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How does N B E work?
February 25 2006 at 5:04 PM KimmyP  (no login)

Hi, im new and im confused about how herbs are suppose to make breasts grow. whats happening that causes NBE?




SugarQ
(no login)
Re: How does N B E work?
February 25 2006, 6:23 PM

HI KP, welcome

Ummm... to start off i will say that no one knows for sure how NBE herbs work but we do have some ideas but to undersand them you need to understand how Breast enlargement works in general.

Now most of the NBE theories and methods stem from the idea of how breasts grow during puberty and during pregnancy. they are both a periods in time when breasts natually will grow (other then weight gain and hormonal imbalances). Now the difference between the two is that puberty gives you a more perminant growth then pregnancy. Now during puberty estrogen, IGF, progesterone, Angrogens, Prolactin, all have a hand in causing NBE. now we dont know for sure how much exactly of each you need but a guess of the general mix would be: excess estrogen (mainly estradiol being the most responsible for NBE),low progesterone (at first estrogen comes and starts the work and later on progesterone comes in and finishes the job and so growth starts to slow a little after progesterone is introduced), low but still elevated androgens, elevated HGH and IGF levels, elevated prolactin . also fat plays a important role in BE. 85% of the breast is made of fat. and fat makes BE perminant. so body weight and BMI and body fat % are all proportional to breast size. during puberty body weight is said to signal the onset of hormone elevation. the hormone receptor sites are actually hidden in the fat cells so if you have little fat then you are going to have difficulty regulating hormones. which is my anorexic women loose their periods and have no breasts. also why fat women have bigger breasts. the more fat you have the more estrogen you have and the more balanced your hormone cycles are. the key body weight during purberty is 105pounds for girls. so if you were not able to achieve that by age 13 it may give you a clue as to what the problem was at preventing you from developing larger breasts.


Now during pregnacy what causes NBE is actually the elevation in progesterone. both estrogen and progesterone rises but when they are both elevated together it provents estrogen from effectivly storing fat in the breast but the progesterone will make the breast bigger. progesterone actually gets the breasts ready for producing milk and enlarges the glands and further completes breast development. progesterone can cause the breast to grow as much as 2 cupsizes and during puberty when a girl starts menstrating when progesterone peaks breasts seem to grow the most. also later after puberty during the luteal phase when progesterone begins to peak some women will get swollen breasts or breast pains. progesterone actully slows breast growth (fat storage) but it does help with NBE when you get the right balance of it relative to estrogen. thats why women with bigger breasts tend to get BE more while on a BCP. they already have elevated estrogen levels and so adding a progestin based BC will cause cause the estrogen receptors to be more sensitive and firther enlargement may occure. some growth may be perminant.


we want a balance. so if you are very low in androgen taking testosterone or DHEA supplimentation will help NBE. yes, theoretically androgens are bad for NBE but the right levels need to be achieved cause if not the NBE wont happen. androgens and estrogen levels are proportional so if you have very low androgen levels then your estrogen levels may be low as well. androgen can convert into estrogens so they are important and you dont nessasaryily want to get rid of it completely. also you want elevated prolactin levels. prolactin helps both progesterone and estrogen develop the breast. with estrogen it helps to store fat primarily in the breast . estrogen is a tricky hormone cause it wont just cause NBE but actually it will cause fat storage all over the body. so prolactin helps to specifically cause NBE buy making estrogen have more of a specific action on the breast itself. http://www.endotext.org/male/male14/male14.htm gives you more of an idea of what prolactin does. progesterone inhibits prolactins full expression. so during pregnacy progesterone will actually prevent lactation and it also will inhibit estrogen and prolactin from working togeter fully and store fat in the breast. another important hormone is IGF. HGH will actually stop fat storage (during excersise HGH levels increase to help burn fat also excersise increases testosterone levels) but HGH is a precurser to IGF. IGF will help it with moving fats and increase storing fats. it also helps with to increase the full action of progesterone and estrogen on the breast. without it estrogen and progesterone cant do anything. the link above really talks about IGF's importance also another good site is http://beboard.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=medical&action=display&thread=1070212047 which talks about a study done which links BE with estrogen and IGF levels. very important to understand their relationships.

