07-02-2016, 21:42
Basics for me please?
Thanks
Thanks
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08-02-2016, 05:05
Hi, Ella,
I'd be a bit nervous about a ketogenic diet during nbe.
It's meant to burn fat, and breasts have lots of fat tissue. I wanted to do the same... I decided it wasn't worth the limitations.
Having said that, do a search over at t-nation.com.
https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/u...enic-diets
https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/w...losing-fat
From the first:
Here's what you need to know...
Ketosis occurs when carbs are in such low quantities that your body relies almost exclusively on fatty acid oxidation and ketone metabolism.
Ketogenic diets have about 70-75% of your daily caloric intake coming from fat and about 5% from carbohydrates.
Ingesting protein above approximately .8 grams per pound is enough to kick you out of ketosis.
Ketogenic diets improve body comp, but so does any diet that reduces calories from any source.
There is no literature to support that a ketogenic diet is beneficial for promoting increases in muscle mass.
Ketogenic diets affect performance negatively.
The part about more than 0.8 g protein per pound of body weight was new to me.
How much exercise do you want in your routine? I want to be a beast... Female beast, ok, but still a beast. ?
The more feminine you want to be, the more you can manage the diet. Since I want to put up numbers, I'm fighting myself. If you are willing to be skinny-feminine, this would work well. I'd still suggest squats, sprints, butt work for hypertrophy (hack squats, slow on the squat down or eccentric, pause at the bottom, fast on the up or concentric). That will build the butt. So will sprints, which you can do as HIIT to liberate fat, followed by some long, slow distance normal cardio to burn the fat liberated to the bloodstream.
And yoga on off days. Keep moving, keep burning.
Biggest problem I found was food during the day. Fats are hard to come by out in the world... ?
Packing food is best resolution... And avocado, IIRC, is a phyto progesterone.
I have to think about going keto, too, even with the loss to performance.... I like my alcohol too much, and it's all sugars... (Like we didn't know, you girls told me that a while back...)
Make sure to keep your strength up, try to be active during the day, and you should be able to achieve it. Post status updates, please? ?
-Dianna
I'd be a bit nervous about a ketogenic diet during nbe.
It's meant to burn fat, and breasts have lots of fat tissue. I wanted to do the same... I decided it wasn't worth the limitations.
Having said that, do a search over at t-nation.com.
https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/u...enic-diets
https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/w...losing-fat
From the first:
Here's what you need to know...
Ketosis occurs when carbs are in such low quantities that your body relies almost exclusively on fatty acid oxidation and ketone metabolism.
Ketogenic diets have about 70-75% of your daily caloric intake coming from fat and about 5% from carbohydrates.
Ingesting protein above approximately .8 grams per pound is enough to kick you out of ketosis.
Ketogenic diets improve body comp, but so does any diet that reduces calories from any source.
There is no literature to support that a ketogenic diet is beneficial for promoting increases in muscle mass.
Ketogenic diets affect performance negatively.
The part about more than 0.8 g protein per pound of body weight was new to me.
How much exercise do you want in your routine? I want to be a beast... Female beast, ok, but still a beast. ?
The more feminine you want to be, the more you can manage the diet. Since I want to put up numbers, I'm fighting myself. If you are willing to be skinny-feminine, this would work well. I'd still suggest squats, sprints, butt work for hypertrophy (hack squats, slow on the squat down or eccentric, pause at the bottom, fast on the up or concentric). That will build the butt. So will sprints, which you can do as HIIT to liberate fat, followed by some long, slow distance normal cardio to burn the fat liberated to the bloodstream.
And yoga on off days. Keep moving, keep burning.
Biggest problem I found was food during the day. Fats are hard to come by out in the world... ?
Packing food is best resolution... And avocado, IIRC, is a phyto progesterone.
I have to think about going keto, too, even with the loss to performance.... I like my alcohol too much, and it's all sugars... (Like we didn't know, you girls told me that a while back...)
Make sure to keep your strength up, try to be active during the day, and you should be able to achieve it. Post status updates, please? ?
-Dianna
Hi Diana. Not really fussed Re boobs but keto seems a healthy diet choice but I'm unsure. Ie I didn't realise it reduced body fat cause OMG I do not need to loose weight...
There's a few books out but they are pretty pricey so il google the allowed foods etc it's all new to me so wondered if anyone here had some info on the foods ect.
