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Progesterone for younger gals?
February 6 2009 at 7:48 PM
Dreamer (Login LuCLu)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hey.

I'm 23, and wondering if Progesterone would be beneficial for someone my age even though i'm not premenopausal or even anywhere near that stage of life? Plus, i live in CA and there are warnings on all of the progesterone creams that say that it has "a chemical know to the state of california that could cause cancer." It doesn't say this for any other state i guess because CA has proposition 65 on "safe drinking water and toxic enforcement" act or something. It's the same progesterone (obviously) used in creams sold in other states, which many of you ladies are already using. Progesterone in creams is supposed to be "bio-identical" to that which is already produced by our bodies, and found to be less of a risk for cancer as apposed to the synthetic progestins.

So i'm wondering if even though im not menopausal, can i still use it during the luteal stage of my period to boost my progesterone to balance my dominant estrogen? It's been said that healthy and baanced hormones cause growth.

Any thoughts? thanks!




Antheia
(Login Antheia)
Re: Progesterone for younger gals?
February 6 2009, 9:04 PM

I think others could answer this way better than I can, but I have read that estrogen dominance is the most common hormonal imbalance that occurs in women of all ages, especially in the west. I'm not sure why this occurs, I think it may have something to do with the amount of xenoestrogens we consume through pesticide residue and other such sources. (Again, I'm just taking a stab at this based on what I've read on this site and other sites, so I'm not sure.)

Based on this, I believe that you may be able to benefit from progesterone, I am 25 and I started using it during my last luteal phase because I believe that I am also estrogen dominant. I didn't have cramps at all during my last period following the PC application, the flow was more consistent (sorry to be gross, but usually I have some weird brown and pink blood starting out along with terrible cramps, then normal blood, this month I just had normal blood and no cramps, which has been a relief!), and my breasts were not as sore at all, and less lumpy feeling. I'm not sure if the breast issue has to do with the cream, or the massaging that I have been doing, though.

I asked about PC with phytoestogens in it in a post, and waxingmoon gave me some great info on it, too, so her answer may be worth a read for you. (See "phytoestrogens in progesterone?") I added this in my reply because she touches on estrogen dominance in her reply.

Maybe I just had a great period, or maybe the cream is doing something, I'm not sure at this point. Best of luck to you, I hope this helped in some way!




Dreamer
(Login LuCLu)
SENIOR MEMBER
Thanks!
February 9 2009, 5:43 PM

Hi!
I do appreciate your response. I think it's helpful knowing that someone else young and in her reproductive years (you) is taking it as well. I wasn't sure what to expect or what age would benefit from it? But since you're taking it and it has helped you, it's reassuring! I def. think i've got an estrogen dominance hormonal imbalance because (sorry to be graphic also) sometimes i'll get vaginal dryness when my husband and i are trying to come together, and i've read that it's because of a hormonal imbalance...which kinda made me think anyways that it must be alright for me to take the PC. There's so many different kinds, but i've researched that the ones with "usp progesterone" are the best because this specific form of progetserone is not synthetic and is "bio-identiacle" to the actual hormone we produce making it more effective. Anyways.....thanks for your response!

Feel free to let me know how it goes, i have the same kind of strange brown in my flow often. Thanks!




Antheia
(Login Antheia)
Re: Progesterone for younger gals?
February 11 2009, 10:09 PM

You're welcome, I'm glad to help! That's why I love this forum, everyone is so helpful, and you get a chance to talk to people who have the same types of issues that you do. It's nice to know that there are others your age that experience the same symptoms, and that others have been there and have found a possible solution. I had that same problem during sex, but since I've started my NBE program I have noticed that it's been a bit better. I hope everything works out for you, happy NBE journey!

~Antheia



Sailorvenus44
(Login sailorvenus44)
Re: Progesterone for younger gals?
February 12 2009, 3:07 AM

Dreamer: I don't know if you read my other post, but I only just turned 18. I think NBE works better for younger girls, and I just so happen to have had strong estrogen-dominant symptoms for years, so I started taking Progesterone a month ago. My breasts grew, and my depression/stress/insomnia/fat storage only in hips and butt/other estrogen-dominance-related problems, started to fade with it.

2 days ago I got my period and my period appears to feel less painful now as well. I used to always be on the floor in pain on day 1 of my period. The Progesterone seems to have cured that as well.




Dreamer
(Login LuCLu)
SENIOR MEMBER
PC and places to put it.
February 12 2009, 5:29 PM

Thats so encouraging to hear about the PC. All through out my adolescent years from 12 to about 19 i would have severe pain and cramps on day one of my cycle. I had to go to the hospital to get an IV once because i was so dehydrated from throwing up for 13 hours!...straight!!.....so they checked my blood to see if i had endometriosis, which i don't...I just think it was a case of bad hormonal balance. When i turned 2o the cramps lessened, and still arent as bad, but i've been on BC pills for the last 10 months. This is my first time off of them in that long. My husband and i have decided that we're going to be doing fertility awareness and natural family planning instead. Kind of like either way, if we're blessed with children, then so be it, we'll love it, if not...which is what our plan is, then great, too.

ANyways....I want to see if i can cure my vaginal dryness, headaches, bad circulation(cold feet and hands) and possibly grow some beautiful breasts on the side from balanced hormones

Ig ues it would make sense that you would NOT have to use the PC on your breast everytime. LOL. Thanks for clearing it up though. WHats the best rotation? Inner arms, inner thighs, Chest(by "chest" do they mean on your breasts directly???), wrists....etc....and then start over again?

thanks Ladies!




Antheia
(Login Antheia)
Re: Progesterone for younger gals?
February 12 2009, 6:40 PM

Hi Dreamer!

I believe the idea behind rotation is that it helps your body absorb the cream more efficiently. I have read that it is a bad idea to put PC directly on the breasts because you run the risk of creating an imbalance from your body storing excessive progesterone in the fatty tissue. The best places to apply progesterone cream are places in which your skin is thin, and blood circulation is high. I usually follow this method:
1.) Right wrists and underside of lower right arm (the cream never fully absorbs if I just apply it to my wrists like some suggest.) for the first application.
2.) Next application I'll do the left wrist and underside of lower left arm.
3.) Next application I'll apply it to the right side of my neck, on the side and the right-back side.
4.) Next the left side of the neck, (side and left-back side)
5.) Next application I'll apply the cream to the back of my right knee.
6.) Next application I'll apply it to the back of the left knee.