Now we come to the herbs. Fenugreek may help with prolactin levles so its not exactly like an estrogen. if act its has a low estrogenic activitly just like Wild Yam. but for some reason it seem to be very good with NBE. and one reason maybe because it it recommended for increaseing milk production which means it may increase prolactin levels. all this means that it has the potential at causing NBE. Now other herbs which contain isoflavons act like estrogen and will bind to estrogen recepters but will have a weaker activity. phytoestrogens will compete with natural estrogens in the body and it will clog up receptors. the way the body will try to over come this is by making more estrogen which is good. but elevated estrogens will quickly cause stalling. which is why progesterone is important. it helps to keep the receptors active. but because our natural cycles have periods where progesterone peaks and drops it may actually work agains NBE. one way to over come this is with a progestrone blocker. may phytoestrogens actually have progesterone blocker built in. like fennel and red clover. there is good and bad things with Progesterone blockers. one bad is that it will disrupt your natrual flow and cause elevated estrogen level problems.so i would say stay away from progesterone blocker. theoretically blocking progesterone will cause more progesterone to be produced but at some point the body will turn itself off completely because its making too much so overall it may lower progesterone levels. thats how its suppose to work but i dont know it thats a fact cause its never been proven. so i guess the best way to do NBE is to just increase estrogen levels relative to progesterone. if you are low in progesterone then you may need to boost it up a smig for NBE to be effective as well. boost prolactin levels through breast massage or pumping or prescription drugs like reglan and domeridone (drugs have very seriouse risk and they need prescription in the US and canada. in the UK i think domperidone is available over the counter). and you can suppliment IGF with pure IGF forom colostrum or deer antler. also you can use GABA but you have to take it at certain times to encourage its natural conversion to IGF.


Now if this theory works we may have an increased cancer risk problem. there are many ways to lower these risks. one it to not do NBE too long. so breaks are important. there are suppliments like folic acid and Vitamin D that may reduce the risk of cancer. progesterone supplimentation will also reduce cancer risks. body PH is also important. you need to keep a body PH that is slightly alkaline i believe (someone correct me if im wrong cause i confuse this part). also increasing body oxygen levels through magnet therapy or stabalized oxgyen supplimetation. breast massage and moving the lymph around may help reduce cancer risk or at least help you to detect problems early. i know there is more so if anyone can add anything ive missed please do so. melatonin supplimentation helps reduce cancer risks supposedly. and i keep reading mixed reviews on DHEA causing or reducing cancer risk (so im not 100% sure about this one). also isoflavons will reduce cancer risks.


i think i got everything but hopefully someone can add more.

hope this helps KP,

HB



SugarQ
(no login)
Re: How does N B E work?
February 25 2006, 6:55 PM

oh i forgot to add in how oils fit into this mix and the theory on how oils may help with BE.

another important part about NBE is the idea of aromatization. where testosterone in converted into estrogen. this is how some men grow breasts abnormally. but it may be good to exploit for BE purposes. you need prostaglandins (PGE2 specifically) , aromatase and testosterone ( or the other androgen that starts with an A. sorry cant remember that one). now to make PGE2 you need a source.http://www.innvista.com/HEALTH/nutrition/fats/fishoils/intro.htm gives some sources. to make PGE2 you need Arachidonic Acid. I believe GLA ALA LA and DHA all convert into AA. but im not 100% sure. it was a member on the beboard name Wahaika that really indroduced this idea for NBE so the credic goes to him. you should check out some of his posts. he had an awesome insite into NBE. the enzyme aromatase isnt easy to increase. ive only been able to find ways to block it. so this method only works if you got enough of the enzyme already present. so overall, now you can try to block androgen levels and convert it into useful estrogen.

other then helping with aromatisation. the oils help to balance hormones and give a general good health so they are important.



SugarQ
(no login)
Re: How does N B E work?
February 25 2006, 7:05 PM

lol, sorry i forgot something again. another important factor in aromatization is body temp. you need slightly elevated body temp. cant remember the magic number though. sorry. the thyroid helps to regulate that so if thats not in order then youve got a prob. i keep reading about using Iodine/tyrosine to help with thyroid fuction also coconut oil. many members of the beboard use it when taking BO (bovine Overies. Bountiful Breast is a specific brand). so it may help. also cayenne and hot herbs may also help too.



Steph
(no login)
This wont even COMPARE to SugarQ's reply (lol)but...
February 25 2006, 11:26 PM

Here's my much less knowledgable feedback: The consumption of certain specific herbs (NBE herbs)can be used in a certain combination (its a matter of figuring out WHICH herbs in WHICH combination u need for YOUR specific body type and issues) to perfectly "balance" YOUR hormones which can THEN lead to breast growth in many woman.It all sounds complicated and it is to a very large extent however for most of us its a matter of being "estrogen dominent" yet at the same time having excess androgens (male hormones) as well (Saw Palmetto herb is great for correcting that issue).Well hopefully we were able to help u get a better idea of this proccess:-)



Angela
(no login)
Re: How does N B E work?
February 25 2006, 11:48 PM

Wow SugarQ, that was great! Now what if you can't take the oils? I have IBS and flax or borage oil bothers me too much to take so if we need this then what do I do? Thanks!

