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[archive] Androgen Info; Characteristics of excess & deficiency

#1

Androgen Info; Characteristics of excess & deficiency
February 21 2007 at 8:36 PM Surf  (Login Surf.)
SENIOR MEMBER

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.healthywomen.org/healthtopics/androgen

The principal androgens are testosterone and androstenedione. They are, of course, present in much higher levels in men and play an important role in male traits and reproductive activity. Other androgens include dihydrotestosterone (DHT), androstenedione, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and DHEA sulfate.

In a woman's body, one of the main purposes of androgens is to be converted into the female hormone estrogen.

In women, androgens are produced in the ovaries, adrenal glands and fat cells. In fact, women may produce too much or too little of these hormones -- disorders of androgen excess and deficiency affect an estimated 5 to 10 percent of women and are among the more common hormonal disorders in women.

In adult women, androgens are necessary for estrogen synthesis and have been shown to play a key role in the prevention of bone loss as well as sexual desire and satisfaction. They also regulate body function before, during and after menopause.

Excess amounts of androgens can pose a problem, resulting in such "virilizing effects" as acne, hirsutism (excess hair growth in "inappropriate" places, like the chin or upper lip) and thinning hair. Hirsutism: Male-like hair growth in women. Hairs are usually darker and thicker than is typical for women and may occur in areas such as the upper lip, chin, chest, abdomen or inner thighs. Many women with high levels of a form of testosterone called "free" testosterone have polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), characterized by irregular or absent menstrual periods, infertility, blood sugar disorders, and, in some cases, symptoms like acne and excess hair growth. Left untreated, high levels of androgens, regardless of whether a woman has PCOS or not, can lead to serious health consequences, such as insulin resistance and diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure and heart disease.

Low androgen levels can be a problem as well, producing effects such as low libido (interest or desire in sex), fatigue, decreased sense of well being and increased susceptibility to bone disease. Low androgen levels may affect women at any age, but most commonly occur during the transition to menopause, or "perimenopause," a term used to describe the two years just prior to and just after the last menstrual flow when menopausal symptoms are most common. . Androgen levels begin dropping in a woman's twenties, however; by the time she reaches menopause, they have declined 50 percent or more from their peak as androgen production declines in the adrenal glands and the midcycle ovarian boost evaporates.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0...i_68322928

Although not all women develop symptoms, androgen deficiency syndrome may be marked by low energy, decreased libido, depression, irritability, and insomnia. The fact that not all women experience symptoms, and the variability of severity of symptoms when they are present, is believed to be related, in part, "to the difference in aromatization that takes place in the peripheral tissues of postmenopausal women--androstenedione being converted to estrone, testosterone to estradiol," Dr Notelovitz said.
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#2

Best routine for Excess Androgens?
July 14 2008 at 10:21 PM Kerry (no login)
Hi,
I am new and took the test recommended on this site for hormones and I have excess adrogens. Does anyone here know what the best routine for that is? Most of the postings I have read here are estrogen dominant or deficent, but not excess androgens. Any help would be great. Thanks so much!




wish
(no login)
Re: Best routine for Excess Androgens?
July 15 2008, 4:36 PM

me too...most of my symptoms pointed to excess androgens. I've read from one forum that Saw Palmeto blocks androgens. Should I take that then?



kerry
(no login)
Re: Best routine for Excess Androgens?
July 16 2008, 6:09 AM

Hi wish,

Yes, I know that saw palmetto helps block excess androgens, but have read on this forum that some ladies gained weight with it. (which is not a problem for me, I wouldnt mind a few extra pounds). But if you dont want to gain weight I have read that nettle root also blocks excess androgens without that side effect. Now I am just wondering what else one might add to their routine when they have excess androgens. Any suggestions from anyone would be greatly appreciated. And good luck with your routine Wish, keep me posted on your progress and any good information you come across.




Lisa121
(no login)
Re: Best routine for Excess Androgens?
July 16 2008, 6:55 AM

Search the forum, there are a few ladies who have excess androgens like myself and Louise. There are a few recent threads concerning this topic as well.
Generally you can use nettle root, saw palmetto (which can cause weight gain and cellulite, not my favourite), licorice or spearmint tea. You can search for all those herbs or look on the herb info pages to find out more. Add one of those to your normal routine to lower testosterone levels, like that you should be able to grow with e.g. wonderup or on a single herb routine.
Vitex Agnus Castus can be used to balance your hormones as well, I have taken it since September and my boobs have grown with this quite a bit during the past few months, however, it is not a save bet, just a suggestion for those who want to balance their hormones, you MAY get growth in the process. You can check out my program page if you like and just read up on info on the forum, there is tons there about androgen dominance.
As for being sure about your hormone levels I personally would do a blood test at the doctors and not rely on something you did online. That is just an indication, to be sure you really should get a proper test done.