I usually repeat from step 6 back to step one and start over, but you can also chose to rotate this further by applying the cream to the tops of your feet, one time on the left, the next time on the right, and I've even read that the palms of your hands is also a good spot. Just keep it away from your stomach, breasts, thighs, or any other area that has fatty tissue.

I hope this helps! Best wishes for your and your husband, I hope that you both will be blessed, let us know how it goes for you!

~Antheia




Dreamer
(Login LuCLu)
SENIOR MEMBER
Interesting...
February 12 2009, 7:26 PM

Antheia,

That's interesting that you say to avoid those "fatty tissue places" because i got a brand (Emerita) which is supposed to be one of the top brands to go for. It says "Apply it to your inner arms, inner thighs, abdomen, or chest, rotating the areas where applied.." So i just thought i was interesting to actually avoid those areas.

It says on the bottle to use it 2x per day...So then would you do right arm in the morning, left arm at night type of thing?




Antheia
(Login Antheia)
Re: Progesterone for younger gals?
February 12 2009, 8:06 PM

Hello,

I thought the same thing about the fatty areas too, because my bottle also says to do apply in the same areas that your bottle says. I'm mostly going from what I have read in this forum, so I can't say if that is 100% correct or not (sorry!).

Yep, you got it, right in the morning, left at night kinda thing (or whichever).

Here is a past post that I read about the fat storage thing:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...+the+Risks

Here is a post in which waxingmoon gives a very detailed and helpful account of PC, and mentions the thin skinned areas:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/486111/th...axingmoon)

And here is another post from Helen that has a lot of helpful information, and has a rotation schedule (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://www.network54.com/Forum/486111/th...rone+Cream

I hope these will help you! I'll keep you posted on any progress I have made with PC as well.

~Antheia




Dreamer
(Login LuCLu)
SENIOR MEMBER
Antheia
February 12 2009, 9:01 PM

You're so helpful, thanks lots!

[admin]

progesterone cream / freeing up receptors
February 1 2009 at 5:55 PM madboobie (Login madboobie)
SENIOR MEMBER
HI,,I am sure I've read somewhere on the forum that the use of progesterone cream frees up oestrogen receptors and can be a positive if supplements appear to work for a couple of months, then stop working (as the receptors are all filled?)

Have ben trying to find it but it's taking me ages and no luck so please let me off if this has been done to death (alternatively please ignore!)

I would also be interested on people's opinions on PM and progesterone cream.

Frankly i am getting sick of having a dodgy cycle no matter what I do with the PM and am wondering whether progesterone cream after the 15 days of PM would help to regularise things?

I do think Pm is a positive thing in terms of NBE but the messed up periods are getting to me.

Thanks for any help.




waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: progesterone cream / freeing up receptors
February 2 2009, 5:10 PM

Hi Madboobie,

Progesterone causes the activation of dormant estrogen receptors. It does not 'free up receptors' per say. If you have some estrogen receptors that are not taking in any hormone, then it will 'wake them up' and they will begin to function. This causes a rise in total body estrogen.

Progesterone also balances the harmful effects of estrogen. Without enough progesterone the body is subject to a whole host of wicked symptoms detailed in estrogen dominance lists.

So, if a person is taking something like PM which is more potent than their body's natural estrogen they are already running a risk of the symptoms of estrogen dominance. Also, taking oral estrogen increases greatly the risk of blood clots. The blood clot effect is diminished if the estrogen is topically applied (I know they offer PM as a topical agent - this would reduce your risks).

I am afraid your idea of using the progesterone to 'balance' the PM might instead increase your risk of heightened estrogen producing bad effects (like estrogen dominance symptoms) or very bad effects (like blood clots, strokes and increased risk of cancers).

It is my opinion (but hey, when have I ever held back... lol) - you are already doing something that is risky as far as your hormone health is concerned. Don't make it worse by using another hormone to try and increase your body's total estrogen further. Progesterone is a hormone - not an NBE tool. It comes with risks and in the situation you are describing it would actually increase your risks.

As I always say - your health is your greatest wealth - nobody is going to remark on your big hooters if you are lying there in a casket. Keep healthy.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon



SvelteCutie
(no login)
Re: progesterone cream / freeing up receptors
February 2 2009, 6:18 PM

Thanks for the info waxingmoon. You saved me from buying progesterone cream for that very purpose.



SvelteCutie
(no login)
Re: progesterone cream / freeing up receptors
February 2 2009, 6:28 PM

I was thinking this over and I'm a bit confused. So pc will wake up estrogen receptors but balances out estrogen at the same time. The reason why it won't balance out pm is because...pm is a more potent estrogen being introduced in the body? So pc only balances estrogen made by the body and not outside sources? Forgive me if I'm wrong but this is the general gist I get of it from what you're saying.



madboobie
(no login)
to waxing moon, would you please tell me what you think of this?
February 3 2009, 1:29 PM

Thanks for your reply to my question.

I'll show you what set me off on that course of thinking - I've pasted it in below - its a response form Wahaika to another post by moi a while ago.

What you beleive seems a little different to what he beleives and I'd be really interested in your thoughts on his thoughts!!

Just trying to make sense of everything, really.

You sound as though you think PM is one of the more risky NBE agents? Given the effects on periods I'm inclined to see the sense of this.

Anyway, here's the post....



Receptor sensitivity is brought on by depriving the receptor of it's target hormone. Estrogen receptors are the most sensitive when they have been deprived of estrogen the longest.