Sound like I need to really research it ....
I heard it has great health benefits and even used against diabetes etc.
Il retead your response soon as we are out so I briefed over it but great info and I'm still keen to try it albeit temporarily
Oh and giving up the sugary wines... Bugger me....
There's a few books out but they are pretty pricey so il google the allowed foods etc it's all new to me so wondered if anyone here had some info on the foods ect.
Sound like I need to really research it ....
I heard it has great health benefits and even used against diabetes etc.
Il retead your response soon as we are out so I briefed over it but great info and I'm still keen to try it albeit temporarily
Oh and giving up the sugary wines... Bugger me....
08-02-2016, 14:34
Ella,
Try a high protein / low carb diet, without going ketogenic.
This diet is usually used to make the body burn fat for energy instead of carbohydrates. So it causes a problem with lifting weight, or running fast. Also causes a headache for a few days, as the brain needs to switch over to running on ketones.
The closest options (Not ketogenic, just high protein) are South Beach, Atkins, Okinawan, and Mediterranean diets. Paleo is also fairly close.
And in our lovely (commercialized) world, Atkins and South Beach are just names - follow the Paleo concept whenever possible, if it comes in a pouch, box, or bag, it's NOT. FOOD. ;-)
E.G., Atkins is a Low-carb diet. But you can find "Atkins" brand granola bars (fiber). Most fiber comes from vegetable, I.E., Carbs.
High protein, good fiber, plenty of fat, to effect a mild ketogenic method of living, seems best for normal life. E.G., infants spend a lot of time in mild ketogenic state. The idea is, you'll burn the fat between meals, and re-fuel with fat and carbs at meal time. That's meant to replenish fat stores, not provide immediate energy. We've just altered the types of carbs in our diets - try finding anything without sugar. Chips, drinks, condiments, frozen foods, spices, processed meats, canned foods, soups, juices, etc, etc, etc. And all of that is VERY BAD. It's known to destroy the blood vessels (Infusion of dextrose, following damage to intestines, for example; see "roarofwolverine.com" for an example; be warned, it's graphic medical images. Click on the "about me" link.) It's also bad for the body, to be messing with insulin that way. Diseases of civilization include diabetes.
(Real) Atkins was meant to combat that.
It's a good plan, but you don't want to go "ketogenic diet" (meant to lose weight) because (Per readings on t-nation), women tend to lose fat from top - down. So, face, chest, breasts, waist, hips, legs.... Men lose from center first: visceral and belly first, then chest, back, butt, then upper arms and thighs, then forearms and calves. Might be able to tinker with that, but would likely also affect breast growth. :-P
Keep us posted how you progress. Measurements and photos will be more important than scale weight. ;-)
-Dianna
Try a high protein / low carb diet, without going ketogenic.
This diet is usually used to make the body burn fat for energy instead of carbohydrates. So it causes a problem with lifting weight, or running fast. Also causes a headache for a few days, as the brain needs to switch over to running on ketones.
The closest options (Not ketogenic, just high protein) are South Beach, Atkins, Okinawan, and Mediterranean diets. Paleo is also fairly close.
And in our lovely (commercialized) world, Atkins and South Beach are just names - follow the Paleo concept whenever possible, if it comes in a pouch, box, or bag, it's NOT. FOOD. ;-)
E.G., Atkins is a Low-carb diet. But you can find "Atkins" brand granola bars (fiber). Most fiber comes from vegetable, I.E., Carbs.
High protein, good fiber, plenty of fat, to effect a mild ketogenic method of living, seems best for normal life. E.G., infants spend a lot of time in mild ketogenic state. The idea is, you'll burn the fat between meals, and re-fuel with fat and carbs at meal time. That's meant to replenish fat stores, not provide immediate energy. We've just altered the types of carbs in our diets - try finding anything without sugar. Chips, drinks, condiments, frozen foods, spices, processed meats, canned foods, soups, juices, etc, etc, etc. And all of that is VERY BAD. It's known to destroy the blood vessels (Infusion of dextrose, following damage to intestines, for example; see "roarofwolverine.com" for an example; be warned, it's graphic medical images. Click on the "about me" link.) It's also bad for the body, to be messing with insulin that way. Diseases of civilization include diabetes.
(Real) Atkins was meant to combat that.