RosePapillon
(no login)
Re: Best routine for Excess Androgens?
July 16 2008, 8:05 AM

Hey there!

You can also try adding green tea and zinc to your diet. Not too much of the latter, perhaps up to 50mg at the most. Apparently green tea also works to lower the amount of DHT in your body, probably by preventing the conversion of testerone to the potent form. Or something like that. Similar to spearmint tea.

I've been trying the spearmint tea thing for some time now. Will post if I get results! I'm also thinking of doing vitex 'cause I just remembered my period's coming soon and I need to kick the crap out of those period pains. So, looks like I'll give the verdict in a few months.

Oh and one more thing, a saliva serum test might be more reliable than a blood test, can't remember where I read this, but apparently it's harder to detect changes in hormonal levels via blood testing during and after hormonal imbalance treatments.



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Best routine for Excess Androgens?
July 16 2008, 5:00 PM

Excess androgens most often come with estrogen deficiency (because testosterone inhibits estrogen), so an estrogenic program with andorogen blockers is recomended. This is actually the most basic NBE program.



Kerry
(no login)
Re: Best routine for Excess Androgens?
July 17 2008, 12:19 AM

I just wanted to say thank you so much to all of you who posted in response to my question. I really appreciate how kind and informative you all were. I wish you all the best with your programs and will keep you updated if I have any progress with mine. again, thank you.
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#3

anti-androgen help!
May 14 2007 at 9:13 AM Black Sheep (no login)
what herbs are anti-androgen? i would luv to know b/c i think im anti-androgen..i think saw palmetto is one...i think thats all i've heard.

**extremely appreciative of comments, *time* is precious.




faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: anti-androgen help!
May 14 2007, 12:01 PM

Nettle is another -

http://www.thesupplementstore.co.uk/IDSa...matase.htm

But what makes you think you are anti androgen? Don't you mean that you think you have excess androgens? Have you had tests done? Do you have PCOS?

A couple of articles to read -

http://www.antiaging.com/cyberhealth/CyberHealth_10.htm

http://www.owal.co.uk/gynae/?q=node/22

x



Lost Sheep
(no login)
thank you!
May 14 2007, 9:06 PM

thanks faerycat!!!...um...do you know of any other?? other than nettle and saw palmetto??? does saw palmetto or nettle make you gain weight? will bc pills make your boobs bigger?...like desogen or orthocept cause im 95% sure i have pcos.




faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: anti-androgen help!
May 15 2007, 8:50 AM

Hi Lost Sheep,

Saw palmetto can cause weight gain yes. Not saying that it will, but it can do. Nettle however does not cause weight gain and you would need to take nettle root......not the leaf.

BCP can cause breasts to grow. Each woman responds differently. I took BCP for years and years with no growth whatsover, yet the same brand of pill makes my daughter grow. Strange thing is that every time she has decided to quit taking BCP, she has shrunk back to a small A cup, yet when she restarts, she goes up to a C-D cup within a week or so. It's really bizarre....lol.

Sugar converts to testosterone/androgens in the body. It is best to cut out all sugar and refined foods from your diet. Each woman is different and most are better equipped to deal with excess sugar, but if you are suffering the effects of excess androgens, then it means that your body is less able to cope with sugars etc.

Remember too that sugar is not only found in sweets and candy. You will find it in most pre-packed, fast foods, sauce mixes, drinks etc........as well as occuring natuarally in other foods. Might be an idea to conduct an experiment for a month or so where you cut out all processed foods, white flour products and sugars etc. I think you will be amazed at the benefits.

Good luck!

x




Lisa121
(Login Lisa121)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: anti-androgen help!
May 15 2007, 9:30 PM

Feary, I think that BC rarely makes your breast grow, they can cause swelling due to the estrogen I think, but like what you describe happening to your daughter, it is rarely permanent. If it does lead to growth than usually during puberty and that may just be helping it along a bit.
I have been on several different BCPs since I was 15 and have not had any growth or swelling on any of them, and would not advice to take BCPs to increase breast size as it rarely works.