The reason that I would say that most manufacturers recommend days 1-14 is because that is when estrogen is the lowest and therefore estrogen receptor sites are the most sensitive. For the other lady who has the website that recommends days 7-21, I would say that she is just putting that principle to work by waiting longer. I think that this is logical but by running further into the cycle, she runs into the ramp up of progesterone. So, she does have a better idea in my opinion, but I would say to start on the day that menstruation ends, whenever that is, and to go for 14 days from that day. Further, to help support the cycle as much as possible, I would say to:
* Take a one day break on ovualtion day which is around day 12 to 14 when lutenizing hormone is at its peak OR
* Rather than lower the dosage, remove days from the length of time that PM is taken. Example: Start PM on day 5 for 14 days. If a 28 day cycle is 29 days long, take PM for 13 days the next month. OR
* Take progesterone cream on the day after the last dosage of PM for that month. OR
* Some combination of the above.

The reason that PM is probably interfering with the cycle length (and spotting) is because PM must interfere with progesterone somehow, perhaps by competition. It should be remembered, that a lot of early breast development takes place before menarche (first period) when there is, in theory, not yet any progesterone manufacturing due to the lack of ovulation/corpus luteum. NBE is really more of a focus on estrogen.

If I were to take a guess, I would say that a one time dosage of USP progesterone cream on the day after the last dosage of PM for the month may help keep the cycle regulated. For estrogen receptor sensitivity, I think that the best days are (end of menstruation day) to +14. Trimming days off the length of time PM is taken is probably a better idea than lowering the overall dosage. On the other hand, I don't know of anyone who has tried ramping PM.

Wahaika


Whaddya think? Big thanks to you x




waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: progesterone cream / freeing up receptors
February 4 2009, 2:57 AM

Hi Sveltcutie,

Here more specifically is what I am saying. PM influences your total body estrogen higher than normal. Progesterone cream's initial effect is to make available even more estrogen receptors which will push the total body estrogen even higher. To 'balance' this increase even more progesterone would need to be used.

The net effect of this is to raise in your body two hormones that are known to increase the growth of estrogen/progesterone sensitive cancers. This is hardly something I would recommend to anyone. Not only that, but overdosing on either hormone can and will lead to some serious side effects - even if they are not lethal - feeling as bad as you can with excess estrogen or excess progesterone is not good.

Why subject yourself to such an increased risk just to make your breasts bigger. It is one thing to use progesterone in order to balance what might be occurring naturally in your body. The proper treatment of estrogen dominance also advises removing the sources of increased estrogen. Those sources are found in pesticides, solvents, artificial hormones in non organic meats, etc.

To push your estrogen levels up then try and compensate for the misery you are causing your body by pushing your progesterone levels up is a recipe for disaster. It also is unlikely to provide lasting growth. Once this elevated level of hormones is halted, there would likely be a loss of the 'growth' gained. Are you willing to keep your hormone levels abnormally high all your life in order to keep any gains you might make?

I always promote sensible and safe NBE. I don't think it is any news to anyone that I am not a big fan of using strongly potent phytoestrogens (like PM, soy and Red Clover). I work with several people that are suffering from the effects of cancer and I advise everyone to steer clear of known hazards. We know estrogen promotes growth of some cancer cells. We know progesterone promotes the growth of some cancer cells. The only safe way to handle this information is to use the least amount of anything that could raise estrogen or progesterone levels.

Used correctly, phytoestrogens and progesterone can be very safe and very healthy. Let's all do everything we can to guard that most precious item - our health.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon





SvelteCutie
(Login SvelteCutie)
Muy Interesante
February 4 2009, 4:04 AM

Hmmm, ok. So though Pm will indeed give an increase in breast size it probably won't be lasting once stopped because it is introducing abnormally high estrogen levels to get the boob increase in the first place. Is this right? If so, then PM has an effect much like how bcp inflates breasts in some but once women go off it, some women breasts will deflate to their previous size even though they may have been on it for a long time? Well given that they didn't gain weight during that time too.

Well drat. I will not be taking PM forever, don't have the interest in doing so. I can see how trying to use progesterone can cause a cycling effect that would eventually make too many hormones in the system after awhile.

And I have all this pm. Well I could always make it into a cream and hope for the best, unless the topical effect would end up temporary also.

So the next thing would be to find a phytoestrogen that would work for me. The main potent phyto-estrogens aren't much of an option for me. Fenugreek lowers my blood sugar much too low(I'm hypoglycemic) and saw palmetto makes me very moody. I have hops in liquid form and plan to use it. Oh but this just reminded me. My adrenal levels are off. And after much reading I keep getting that these have to be in order before I go messing with my hormones to attain BE. Have you dealt with individuals with stressed adrenals? I've read ashwaganda and omega fatty acids are good for supporting them and helping them to balance, I just want to nudge them back into the right direction before they get so out of hand I'll need steroids to correct them.

And soy milk and soy isoflavones a no-no?




SvelteCutie
(Login SvelteCutie)
One More Thing, lol
February 4 2009, 4:29 AM

What is your take on growth hormones? I've come across info for and against it, but after reading that growth hormones are absolutely needed for breast growth I don't what to do with it. I don't know what to do with myself either. I have always been an AA cup. And it's ONLY me and my mom who are this small. Aunts, grandma, cousins have much bigger boobs, at least a B cup. Thru carrying 4 kids my breasts never really grew that much during pregnancy. I did get up to a loose b after having them but it was milk. :/ I can live with small breasts for the rest of my life, I just want to see if I can indeed get them to grow some.



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: progesterone cream / freeing up receptors
February 4 2009, 1:32 PM

Hi SvelteCutie,

Real growth hormone is very expensive. They will sell you all sorts of 'precursor' agents that supposedly enhance your body's production of GH, but those are not necessarily proven to work. Also, just like the other hormones, when GH is taken above what the body needs it results in some very negative things.

You can naturally enhance you body's production of growth hormone through avoiding sugar and doing muscle building exercises. This will naturally enhance your system and can increase your breast size without putting you at risk.

However, you should broaden what you consider NBE as well. Not every program calls for the use of things that will take the body away from hormone balance. There are very successful programs that use massage or suction. These have an equal or greater track record to the herb routines. The massage is free and the suction methods can be obtained for very little money (of course some are quite pricey).

You have a great attitude about you self and what you want from NBE. With that approach you would probably do great in a non herbal routine.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

[admin]

Progesterone cream with phytoestrogens included?
February 6 2009 at 5:48 AM
Antheia (Login Antheia)
Hello everyone!

