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Chasteberry an anti androgen?
March 1 2006 at 8:51 PM SugarQ (no login)

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supposedly it is suppose to lower prolactin levels and by doing so can it work as an anti androgen.

jut to clarify for anyone that is interested. High Prolactin levels inhibits aromatization which is where testosterone gets converted into estrogen. so if chasteberry works to lower prolactin then theoretically it should lower testosterone levels two right?


i know this seems complicated when we all want higher prolactin levels for nbe. its hard to expain what im trying to do here. idont want anyone to worry about what they are doing just yet but for anyone with a high androgen problem i think we may got some issues.NBE may be a little bit more difficult.
im hoping molly would help me out here but if anyone has any insite i would be so glad to hear your opinions.




Steph
(no login) My QUICKY-speeding thru posts again reply lol March 1 2006, 10:03 PM


To my knowledge the Chastenberry is an anti-androgen,can be an SP alternitive and Ive never been big on the theory of raising Prolactin levels even though its ofton recommened for BE simply b/c Prolactin in general can be a "stresser" and therefore possibly not so great for BE anyway.




Sunset
(no login) What is the difference? March 1 2006, 10:09 PM


Is there a difference in "raising" prolactin levels and a prolactin "stimulator"? Or is it the same thing?




Lisa
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 1 2006, 10:19 PM


I have high androgen levels and I took vitex while doing NBE together with SP and Fenugreek, I never actually considered that it was an NBE herb until I read about it here just now :-).
Since I started taking it app. two weeks after I began my single herb routine I couldn't say if it made a difference, all I know is that I seem to be growing now fine without it, but I will have to see further into my routine how well I grow without it and if I might want to add it again.
The only reason I added it in the first place was because I was trying to get my hormone levels sorted out and a guy working in a health store told me that the vitex might just regulate them and maybe even get them back on track.
I think I better add this to my routine's page, I totally forgot all about taking it, I only remembered there and saw it when I went through my notes.

For anyone considering to take it, you aren't meant to use it long term, so 3-6 months is apparently ok but you aren't meant to take it any longer than that.





SugarQ
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 1 2006, 10:27 PM


well, you dont need elevated Prolactin to grow but it does help alot. prolactin works to inhibit testosterone conversion so if you got excess androgen its better not worry about doing massages and anything that increases prolactin. you may not need high dosages of fenugreek. maybe 1500mg the max. if you got excess androgen then you have low estrogen levels so its better to get those levels under control first before you add anything to increase prolactin to the mix.





SugarQ
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 1 2006, 10:46 PM


sunset i dont believe there is a difference. they both mean that you have to stimulate the adrenal gland. when you massage your breasts(mainly the nipple and areola) that actually stimulates the adrenal gland to release prolactin.






Sunset
(no login) ok March 1 2006, 10:57 PM


thank you SugarQ.
Also, are you saying that if you have low estrogen, then you would not recommend doing massages?




Lisa
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 1 2006, 11:01 PM


SugarQ, I don't think that it necessarily follows that when you have high androgen levels that your oestrogen levels are low. When I was diagnosed with elevated testosterone levels my oestrogen levels were fine despite that fact.
Just thought I would add that, and thanks for all the info, it really helped.




SugarQ
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 2 2006, 4:08 AM


if you have excess testosterone then you shouldnt have an estrogen problem the only problem is the testosterone will over shadow estrogens' effects. theoredically you shouldnt have an low estrogen if you got excess testosterone.

and,sunset, no im not saying if you are low estrogen then dont do the massages. i was just throwing out an idea if you were an excess testosterone lady. prolactin prevents testosterone from being aromatized into estrogen. so massages would prevent the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. so now the only way to do massages for NBE with success is to have an effective anti-androgen to block testosterone. or you can decide not to do the massages, lower prolactin in hopes that aromatization will bump up a little. also increasing cortisol(ive you are deficient) will help also with that.also hi insulin levels cause high testosterone levels. so if you are eating lots of carbs and refined surgars you have a great likely hood of develping insulin resistance in which case your body will pump out more insulin which increases testosterone levels. ive been researching some ways of dealing with excess testosterone but most of the stuff ive come up with dont seem to be safe.lol. i will keep looking,.




Molly
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 2 2006, 2:33 PM


I would say chasteberry is not an anti-androgen. It's true that it reduces prolactin levels and that low prolactin allows testosterone to be converted to estrogen. However, it also increases LH (luteinizing hormone) which increases the body's production of testosterone. I believe that this is an established fact, in the male body at least. I don't think the action of chasteberry on testosterone production in the female body has ever been studied. Chasteberry is actually sold as a male supplement to increase testosterone levels for those who feel they are lacking in it. Therefore, if you take chasteberry hoping for an anti-androgen effect, you may find that the outcome is entirely the opposite to what you expected and that androgen levels in the body actually increase. The main function of chasteberry in the female body is to increase progesterone, but it's likely that androgen levels will increase too, although some people dispute this. As I said, the effect of increased LH on testosterone production has only been studied in males, so the position for females is not entirely clear.




Steph
(no login) Thanku Molly March 2 2006, 2:47 PM


For adding "the other side" to it and I have a question if u dont mind,what are the differences between Chastenberry and the Vitex?,not sure if thats the spelling,and is the Vitex a more "female" version of the CB?? Any feedback is welcome!




Sunset
(no login) SugarQ March 2 2006, 3:12 PM


First of all thatnks for answering my question. Secondly I found some pretty interesting things about Chasteberry. Read on if interested:

CHASTEBERRY
TRADITIONAL USAGES
Chasteberry has been used since anctient times as a female remedy.
One of it's properties was known to reduce sexual desire,and it is recorded that Roman wives whose husbands were abroad with the legions spread the aromatic leaves on their couches for this purpose. It became known as the chasteberry tree.
During the Middle Ages, Chasteberry's supposed effect on sexual desire led to it becoming a food spice at monasteries, where it was called "Monk's pepper" or "Cloister pepper."
In tradition, it was also known as an important European remedy for controlling and regulating the female reproductive system. Long used to regularize monthy periods and treat amenorrhea and dysmenorrhea, it also helped ease menopausal problems and aided the birth process.
The fruit's peppermint-like odor comes from volatile oils.
RECENT SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS
Chasteberry has not been significantly investigated for its therapeutic effects. However, preliminary investigations do indeed show the presence of compounds which are able to adjust the production of female hormones. It is thought to contain a progesterone-like compound and is now thought to be useful in the following conditions:Amenorrhea,Dysmenorrhea,PMS,Endometriosis.
The chemical constituents are the monoterpens agnuside,eurostoside,and aucubin. Chasteberry also contains the flavonoids casticin,chryso-splenol and vitexin. While it is not known which constituent is responsible for its beneficial effects,it has been shown in laboratory animals in German experiments that extacts of Angus Castus can stimulate the release of Leutenizing hormone (LH) and inhibit the release of Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH). An early German study with laboratory animals found that extracts of Chasteberry can stimulate the release of (LH) and inhibit tje release of (FSH). This hormonal effect has been confirmed in another laboratory report which suggests that the volatile oil has a progesterone-like effect.
Employing an aqueous extract from the fruit,Agnolyt, a 1979 study reported good results on premenstrual water retention. Another study of Agnolyt discovered that women were able to sustain a good level of milk production for breast feeding.While it took some time for the drug to take effect, the women were able to continue use of the drug for months without harmful side effects.






Molly
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 2 2006, 4:04 PM


Chasteberry is just a common name for Vitex in the same way that Starflower is a common name for Borage.




SugarQ
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 2 2006, 4:38 PM


thanks Sunset and molly. i know that Lutinizing hormone is suppose to increase testosterone in men and i know that chasteberry also increased lutinizing hormone but i want too sure if the same thing would happen in females. thanks for answering my question. now its back to the drawing board for me. lol




Lisa
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 2 2006, 5:22 PM


Okay, I found an article on Hirsutism that quotes Agnus Castus as being used to treat it, it is at the very bottom!