Spearmint tea twice a day is meant to be anti androgenic, so you can try that if you want, I think you are only meant to use it during the second half or your cycle though.




faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: anti-androgen help!
May 16 2007, 10:52 AM

You are probably right Lisa. I meant to say swell. Have heard of lots of girls who says they grew when they started taking BCP......but as you say, they perhaps meant to say that they swelled when they started taking BCP. Except they don't realise it is swelling, until the stop taking BCP for whatever reason then shrank.

I never got any growth or swelling from any kind of BCP either. We girls are a complex bunch and each of us very different. And no, I would NOT recommend trying any form of BCP for breast enhancement purposes.

x




sophie
(Login sophie9)
...as i put down my bag of miniature reeces peanutbutter cups....
May 16 2007, 11:57 PM

umm...thanks for that sugar reminder faery! i really needed it! i totally forgot about that in the height of my pms insanity. plus those foods just make you feel like garbage! i know because i've been eating junk food for a week straight! need to get my act together. i've never had a hormone test, but i do think i have excess angrogens. there was that article about spearmint tea being helpful for excess testosterone that i remember from awhile back. someone posted it. i could never find spearmint tea in the health food store though. faery or anyone else - what happens hypothetically if you do have excess androgens and you use estrogenic herbs like fennugreek or fennel? how do the hormones interact, or what is the reaction?



Sissy
(Login sissy2345)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: anti-androgen help!
May 17 2007, 1:26 AM

Sophie, I found spearmint tea in the grocery store. I have looked all over for it and almost bought it online and there it was with all the other flavored teas. I swear I looked there before and it wasn't there. Maybe with the recent benefits discovered it's become more popular.



sophie
(Login sophie9)
Re: anti-androgen help!
May 17 2007, 6:35 AM

haha...i've done the same thing sissy! up and down the tea eisle, examining each tea box closely! perhaps it is more popular now. thought i would mention - after i posted i looked up some sites on hirsutism and one site said that the best way to drink the tea is in the morning and at night and to use whole spearmint leaves, let it seep and then drain the leaves and drink it. they recommended using the whole leaves you find in the spice section of the grocery store. they also mentioned something about doing it for five days during a certain period of your cycle. gosh...i should have saved the website and i am super bad at this whole cycle business...i think the cycle started with a "d"...ring a bell anyone? they said you should drink it for five days like that when you cycle starts. but the article the bbc put out wasn't as detailed and just said to drink it. i think i may try the whole leaves like they recommended though. anyways...i know this is sort of offtopic....but how do you guys - if you do - experience hirsutism? my gynocologist said i may mildly have it, but never recommended i take a test and said that birth control would help and to stay on it. i think most of my body hair is pretty normal. i don't have facial hair...not out the ordinary - no one would consider me to. i actually have almost hairless arms. but my legs are really hairy (ugh...i mean it!) and i've had hair on my stomach since puberty pretty much. dark hair...i wax it off. they did recommend on some of the sites i was looking at about angrogen problems that there are anti-angrogen drugs available. so i guess if if you think you have excess angrogen and are having issues with it, a hormone test and then talking about those with your doctor would be a good idea. actually...i'd just be really interested in having a hormone test in general...it would help with nbe and choosing herbs.



Lonely Sheep
(Login Alexia1981)
Re: anti-androgen help!
May 17 2007, 7:01 AM

I only find peppermint tea, is that the same? I'm having pcos and also excessive hair growth (lucky I'm blond)



Sissy
(Login sissy2345)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: anti-androgen help!
May 17 2007, 10:51 AM

I probably have a very mild form of hirsutism , but lately I have also realized that I was comparing myself to some very "lucky" female friends, and having to shave my legs daily and wax my upper lip (very fine hairs) once a month is just the price I pay for having really thick hair on my head. I wax some of my belly also, but so do a whole lot of normal women. After looking at pictures of the disease, I don't complain anymore, realizing that my problem is so mild. I'm sure that I must have the extra androgens also, plus a little testosterone or whatever, I'm learning more and more about this on this forum.