I took a few online tests, such as the Dr. John Lee's hormone test, and I kept coming up with the estrogen dominance result---hooray. I bought some progesterone USP cream, and after I started using it I noticed that the cream I purchased also has phytoestrogens in it. If I am using this cream to try to activate dormant estrogen receptors and achieve hormonal balance, does anyone know if the chances of this occurring are hindered by the fact that phytoestrogens are also in the cream? Or would this even make a difference? My logic may be erroneous, but I would assume that increasing estrogen levels with phytoestrogens may conflict with trying to balance your progesterone levels at the same time.

Also, should phytoestrogens not be consumed at all when one is trying to balance hormones, or should they only be taken on days 1-14 of the cycle, and then progesterone cream on days 15-28 (assuming that one has a 28 day cycle), or does it not matter?

Oh, and one more question, should vitex be taken throughout the course of the NBE journey to promote the body's production of progesterone (is this what it does? I think I read that somewhere), or should it be stopped once a hormonal balance is achieved?

Yikes, maybe I should have split those up, or put a warning in my message title; I wish being tremendously confused was a paid profession...

Thanks for any info!

~Antheia




waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Progesterone cream with phytoestrogens included?
February 6 2009, 1:10 PM

Hi Antheia,

Many of the progesterone creams will have phytoestrogens in the mix, but not all. It can be very helpful if a woman is both low in estrogen but lower in progesterone (fairly common in the above 40's group).

Progesterone is fat soluble and easily absorbed through the skin. Estrogen is not easily absorbed through the skin - but some of the phytoestrogen will be absorbed. So it will be a scenario of you having both progesterone and some mild form of estrogen introduced into your system.

Yes your dormant estrogen receptors will be activated, causing an immediate rise in your total body estrogen levels. These phytoestrogens may be able to compete with your body's more potent estrogen for these sites and somewhat reduce the total effect of estrogen rising. Meaning -it is a good thing.

If you do not believe you are one of the estrogen dominant with low estrogen, then for your next batch of progesterone choose a cream that does not have the phytoestrogens. You should be fine with what you have for 2 or 3 cycles. Of course if you think you may be a low estrogen case then continue with this type and it will help to mildly elevate your estrogen.

Now as to your question "should phytoestrogens not be consumed at all when one is trying to balance hormones, or should they only be taken on days 1-14 of the cycle, and then progesterone cream on days 15-28 (assuming that one has a 28 day cycle), or does it not matter?" It depends...

If you use very low dosage phytoestrogens you can fill your receptors to block more potent estrogen from activating them. This would be a job for crushed flaxseed. In this scenario you would take the crushed flaxseed daily. If you want to support you estrogen (raise it) then the idea of using phytoestrogens during days 1 - 14 would make sense. However, even if you want to raise estrogen, watch out for the more potent phytoestrogens. Red clover and licorice are progesterone antagonists - in other words they will fight to reduce your progesterone. A good choice of phytoestrogen for an estrogen dominant woman is fennel.

As for "should vitex be taken throughout the course of the NBE journey to promote the body's production of progesterone, or should it be stopped once a hormonal balance is achieved?" Vitex does raise progesterone levels by acting on the pituitary gland. It creates a state where the body will produce more progesterone from the corpus luteum after ovulation. The only drawback of vitex is that it suppresses prolactin production. Therefore, its use should be limited to what is necessary for hormone balance.

Good luck with your journey. If you want to read my long and rambling account with estrogen dominance then check out my program page.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon




Antheia
(Login Antheia)
waxingmoon, you rock!
February 6 2009, 8:36 PM

Thank you so much for all of that information, waxingmoon, that made a lot of sense and is very helpful! I'm so grateful for the people like you who have been doing NBE for a while, and who have a wealth of knowledge to share with all of us, thanks for helping blaze the trail so that the rest of us can have a smoother journey!

PS--I read about your maca experience, very hilarious I might add, and intriguing. I don't have a huge chest at all, but my booty is even smaller, so I'm going to add maca to my routine to balance it out a bit, as well as some squats. I'll stick to the recommended dosage, though, another lesson learned from waxingmoon! =P (Hopefully I'll avoid the dragon breath, I already smell a bit mapley from the fenugreek in other places...)

Thanks a billion,

~Antheia

[admin]

exp. growing hair(breast) - Progesterone cream
January 29 2007 at 4:22 PM cher (Login cherasia)
Hi, Does anyone experience after using progesterone cream on the breast had grown hair??

I Just bought progesterone cream and had applied on my breast for around 2 weeks. I apply more on the smaller breast and today morning I realise my smaller breast have small tiny hair more obvious and more compare to my bigger breast. It grows outside the areola area. Because I never apply the cream on the areola part.

Worry!! Anyone know why and what happen?



mark
(Login sunnyMark)
Re: exp. growing hair(breast) - Progesterone cream
January 29 2007, 4:27 PM

i thought it's not recommended to put progesterone cream on your breast, do you use progesterone cream or wild yam creaam?



cher
(Login cherasia)
Re: exp. growing hair(breast) - Progesterone cream
January 29 2007, 5:06 PM

Dr wong recommend on the breast so i tried. it is USP progesterone cream.



cher
(Login cherasia)
Re: exp. growing hair(breast) - Progesterone cream
January 29 2007, 5:10 PM

This is what He reply me from email

The reason for that opinion is that absorption is delayed when the progesterone is applied to areas of subcutaneous fat. Other researchers though say that they prefer those sites for application as it creates a pool of progesterone available for a longer time to the body. I prefer application to the sexual organs for the physiological reason that there are more hormone receptor sites there than anywhere else on the bodies surface and absorption and utilization is there fore faster and more complete.