"Hirsutism can definitely be labeled a hair-raising problem in a woman. And those who suffer from it tend to produce elevated levels of male sex hormones called androgens from their ovaries and adrenal glands. This results in an excessive growth of dark, coarse body and facial hair.

The cause of hirsutism has been identified as being due to medications, which cause excessive hair growth like phenytoin, minoxidil, diazoxixde, cydosporine and hexachlorobenzone. Its cause can also be attributed to HRT, anabolic steroids, birth control pills, danazol and anorexia. Other causes are obesity, severe insulin resistance, tumors on the adrenal glands or ovaries and Cushing Syndrome.

The signs and symptoms which are indicative of hirsutism are hair growth on the abdomen, breasts and upper lip; irregular menstrual period, loss of feminine body shape and formation of masculine traits such as a deep voice, frontal balding, enlarged shoulders and muscles among others.

There is no specific medication for hirsutism though certain medicines may be used for suppression of the production and secretion of androgens in the body. These include: gluco corticoids, spironolactone and certain birth control pills. Other procedures include tumor and ovary removal.

It was discovered that acupuncture helped reduce both hair density and length while significantly reducing the levels of male sex hormones testosterone. Herbalists have recommended herbs such as Black Cohosh (Cimicifuga Racemose), Goats Rue (Galegae Officinalis Herba), Fenugreek (Trigonella foenum-graecum),and Chaste tree (Vitex agnus-castus) to relieve the symptoms."





Lisa
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 2 2006, 5:25 PM


Another site says:

"Vitex agnus-castus (chastetree berry) has traditionally been used to treat menstrual irregularities and improve fertility. It is thought that vitex normalizes LH (luteinizing hormone). High levels of LH contribute to androgen production.(20) Vitex is an important herb for natural treatment of PCOS."





Steph
(no login) Ok..now I am confused... March 2 2006, 5:56 PM


Molly-thanku very much for answering my question:-).Now lets recap ok,I "thought" Chastenberry WAS an anti-androgen,Molly says it MAY NOT be,now Lisa is siting that it IS and SugarQ ur saying ur just "not sure"??? Anybody got a BOTTOM LINE yet (besides the typical "not sure yet"lol )??




Molly
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 2 2006, 6:49 PM


Opinions seem divided, but some definitely regard vitex as increasing testosterone.

See http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._n13653752

which states "The active components in Vitex agnus-castus are known as agnusides, which lessen prolactin. Although prolactin is thought of as a female hormone, like estrogen, even males have some. While you sleep, prolactin levels rise. High amounts of prolactin can decrease testosterone production. Supplementing with Vitex agnus-castus can ensure that your testosterone levels aren't being blunted."

And see http://www.testosterone2u.co.uk/1185.htm

which states "Vitex agnus-castus increases the natural production of Testosterone."

And finally see http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:yuTS...sterone+in+
men&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5

which states "Vitex, even though it elevates Testosterone, is included in M due to its ability to reduce prolactin levels — a hormone that induces lactation (even in males). So the fact that Vitex actually boosts Testosterone is a nifty secondary effect to M's primary function."





Lisa
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 2 2006, 8:22 PM


Steph, all this has gotten me really confused as well, so here is another quote and it clearly states at the bottom that it has a "mild" androgenic effect, which kind of makes sense from other links that say that it lowers LH and with this prolactin levels, from which I would conclude what SugarQ explained at the start of the thread.


http://www.organicfood.co.uk/vms/agnuscastus.html

"Agnus Castus
Chaste Tree / Vitex

The basic mechanism of action underlying agnus castus is its effect on enhancing corpus luteal development (thereby correcting a relative progesterone deficiency) via effects through the pituitary gland. Agnus castus has a profound effect on the hypothalamus and on pituitary function, helping normalise other hormones and reducing both prolactin and the estrogen-to-progesterone ratio.

* PREMENSTRUAL SYNDROME - Many PMS sufferers exhibit elevated prolactin levels, especially in women experiencing breast pain or fibrocystic breast disease. Studies in PMS sufferers using agnus castus have shown up to ninety percent having improvement or resolution of symptoms.
* MENSTRUATION DISORDERS - Agnus castus has demonstrated effectiveness in aiding menstruation disorders including; secondary amenorrhoea, metorrhagia, lengthened and shortened cycles, especially when due to progesterone deficiency.
* ANTI-MICROBIAL ACTIVITY - Extracts of agnus castus have shown antimicrobial activity against a broad range of organisms including; staphylococcus aureus, salmonella, E. coli, and candida albicans. This may offer additional benefits, as dysbiosis is a common problem and may aggravate existing menstrual disorders.
* INFERTILITY - Research suggests that agnus castus can enhance corpus luteal functioning, thus lengthening the luteal phase and normalising progesterone levels often found to be low in infertile women.
* INFLUENCE ON LACTATION - Studies have shown favourable effects in aiding milk production (up to three times that of control group), after 20 days of use.
* ACNE - Controlled studies have shown that agnus castus may offer benefit to acne sufferers, most likely due to a mild anti-androgenic effect."




Jennelle
(no login) Re: Chasteberry an anti androgen? March 2 2006, 8:46 PM


It doesn't "clearly state" that it has a mild androgenic effect at all. It actually says "most likely".

[admin]

What is Vitex?
January 23 2007 at 6:39 PM cheryl (Login cookie1000)
I was reading info about Vitex, what exactly is it and has anyone had success with it, i am currently just doing cocoa butter massages and was wondering if adding vitex would be beneficial,also would like to know if its available in ontario




Jennelle
(Login Jenneelle)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: vitex
January 25 2007, 10:45 AM

Chasteberry / Vitex Agnus Castus is one of the world's most commonly used herbs. It would be very surprising if it couldn't be found in Ontario.



Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Hey Cheryl,,,
January 25 2007, 11:54 AM

I am in Ontario, Canada!!! My local health food store could only get from 'THEIR" suppliers in very low doses,,80mgs,, not nearly enough!! Ordered from the Vitiamin Shop in BC. So good luck.



cheryl
(Login cookie1000)
how much vitex
January 25 2007, 1:42 PM

Thanks Snowflake for your reply, If we can only get vitex in 80 mg tablets, how much vitex should we be taking a day in order to have progress with it



cheryl
(Login cookie1000)
vitex
January 25 2007, 2:01 PM

Hey for ontario girls who are looking for vitex in a larger dose, Nature's Way Vitex has 400mg capsules available, Nature's Way is pretty popular brand, i purchase my dandelion root from them



Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Hey Cheryl,,
January 26 2007, 11:58 AM

80mgs is not nearly enough,, you would have to take way tooo many pills,, upping your cost drastically. Find something with 400mgs per capsule.



cheryl
(Login cookie1000)
vitex
January 26 2007, 1:46 PM

Hey Snowflake i found vitex in a 450 mg cap yesterday, it is made by Herbal Select and is called Vitex Plus,, bought it in the london ontario area



Anonymous
(no login)
Re: vitex
January 26 2007, 6:28 PM

i seem to shrink from vitex, believe it or not. tried it a couple of times but i don't think it works for me



Anonymous
(Login lil_dunny)
Re: vitex
January 26 2007, 6:30 PM

i seem to shrink from vitex, believe it or not. tried it a couple of times but it doesn't seem to work for me



Linz
(no login)
Lil Dunny
January 27 2007, 2:10 PM

Hey there.

I don't seem to have much luck with vitex - from what I've read I'm wondering if it works if only you've had children?

Do you have children? How about everyone else?

Also, my estrogen dominance symptoms are secondary ammerohea - my periods have started again (sometimes a bit early)- maybe it works better if your primary ED symptom is bad pms.

So no breast increase but its early days (first month!).



cheryl
(Login cookie1000)
Re: vitex
January 29 2007, 2:57 PM

yes i do have children, just wondering that would make a difference with the effects of vitex... can you tell me where you read this info.. thanks



Holly
(Login Holly34)
Re: vitex
January 29 2007, 8:43 PM

I have the same 80mg bottle but it is an extract. Does your's say extract on it?




Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: vitex
January 30 2007, 11:09 AM

The 80mg size might not be a low dose, but actually a very high dose, because vitex agnus castus is sometimes supplied in a 10:1 extract. Therefore the 80mg size may well be equivalent to 800mg of whole herb.



cheryl
(Login cookie1000)
Re: vitex
January 30 2007, 3:08 PM

my vitex are 450 mg capsules, with the ingredients as 100mg fruit extract and 350 mg chasteberry powder, the instruction call for 1 or 2 capsules daily, does that sound like enough for nbe



tati
(no login)
Re: vitex
February 3 2007, 8:17 AM

i was doing cocoa butter and added vitex recently, i really do think it is helping.not only that , my skin looks wayyy clearer!



cheryl
(Login cookie1000)
Re: vitex
February 3 2007, 12:13 PM

i started vitex 2 weeks ago along with doing my cocoa butter massages and have also found it is helping already, i also take dandelion root for water retention..Being on vitex for only 2 weeks also helped menses this month, i know they say it takes a couple months but what a change already, made this month alot better already



taurusgirl22
(no login)
vitex
February 3 2007, 9:54 PM

thats exactly what ive been doing doing a couple of massages with vitex twice a day I started last month on jan 23rd which has been about 2 weeks. I dont know but the other day I had itchyness when I woke up and sometimes it feels firmer but right now its softer but I know I have grown a tiny bit. Which is pretty good in 2 weeks.



Blessed
(no login)
Re: vitex
February 5 2007, 12:01 AM

I just responded about this to another thread as well but worth repeating.......started my period today with no painful cramping whatsoever (they have always been an issue for me thanks to endemetriosis) so whether it helps my breasts or not I am still joining the 'Vitex Fan Club' so to speak.



cheryl
(Login cookie1000)
Re: vitex
February 5 2007, 1:33 PM

I know i will be on Vitex permanently if it helps the monthly crisis, I have sufffered immensely for 3 years, almost considering a hysterectomy because of it, but for 12 bucks a month i will worship vitex.. I've also started getting some growth pains after only 2 weeks along with cocoa butter massages.



Nicola
(no login)
Re: vitex
February 5 2007, 4:06 PM

I am thinking of adding vitex to my routine but I am worried that it may interfere with my contraceptive pill (cilest), has anyone else found this or read anything on it?



cheryl
(Login cookie1000)
Re: vitex
February 6 2007, 3:27 PM

i don't think i've read anything on here about Vitex affecting BCP, I know there were a few questions about it but not sure whether anyone replied,


Also would like to hear from anyone who had progress with Vitex. I am currently taking 2vitex daily, 1 wild yam capsule and dandelion root for water retention. Have been experiencing some aches after 2 weeks.



dandelion
(Login dandelion1)
Re: vitex
February 7 2007, 2:20 AM

I've been using vitex for a month, in tincture form i use 1ml=500mg of dry herb, and i rub it into my stomach (the tincture is alcohol based so i didnt want to rub it in directly into my breasts). this is my first period without any cramps!! so vitex definitly has demostrated its power

[admin]

Chasteberry / Vitex Agnus Castus
January 15 2007 at 6:02 PM Mingmei (Login Mingmei)
Why are herbs always referred to in this forum by their common name, except the above which is generally referred to by it's botanical name, or at least a part of it's botanical name?




Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Chasteberry / Vitex Agnus Castus
January 15 2007, 8:41 PM

Probably because people don't like the idea of being chaste as suggested by the common name and they therefore opt for the latin name instead (or some part of the latin name).




Jennelle
(Login Jenneelle)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Chasteberry / Vitex Agnus Castus
January 16 2007, 12:03 PM

The strange thing about this herb is not people's preference for the botanical name, but the fact that it has been such a popular herb for so long without anyone appearing to notice that it influences breast size. Given that it's one of the world's most popular herbs, I would have expected that any tendency for it to increase breast size would be well known.



Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
I would have to agree,,
January 16 2007, 12:17 PM

With Jennelle on this one,, why has vitex not been discovered as a breast enlarger before this??? I had never heard of it before these posts in the last couple of months. And I don't remember seeing it in breast formulas. Its not even widely promoted for a women's fix all supplement (at least not here) like EPO or wild yam or dong quai. so I have to wonder about this too!!



gingerD
(Login gingerD)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Chasteberry / Vitex Agnus Castus
January 16 2007, 12:20 PM

i think u remember the name easier Angus castus just seems more meorable to me -some one said it b4 scotish mexican



Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Yes,, vitex
January 16 2007, 12:28 PM

Is easy to remember!! But with all the breast enhancement formulas popping out of the states,,,( I'm in Canada) A person would think that they would use it more in their products. My local health food store couldn't even get it with 400mgs. I had to order from British Columbia for it. I'm in Ontario. But sometimes I think that western cultures are still far behind Europe when it comes to herbs!!! Just a thought and just my opinion!!!



gingerD
(Login gingerD)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Chasteberry / Vitex Agnus Castus
January 16 2007, 1:16 PM

hey snowflake have i missed yr point-Im sorry,r u saying u distrust the product or your just frustarted u cant get it (Im sorry im pretty thick at times heads like knocking on wood)
im not actually using the stuff myself yet but you are right its very widley available in the uk,i have found it on ebay from us sellers in pill form , im looking into canada.
Hows yr routine going by the way?, u good?

Lv GingerD



gingerD
(Login gingerD)
SENIOR MEMBER
PS.-just found this
January 16 2007, 1:19 PM

Im not sure if this has been mentioned b4 but i did just find this

Caution: Agnus Castus should not be taken in conjunction with Progesterone supplements.



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Chasteberry / Vitex Agnus Castus
January 16 2007, 1:41 PM

Vitex tends to not work when taken with other herbs, so that explaines the lack of it in commercial products. As for its individual reputation as a herb, good question.




Moonkissed
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Chasteberry / Vitex Agnus Castus
January 17 2007, 1:28 AM

The reason was that the herb did not become popular on this forum until one poster said it increased her breast size, and used the name Agnus Castus. After that, the name stuck, although before, I remember it being referred to as chasteberry on various occasions.

[admin]

about agnus castus
March 26 2007 at 7:28 PM Anonymous (no login)
Why do you think it helps with NBE?It decreases prolactin levels(we massage to raise them),estrogen levels(we take estrogenic herbs to raise them) and increases testosterone and progesterone levels.I can't understand how it helps you with NBE




melosh
(Login melosh)
Re: about agnus castus
March 26 2007, 9:47 PM

Dear Anonymos
I have a theory about how agnus cactus could grow breasts. But remember this is just my guesswork.

It must help lower androgen levels especially testostrone because vitex users say it completely cleared their acne in 3 months.

Most women have high estrogen levels, even women with no breasts usually have high estrogen levels but I assume those high levels of estrogen are directly raising androgens and turning into testostrone instead of doing it`s other jobs in the body. Vitex must be NOT letting estrogen TURN into androgens so it stays at it`s elevetad levels and ON IT`s OWN.

It must be also increasing progestrone levels so estrogen is not too high compared to estrogen. In other words I guess as it keeps high estrogen levels from turning into androgen it also increases progestrone levels to match high estrogen levels. Low androgen levels+high estrogen+high progestrone= breast growth.

Ladies please share your ideas about this theory.

Best of luck to everyone




Moonkissed
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: about agnus castus
March 26 2007, 10:37 PM

Vitex does not decrease prolactin. One study found that low doses of vitex increased prolactin in women, and even in men. When articles usually mention that prolactin levels decrease, they neglect to mention that this is usually due to increased levels of prolactin already present in the body, which typically leads to a condition called hyperprolactinaemia.

Concerning testosterone, vitex has been found to increase this hormone in men (rather ironic if one considers this herb's history with chastity), but there is no solid evidence to suggest it does so in women. With estrogen, vitex does appear to favour the luteinizing hormone in lieu of the follicle stimulating hormone, which is why this herb is recommended for women with estrogen dominance, or progesterone deficiency. However, some articles on vitex mention that this herb acts overall to restore proper hormone levels, which seems to suggest that one's estrogen will not lower if it is excreted in its proper amount for the body in the first place. The estrogen levels will only change if something is wrong to begin with.