Angela



SugarQ
(no login)
Re: How does N B E work?
February 26 2006, 3:16 AM

angela, the oils are not as important as the the DHT blocke. the main thing you want to do is get rid of excess testosterone to keep testosterone in balance. you can block it or try to convert it. if you cant take oils you can try to boost your diet buy eating meat. AA is found in i believe dark meat (not 100% sure though). also there is an AA suppliment that body builders take.its usually comes in 200mg tab dosages. but i find that a bit too much for BE purposes.that kind of dosage helps to build muscle and too much AA can actually be poisonous but you can try to taking 1 tab every other day or so. other then that i think that Saw palmetto should be enough to do the trick. if not there are drugs like spironolactone that helps to block DHT.



Lisa
(no login)
Re: How does N B E work?
February 26 2006, 1:02 PM

SugarQ is right I think, when I first started on the herbs I only used Fenugreek, Saw Palmetto and a multivitamin and grew fine. Only since I started again this time I have added a GLA oil which does seem to make a difference since I have been sore for several days and it only seems to go away now. However, you can grow only with SP and Fenugreek, it may take a little longer but it works.
Good luck,
Lisa



KimmyP
(no login)
Hi, thanks HB
February 28 2006, 6:01 PM

sorry for taking so long to get back to yah. wow,thats alot of stuff. i did some searching and i came up with this site. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9098173&dopt=Abstract
it seems to talk about some of the stuff you mentioned. should i use a Birth control pill for natural breast enlargement?



Surf
(no login)
Lisa - which GLA oil?
February 28 2006, 7:34 PM

Lisa - Which GLA oil do you use? How much and in what form? Message, oral, both? Please give us details! Thanks in advance.




Lisa
(no login)
Re: How does N B E work?
February 28 2006, 7:42 PM

Hi Surf, I use Evening Primrose Oil 1000 mg one capsuel a day, it contains 90 mg of GLA.
I also open 2 capsules and mix them with about 2 tsp of baby oil and use that for massages. You can check out my routine on the other resources page under programs, if you have any more questions then just ask here.
Good luck if you are trying NBE,
Lisa



SugarQ
(no login)
Re: How does N B E work?
March 1 2006, 6:29 PM

NO KP, BCP isnt an effective way to cause NBE.

[admin]

hormonal balance
February 22 2006 at 2:14 AM Noelle (no login)

I am new to this and still trying to understand the role herbs play in balancing hormones Is there anyway to determine if you should increase a particular herb by paying closer attention to your body? For example, if you have hair growing on your breast or chin should you increase saw palmetto? If you have severe PMS or cramps should you increase your fenugreek?

In complete balance should you not experience any of the above?

Help anyone (especially HonB)




SugarQ
(no login)
Re: hormonal balance
February 22 2006, 5:38 AM

the quick answer to your question is yes and no. there are signs you can use to determine what you are lacking or have excess of. all the hormones like estrogen, and testosterone have key symptomes that show up. with everyone these symptoms are expressed differently and sometimes it may not be noticed by some. on the beboard there is link to a questionair that help you determine what imbalances you may have. its helpful but not accurate. even taking hormone test may not give the most accurate picture of what imbalanced you may have in you fit in normal range. if you are excess androgen then yeah a test will definatly pick that up. but someone who has excess androgen symtomes it may be that the body is a little more sensative to the hormone (for many reasones) and still fit the normal range.

Overall you want a high estrogen, lower progesterone and low testoserone for NBE. beleive it or not all these steroids have the potential of causing NBE. even testosterone can be converted into estrogen and cause nbe. and it happens. some women are androgen deficient and they suppliment with natural testoterone or precursers and grow. but in, lets say, the average or ideal woman. we want lower androgens.
progesterone does cause NBE. it develops and enlarge milk glands and cause swelling but it may also help estrogen with NBE. first off progesterone inhibit some of estrogens activities and helps balance things off. too much estrogen equal no growth because Estrogen recepter will become over stimulated and to over come this they desensitize and become less sensitive to balance off the excess. when you use progesterone during the time of a woman's cycle when progesterone is elevated breasts grow the most. why is that? its becuase progesterone help to resensitize estrogen receptors. so when you have an estrogen excess or a peak in estrogen progesterone will help make the excess estrogen more effective which is why women experience swelling during the luteal phase of their menstral cycle. it perfectly explainable when you consider when pregnant your hormone levels dont drop towhich signals new cycle. instread they rise. within the first 8 weeks of prengancy a woman will experiene between 1/2 and 2 cups of growth. during the luteal phase the body is getting ready for a potenial pregnancy and the increase in estogen and progestrone helps to get the body ready. which is why you get breast swelling which leads to more breast development once a woman is pregnant. now when you look at women who get increased breast size while on the pill. its typically women with already large breast who experience this. why is this? well women with large breasts usually have more estrogen and DHEA. once their pubecent growth stabalizes and the excess estrogen doesnt have too much of an effect on the breast tissue, adding a BCP with a high progestin or getting pregnant will cause increased breast size. the elevated progesterone helps to resensitize the estrogen receptors an the excess estrogen now goes to work again.