Here is the link (provided from Wahaika) that tells when to drink the tea for benefits. I know I should buy the leaves, but I'm lazy. I actually love the taste, I didn't follow the directions as far as 2x daily and the time of the month, I think I'll experiment this month.

http://herbalscienceresearch.com/keyword/endocrine



Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: anti-androgen help!
May 17 2007, 11:20 AM

Pumpkin seed oil and Pygeum are also testerone blockers, but these seem to be constantly overlooked. Whatever a man would take for prostrate inflammation would benefit women to block testerone as well, making it postive for NBE. Same problem for both sexes, different outcome.
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#4

Androgens excess
September 6 2008 at 2:42 PM Urshy (Login Urshy)
Hi!

I'm new at this forum and I've found many new info but i'm a little confused now.After i took the hormonal imbalance test it showed that i have excess of androgens in my body,all the other groups came out normal.
2 years ago(i'm 20 now) i was taking Bust plus and Cleavage breast enhancement pills,but nothing happened at all(no swelling,pain,no growth),so i wonder,if this imbalance can prevent NBE from working?
I've read on the information site(http://www.botanicalbeautylab.com/beautybeprogram.html) that for this case it is good to take Saw palmetto which works anti-androgenic,but before i buy this i want to ask some questions.
I have acne on my face and also very oily skin and hair.So if i take saw palmetto in larger quantity(as it is recommended-5,000mgs) will the skin become drier too?I'm asking this because i like my skin to be more oily(it's not sensitive and dry)
And if this'll happen,will the acne return when i stop taking this herb?Is it necessary for this imbalance to take saw palmetto or can i just take more of estrogenic herbs(fenugreek)?
Thanx for help and sory for my bad english...




Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Androgens excess
September 6 2008, 3:16 PM

Excess androgens is a very frequent imbalance among people who do NBE, and NBE actually works by correcting hormonal imbalances. SP is known to cause weight gain and cellulite so if you don't want to risk it, you should rather take nettle root (but it has to be root not leaf). If you feel that nettle root isn't doing enoguh you can look into other androgen blockers and add more. Aside from that, you should add estrogenic herbs into your routine, an oil, a high protein diet, and of coruse massage. No one can tell you what exactly will happen when you'll take a certain herb cause everyone's different. Don't take too high doses cause that makes you stall, you should take the minimal dose that still works well for you.



Urshy
(Login Urshy)
Re: Androgens excess
September 6 2008, 4:37 PM

Oh than I would rather use NR.Can I use the nettle that grows in the garden?
which of estrogenic plants are the best and doesn't cause weight gain and celulit?(i have already problems with cellulit so i don't want to make it worse)There are so many herbs-fenugreek,fennel,black cohosh,barley,red clover?Is it ok to make tea of that herbs?I have many of them in the garden i just don't know how to prepare.
Thanx again



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Androgens excess
September 6 2008, 10:14 PM

Hmm I dunno about your own nettle, I mean I don't see why not, but quality is important at these supplements and if you know how to prepare your own that's fine. I know the important thing at roots is that you really use the chunk of the root, not the thin parts and the ''threads''.
You should research the estrogenic herbs and decide on your own. None of the most popular ones are infamous for weight gain, however nothing is impossible in NBE. Do not use black cohosh or wild yam thoguh. Personally I wouldn't base all my herb intake on teas because for one it would take more time and work and also I'm not sure you get all the ingredients into you with a tea, tho that might just be me being paranoic and teas may be fine.





Urshy
(Login Urshy)
Re: Androgens excess
September 6 2008, 10:59 PM

so it is better to buy all that on the internet?is complicated and u never know what u get.all these stuff(fenugreek,linseed,fennel,ginkgo) can be bought also in a store or pharmacy but i don't know if can be used.i also don't know how to prepare this.just eat alone or mix with something?i've heard that fenugreek people mix with honey?ginkgo biloba can be bought in some capsules for better memory,is it ok to use even if it is made for other purposes?



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Androgens excess
September 7 2008, 11:03 AM

Personally I recomend cayenne over ginko. I used both and cayenne was a lot more effective. If you have powdered herbs you can take them any way you manage and is easiest for you, people have use honey, orange joice, cranberry juice etc.



Urshy
(Login Urshy)
Re: Androgens excess
September 7 2008, 1:46 PM

Ok,thanx a lot,just one more question:how much must be taken?on the site it says 1000-5000mgs,does that mean mg?that's a lot actually(500g)



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Androgens excess
September 7 2008, 3:05 PM

How much of which herb? I don't think any herb among the usual ones is taken at as high as 5000 mg. Otherwise you can look up doses in one of the newbie topics, as well as in people's personal programs.