[admin]

Vitex followers
March 22 2007 at 12:32 AM Anonymous (no login)
Why did anyone start taking Vitex in the first place???

It seems to me, by reading the majority of the women's complaint posts on here, that vitex is a HORRIBLE addition to NBE.

Please tell me you guys weren't following someone blindly.
I know that's what NBE is about,(well, should be more about research than trial and error) but now it's clear that vitex doesn't do a thing for NBE.





faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Vitex followers
March 22 2007, 10:42 AM

Huh? How is vitex a horrible addition to NBE pray tell?

Vitex is the BEST herb I've EVER used :-D

Just wish I'd researched and taken it years ago.

For starters, it has stopped years of severe period cramps and PMS. It has cleared up 30 years of acne problems.......and after trying every pill, potion, lotion, med, treatment possible, I thought that nothing ever would, but vitex has! It has raised my libido and given me lots of energy......and yes I have had growth and fullness on it :-)

The way I think/feel it works is this - When most girls reach puberty, all of their hormones kick in at the right time and they develop into women as they should do, breasts, hips, healthy periods etc.

Now for some of us not so fortunate, I feel that when we reached puberty, all of the vital hormones didn't switch on properly like there was an imbalance or a blockage in the receptor signals.....not quite sure. But speaking personally, when I reached puberty, all that happened was I started having painful nasty periods and that was it. No breast growth, slight if any hip growth, plus I got acne which never cleared up all of my adult life.

After researching LOTS about vitex and reading that it actually balances your own hormones out, I decided to give it a try as I had always felt that was exactly what I needed........balanced hormones, and eventually it began to work for me. At the age of 42, I now have breasts (albeit, small ones), clear skin and curvy hips after going through 30 previous years of misery with a boy-like figure.

Personally, I feel that girls who developed with no problems at puberty, may not benefit from vitex in the same way. All women to do not grow large boobs. For some, an A or B cup is adequate growth for their frames/physique etc. But if they have grown to say an A or B cup at puberty.....then they grew!!! Which means, their hormones did what they were supposed to do at the time. Some of us never grew at all, and that is the difference.

I can't see vitex being of much, if any benefit (in the NBE department) to women who have been a larger cup size then deflated due to breastfeeding or losing weight or whatever. I can only see it helping those who never grew past the boy-flat stage of childhood. Course vitex will still benefit those women in other non-NBE ways.

I may be wrong, but after studying this for so long, there appears to be a common link between post-pubescents with no breast growth, acne and painful periods......although there are exceptions.

x



LovelyAmanda
(Login LovelyAmanda)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Vitex followers
March 22 2007, 5:01 PM

Yeah I agree with Faerycat 100%. I have no complaints with Vitex and I've been using it for almost three months. My moods are better, skin is great, no "shrinkage," and my libido has increased. Plus I feel tingles. No complaints here. We also have to keep in mind that some of the people with complaints are taking Vitex with other herbs and other products. I, however, am not until I give Vitex the full amount of time it needs to work. So anyone who is on it and has stuck with it, don't give up and stay focused. Like many of us already know, Vitex is a SLOW-acting herb and it takes sometimes up to 4-6 months to reach its full effects.

Best,
Amanda



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Vitex followers
March 22 2007, 5:04 PM

I would like to compare those who had success with it to those who shrunk in what their hormonal imbalance was. Did anyone try vitex who didn't have estrogen dominance or any significant imbalance?




Moonkissed
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Vitex followers
March 22 2007, 9:27 PM

I cannot say that in my case, I was following someone blindly. I started taking chasteberries last October to help mainly with PMS and also with NBE (sort of killing two birds with one stone). Although there was little information about vitex in use of NBE, it *was* used for this purpose, nonetheless, and some women were using it before the mad rush to suddenly start using vitex. I read through many pages on chasteberries, and had to make up my own mind as to whether it would be useful to take. It meant browsing through site after site, and sifting through the sometimes contradictory information. Heck, one site even said that vitex did nothing for breast growth. One has to really make up one's mind as to whether this is going to work, or whether one can expect three or four months to go down the drain, if the vitex did not work.

Now, one inch of breast growth later, and better PMS to boot, I consider vitex to be one awesome herb for me. Even after I finish my NBE, I will still take chasteberries just for the PMS benefits alone.

We must remember that not every single NBE herb will work for every person. How many women have taken saw palmetto or fenugreek and saw no results? Or even products such as Wonderup? I have seen countless threads with women complaining about how some herbs did nothing for them. Does that mean we should immediately discard the herbs and never mention them again? If we only used herbs that every woman or man agreed had worked for NBE, we would be left with... nothing. That's right, zero, zip, nada. No one herb has been proven effective for *every* person. This is a trial and error process.

-------------------------
Those who cannot remember the past will spend a lot of time looking for their cars in mall parking lots. -- Jay Trachman




Interwom
(no login)
Re: Vitex followers
March 22 2007, 9:31 PM

Someone called Karen said it worked for her and that sparked a mad rush. I don't know if that's what you mean by blindly. People were aware at the time it was just one person's reported experience that they were reacting to.



Lillix
(no login)
Re: Vitex followers
March 23 2007, 12:48 AM

Anonymous — you sound bitter. It sounds like you used vitex yourself, and then became disenchanted when it did nothing for you. Why else would you come on here and whine about why people are using vitex when it’s not working, and blah, blah, blah. It works apparently. Why try to bring those girls down? Just because a few girls didn't get their results doesn’t mean it won’t work for all. I don’t use vitex, but geez Louise, I’m getting bored of all these threads with girls b*tching about how vitex didn’t help them. Some herbs just don’t work for everybody, ladies. Get over it, and move on, and continue to lend support to those who have had success.



Julie
(no login)
Re: Vitex followers
March 23 2007, 2:02 PM

Can you tell me what a good dosage of Vitex is? DO you follow what the amount on the bottle says, or follow your own dosages?? I am considering buying Vitex because I am thinking I am estrogen dominant!! When on the BE board they had the links to take quizzes and It did say I was estrogen dominant, I would love to have this stupid acne to go away. I never had acne as a teenager and now that I am in my later 20's I have acne all the time. I am hateful and grouchy during ovulation all the way up to menstration too, so any advice on this would be greatly appreciated?



Anonymous
(no login)
lillix
March 24 2007, 1:06 AM

I've never taken Vitex, nor do I have desires to.
I'm simply bitching about how everyone was bitching about it in the first place without knowing what they were getting themselves into.
'tis all.
Oh and I already support a lot of the lovely ladies on here

[admin]

I am confused about Vitex!
January 16 2007 at 8:39 PM Katrina (Login mountainkat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Okay, I have been reading that Vitex decreases prolactin, but from most websites I have read that prolactin is necessary for breast enhancement and you wan't to increase your prolactin! So how does women grow with Vitex if this is the case?

Also, if vitex is a progesterone based herb as I have read on here, then wouldn't it cause problems if used long-term because you need more estrogen to grow breasts and it seems to lower estrogen!

I would appreciate anyone's advice who can clear up my confusion.




faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: I am confused about Vitex!
January 16 2007, 9:19 PM

Vitex is not a progesterone based herb!!!