Be well and God bless,
Dr. Wong




www.DrWong.us
www.DocsPrefer.com
www.MaleEnhancementBook.com
www.DrWongsBooks.com
www.EnzymeAnswers.com
www.EssentialsRadio.com



Charity
(no login)
Re: exp. growing hair(breast) - Progesterone cream
January 29 2007, 6:21 PM

I take progesterone cream and I have not experienced this. I read on many different sites that say you shouldn't apply the cream to the same location more than every fourth day. So rotate what area of the body you put the cream on. I rotate neck, chest, breast, inner arm. I have only done this for one month and have experienced a little growth. Also make sure you're not using the incorrect dosage.



cherasia
(Login cherasia)
Re: exp. growing hair(breast) - Progesterone cream
January 30 2007, 11:07 AM

Thanks charity for the advice. I will try rotate different area. They indicate inner thigh and arms and neck.Is it means any area of the neck? what and where is inner thigh and arm means?



Charity
(no login)
Re: exp. growing hair(breast) - Progesterone cream
January 30 2007, 5:01 PM

The inner arm is the underside of your arm. Turn your hands palm up and apply the cream anywhere from the wrist up to the elbow. On the inner thigh I apply around my bikini area. I've read that this is a really good place to apply because there are a high concentration of progesterone receptors there.



cherasia
(Login cherasia)
Re: exp. growing hair(breast) - Progesterone cream
January 31 2007, 3:35 PM

Thank You so much, Charity

[admin]

Waxingmoon- Question about Progesterone Cream, Estrogen Dominance, Stretch Marks, and NBE?
December 2 2007 at 6:04 PM sophie (Login sophie9)
Hi...
I'm asking Waxingmoon, but anyone else who can answer, please help me out! So I have been doing well on the PC. I really do notice a difference in my anxiety levels. I do feel "relief", and it occurs rather quickly. Sort of amazing. I just read through your entire program, and I see your program has basically been approached knowing you have estrogen dominance. My cream was specially formulated for my by a lab to help balance my own personal progesterone levels. It also includes DHEA. I have stretch marks on my breasts, and I know that high estrogen levels can cause one to develop stretch marks, but what about progesterone? Is it all female hormones? It was recommended I apply it to fatty areas, so I have been sticking to inner thighs and my rear. I just do not want my stretch marks to worsen. Does it matter where you apply the cream as long as it is absorbed into the skin? I have normal estrogen levels. I would rather have smaller breasts than worsen the stretch marks I already have. Do you always apply it to your breasts? I was instructed to use a 1/4 tsp. of the cream on once at 8am and a second time at 6pm. So far so good. I missed one day and whoa - what a difference - I felt like a NUT! It was rather bizarre. So okay, my point is, do you know anything about progesterone application to stretch marks? I know estrogen thins the skin, but I don't know about progesterone.
Also in reading your program page, I have had horrible anxiety problems for a very long tim. I am 27. My doctor said I have probably been estrogen dominant for at least 10 years - that sounds about right. I also CRAVE sugary foods and always have. I am on a special diet for my imbalance and it is VERY hard to stick to it. The diet is supposed to be incredibly important, and I'm not following it as closely as I should. I also eat a lot of pasta/starch foods. I'm sorry; I just don't feel like eating vegetables, nuts and fish 24/7. But I suppose I should try as much as possible. So reading your program page made a lot of sense in terms of my own experience - the anxiety, insomnia, sugar craving. Something very traumatic happened in my life 10 years ago, and I have been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Panic Attacks, Anxiety Attacks. I have had really bad problems with depresion. I was surprised to see one of the symptoms of ED was obsessive thinking, and well, I've had OCD since age 7. My obsessive thoughts have even been reduced. I try really hard to reduce my stress and everyone tells me how key exercise is (I know you are an expert in that!) but I still am lacking there. Did you notice changes in breast size just from using the progesterone cream to get your body into balance? I have a lot of quesions - sorry! But it would be helpful to have answers from someone who has gone through it. I have shrunk since stopping NBE. I suppose it is something I can deal with, but I think had I never started, I wouldn't be this small. So that is sort of disappointing. I also plan to get that book you mention in your program page; apparently it is a good book for women of all ages with hormone imbalances. Well, thank you in advance - I know I asked a lot of questions. If you could answer some I would be appreciative. Anyone else who can chime in, feel free as well!

Sophie




waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon- Question about Progesterone Cream, Estrogen Dominance, Stretch Marks, and NBE?
December 2 2007, 6:50 PM

Hi Sophie,

I don't mind answering your questions at all. I hope I can help.

You have been instructed to apply your PC to fatty areas. The advice I received indicated I should avoid using fatty areas and place the cream on thin skinned areas. This was to enhance absorption and reduce the storage of PC in fat tissue. I also know that some are advised to use fat areas - the idea being it restore the body's progesterone stores and provide a slower release of progesterone. Both ways sound logical, but I stuck with the teachings of Dr. John Lee and used thin skinned areas.

I only applied the cream to my breast to resolve a fibrocystic area. It worked for this -but I did not apply it every day, just every third day I was using the cream.

I started off using 40 - 60 mg of progesterone per day. Dosages vary based on the total amount in your cream, but you are probably using about 40 mg total with your two doses. This should help you resolve your estrogen dominance. I assume you are using it during days 12 - 28 of your cycle.

As far as progesterone and stretch marks... The initial application of progesterone will activate dormant estrogen receptors - so things that are worsened by estrogen may have a temporary increase. I noticed my estrogen dominance symptoms were heightened during the first 3 months of use because of this. They did resolve as I kept using the cream and now I have virtually none of the symptoms I had before.

It is likely if your stretch marks are exacerbated by estrogen they will begin to fade with the continued use of progesterone. If your stretch marks are from some other reason then the progesterone may have no effect on them. I noticed a marked improvement in my skin overall with the continued use of PC.


Anxiety symptoms were one of the things the PC resolved for me. It was an immediate effect and if I have anxiety now I apply the PC and it resolves within a few minutes (this is usually a night time phenomenon for me).

Your diet is extremely important. In order for the PC to work the best for you the diet should have a high amount of protein (so that your body will have the building blocks for creating the hormones you need). It is not unusual to have trouble sticking to a new eating regime. No-one ever has an easy time with this kind of change. The best thing to do is to focus on one aspect of the diet at a time. Cut down on things at first instead of eliminating them completely. Add in the items that are recommended one at a time until you are eating them every day. Take a day off the diet once a week. This will help you feel less deprived of the old foods you love.