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Androgens excess
September 7 2008, 9:03 PM

If you're interested in nettle make sure you take the root not the leaf.

I had all the androgen excess signs, turns out I have polycystic ovaries, the doctor gave me metformin + dianette and has now switched the dianette for yasmin - I feel so much better! My skin's better, my abdominal and neck and knee pains are better, my periods are better, I'm not such a psycho....really, if you think you have a medical problem see a doctor and get a prescription, when your hormones are fixed you can use herbs. If your hormones aren't overcome by the herbs you may just be wasting your money. Another thing, often your hormones are better balanced if you lose some weight - look up a BMI calculator on the internet, you should be between 18-25 on the BMI range. I was nearly 26 to start and I've lost weight so I'm 20 now - losing weight can also fix your hormones. I've read that it's good to lose 5% of your body weight but I guess that depends on where you start, I've lost 20% of mine and I feel a lot better.



Urshy
(Login Urshy)
Re: Androgens excess
September 8 2008, 2:41 PM

I'll take the root,i think i'll just buy some.
you had pains because of imbalance?
I don't think that with me it is so bad.The only symptom i have of androgen excess is some acne(not too bad),pores and so on.i don't have any hair loss,my periods are regular...so that probbly isn't a medical problem.
i was taking Yasmin two years ago because i had painful periods,but it caused me vaginal dryness,headaches,palpitations,anxiety etc.so i had to quit them.than i took logest and it wasn't any better so now i don't want any BC pills again.i feel really ok without them,my periods are thanks god ok now.
my BMI is around 19 and i think i have a really beautyful figure,just breasts are in my opinion a little too small.i'm 70 B now(i think that is 32 B in england)and i would like to have a full C cup.
i'll just try with herbs to see what'll happen but i won't be dissapointed if there won't be any change.
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#5

Anyone out there with androgen excess?
June 1 2007 at 6:23 PM Louise (no login)
Has anyone with androgen excess had good results? Any suggestions?

Would I be better off asking this in the men's section?!? (I'm not a man but I assume they have the toughest starting point)




Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Anyone out there with androgen excess?
June 1 2007, 6:39 PM

Don't know how long you have been reading forum, so here goes. it is a basic rule that overly thin women have higher levels of testerone than plump women, plumper women having higher levels of estrogen. And I am not talking lack of weight cause of an overactive thyroid, thats another story. Anyway lots of women here have higher androgen. take Saw Palmetto and or Stinging nettles for this. Also pumpkin seed oil and pyguem are anti-angrogen herbs. Pumpkin seed oil has been used by women here, but I have never heard of anyone using Pyguem, so that one I am curious about myself. Saw Palmetto can cause weight gain, so stinging nettles can be usedinstead of SP. Find Personal Program Pages and happy reading. This will give you ideas of a progam for yourself.



Alien Sheep
(Login lil_dunny)
Re: Anyone out there with androgen excess?
June 3 2007, 5:35 AM

i try to have a handful of pumpkin seeds most days - it seems less conducive to weight gain than taking saw palmetto



Lisa121
(no login)
Re: Anyone out there with androgen excess?
June 3 2007, 5:29 PM

I have excess androgens and have grown quite a bit, you can check out my programme and picture page for ideas, otherwise the above advice covers it really well.



Lucia
(no login)
Re: Anyone out there with androgen excess?
June 5 2007, 1:44 PM

Pumpkin seeds work well for me. Previously I used saw palmetto and that was effective too.
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#6

Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 14 2008 at 6:01 AM Conner (no login)
Hello again, everyone.

I am so sorry to be asking all these questions as I try to devise my first REAL NBE routine, but I am trying to do it right. On the recomendations of many ladies on this sight, I went to the doctor and got checked for hormone imbalance, and it turns out that I have excess androgens. I know that Saw Palmetto is good for this, and I would think that taking estrogenic herbs like fenugreek would also be good for this. But, I thought I would plead for advise as to what a good routine for someone with excess androgens is. Right now I am thinking about taking the following:

AM

Saw Palmetto - 900 mg
Fish Oil - 1000 mg
Maca - 300g
EPO- 500 mg
DIM (for estroen balance)
L-tyrosine - 1000 mg
Vit E - 400 mg
Fennugreek - 800 mg

PM (same dosages)

Saw Palmetto
Maca
EPO
Fenugreek

I also take Marine Collagen at night.