How does vitex help?
First of all, what does it not do? Vitex does not act as a phytoestrogen (plant estrogen), a term commonly associated with balancing the female reproductive system. Vitex works through another important chemical pathway, the hypothalamus-pituitary axis, to balance female hormones. Vitex increases luteinizing hormone production while inhibiting the release of follicle stimulating hormone, leading to an indirect increase in progesterone and a normalization of prolactin levels. The combination of actions produced by vitex seems to restore the estrogen/progesterone balance.

http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T165057.html

x




faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: I am confused about Vitex!
January 16 2007, 9:24 PM

Lol! I like the paragraph near the bottom of the page of the link I just posted. It says -

1) Your attitude determines your outcome. Successful people embrace this truth, whether it is a doctor going into surgery, a pastor preparing a sermon or a business-person launching a new venture. Confidence increases your chance of success every time. When you approach a task, especially one you do not relish, fix your mind on the facts, not your feelings. That will put your attitude on the right track.
2) Your attitude toward others determines their attitude toward you. Smile at people and they will probably smile back. Act hard-nosed and they are likely to snap at you. If you want to enjoy people as you go through your day, treat them well. This is not rocket science, but it is easily forgotten - and it is scriptural!
3) Your attitude gives you the winning edge. When world heavyweight champion Joe Louis got knocked down by Tony 'Two Ton' Galento in Yankee Stadium, he immediately jumped back to his feet and went after his opponent. When his trainer protested saying, 'Why didn't you stay down for nine?' Louis said, 'What! And give him a chance to rest.' Louis went out in the fourth round and won the fight. Possessing a great attitude always gives you the winning edge.
4) Your attitude, not your achievements, brings happiness. Samuel Johnson, the 18th Century poet, stated, 'He who has so little knowledge of human nature as to seek happiness by changing anything but his own disposition, will waste his life in fruitless efforts, and multiply the grief which he purposes to remove.' Think about it!

Positive attitude comin' at ya!

x



Katrina
(Login mountainkat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: I am confused about Vitex!
January 16 2007, 9:33 PM

Okay, but doesn't it still decrease prolactin, which is need for breast enlargement?




Moonkissed
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: I am confused about Vitex!
January 17 2007, 1:24 AM

From what I read, vitex does not decrease prolactin, but rather normalizes the hormone. It appears to lower prolactin only in women who are suffering with hyperprolactinemia.

*Vitex and hyperprolactinemia*

The modulating effect of Vitex on Prolactin was confirmed in a double blind placebo trial examining the effect of a proprietary Vitex preparation on 52 women. The daily doses of Vitex extract was 20mg and the study lasted for three months. Hormonal analysis was performed on day 5–8 and day 20 of the cycle both before and after three months of the therapy. Prolactin release was significantly reduced in the Vitex group. Shortened luteal phases and deficits in progesterone production were normalised. No side effects were noted.

(http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Art...tkin23.htm)

[admin]

About Vitex
January 3 2007 at 12:53 PM Liz (Login Liz1967)
I read this:

Agnus Castus has been used since ancient times to reduce female sexual desire. It's also used for regulating hormones and relieving menstrual difficulties, and is considered the best herb for ailments such as fibroid cysts of the uterus and endometriosis


Is this true? Anyone taking Vitex can say something about this?




Jess
(Login IttyBittyTitty)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: About Vitex
January 3 2007, 2:54 PM

Hey Liz!

I've only been on Vitex for about 3 weeks but so far do decrease in desire. No particular increase either, but I don't know if I've been on it long enough to really tell. It may take a couple months?? There's lots of girls here who have been on it for a while and I don't think they've reported anything like that. It makes me wonder if the whole "chaste" thing is an old wives tale that stuck.

. . . .)\_ _/( . .IttyB
--=(__/^\__)==-



Liz
(Login Liz1967)
Re: About Vitex
January 3 2007, 3:51 PM

Hey Jess,

how are you on Vitex? Is it working? I'm on WU and thinking about adding Vitex but when I read about the sexual stuff I felt afraid...




Epiphany
(Login Epiphany.)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: About Vitex
January 3 2007, 6:17 PM

According to the Vortex Health site (www.vortexhealth.com), the belief in Ancient times that chasteberry reduced sexual desire was not limited to it's effect on women, as apparently monks took it for the same reason.




Jess
(Login IttyBittyTitty)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: About Vitex
January 3 2007, 6:49 PM

It's only been a couple weeks so as far as its NBE benefits I don't know yet. They say Vitex takes a couple cycles to kick in. But so far I haven't had any negative issues from any of the things I'm taking. I would not worry about the sexual issues. Even if it does affect it for some people, there's nothing saying it would do that for you. And if it does you could always go off it and try something else. A lot of the NBE herbs tend to increase desire anyway I think so that would balance it out probably. :-)




Moonkissed
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: About Vitex
January 4 2007, 12:44 AM

I have been taking chasteberries for three months, and have noticed no decrease in sexual desire. No increase, either. From what I read, chasteberries mainly work in reducing desire in men, because it lowers testosterone.



violet
(Login _violet_)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: About Vitex
January 4 2007, 1:55 AM

It has only been a few weeks (maybe around 1 month) sice I started taking the vitex, but I haven't noticed any decrease in my libido.



sad
(no login)
re.about vitex
January 4 2007, 2:59 AM

i must say it did lower my libido and caused my natural inclination towards depression to increase significantly. i stopped taking it and now feel much better. however, as others have stated-herbs affect people differently.



Liz
(Login Liz1967)
Re: About Vitex
January 4 2007, 10:02 AM

Thanks a lot Sad for your information because I was on depressive pills until November and now I decided not to try Vitex. It is not without reason it is called the pill of chast people. we must be very alert to this tipe of simtoms. Big Booobs on unhappy people it is not god.




faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: About Vitex
January 4 2007, 1:01 PM

Pot 3 of vitex and my libido is through the roof!!!

Kind of awful really as I'm married to a guy who hates women and sex and who won't even sleep in the same part of the house as me, let alone share my bed.

Will just have to keep taking cold showers.........lol!! OR find a new and real man........hahah!!!

x



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: About Vitex
January 4 2007, 2:00 PM

I haven't been on Vitex very long just a few weeks, and currently my libido is going alot stronger then normal, don't know if it will change as I am on it longer or not, but its kinda nice as I really never had a sex drive to begin with.

A note on the depression though, and again not sure if its related or just still adjusting. I haven't had to take any of my meds since about the fifth day on vitex. This is the most normal I have felt in a long time. I am really hoping it stays like this ~ even dh commented on it, so I don't think its just me seeing things.



AshLEY Copping
(no login)
Re: About Vitex
January 4 2007, 5:22 PM

Hi I've been taking vitex for about 1 1/2 months now and I have noticed my skin is better and I'm feeling better in myself. I've had no decrease in my libido ( thankfully) he he. Havent noticed any boob growth either tho mmmmm maybe its too early to be having an effect.
xx



Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Has anyone,,,
January 5 2007, 11:58 AM

noticed any weight gain since starting Vitex??? Any loss of hair??? Any break through bleeding??




faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: About Vitex
January 5 2007, 12:04 PM

No.....not at all.

Everything has been positive. Better skin, PAINLESS PERIODS WOO HOO, more energy, no more sugar cravings pre-periods, no more mood swings, no hair loss.........and best of all.........BIGGER BOOBIES!! :-)

It doesn't get better than this.....lol!

x



Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Hey thanks!!!
January 5 2007, 12:33 PM

Thanks FareyCat!!! Glad your having such good luck with this. I have purchased 1 bottle and am still looking for more. Want to have a few bottles ahead when I start,, but having trouble finding it. May have to figure out some way to buy on line.



Deb
(Login ddover)
Re: About Vitex
January 6 2007, 11:29 AM

I was able to find Vitex at GNC last night, so you may want to try there. It wasn't expensive at all. I paid $8 for a bottle with 100. I started it last night and can't wait to see if it works!



Anonymous
(Login chiquita83)
Re: About Vitex
January 6 2007, 7:28 PM

for anyone interested i bought my vitex extract at The Vitamin Shoppe. It is by Solaray, 60 capsules for $11.69 which should last a month. so for those that are here in the US, dont know if thats the best price but its the best ive found in my area. They have a website: thevitaminshoppe.com if anyone wants to check it out. Theres a store near me so I dont order online but I have found this store to be much cheaper than all the rest of the stores that sell vitamins/supplements..etc. that also goes for the rest of the herbs and the protein i bought.



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: About Vitex
January 6 2007, 7:34 PM

When I went to the Vitamin shoppe, they only had in stock their brand of Vitex, and I got 90 capsules for the same price. Don't know how they compare, but decided to go with it for now since I personally, am not willing to run all over creation for something :-)




LovelyAmanda
(Login LovelyAmanda)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: About Vitex
January 6 2007, 8:26 PM

I buy my Vitex from VitaCost.com and I live in the United States. The brand I use is called Nature's Way and it is only $3-4 for 100 capsules containing 400mg. With shippling costs it comes to around $6-8 but it is the cheapest price I have found thus far. I also order some other products from this site and I'm pleased with them. I hope this helps.