It's a good plan, but you don't want to go "ketogenic diet" (meant to lose weight) because (Per readings on t-nation), women tend to lose fat from top - down. So, face, chest, breasts, waist, hips, legs.... Men lose from center first: visceral and belly first, then chest, back, butt, then upper arms and thighs, then forearms and calves. Might be able to tinker with that, but would likely also affect breast growth. :-P
Keep us posted how you progress. Measurements and photos will be more important than scale weight. ;-)
-Dianna
08-02-2016, 14:38
(08-02-2016, 05:26)ellacraig Wrote: Oh and giving up the sugary wines... Bugger me....
Yeah... I love my Bourbon Long Island Iced Tea.... Gotta make sacrifices for beauty, right?
Or in my case, to get into positive territory... I'm "In the red" on that account.
And I caused it!
That means it's an "easy" fix, at least. ;-)
-Dianna
Yeah, ketogenic is meant as a short-term rapid weight loss diet. DO NOT go ketogenic as a long term diet plan. As Dianna also suggested, I suggest high protein, moderate fat, low carb, and especially stay away from sugary foods. That includes naturally sugary foods like fruit and honey.
Ketogenic diets also tend to be very expensive even as a short-term rapid weight loss diet. A good diet is not cheap either, but ketogenic is even worse.
Do make sure you get enough fiber though, even though it'll APPEAR to bump up your carb load to about even with your fat, fiber is not actually digested and therefore does not have an impact on carb load, despite the label.
Ketogenic diets also tend to be very expensive even as a short-term rapid weight loss diet. A good diet is not cheap either, but ketogenic is even worse.
Do make sure you get enough fiber though, even though it'll APPEAR to bump up your carb load to about even with your fat, fiber is not actually digested and therefore does not have an impact on carb load, despite the label.
Hi. Thanks Diana and abi.
Think your right there, high protein low carb is better long term.
My problem being figuring out the sources of high protein when im trying to exclude meat ESP red where possible and having the BS diagnosis of IBS and being told to stAy away from gas producing foods aka beans... And veggies (according to dr and gastro dr)... to which I say Bugger off. If you don't eat greens where does that leave you...
But yeh thank you. Loosing weight isn't an option for me, I'm already a bag of bones as it is. Thanks
Think your right there, high protein low carb is better long term.
My problem being figuring out the sources of high protein when im trying to exclude meat ESP red where possible and having the BS diagnosis of IBS and being told to stAy away from gas producing foods aka beans... And veggies (according to dr and gastro dr)... to which I say Bugger off. If you don't eat greens where does that leave you...
But yeh thank you. Loosing weight isn't an option for me, I'm already a bag of bones as it is. Thanks
09-02-2016, 07:26
(08-02-2016, 14:38)Dianna1395 Wrote:(08-02-2016, 05:26)ellacraig Wrote: Oh and giving up the sugary wines... Bugger me....
Yeah... I love my Bourbon Long Island Iced Tea.... Gotta make sacrifices for beauty, right?
Or in my case, to get into positive territory... I'm "In the red" on that account.
And I caused it!
That means it's an "easy" fix, at least. ;-)
-Dianna
Ps heaven forbid I love my wines too ......
Re the pics and dimensions for tracking ll do in my thread as its under picture pages and I'm a bit neurotic about posting pics and likely delete them shortly after anyway but my dimensions pre "paleo/somewhat keto diet" will be posted
09-02-2016, 14:45
(09-02-2016, 06:55)ellacraig Wrote: Hi. Thanks Diana and abi.
Think your right there, high protein low carb is better long term.
My problem being figuring out the sources of high protein when im trying to exclude meat ESP red where possible and having the BS diagnosis of IBS and being told to stAy away from gas producing foods aka beans... And veggies (according to dr and gastro dr)... to which I say Bugger off. If you don't eat greens where does that leave you...
But yeh thank you. Loosing weight isn't an option for me, I'm already a bag of bones as it is. Thanks
So, how do you like fish?