Exercise is the fountain of youth. It will do more to resolve your stress and anxiety than anything else in the world. It is also hard to stick to an exercise plan at first. Don't try to do more than an hour of exercise a day at first- 20 minutes is a great amount. Stick to simple things at first. Take an exercise class at least once a week. -Always choose a beginner level and realize some teachers are really horrible at their job. If you do not like the experience then find another class. Get a friend to go with you. Take a walk. The choices are endless.

As far as breast size and PC. Yes, I did notice an increase. It was almost immediate and quite a surprise to me. My breast growth continues today and is mostly because of the use of PC to balance my hormones, along with high protein intake.


Do get Dr John Lee's book. It will help you a lot and give you answers to things you didn't even know you needed to know.

Best wishes to you in your journey to improved health,

waxingmoon



Heloise
(no login)
more ideas... GABA Green tea and Brahmi...
December 3 2007, 10:02 AM

I've come across interesting articles about the effect of gamma amino buteric acid GABA (or lack of) on increasing anxiety during PMS and jsut generally. I've been taking Brahmi and Gingko for anxiety and improved concentration, and have just ordered some GABA (a particular amino acid - see below). Also started drinking Green Tea because Green Tea contains L-Theanine and this in turn increases the level of GABA (gamma-amino-butyric acid) which relaxes and may provide relief from anxiety. If the caffeine in Green Tea bothers you it is possible to order L-Theanine separately.

I'm sorry I don't have time to collate the materials I've recently come across but the following info seems like it might be of interest in this discussion... There are plenty of other articles out there if you tap in the keywords GABA PMS and Green Tea. (Happily too GABA can be plant derived & also increases human growth hormone in the body so has the side-effect of developing a leaner body mass if one is overweight.)

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helt...s11123.htm

"Well what happens, in premenstrual syndrome, is that a hormone called progesterone is elevated in the second half of the menstrual cycle, and then it drops to very low levels right before the premenstrual period. It's also elevated during pregnancy and drops right at childbirth as well.

But it's not progesterone that's the problem here, it's actually a metabolate of progesterone. Progesterone is converted into another hormone called alopregnanolone and this hormone is really interesting. It acts a lot like a sedative, like valium or even alcohol for instance, in that it can make you feel relaxed, it reduces anxiety, it reduces seizures, and it acts in the brain like these other drugs actually, to increase the effectiveness of a transmitter, a chemical in the brain called GABA."

Hope the above was interesting.
Cheers
Heloise



sophie
(Login sophie9)
Re: Waxingmoon- Question about Progesterone Cream, Estrogen Dominance, Stretch Marks, and NBE?
December 5 2007, 12:04 AM

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions, Waxingmoon!
Just one more...I promise: as long as the cream is absorbed into your body, does it really matter where you apply it? I was told to apply at specific times - 8am and 6pm - and use one area for the morning and different area for evening. So because I have been afraid of making my stretchmarks worse, I have abstained from applying the cream there. So the point is that the progesterone is absorbed right? Do you attribute your growth to using the cream on your breasts or just using the cream in general?
I also have noticed immediate results - wow! I mean...it truly is amazing. It isn't just a relief from anxiety, but more of a relief from "nerves." I don't know exactly how to describe it. I have been experiencing a sort of "wired" feeling as well; is that due the waking up of estrogen receptors? Okay, that is question #2 I suppose, but did you experience that as well, and do you think that is what the reaction is? I simultaneously feel relief AND a wired hormonal feeling...sort of strange.
Okay...question #3 - was the change you noticed in your skin an all-over skin improvement or a was it changes in your facial skin? I feel like my stretchmarks may look slightly more pronounced and I am wondering if maybe it is due to the estrogen receptors. Any stretchmarks I have I got when I was before age 21 and from what I've been told, they are related to taking the pill - probably also already being estrogen dominant and taking the pill, so my skin thinned. Do you happen to know what progesterone alone does for the skin? I'm hoping by raising my progesterone levels my skin will be stronger. The whole age acceleration thing I find sort of scary since I take really good care of my skin.
And yes, you are so right about exercise being the fountain of youth! My grandma has exercised her entire life, is 75 and she has men pursuing her who are old enough to be her son! She eats healthy, walks, rides a bike, and has the same exercise routine to Michael Jackson's "Thriller" album that she did when the album came out (I remember doing it with her as a kid!) She has fun, her friends are my mother's age, and she enjoys her life. I think taking that time to make that mind-body connection everyday helps you understand where you fit in the grand scheme of life and makes living a happier experience. I have a hard time being an "optimist," and it probably has to do with the work I do. I work, work, work, and my life lacks balance. So your emphasis on laughter, or whatever it is that makes you happy, I think is so important. My naturopath said everytime we do something for ourselves and are happy we help balance our hormones. Playing music for me is a big stress-reliever. None of it works without stress reduction, and I am doing the diet in small steps. I think your positivity really helps everyone on here. Exercise definately gets your endorphins moving. I've realized lately that if I don't balance my life with other things besides my work, I just cannot be happy...or healthy! So I'm working on it and I'm hopeful. I'm definately getting that book. The one thing I've noticed, and if you wouldn't mind answering question #4, I have noticed I feel sort of stomach cramping similar to menstrual cramps. It is bloating I suppose. Did you experience this? Do you know why it happens? Okay...that was 5 questions - sorry! I will get that book, and I'm sure it will answer many of my questions; it is just nice to hear from someone who has gone through it. Sorry for being so long-winded!

sophie


...and thanks Heloise for your response as well. I drink decaffinated green tea. People with anxiety are always told they should drink caffiene, but from what I understand the effects of caffiene on anxiety are a little more complicated than caffiene causing anxiety. I can drink caffiene in small amounts. I try to stay away from coffee, but I do like green tea and it does help keep me going without making me anxious. Since I take an anti-anxiety prescription, I don't try natural methods just yet. I have in the past done some homeopathic stuff. It does help, and does tend to help balance hormones. I know taking Xanax right now is more of a bandage than a solution, but I'm working with what I have. Hopefully in the not to far-away future I will talk to my naturopath about natural ways to help residual anxiety. Thanks for the replies!