Any reccomenations on dosages,times I should take them, things I should add or take out because of my excess androgens, etc. is greatly appreciated. Thank you all and good luck with all of your routines...




joey
(Login Joeykk)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 14 2008, 3:01 PM

take no more than 1500mg of SP. I do a about 1200mg, half in the morning and then the other half at night.



Conner
(no login)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 14 2008, 9:44 PM

Thank you joey, for that advice...do you have excess androgens?



joey
(Login Joeykk)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 15 2008, 12:03 AM

yea, i do. I am not exactly how to fix them yet myself. I know that licorice is good for you and I can't remember what else. I'll post it when I remember.



Conner
(no login)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 15 2008, 4:08 PM

Thank you very much, I have done research on androgen excess, and have found the most positive things to be said about Saw Palmetto, Nettle Root, and spearmint. But as always, its nice to speak with someone who is dealing with it as well. So thanks for all youe help.



Lisa121
(no login)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 15 2008, 8:45 PM

Hi Conner,
I have suffered from excess androgens since puberty so I know what you are going through. I have been doing this herb and NBE thing for a good few years now.
I tried SP, it did help but I got terrible cellulite from it and bottomised weight gain that just wasnt nice anymore. I have found that Nettle root works much better for me, I only have to take 500mg a day and that sorts me out better than the SP which I had to take at higher dosages.
I have been using Vitex to balance my hormones since September last year and that actually seems to be doing the best, I combine it with Nettle root when I can be bothered and feel it is necessary.
You can check out my programs page, I just updated it a few days ago with the whole vitex thing being the last post down.
Moon and Louise know a lot about this topic as well, so they are always good to ask for advice.
Regarding your program I really cant give you any other advice than to ramp up slow and see what works best for you. Except of Fenugreek and SP I never tried any of those, but Fenugreek makes a lot of women break out with acne and you smell from it as well. If you dont go in the sun too much you can use Fennel as an alternative, that wont make you smell and works too.
Also, do the knuckle massage but dont overdo it, I have found stimulating pressure points around the breasts aids in breast growth quite a bit. The right lotion helps as well.
I am just too lazy to stick to it anymore.
All the best for your program and good luck, I have my fingers crossed for you!



Conner
(no login)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 18 2008, 8:03 AM

Thank you Lisa, so much, for all of you guidance and advice...I did look at your updated programs page, and it was really helpful. If you dont mind, may I ask you another question? Well, two questions...what do you think helped the most with the acne that tends to come with excess androgens...and also, what do you think you experienced the most growth because of? I hope I am not to o much of a bother with all of this, and if I can offer support to you in anyway, please feel free to ask....thanks again.



Lisa121
(no login)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 18 2008, 1:02 PM

Hello Conner,
that is no problem, you are very welcome, I am glad if I can help and your questions are no bother at all.
As for the acne problem, I am not really sure, I think the Nettle helped pretty well but I think drinking milk thistle tea and spearmint at the same time really made my skin clear up. You may want to try one or the other alone if you dont want to use both, my first shot would be the milk thistle though as that cleans the liver and I think that may just have helped with the acne. You could try green oats tea as well, that may help with the boob growth too.
Just now my skin seems a lot better, I am not sure what this is due to, if the Vitex is starting to really kick in, I am not sure, but my skin is pretty good just now even though I have my days at the moment and usually that means major break outs.
I recently started drinking sage tea against the sweatiness, that is good for your skin and against acne as well, so it may just be that. It is always difficult to tell, so you are best just trying the things singly and see what works for you. With most of these you should make sure you take breaks though, neither sage nor green oats tea for example should be used for a longer period of time, so generally not more than two or three months at most.
Topically I dilute some tea tree oil with water one to one in a little bottle, shake it well (because it doesnt mix) and put it on some cotton wool to clean my face or just to put it on single spots. Zink cream helps to reduce the redness of spots and the infection too.
I have found a new secret for my skin, that is cream mixed lactic acid. I bought cream for acne with lactic acid in it but it was just so expensive. I use a diaphragm and the cream is based on lactic acid. I get mine from the chemist, they mix it themselves and I just mix my own cream with about 2/3 of cream to 1/3 of the acid. That really helps keep the acne in check and it is cheaper than the other stuff.

