[Lotus]

Here's a before and after pic.

The 2nd pic was my best cycle till now.

They are perfect!

Yes, gorgeous. Fish oil could be at the root of the acne, imo from triglycerides upregulating DHEA, (check the label to verify). It also looks like it upregulates LH (lutenizing hormone) to produce more T.

[hannah]

Wow you've achieved some amazing growth Odile!! Good job..are you happier about them? Everytime I grow I tend not to be happy, afraid to loose it again in another cycle:p One question bout your program though, whats 5 htp?

[Odile]

Hey girls,

I've been out for a while, too much work and I was also sick. Thanks for your kind words, as always. I'm going to update about the last cycles.

First, to answer Hahnnah, the last before/after pic was taken on my best cycle, and yes, I always lose the swelling when my period comes

But let me tell you what I was doing then, when I got that swelling, before, and now.

At a certain time, as I'm super low in progesterone, I've decided to start taking pregnenolone along with PM and internal progesterone..no swelling and boobs were very tight.

Stopped and went back on vitex, and boobs were alive again! But then I got sick and had to stop everything, so I was just massaging and pumping a little, and BAMM!! that swelling!! When the period came, the swelling disappeared. And never had a great swelling again and was with a severe acne condition since a long time ago, and growing new body hair.

So I've decided to go to a good endocrinologist. She prescribed me an antibiotic for 40 days because of the severe acne, and 100mg/day of spironolactone to help with the acne and new body hair. And also a very complete hormonal blood test. She's wondering if I will need to be supplemented with E. When I got the results I will post them here.

So, for now I'm just taking the antibiotic and the spironolactone, and thinking in adding a bit of white peony to help with the aromatase. I'm trying to insist on massage, as I always felt that is the key for me (but I'm always so short on time. grrr.). And I have to confess that I've discouraged in recent cycles. And start thinking in considering surgery Well, I will wait for the blood results and see what comes next.

[hannah]

Hey girls,

I've been out for a while, too much work and I was also sick. Thanks for your kind words, as always. I'm going to update about the last cycles.

First, to answer Hahnnah, the last before/after pic was taken on my best cycle, and yes, I always lose the swelling when my period comes

But let me tell you what I was doing then, when I got that swelling, before, and now.

At a certain time, as I'm super low in progesterone, I've decided to start taking pregnenolone along with PM and internal progesterone..no swelling and boobs were very tight.

Stopped and went back on vitex, and boobs were alive again! But then I got sick and had to stop everything, so I was just massaging and pumping a little, and BAMM!! that swelling!! When the period came, the swelling disappeared. And never had a great swelling again and was with a severe acne condition since a long time ago, and growing new body hair.

So I've decided to go to a good endocrinologist. She prescribed me an antibiotic for 40 days because of the severe acne, and 100mg/day of spironolactone to help with the acne and new body hair. And also a very complete hormonal blood test. She's wondering if I will need to be supplemented with E. When I got the results I will post them here.

So, for now I'm just taking the antibiotic and the spironolactone, and thinking in adding a bit of white peony to help with the aromatase. I'm trying to insist on massage, as I always felt that is the key for me (but I'm always so short on time. grrr.). And I have to confess that I've discouraged in recent cycles. And start thinking in considering surgery Well, I will wait for the blood results and see what comes next.

Ah noo im sorry for you about the acne...thats real bad..I hope you find the cause of it asap. Or maybe your hormonal panel shows high dht...Im curious what the results will be anyhow. But if so you are going to kind off going to do the HRT route? I can understand how you feel discouraged somehow....I expected it to be easier sometimes too...though with some gainings i cant really complain...im also very unfaithfull with the massages..its so unhandy sometimes..tired arms..lol.
Anyhow let me talk you out of surgery...its not worth it... and if I remember it right you were against it too earlier!

[Odile]

Hi girls,

I've not been around for a long time. The work during the summer is crazy so I can not be consistent with nbe. And as I've told you the last time, I've been a little bit discouraged too.

My hormonal results have arrived and I've ended for now the treatment for the acne issues, I'm really better. I'm just taking the birth control pill and when the winter arrives, my doctor will prescribe me another dose of medicament for acne and skin treatment.
Unfortunately, I always have bad acne crises when I'm taking herbs for nbe, but this time was the worst.