Good luck everyone,
Amanda




HS29
(Login HS29)
Re: About Vitex
January 7 2007, 11:56 PM

I've been taking 2 pills 2x per day for a month and a half now.
My libido had decreased, but I think it's evened out by now.
My PMS is almost non-existent now. I tend to rage rather bad.
I have been successively late on my period the last 2 times. (I was quite scheduled before I started taking this, and knew when it was coming-could feel it, but now I have no idea) Last month I was late 2 days, this month 3 days. Don't know what kind of pattern is starting here, but not super thrilled w/ that.

ALSO, this month I am bleeding like a stuck pig. My cramps aren't bad at all, which normally I can barely function, but I am bleeding pretty awful. I usually tend to bleed on the heavy side, but I won't go into all the gory details of the horrors I am having today. Ugh! Sorry if that was TMI.

As for the booby business, I haven't lost any size from running every day (since Thanksgiving) and I work out about 3x per week fairly heavy weights. I might say it appears I might be gaining a little, but I don't know if it's due to my period, so I will wait before I say anything in that regard.

Anyone here think I should decrease my intake on the Vitex??!!!Am I getting too much progesterone??

HTH!
~Heather



diana
(Login Diana1978)
SENIOR MEMBER
hi heather
January 8 2007, 1:18 AM

2 pills 2 times a day is what my bottle says is recommended of 400mg each. thats what i was taking before and i didnt notice heavier bleeding. i now take 3 2x a day. could it be something else u r taking? good luck.



Liz
(Login Liz1967)
Re: About Vitex
January 8 2007, 12:49 PM

So, HS29, your libido decrease a lot or just a bit?
Until now with my researche I realize that Vitex is great for depression but puts your libido around zero. Bur faerycat says it is the oposite, so I'm confused...




faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
To Liz-
January 8 2007, 6:12 PM

Hi Liz,

Read this -

http://www.herborganic.com/herbguide/vitex.htm

It goes on to say -

Actions: Female hormonal normaliser, aphrodisiac (for women, anaphrodisiac for men), increases lactation, regulates periods.

So..........it is an aphrodisiac for women but has the opposite effect for men, as in it is an anaphrodisiac for men.

Most writings pertaining to vitex as being a libido decreaser are based on what the ancients thought and if it did decrease the male libido, then what they say, to an extent is true, ie, it can do, but only for males. Lol.......the ancients believed that the world was flat, but this turned out not to be so.

x






faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
To Liz again....
January 8 2007, 6:16 PM

Ok, here is something else to read -

http://www.plantanswers.com/press_release.htm

It goes on to say -

In Europe, the Catholic Church developed a variation on this theme by placing Vitex blossoms at the clothing of novice monks to supposedly suppress their libido. The common name ‘Monk’s Pepper’ refers to the medieval belief that utilizing potions made from the berries helped monks maintain their vows of chastity. There is nothing in contemporary scientific literature to suggest that it actually does suppress the libido.

REPEAT - There is nothing in contemporary scientific literature to suggest that it actually does suppress the libido.

x




HS29
(Login HS29)
Diana & Liz
January 8 2007, 6:36 PM

I believe it is the Vitex causing my bleeding issues. I'm not taking anything else new or unusual.
I will continue to monitor- if it doesn't straighten out in the next few months- I'm going to have to come off of this stuff.

As for the libido business. I think everyone is different. Everything reacts differently in people. I don't think my libido was super high to begin w/. It increased when I was taking Bountiful Breast. I quit taking that awhile back and my libido was back in the gutter. Maybe the vitex is actually bringing it back up some. I don't know. Don't really care about that either way. I was just hoping to grow a little something w/o spending a ton of money. And even if I don't grow anymore, I at least hope to KEEP what I got. It ain't much, but at least it's something!



melinda
(Login melinda123)
Vitex and BCP?
January 10 2007, 4:41 PM

Do you think it's a bad idea to try Vitex if I am on BCP? Is it going to affect its effectiveness? Faerycat, do you have any idea? You seem to know a lot about Vitex.



Corrie
(Login Corrie73)
Re: About Vitex
January 10 2007, 7:38 PM

I have seen vitex listed in libido formulas for women. Perhaps it actually helps in that respect! I know that my libido has actually improved a lot since taking it, BUT I am also taking damiana, which is known to increase libido, and I think that damiana is mostly responsible for this. Actually, my PMS has come back a little bit since starting the damiana, so I am now wondering if it isn't counteracting the vitex to some extent (damiana is supposed to supress progesterone, while vitex promotes it). However, damiana has done such wonders for my libido, that I won't give it up! So, I am trying to find a good balance between the two herbs so that I have a healthy libido AND no PMS!

Good luck growing to everyone!



Cath
(no login)
No Melinda it's not going to cause hassles..read on...
January 10 2007, 9:14 PM

Agnus castus/Vitex DOESN'T cause problems with BCP!

I've posted this several times now, and people still seem not to be taking it in. Here it is again, but if in doubt after this again, just do what I did - and ASK your doctor!

After I originlly read this online, I checked with my GP, who is very open to her patients taking herbs, and great to deal with. She told me Agnus Castus will NOT react with, or negate the effects of my bcp, or vice-versa (this has been checked twice now, as I was on Yasmin, and am now on Cilest) so I happily take it and have done since 15th September.

Once again, for those about to say it was only tested with Marvelon, no, it was not. The original test was with Marvelon, then all top 100 bcp pills were tested.

Copied directly: from http://www.pms.org.uk/About+PMS/News/Onc...April+2006

Does Agnus Castus interact with contraception pill

Agnus CastusNAPS Expert Panel recently received an enquiry regarding the use of Agnus Castus and risks of any interaction if used at the same time as Marvelon, oral contraceptive pill.
Following research by NAPS research GP Dr Carrie Sadler and Lichtwer, the company which supplies Agnus Castus, there seems to be no evidence to suggest that Agnus Castus interferes in any way with the actions of other medicines.

Agnus castus is a herbal medicine which can be used for menstrual problems. It contains no oestrogen-like compounds, but seems to work by affecting the release of specific hormones from the pituitary gland in the brain.

Lichtwer looked specifically for information about any possible interaction between Agnus Castus and the hormones used in oral contraceptives but found no information in any of the standard reference books to indicate any interaction with the contraceptive pill. These books included Herbal Medicines by Barnes, Anderson and Phillipson, Martindale: The complete drug reference from the Pharmaceutical Press, ESCOP Monographs by the European Scientific Cooperative on Phytotherapy, as well as a literature search using PubMed, a data-base service operated by the US National Library of Medicine and the US National Institutes of Health. In 47 publications relating to Agnus Castus, the company found "no information that any interaction has ever been reported after using Agnus Castus. It thus seems highly unlikely that there will be any interaction between Agnus Castus and the oral contraceptive pill," Lichtwer commented. Dr Carrie Sadler agrees. "There is no evidence that Agnus Castus affects the contraceptive efficacy of the pill."

Lichtwer did question whether it was necessary to take Agnus Castus if already on the pill as both products address similar menstrual problems.

So, it does NOT appear to negate the effects at all.

I am back on Yasmin again now, as I fnd it suits me beter, and I take the same as Faerycat exactly, in the way of Vitex, and it's the one she gets from H & B too..

My boobs are growing all the time, and my libido has skyrocketed. I stopped Natureday liquid totally, and now only take Vitex and Neetle Root, and now have the best results I have had. I'm 39 and have the best boobs I have ever had in my whole life.



Linz
(no login)
Nettle - Cath?
January 11 2007, 12:16 AM

Hi
... I just wondered Cath - have you been on that combination (nettle/vitex) long? I'm taking vitex only (for a month now). Have you had a measureable increase or just fullness?
I've had more fullness and improved pms so far.
I'm finding nettle root a hard one to get info on - re: effect on hormones - I take it it's an anti-androgen - so lowers testosterone? Is that correct - any experts fancy chipping in here?!