As for the growth, I think the fenugreek and nettle mix worked really well for me, and also my own home made lotion with the fennel extract, ylang ylang and geranium olis. The recipe is on my programs page, together with fengshuis massage instructions. Also drinking soy milk along it seemed to help.
Everyone is different though so a totally different mix may work wonders for you. I personally noticed that lower dosages work better for me than the higher ones and I dont stall as quickly.

I hope I didnt go on for too long.
Good luck with your program and keep me posted on how it goes.



Zuri
(no login)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 18 2008, 3:37 PM

Hi Conner,

EPO has helped clear my skin a lot. It is supposed to have an anti-inflammatory effect which helps combat acne.



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 18 2008, 5:37 PM

Hi,

I'm not on here much now because of internet issues but just to say that I think you should ditch the herbs, get your hormones straight on meds first then deal with boobs later. I think it's also questionable how much success you are likely to get from herbs because your hormones are imbalanced and the meds that you may be given might mess up your digestion so you won't absorb things properly. Hasn't the doctor prescribed anything? Have you thought about suction? I got good growth with Brava and maybe a little with BB (which is more convenient).



joey
(Login Joeykk)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 18 2008, 9:38 PM

hey lisa, where do you get your Nettle root from? I have the hardest time finding nettle root. I can only find the nettle leaf etc.



Lisa121
(no login)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 19 2008, 6:54 AM

Hi Joey, I get nettle root from vortexhealth.net, their shipping within Europe is free, so it is quite cheap and generally really fast service too.

Hi Louise, how have you been? Have the meds helped you so far and how are you feeling? I have been doing good on the vitex, which is a relief. Really glad I am off the pill, that really messed me up more than it done me good.



Jennifer
(no login)
Androgen Excess, what is the best for that?
May 21 2008, 4:43 PM

Hello Girls-
I also have excess Androgens and I am considering purchasing wonderup. Can anyone tell me if Wonderup or Nature Day will work well with my situation? I know that there are better pills to take if you have excess estrogen and ones to take if you have excess androgens. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!



Joey
(Login Joeykk)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 21 2008, 9:15 PM

Hey Lisa,

Where did you learn about the pressure points for NBE? Are they listed on here? I have only seent he pressure points on the one massage page on here. Are there other pressure points or are those the ones you use?

Thanks.

Joey



Conner
(no login)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 22 2008, 6:00 AM

Thanks Zuri and Louise and Lisa for your help...

Louise...

no, the doctor has not prescribed anything for the imbalance, but I am thinking about taking Vitex like Louise has. I do want to straighten out the hormones.I have not started any routine yet, just consiering an herb based one and have been taking supplements and oing massage to help prepare my body for it when I do start. But since the herbs are estrogenic herbs, wouldnt the added estrogen balance out the androgens...thanks agaon for your advice.

Zuri,

Thanks for the reccomenation. I will add that to my routine. My skin is not really bad, I dont break out often, its just that when I do, I break out a lot and they are stubborn and dont like to go away...I thought I had left pimples behind as a teenager....

Lisa,

Just wanted to say thats again for all the help...


COnner



Lisa121
(no login)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 22 2008, 6:45 PM

Hi Joey, yes, those are the pressure points I use(d). I also massaged the points for the uterus and ovaries which are at the side below your ankles as well just because they were sore. Not sure if stimulating them helps or not, I thought it wouldnt do any harm. You can probably find those on the internet or just looking into any reflexology book in a bookshop.

Conner, you are very welcome, I am glad if I can help. As for the persistent pimples that dont go away, bang on tea tree oil, concentrated if you need (just watch as some people get a rash) and zinc paste. That really helps with stubborn ones, esp. the zinc paste.

Jennifer, you can use wonderup but I would combine it with Nettle root or Saw Palmetto. Nettle root is my favourite, I can highly recommend that. Like that you should grow, you just need something to suppress the androgen excess, which those two (Nettle and SP) do. I think wonderup is quite a good product and I dont see why it shouldnt work if you add one or the other to the routine. Start low with the dosages of all and stick to those for at least two months, ideally three, to see if anything happens (tingles, pains, fullness), and you should not need more than 1000 mg of Nettle root, I only take 500 mg and that does fine.
It is just finding the mixture and dosages of herbs that work for you.
Good luck to all of you.



ophelia
(Login ophelia)
Re: Androgen Excess, what is the best for that...
May 30 2008, 4:19 PM

Spearmint and licorice can get forgotten but these are very useful for androgens.
Reply

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