Here the results of the last blood tests that doctor prescribed me:

Hormone ----- Values ----- Reference Values

(T4) ------- 124 nmol/L ----- 58 - 141

(FT4) ------ 17.5 pmol/L ------ 11.5 - 22.7

(T3) ----- 2.40 nmol/L ------- 0.92 - 2.79

(FT3) ------ 7.5 pmol/L -------- 3.5 - 6.5

(LH) ------ 8.8 mUI/mL ------- < 14,7

(FSH) ------- 4.6 mUI/mL ------- 1,2 - 9,0

(E2) ------ 96.8 pg/mL ------- 27 - 246

Progesterona ------ 5.83 ng/mL ------- 0,72 - 17,80

17OH-progesterone ------ 3.30 ng/mL ------- 0,20 - 4,70

Prolactin ------ 15.6 ng/mL ------ 1,9 - 25

Total Testosterone ------ 0.44 ng/mL ------- 0.08 - 0.48

Free Testosterone ------ 0.80 pg/mL ----- <2.57

Delta-4-androstenediona ----- 2.4 ng/mL -------- 0.3 - 3.7

(DHEA-SO4) ----- 141 μg/dL --------- 35 - 430

Cortisol ----- 16.5 μg/dL --------- 6,24 - 18,0

11-Desoxicortisol ----- 3.9 ng/mL --------- <8.0


Anyone wants to chime in about these results??

High values of total T but low of free T.
High androstenedione as usual.
On the other hand I'm not so high in prolactin as I used to be.
Low progesterone but not so low 17OH-Progesterone.
High cortisol.
Low E2.
It means the same right?! That I should continue with a pro aromatase and anti 5-alpha reductase programe?!
That my natural hormonal path converts the 17OH-progesterone into high values of cortisol and into high values of androstenedione. In turn, the androstenedione is being essentially converted into testosterone and testosterone into DHT. And almost nothing of andros and testosterone is being converted into E!?

What to do about the high values of total T but so low of free T?


So this is here I stand now. I really want to come back with lots of energy to nbe, but be really careful with the use of herbs. I still think that massage does a great job for me, and want to be more consistent with pumping.

About herbs, I'm taking vitex just during follicular, and white peony and licorice during the all cycle.
I'm thinking in adding again reishi during all cycle, and walnut leaf during luteal.
I'm still applying PC during luteal too.

[Odile]

A quick update..

I'm taking vitex, white peony, licorice, ginko and not so religiously reishi, for the last days. Along with the birth control pill...And the acne is coming back!!!

I've shown my doctor and she thinks that I should start taking right now isotretinoin, instead of waiting till the winter. I was wondering if I should keep taking spironolactone instead, to DHT control.

I don't really know what herb keeps making me have these acne crises I really want to continue with NBE but the acne is very severe and I can't live with it, I've already have some acne scars, something that I've never had during puberty.

I've already reduced my herbs intake, and I really thought that what was making me have these acne crises was maca or mucuna or bo...or maybe fish oil as Lotus have suggested, but I'm off of these for a long time now.

Anyone has any sugestion? NBE is already a game of patience but having to deal with this severe acne along the path, turns it a lot harder to keep focused and encouraged.

[James98]

FWIW many have had great success with just massage with coconut or flaxseed oil and noogling. No herbs.

[EllaC]

A quick update..

I'm taking vitex, white peony, licorice, ginko and not so religiously reishi, for the last days. Along with the birth control pill...And the acne is coming back!!!

I've shown my doctor and she thinks that I should start taking right now isotretinoin, instead of waiting till the winter. I was wondering if I should keep taking spironolactone instead, to DHT control.

I don't really know what herb keeps making me have these acne crises I really want to continue with NBE but the acne is very severe and I can't live with it, I've already have some acne scars, something that I've never had during puberty.

I've already reduced my herbs intake, and I really thought that what was making me have these acne crises was maca or mucuna or bo...or maybe fish oil as Lotus have suggested, but I'm off of these for a long time now.

Anyone has any sugestion? NBE is already a game of patience but having to deal with this severe acne along the path, turns it a lot harder to keep focused and encouraged.