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon- Question about Progesterone Cream, Estrogen Dominance, Stretch Marks, and NBE?
December 5 2007, 7:44 PM

Hi Sophie,

I broke the following down into any questions you asked in order to make sure I answered them all. Don't worry about asking a lot of questions. I will be glad to answer anything I can.

Question : as long as the cream is absorbed into your body, does it really matter where you apply it?

Yes. If you place it in areas with high fat content, some of the progesterone will be stored in the fat and some will go into circulation. If you place it in areas with low fat content and high blood supply, the progesterone will enter circulation without being stored in body fat. So yes, both ways will be absorbed, but there will be a slight difference. You do need to rotate the areas where you apply the cream in order to enhance absorption. The reason for the specific times is also to maximize absorption and keep your body with a more constant level.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question : So the point is that the progesterone is absorbed right?

Yes. Even though there is some difference in how it is absorbed, both methods (fat areas versus non fat areas) are endorsed by doctors - so depending on what your doctor was trying to achieve with your progesterone you have been advised to use it a certain way. Ultimately - both ways work.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question o you attribute your growth to using the cream on your breasts or just using the cream in general?

Just using the cream in general. I grew before I ever applied the cream to my breasts. I only used the cream on my breast to resolve a fibrocystic lump. I don't think it is necessary to apply the cream to the breasts. I don't think applying progesterone to the breasts will enhance any NBE effect. It is the progesterone in circulation being used by the body for various hormones that causes any NBE in this regard.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question : I have been experiencing a sort of "wired" feeling as well; is that due the waking up of estrogen receptors?

Maybe so. Progesterone itself would cause relief from anxiety - the initial heightened estrogen response from the increased receptors could cause the symptoms you are reporting.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question : - was the change you noticed in your skin an all-over skin improvement or a was it changes in your facial skin? I feel like my stretchmarks may look slightly more pronounced and I am wondering if maybe it is due to the estrogen receptors.

I noticed an over-all improvement, but there was definitely an improvement to facial skin. Any breakouts I had been having were completely eliminated. Also, I had been experiencing skin issues as a result of hypothyroid symptoms brought on by the estrogen dominance (dry, flaky - puffy eyes). This was also resolved with the progesterone. As far as your stretch marks looking pronounced, it may indeed be a response to the estrogen receptors and also there could be more luteal swelling due to this estrogen response.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question : I have noticed I feel sort of stomach cramping similar to menstrual cramps. It is bloating I suppose. Did you experience this? Do you know why it happens?

It's probably that mean old estrogen again. You may initially experience a worse PMS during your first month or two of use due to the increase in estrogen receptors. This could mean more water weight gain, bloating and cramps. Have no fear though. If you use the progesterone for long enough it will all be resolved.


Sounds like you are on the right track. Keep up the good work.

waxingmoon

[admin]

HELP!!!! - INSOMNIA CAUSED BY PROGESTERONE - SHOULD I STOP TAKING IT COMPLETELY?????
December 26 2008 at 5:20 PM Sailorvenus44 (Login sailorvenus44)
I am 18 and believe I am estrogen-dominant (I have suffered from depression, excess acne, ad insomnia for years, plus I have a pear shaped body).

I have been in denial in my two other posts.

I have only been taking Source Naturals Progesterone cream for a week, 1/2 tsp twice a day as directed on the tube. but I noticed a trend with each day/night of use, that it has been harder and harder for me to sleep. And for the past 3 days I have not slept at ALL. As in - go to bed. Lay in bed. Watch the sun come up. For THREE DAYS. I have gotten acid reflux out of NOWHERE, which will NOT go away, and I feel like I am going insane, my skin has been jumping and I feel like some sort of unwilling drug addict. Right now it is 7:00 AM where I live and I have been up all night lying awake in bed until I decided enough is enough and turned my computer on to type this. I really do not know what to do. My mom's gynacologist said that the prog. cream was safe to use, so I used it despite my mom's worry.

I THOUGHT the prog. cream would help me... I researched it's effect on estrogen however and realized that it may compound estrogen levels at first because when you take progesterone your estrogen tolerance is lowered and therefore levels of estrogen may rise. But I have taken the Phyroestrogenic herb Fenugreek in the past (NOT NOW of course) and did not have this problem. So why is this happening? Did I use too much cream at first? Did my progest. receptors completely shut down? (I went happy-go-lucky the first 3 days, applying it on my breasts 3 days straight, but still at the lower reccomended dosage of 1/2 tsp twice a day...) WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?

I NEED HELP now... school starts in another week and I can't afford to lose this much sleep. I feel terrible. IS IT SAFE to just stop the cream completely (after using it for 7 days)? I won't start hemmoraging when I get my period, will I? God, I don't know what to do. I feel like an idiot who should have just listened to their mom. (She doesn't know anything about the effects of natural progesterone cream, but she DID tell me, "DON'T PLAY with hormones," which I didn't think I was, but now I am very confused.

HELP... PLEASE.




Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
HELP!!!! - INSOMNIA CAUSED BY PROGESTERONE - SHOULD I STOP TAKING IT COMPLETELY?????
December 26 2008, 7:59 PM

Always listen to your mother.

I am looking at Source Naturals Progesterone Cream right now at this link:
http://vitanetonline.com/description/SN1...one-Cream/
This is definitely a good one as progesterone creams go, but is this the one you are using?

If so, look about half way down and you will see "Serving Size: 1/4 teaspoon." You were using 1/2 tsp - twice as much as the recommended dosage.

Also, you were putting it directly on the breasts. Never, ever, ever put it directly on the breasts. It always goes somewhere like forearms or thighs or anywhere else, but not on the breasts.

The days to use progesterone cream, if you need it, are from days 14 to 23 then stop until next cycle. What day are you on?

I would say that it is OK to just stop. Your body will automatically adjust and you really need your sleep.

You might also have a good long talk with your mother, since she sounds like she is informed concerning hormones, about estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, and growth hormone, and what each are for, and when they cycle, and why.