Lillian
(no login)
Cath
January 11 2007, 2:59 AM

That is fantastic Cath! Do you have a personal programs page at all? How long have you been taking the Vitex? Thankx.




faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
To Cath
January 11 2007, 9:29 AM

Yay! am soooo please for you that it's working :-)

I bet you are feeling so much better all round too. Vitex is truly a wonderful herb huh.

x



LIZ
(Login Liz1967)
TO CATH
January 11 2007, 10:24 AM

Cath, please talk to me girl because I'm also 39 years old. I have one son and no boobs. I'm takins WU and SP since last summer and nothing happened. Please send me your advice.
When do yous started to grow? What did you take to begin growing? How muche did you grow?



violet
(Login _violet_)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: About Vitex
January 11 2007, 2:13 PM

Cath, don't take me wrong, there are enough articles and bibliography and study references over the net. To me the article you pasted is just another opinion added to the pile. There isn't enough research around herbs in general and this herb. But to be quite honest I'm not impressed by one particular study ran by the company which is a large distributor of the herb, sorry. So if anyone asks, I'll give my honest advice, just like you're giving yours.

I can't even conceive why should someone would want to take vitex while taking the pill, frankly. Maybe wouldn't affect BCP's job, but hardly could do it's own job. You don't have a regular cycle while taking the pill, you don't even ovulate. So I'm clueless why should someone want to take vitex whilst on the pill, especially yasmin which has a progestin that is known as the most similar to the progesterone produced in our bodies and therefore the most effective to reduce all the symptoms, secondary effects and discomfort caused by other bc pills, like anxiety, bloating, weight gain, etc.



Anonymous
(Login chiquita83)
vitex does interact with my BCP...
January 11 2007, 9:15 PM

i do know that vitex DOES interact with my BCP( I use the Orth-Evra transdermal patch)...I found in this article its drug interactions and found that one of the ingredients in my BCP is listed on there so I will NOT be taking vitex...instead i will substitute it for maca root. Here is the article where I found this out...I'll include the link at the bottom in case u want to check it out yourself.you might want to check if your BCP has any of these ingredients...hope this helps

____________________________________________________________________________________________

***Vitex Risks & Side Effects***

Vitex agnus castus is exceptionally safe. In one study, chaste tree berry was given up to 9 years with very few side effects.

It's advisable to not take vitex if you are pregnant.


--Drug Interactions

Interactions with hormone replacement therapy (potential/theoretical). Animal studies and human data have reported that chasteberry constituents have hormonal activity that may alter the effects of these medications and possibly the dose needed for treatment. conjugated estrogens, estradiol, estrone, esterified estrogens, estropipate, ethinyl estradiol, progesterone, medroxyprogesterone, hydroxyprogesterone, norethindrone.

Interactions with oral contraceptives (potential/theoretical). Animal studies and human data have reported that chasteberry constituents have hormonal activity that may alter the effects of these medications and possibly the dose needed for treatment: norethindrone, ethynodiol diacetate, norgestrel, norgestimate, ethinyl estradiol, drospirenone, desogestrel, levonorgestrel .

Interactions with dopamine agonists (potential/theoretical). An in-vitro study reported that chasteberry constituents had dopaminergic activity that may alter the effects of these medications and possibly the dose needed for treatment: selegeline, amantadine, carbidopa, levadopa, pramipexole, ropinirole, bromocriptine, pergolide. If you are taking any of these medication, it's a good idea to consult with your physician before taking vitex.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is the link as well:http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com/vitex.html#sec5


glad i found it otherwise there could have been a big surprise...one im definitely not ready for....as for my research maca root is in the cear and good to go so im happy about thatgood luck and best wishes to all!!

[admin]

about Vitex again
December 16 2006 at 8:34 AM bonnette (Login bonnette)
hello everyone using Vitex

do you follow the dosage recommended on bottle? i'm taking Prefemin pills which has 20 mg of extract in it but as i see others here are taking much more (although not extract). How do i know if it's enough or not?
i was recommended this in Pharmacy as it was said to very good and strong but it was quite pricely for 3 month supply (14 euros)compared to other as well.

curious Bonnette




waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: about Vitex again
December 16 2006, 1:51 PM

It is confusing. Dr Lee's book said to use Vitex as it is listed on the bottle. I have a bottle of liquid extract that says use 30 - 40 drops but does not indicate what dosage in milligrams this would give me. I have started using a pill form that has 400mg of herb per capsule. I found a pill extract form that was 250mg per capsule (and costing almost 3 times as much as the herb form).

20mg does sound low, but I would hesitate in assuming you should use it differently that the label states. It could be a very concentrated formula. Since you could purchase the Vitex without restriction, you may want to search the internet for other forms.



Corrie
(Login Corrie73)
Re: about Vitex again
December 16 2006, 3:43 PM

I am taking 1 400 mg Vitex pill twice per day, for a total of 800 mg. That has been enough to stop my PMS, but I am not sure how it is affecting NBE. However, I have the strong feeling that it is helping, and not hurting my program.


Good luck to all!




Kari
(Login PinkNika)
re: about vitex
December 16 2006, 6:28 PM

I took vitex a few weeks ago and its from the brand solaray. Each capsule contains 400 mg. According to the instructions on the bottle, it says take 4 to 6 capsules a day with meals or a glass of water. I thought that was waaayyy too much but thats what the bottle says. So if I did take 6 capsules a day, that would be 2400mg which personally, I think is too much to begin with. I started taking 2 a day but I have stopped since then. I would just take 2 or 3 to start with. Good luck!



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: about Vitex again
December 16 2006, 7:02 PM

Allright ~ I am going to add to the confusion:

My bottle of Vitex says to take 1-3 caps daily. Each capsule is 200mg Chasteberry Extract, 300 mg of Chasteberry. So what does that mean? or is it the obvious?

I have only started off with 1 cap a day, but by next week I'll move to two and stick with that.



bonnette
(Login bonnette)
Re: about Vitex again
December 16 2006, 7:35 PM

even more confused now

i just remember the pharmatist saying that it's very potent and that i should buy this and not the cheaper one which was recommended to take more per day (good marketing).

anyway i should probably not exceed it and will see.

can the strength of an extract vary? then it makes sense.

[admin]

More info on Vitex
December 13 2006 at 2:21 AM wonderbride (Login wonderbride)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hi everyone,

here're some webpages to check out on info. regarding Vitex. From what I have researched, it helps with PMS, PMS water retention, abnormal menstrual cycle, Infertility, and menopause. I believe it can help with NBE also. Here are the URLs:

http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Art...tkin23.htm

http://www.vitacost.com/science/hn/Herb/Vitex.htm

http://www.holistic-online.com/Herbal-Me...s/h211.htm


Fast boobie growing wishes to everyone




Feinics
(Login Feinics)
Re: More info on Vitex
December 13 2006, 5:32 AM

Thanks for the website links! It's so great to have so much information to check out. Has anyone been on Vitex for a while and if so how is the plan going?




Moonkissed
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: More info on Vitex
December 13 2006, 6:18 AM

I've been on Vitex since August, and so far the results are good, very good. Reduced PMS symptoms and increase in breast fullness, to give the short summery.



Feinics
(Login Feinics)
Re: More info on Vitex
December 13 2006, 6:53 AM

Thanks for the info! I'm glad to hear it is working for you.

Best wishes!



Anonymous
(Login anna-a)
To Moonkissed
December 13 2006, 7:50 PM

Hey Moonkissed,

Do you feel vitex decreases sexual desire?

Anna




Moonkissed
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: More info on Vitex
December 13 2006, 9:42 PM

Thanks, Feinics.

anna-a: I haven't noticed a change in my sexual desire. I have read that vitex, or chasteberry, decreases the drive, but I read on another website that this is not true.




HS29
(Login HS29)
Re: More info on Vitex
December 13 2006, 9:44 PM

I know the question wasn't directed towards me, but I thought I would chime in.

I feel like my desire has decreased. I am SURE my husband will say that, too, if you asked him!