Do you drink milk? Ive read dairy promotes acne

[hannah]

A quick update..

I'm taking vitex, white peony, licorice, ginko and not so religiously reishi, for the last days. Along with the birth control pill...And the acne is coming back!!!

I've shown my doctor and she thinks that I should start taking right now isotretinoin, instead of waiting till the winter. I was wondering if I should keep taking spironolactone instead, to DHT control.

I don't really know what herb keeps making me have these acne crises I really want to continue with NBE but the acne is very severe and I can't live with it, I've already have some acne scars, something that I've never had during puberty.

I've already reduced my herbs intake, and I really thought that what was making me have these acne crises was maca or mucuna or bo...or maybe fish oil as Lotus have suggested, but I'm off of these for a long time now.

Anyone has any sugestion? NBE is already a game of patience but having to deal with this severe acne along the path, turns it a lot harder to keep focused and encouraged.

Do you drink milk? Ive read dairy promotes acne

Ella is right(i had acne problems for 1 year, now its solved as long as i do the right things) which is for me: no animal fat,like full fat cream, milk, not too much sugar and cacao. Then dont wash my face with soap..just with lemon or orange juice or apple cider vinegar...only organic otherwise the bumps shoot out off my skin. Dont scrub your face...youll spread the bacteria! And an additional thing not nessecary but it makes my skin softer: astaxanthin...a VERY good anti-androgen and anti-oxidant supplement...if youll take this..dont skip doses bc rising androgens even if andro's are very low might cause you acne too. Especially luteal phase is risky for me to breakout...so AA's are important for me in that phase. Hope this helps...for me this was it. Also bcp caused me trouble for at least one year after stopping it.

[Odile]

A quick update..

I'm taking vitex, white peony, licorice, ginko and not so religiously reishi, for the last days. Along with the birth control pill...And the acne is coming back!!!

I've shown my doctor and she thinks that I should start taking right now isotretinoin, instead of waiting till the winter. I was wondering if I should keep taking spironolactone instead, to DHT control.

I don't really know what herb keeps making me have these acne crises I really want to continue with NBE but the acne is very severe and I can't live with it, I've already have some acne scars, something that I've never had during puberty.

I've already reduced my herbs intake, and I really thought that what was making me have these acne crises was maca or mucuna or bo...or maybe fish oil as Lotus have suggested, but I'm off of these for a long time now.

Anyone has any sugestion? NBE is already a game of patience but having to deal with this severe acne along the path, turns it a lot harder to keep focused and encouraged.

Do you drink milk? Ive read dairy promotes acne

Ella is right(i had acne problems for 1 year, now its solved as long as i do the right things) which is for me: no animal fat,like full fat cream, milk, not too much sugar and cacao. Then dont wash my face with soap..just with lemon or orange juice or apple cider vinegar...only organic otherwise the bumps shoot out off my skin. Dont scrub your face...youll spread the bacteria! And an additional thing not nessecary but it makes my skin softer: astaxanthin...a VERY good anti-androgen and anti-oxidant supplement...if youll take this..dont skip doses bc rising androgens even if andro's are very low might cause you acne too. Especially luteal phase is risky for me to breakout...so AA's are important for me in that phase. Hope this helps...for me this was it. Also bcp caused me trouble for at least one year after stopping it.

Thank you for your answers girls. But actually I don't drink milk or consume milk derivates for a long time. Sugar and cacao, Hannah, I can relate with my acne problems too, when I'm consuming more I see the difference on my skin. I can relate bad digestion with acne too, consuming a lot of flour makes me have problems with digestion, as well as gases, and the acne increases too. About vinegar and lemon it's difficult because I have very sensitive skin as well, with some rosacea, so as in some places it's very oily, in others is very sensitive and dry. Maybe I'll try to apply some organic vinegar that I already have, just on acne spots.

I dk about astaxanthin, but I will definitely search, thanks Hannah. AA's always interest me, ahah. Maybe what I need is to increase anti-andros, but I've already tried with reishi, and CO internaly, as well as white peony, and the acne always comes when I'm on herbs.

My doctor thinks I should start right away with isotretinoin, but I'm considering to stay with spironolactone for a while more to keep the dht low, and see if I can handle the small amount of herbs that I'm taking right now, without having acne breakouts.