You might also ask yourself why you need progesterone cream. It sounds like it had a good effect on your mood at first, but when you stalled followed by continuing to use it, it acted like pouring water into a full glass.

What was your decision to use progesterone cream based on?

Is your room completely dark including lights from clocks?

Do you live above the equator or below?

And, just to be safe, what cycle day are you on? (it may make more sense to ramp down depending on the cycle day)

Wahaika




This message has been edited by Wahaika on Dec 26, 2008 8:33 PM




Sailorvenus44
(Login sailorvenus44)
Re: HELP!!!! - INSOMNIA CAUSED BY PROGESTERONE - SHOULD I STOP TAKING IT COMPLETELY?????
December 27 2008, 1:06 AM

Yeah, that's the cream. I have the smaller tube version of it though.

Sorry, I meant 1/4 tsp. LESS than 1/4. (I dunno why I typed 1/2. well I was tired...)

Well, to update things, I just fell asleep at 8:00 this morning and awoke at 3:00 PM... (after taking melatonin for sleep)

I live in Hawaii. It gets hot here, but it's not hot at night right now, so I shouldn't be feeling this way.

I took the cream about 3-4 days after my period stopped. But my periods are irregular anyway...


School ended a week ago and at that time I was actually up until 3 in the morning for days and weeks at a time because of multiple last minute projects (and it wasn't always because of procrastination, either, I really did have things piled on me specifically at the last minute, etc...) SO that could play a part in this as well. I remember I started taking the progesterone the day school ended. (Friday) the night before I had been up until 3:00 AM again. On Sunday I read that it shouldn't be applied on breasts for multiple days in a row, or any body part for days in a row for that matter so I started on a rotation.

Just a question, why can it only be applied to breasts every 4 days?? Does it do something bad? Or is too much or too little of it absorbed???

By the way, thank you for all your help so far.




Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
HELP!!!! - INSOMNIA CAUSED BY PROGESTERONE - SHOULD I STOP TAKING IT COMPLETELY?????
December 27 2008, 1:21 AM

In general, specifically where BE is concerned, all growth comes to a screeching halt. There are some women who do well with it, but they are very few and it is probably only a temporary need. Every case is arguably different, but one thing that is very reliable in most cases is that progesterone cream is going to stop growth.

That being the case, it is just a logical extension of that reasoning that leads one to avoid putting it on the breasts directly. That's it.

There are some uses for progesterone cream to clear estrogen receptors, and that is to use it for a day before the menstrual cycle hits, and on day 14 or so at around midcycle or shortly thereafter. Again, only for one day to clear estrogen receptors. This is all theory. I do not subscribe to it 100% but I have seen where women have used it successfully in this way in the past.



sailorvenus44
(Login sailorvenus44)
Re: HELP!!!! - INSOMNIA CAUSED BY PROGESTERONE - SHOULD I STOP TAKING IT COMPLETELY?????
December 27 2008, 2:10 AM

I see...sort of.

Um... This doesn't mean that by putting it on my breasts for 3 days in a row my breats can no longer grow for the rest of my life, does it?

What do you reccomend I do for now? Stop? Wait and try it again next cycle maybe? (a little later, and without applying it to breasts at all?)



Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
HELP!!!! - INSOMNIA CAUSED BY PROGESTERONE - SHOULD I STOP TAKING IT COMPLETELY?????
December 27 2008, 4:37 AM

The effects of progesterone cream are temporary. I would say to go through a minimum of a two cycle break, taking nothing. Go the first cycle to do a reset and use the second cycle to watch and see if everything is back to normal.

What to do next depends on your stats. The only one that I can think of for you is that you are 18. (BTW, you can still grow/develop until as late as 26)




This message has been edited by Wahaika on Dec 27, 2008 4:40 AM




Sailorvenus44
(Login sailorvenus44)
Re: HELP!!!! - INSOMNIA CAUSED BY PROGESTERONE - SHOULD I STOP TAKING IT COMPLETELY?????
December 27 2008, 9:32 PM


Thank you so much for all the help. To update things, I've noticed I can sleep in the day for some reason (on average falling asleep at 8:00AM and waking up at 3:00PM-ish) but just not at night. perhaps it is not the progesterone at all doing this to me, but the fact that I had been up every night for weeks prior to this doing school work.

Today I will be stopping the cream, so we'll see. Then I'll restart about 2 cycles or so from now, as you said. Hopefully I can correct my sleep pattern by then so that when I take progesterone the next time I will have a better indication of its effects and if it really was interfering with my sleep after all.

P.S. Here's some detailed background on me. I turned 18 in November but I hit puberty at about 13.5 years. (I was born 3 months premature so I will be truly 18 in about February) At 14 years old my mother's gynocologist examined me and told me my breasts were fully grown at 34B (however the left breast is an A) They have not changed since. BUT most things doctors have predicted about my life have turned out wrong. They also told me that at 15 I had achieved my final height of 5'5", however 3 years later I have grown to be 5'8". This is just one example and there have been many more (Since I was born so premature I'm sure there can be a lot of growth anomalies with me.)

My mom had 36Cs at about 18 years old (she hit puberty earlier than me at 11, so perhaps this could happen to me at I dunno 20 or 21 ish), but her breasts then grew to 40DDs when she was pregnant with me. I figured my breasts could therefore benefit greatly from progesterone, seeing as it is the hormone largely responsible for bigger breasts during pregnancy. I also believe it could correst an estrogen dominance I think I have had for quite some time; my upper body is much smaller than my lower body, I have insomnia, depression, and acne and constant PMS symptoms which greatly fluctuate, and still have slightly irregular periods. In general I have read that the whole "fully grown at 18" theory is false in a lot of cases and that women can keep growing into their 20s, breasts, face, all of that, but perhaps just not as an average or a rule anyway. (I've seen pictures of people who had changed greatly from the time they were 18 up until the time they were 23)

Well, that's all I can think of for now. I think the Progesterone has great potential for helping me with my PMS, mood, and of course breasts, but maybe starting it the day after a night-long cram to finish all my final school projects was poor planning. I also won't apply it to the breasts so frequently next time.