I hate fish, but if you like it? Tuna (Suggest Atlantic caught), Salmon (Try Chinese recipes - my mom used to make some really good salmon, but couldn't cook white fish to save her "sole". ;-) ) Why do you wish to avoid meat? Beans are an incomplete protein, meat is a complete source of nutrition. ;-)
As to IBS - I understand MORE fiber is supposed to fix that, but not sure. It's a contradiction, though, to say "more fiber" and then "No beans, no veggies." WTF, not many sources of fiber... ;-)
Leafy greens are always good. Kale, Seaweed, Cabbage, spinach, broccoli, lettuces, spring mix, herbs. Stay away from grains: Corn, Wheat. Rice, maybe. Oats, Maybe. Rice is actually a grass; it's been a crop for so long, it's tolerable. Oats can be an issue, but high soluble and insoluble fiber. Can create gas (High fiber usually does.) Corn is generally GMO, so is wheat. Maize is OK. But Wheat? Two MAJOR problems here: 1, it's GMO, which means it's an unknown. It's been massively re-genomed since the 1950s, to produce more grain (seeds), and to grow shorter, and stand up straight, and resist pesticides, Roundup specifically. 2, in order to increase yield further, since it's "Roundup Ready," (Resistant to Roundup herbicide), the farmers drown the wheat in Roundup... Then harvest when it goes to seed (Plant's attempt to spread it's genome, survival through reproduction. Genome is patented, BTW.)
The roundup is never washed off... It's a neurotoxin to humans.
Guess what's in the bread!
There's a variation of Paleo for IBS, I think. I don't have a link offhand, though.
Only thing left to find is fats. Avocado is good, but a phytoprogesterone. Nuts and seeds can work well, and you can eat the oils directly. Salads, of course, with oils in the dressing. Try to use some Apple Cider Vinegar in there, too, it should help the IBS a little. But get the one that still has culture in it, the microorganisms are needed to help the gut flora.
BACON! Excellent option, get uncured bacon, cook it up, you get some protein and lots of fat, and it's not red meat.
I'd also suggest bone broth whenever possible. Chicken and turkey bones, and you can make it with chicken feet and giblets, get a lot of nutrition at least. Checks off some of the items on our lists, too, like collagen. ;-)
Hope this helps for ideas. It might also help to look up probiotics, and definitely include yogurt for a while - it helps gut flora, too. Supposed IBS is also "leaky gut syndrome," where things which the bacteria would eat get into the body and cause bad reactions - like anaphylaxic shock, but on smaller scale - more "allergic reaction" than "sudden death" - but anaphylaxis is an allergic reaction, so.... :-P
More gut flora is good, and if you've been on antibiotics, your gut glora is messed up already.
My paranoid side tells me that if "they" wanted to profit from us (They do), the place to hit us includes health/naturopathic remedies. So the probiotics could easily be GMO'd to not help, and that's where I go off the rails...
Q: What is better than being supplier to both sides in a war?
A: Create the war by causing supply and demand, including the soldiers, propaganda for both sides, and the tools used by both sides...
Think Ford in WW2, as an example. Not unique, but easily confirmed that they sold to the Nazis. (It wasn't illegal, BTW, but became illegal when war was declared. Did it continue? Well, do profits keep flowing..? )
Anyway - All we can do is TRY. The more you can do with fermented foods for a while, the better. Apple cider vinegar, kombucha, Kimchee (I think that's the name?), cabbage of various kinds. You can make this yourself, too, the recipes are out there - not sure how Codex Alimentarius applies over there, but you can probably find out easily.
Looks like I talk too much. ;-)
-Dianna
09-02-2016, 19:20
Dianna thank you.
You have provided some wonderful information here.
I'm just leArning about gmos wheat corn etc etc. hence my frustration, everything is tAinted these days and pure foods are soo had to come by.
Re codex I'm just learning about this, as it is my country is starting to push anything natural under the carpet. It puts me in a panic just thinking about it.
They have already banned one VERY natural food based nut which is devastating but there was no warning, no way for the public to appeal or even be warned it was coming. And now they are setting their sights on other life saving supps and are going to make them prescribed only.. It breaks my heart but wtf can we do.
You have provided some wonderful information here.
I'm just leArning about gmos wheat corn etc etc. hence my frustration, everything is tAinted these days and pure foods are soo had to come by.
Re codex I'm just learning about this, as it is my country is starting to push anything natural under the carpet. It puts me in a panic just thinking about it.
They have already banned one VERY natural food based nut which is devastating but there was no warning, no way for the public to appeal or even be warned it was coming. And now they are setting their sights on other life saving supps and are going to make them prescribed only.. It breaks my heart but wtf can we do.
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