Ash
(no login)
Re: More info on Vitex
December 13 2006, 10:01 PM

Moonkissed how much vitex do you take. I'm just finishing my first month ( take 2x 500mg in am), and I must say with my period due any day I dont seem to be making my kids lives hell !!!! I have no bloating and I feel great.
xx




Moonkissed
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: More info on Vitex
December 13 2006, 11:12 PM

HS29: That would make sense, seeing as the herb is used for that purpose. I have read that the herb mainly works in reducing libido in men, by decreasing testosterone. Then I read on another site that "chasteberry can act as both an aphrodisiac and an anaphrodisiac", so it's uncertain what it does for women.


Ash: I take 400mg of Vitex three times a day (for breakfast, lunch, and dinner). My bottle says to take it four times a day (twice in the morning, twice in the evening), but I subtracted one pill, and spaced it out throughout the day. I'm glad to hear that it's working well for you.



wonderbride
(Login wonderbride)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hi everyone,
December 14 2006, 1:32 AM

I've been taking Vitex for 4 1/2 months now and my PMS have all but disappeared. I didn't notice any decrease in libido. Didn't hinder my NBE growth either. It probably helped it along since I'm still growing.

Good luck and fast bobbie growing wishes everyone

"Adopt the pace of nature: Her secret is patience" -- Ralph Waldo Emerson



dandelion
(Login dandelion1)
Re: More info on Vitex
December 14 2006, 2:37 AM

thanks wonderbride for your info: you said it didnt hinder your nbe efforts, so are you taking other herbs? is anyone mixing vitex and herbs, or taking vitex alone?



wonderbride
(Login wonderbride)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hi dandelion!
December 14 2006, 3:33 AM

I take Vitex with BO, kelp, Wild Yam root and sometimes SP. I think Diana added Vitex recently and she is taking herbs like SP and FG. I'm not sure who else on herbs has added Vitex or if anyone is taking Vitex alone. If you go to the Personal Programs Page link on the main forum page to check on different programs ,maybe you can see who else is taking vitex. It should be good for anyone who has PMS problems whether they are on herbs or BO.

Vitex does not contain hormones. The benefits of vitex stem from its actions upon the pituitary gland—specifically on the production of a hormone called luteinizing hormone (LH). This indirectly increases progesterone production and helps regulate the menstrual cycle. Vitex also keeps prolactin secretion in check. The ability to decrease mildly elevated prolactin levels may benefit some infertile women as well as some women with breast tenderness associated with premenstrual syndrome (PMS).

Good luck and happy growing



Cath
(no login)
Re: More info on Vitex
December 14 2006, 11:25 AM

Wow..

Everybody sure is different aren't they?

I would say that my sex drive has INCREASED quite dramatically since I started Agnus Castus in September. I also definitely feel it has helped my boob growth.

I take it along with Natureday (liquid only) Borage Oil, and Nettle Root.

[admin]

agnus castus thought
November 1 2006 at 5:47 PM Busty2b (Login busty2b)
With all the data out there on women that have taken this herb, have there been any comments re:breast enlargement? You'd think they'd mention that as a side-effect.




Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: agnus castus thought
November 1 2006, 6:13 PM

Not wanting to throw water on the fire, but thats true. Have been doing searches most of the morning on vitex, and unforuately its not mentioned as side effect. Not even one of the ingredients in most formulated breast enhancement products. But then again how many women have been directed to take vitex for pms or any other female complaint??? And for that length of time???? Still,,,, will watch for it on the shelves!!!! One can always hope your as lucky as Karen.



gingerD
(Login gingerD)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: agnus castus thought
November 1 2006, 6:20 PM

yeh-thats true, if they had reported this as aside efect you would think they would be making alot of money marketing it for NBE
Although it does state it brings hormonal balance with proestrogen etc-don't quote me i forgot half the reasearch i did+ its on adifferent thread, which could explain why Karren did so well-you know all the bodys hormones in balance,i supose simular to prestrogen creams.
One things for sure at the price it is and the lack of listed side effects it could be worth a go



Busty2b
(Login busty2b)
Thanks Snowflake...
November 1 2006, 6:22 PM

...I did buy a bottle (low dosage, unfortunately - 80mg) and I will incorporate it in my usual routine, I guess. That's why I was wondering what everyone else is considering. Do we go it alone with Vitex? or include it in routines that are known to work. Though, I know it's worked wonders for Karen using Vitex on its own! :-)

Getting nervous about growing now...

Busty2b!



Busty2b
(Login busty2b)
I just saw your mssg GingerD
November 1 2006, 6:26 PM

Yeah...the price is right, but this adds one more pill (and cost) to the pile. I'm willing to anything a go though. The benefits of agnus castus certainly sound worth it. Didn't I read in that thread that benefits are better if taken on its own?

Busty2b



gingerD
(Login gingerD)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: agnus castus thought
November 1 2006, 6:27 PM

Just ignore that factless slurr i just put just checked my own thread for info and what i wrote here makes very little sence ----Doh
I supose im just saying i think i will be adding it to my routine 2 based on ifo from karren and ifo in original post
keep us informed on y progress bustyb



gingerD
(Login gingerD)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: agnus castus thought
November 1 2006, 6:30 PM

yeh B you are right,adding more and more herbs may hinder rather than progress.R you on indervidual herbs?



Busty2b
(Login busty2b)
Re: agnus castus thought
November 1 2006, 6:33 PM

Will do GingerD. My complexion is breaking out now with all these herbs so it'll be interesting to see if agnus castus helps with that.

Best boobie wishes to one and all!

Busty2b



Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: agnus castus thought
November 1 2006, 6:39 PM

Hey girls, been searching the the companies, that my herbs are from(here in Canada) and the highest dose of vitex I could find was 140mgs, with 450mgs of rice powder or something. Karen took way higher doses than that. She took it alone too. So,,,, alot of herbs play with our hormones and to give vitex a fair shot, I would take it alone if I could find a higher dose. Won't that be great only one herb yo buy. But for now will stick to my orginal plan and keep looking for it.



Busty2b
(Login busty2b)
Re: agnus castus thought
November 1 2006, 6:40 PM

Yes..I'm taking SP, Fenugreek, Red Clover/Black Cohosh, Milk Thistle, just finished a bottle of Nettle Root (the store I go to ran out - go figure! must've been my fault lol) and I added Soy Isoflavones back into my routine today because I noticed I'm no longer tingling and I think I shrunk a little.

Massaging with EPO and BO and Body shop's cocoa butter and vit e cream.

After my first month and today I'm one week into my cycle, I THINK i've had a modest growth of 1/2". No weight gain - just acne, and my right breast is still not responding as well, though I think my left breast has shrunk slightly making this less noticeable.

I know I listed this in the other thread on agnus castus, so sorry for the repeat everyone.

But yeah...I haven't tried wonder up or any of the other BE formulas.

Thx...B!



Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: agnus castus thought
November 1 2006, 6:58 PM

Checked the BeBoard and no talk of Vitex there either that I could find. Was really hoping Karen would come back today.



Busty2b
(Login busty2b)
Me too, Snowflake!
November 1 2006, 7:07 PM

Well I'm off to work now: Gotta pay for these boobs!! ;-)

Good luck everyone - you gals are great!

busty2b xx




Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: agnus castus thought
November 1 2006, 10:26 PM

I have to agree with what others have said. Agnus Castus is a very popular herb but despite the large numbers of women taking it, there do not seem to be reports of breast size increase to be found anywhere. In general it seems to be better for helping with acne!




Anonymous
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: agnus castus thought
November 2 2006, 4:34 AM

For those girls who really want to get a higher amount of Vitex, your best bet would be to try eBay, or at least some online stores. A couple of months ago, when I decided to start on Vitex, I started searching in health stores for this herb (I'm in Canada, BTW), and the dosages were low (I think less than a 100 mg) and each bottle cost over twenty dollars. I decided to try eBay, and I found a bottle for less than $14 US (S&H included), with 100 capsules, and 400 mg per capsule. I am half-way through this bottle, and will order another one next week. Even if Vitex won't make me like Pamela Anderson, having reduced PMS symptoms is awesome in itself.