels, such as chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromylagia. In the 1800s, licorice extract was a common remedy for a type of persistent fatigue known as neurasthenia, the condition now known as chronic fatigue syndrome

-For most disorders: Take 200 mg standardized extract in pill form three times a day, or 20 to 45 drops, three times a day, of a 1:5 tincture. (The 1:5 tincture represents one part herb is soaked in five parts liquid

-Don't use licorice candy in place of supplements. Most red or black licorice candy sold in the United States contains anise oil as a flavoring rather than licorice. Candy made in Europe may contain licorice, but the quantities are not standardized.

-Licorice can raise blood pressure--a function of glycyrrhizin's action on the adrenal glands--so avoid taking more than the recommended dosage. If you take licorice for more than four weeks, have your blood pressure checked. (Stop taking the herb at the first sign of high blood pressure; this side effect is reversible.)

-At high doses taken over long periods of time, licorice can result in excessive salt loss from the blood, heart irregularities, and other serious health problems. Symptoms of this type of overdose may include headache, swelling, stiffness, shortness of breath, upper abdominal pain, and lethargy, among others.

Herbs/plant based and grains used for breast enlargement

• Alfalfa-Natural phytoestrogens, helps with menopausal symptoms, inhibits bone loss caused by estrogen deficiency

• Anise-Stimulates breast growth by increasing E, (1980 study published in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology)

• Ashwagandha-Adaptogen, restores a sense of well-being, similar to Panax ginseng

• Black cohosh-Appears to bind to estrogen receptors, mimics hormonal effects of estrogen, estriol

• Blessed thistle-Increases the flow of milk, (causes irritation of GI tract)
  

• Chaste tree-Corrects hormone imbalances, increases LH in favor of Estrogen, binds to ER-a (estrogen receptor alpha) progesterone receptor

• Chinese Skullcap-Inhibits 5-alpha-reductase enzyme
  

• Coconut Oil-Makes connective tissues stronger, superb antioxidant, neutralizes free radicals and slowing down aging, aids in breast feeding, nature's richest source of MCFAs. 5 ar inhibitor, aromatase
  

• Dandelion root-Upregulates estrogen receptors, useful for detox

• Damiana-For hormone imbalance, improve poor mammary gland development
  

• Dong Quai-Balance hormones, assists breast enlargement, improves gland function activities

• Fennel-Promotes milk production, nutrient rich for NBE growth, stimulates the growth of breast tissue

• Fenugreek-Prolactin source, phytoestrogen, adaptogen, lowers blood sugars (caution)
  

• Flax-Phytoestrogen, increases SHBG, source of omega-3 fatty acids, anti-estrogenic activity/aromatase
  

• Goats rue-Builds breast tissue and increases milk supply
  

• Hops-estrogen receptors alpha ER-a (which stimulates breast growth), increases SHBG which binds free testosterone
  

• Ladies Mantle--The Tannis (6-8%) in LM causes contractions, protects conjunctive and elastic tissues, contains salicylic acid (a mild painkilling action) for painful menstrual periods, It's astringent increases blood flow for circulation and helps with saggy breasts.
  

• Nettle root-Binds to SHBG, increases estrogen and testosterone
  

• Oats-Phytoestrogen, decreases SHBG, source of zinc, iron, vitamins B6, vitamin E and amino acids

• Licorice Root-Anti-androgenic, activates alpha and beta estrogen receptors and blocks 5-ar, DGL is thought to have fewer side effects

• Maca root-Abundant in amino acids, phytonutrients, healthy fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals, increase in energy and libido, adaptogen

• Marshmallow Root-Inhibits Hyaluronidase, increases tissue permeability
  

• Milk Thistle-Cleanses the liver of excess hormones
  

• PABA- Decreases breakdown of estrogen in your body so you have more free estrogen. (That's not a good thing necessarily, you want to speed up estrogen metabolism).
  

• Passion Flower-Calming agent that adds to total well being
  

• Pueraria Mirifica-Phytoestrogen, minor anti-androgen (daidzien), anti-estrogenic (ER-beta), miroestrol/dexymiroestrol bind to estrogen receptors (ER-a)
  

• Pygeum-Reduces the level of DHT, reduces prolacting levels, Inhibits 5-alpha reductase

• Red clover-Minor aromatase inhibitor, highly estrogenic, Binds to alpha estrogen receptor alpha (ER-a)
  

• Red raspberry--Balance hormones, promotes breast health
  

• Red Reishi-Significantly reduces levels of 5-alpha reductase (DHT)
  

• Saw palmetto-DHT inhibiting effect, acts on progesterone receptors (causing a reduction in estrogen levels)

• Shatavari-Phytoestrogen, normalizes estrogen levels, prolactin source, adaptogen
  

• Senna-To increase absorption and effectiveness of herbs, eliminates toxins
  

• Spearmint-Anti-androgenic properties, reduces the level of free testosterone in the blood, while leaving total testosterone and DHEAS unaffected

• Watercress-Increases energy, high in iron and vitamin E
  

• White peony root-Estrogenic, blocks 5-ar and pro-aromatase
  

• Wild yam-Stimulates hormone production, increases progesterone, prolactin, anti-androgen, and slows the metabolism of estrone, one of the body's own estrogens.
  

• Yogurt-Rich in vitamins, calcium and minerals, growth factors stimulate fibroblast proliferation, collagen, probiotic , and has lactic acid component

Always consult with a medical professional when having concerns about NBE and NBE supplements.

-More to follow-

Wow,, GREAT STUFF, short concise descriptions,, ultra informative crash course!! and i dont feel like i need a PHD to grow boobs,,, Thanks Lotus,,

[AlexisM]

Lotus:

"Q-When is the best time to take an herb?
A-In general herbs are best taken on an empty stomach."

Copied this from above.

Most herb bottles say something like "best taken with food."

What's the story here.

[iaboy]

Lotus:

"Q-When is the best time to take an herb?
A-In general herbs are best taken on an empty stomach."

Copied this from above.

Most herb bottles say something like "best taken with food."

What's the story here.

Here is what I do... Some herbs upset my stomach when empty. So I take them about 15 minutes before eating something, even if it's just a peanut butter sandwich.

Hope it helps.

[Roserose]

Lotus, this thread is so great! Thanks for taking ur time to compile the list for us! You re the best!

Btw need some advise for ladies, would u suggest vitex or PC ?

[AlexisM]

Lotus:

"Q-When is the best time to take an herb?
A-In general herbs are best taken on an empty stomach."

Copied this from above.

Most herb bottles say something like "best taken with food."

What's the story here.

Here is what I do... Some herbs upset my stomach when empty. So I take them about 15 minutes before eating something, even if it's just a peanut butter sandwich.

Hope it helps.

Taking herbs with food to prevent stomach upset makes sense. With drugs some are more effective with food and others are more effective on an empty stomach. The question is is there any evidence with respect to herbs and is it different for different herbs.

[iaboy]

I usually, like stated, take my herbs about 15 -20 mins before eating anything. That way, the capsules or tablets can start breaking down, but when followed by food, it calms the stomach.

It probably isn't the ideal way, but heck, FG and sometimes hops can upset my stomach otherwise.