Now im dont know if herbs an effectivly achieve the needed ratio of steroids needed to NBE. fenugreek helps with milk production so it increases prolactin levels. prolactin works with estrogen to cause NBE which may be the reason my its considered effective for NBE as well. SP inhibits DHT but it im not too sure if that means it inhibits other androgen in general. if not and you got severe androgen excess then a prescription med may an option. other Phytoestrogen may actually decrease or increase estrogen levels instead of increase them. because of its less potent nature it will compete with natural estrogens and may cause an excess of estrogen where the body start to produce more estrogen to over come the less potent herbs (this may explain why women feel more unusual breast sensations and swelling during the luteal phase when progestrone begins to peak especially if they normally dont experience this when not on NBE.) but overall phytoestrogens may actually decrease estrogen levels becuase of its cancer inhibiting nature. phytoetrogens are weaker then natual estrogen and so the net effect may be a lower estrogen activity. lower estrogen activity lowers cancer risks. but lower estrogen activity also means less NBE success may be reduced.

Overall i dont know. all i know is that during puberty (when breast grow the most and is more perminant) estrogen is high and you start growing growth factors rise and progesterone is low. progesterone comes along and for some women growth BE is slower but progesterone does its job for breast development. and then by age 21 a woman should have a normal hormonal cycle so growth stops.its a good idea to take the questionair to see if you have any excesses or deficiencies. so you know what you need more of. if you do a routine and after 6 months you dont make much progress then get an actual test done and maybe more drastic steps need to be taken to experience growth. if you are excess adrogen and SP doesnt help then drugs like spironolactone may help with NBE. a common side effect in women who use it is NBE. and Transfemales use it as well to help with NBE. if you are estrogen excess (according to doctor lee most women are) then boosting progesterone may help with NBE. so Progesterone cream or BCP may help. if you are normal to low then some how you got to get the excess estrogen and the right progesterone balance to spur NBE. if you are underweight or have a low BMI and low body fat % gaining some pounds may help. you may need to take prescription hormones like pregnenolone ,DHEA,estradiol and testosterone. people who are low or hormone deficient respond better to natural steroids like teens, men and Menopausal women but it get harder to cause NBE if you are finished with puberty and have limited breast development (little or no glandular tissue). its hard to say c what to do cause its unclear in herbs are effective at meeting causing the excess estrogen and lower progesterone levels and if you are in the normal range its hard to get right balance for NBE without disrupting your body's chemistry. its rare for a women in the normal rage to experience NBE without any aches, pains disconfort, changes in the entire body.

sorry for the long post. force of habbit. i hope i gave you all the relative info to your question. yes your body will give you clues that may help you find out the prob. Have you read F2F? it really explains well what you need to get NBE. although they talk about using GABA for increasing HGH its actually IGF most responsisble for causing NBE and i read on the beboard that HGH may in fact stop fat from being deposited. so becareful with that. there are some ways you can take GABA to ensure that you get it to convert into IGF but if you are just taking GABA indiscriminatly then you are not getting alot done.

Hope this helps.



Noelle
(no login)
Re: hormonal balance
February 22 2006, 6:11 AM

Thank you so much HonB. Your answer was very informative. Gave me a few ideas and I think I will get that hormone test.



Carol Ann
(no login)
Hon is right,Noelle!!!
February 22 2006, 7:30 AM

Noelle,the most common effect of estrogen levels in your body as a teen does cause havac on your boobs. And if your herbs are working for you,and you still have concerns over cramping during your period,maybe you can try drinking 2 cups of red raspberry tea each day starting 3 or 4 days before your period and while you are on it. That way you don't disrupt your routine whatsoever. If it is working for you at present time,then I would say drink the tea. You can even add a dropperful of liquid black cohash a day to also ease the crimson curse. Just place 1 dropperful of liquid black cohash onto your tongue and swallow it down.
For the tea,if you chose to take my advice, just steep a red raspberry tea bag in hot water for 5 minutes.. You can even sweeten it with honey or raw sugar. Make sure you get the real red raspberry and not the flavored one.It can be found in any herb store near you. And it works!!! My goddaughter swears by it every month.
I was not as lucky as you when I was having periods. I didn't know anything about this stuff until way after I had my last baby...who is 15. I got heavy into it after he was born and have not turned back. When I was a teen, I would go into the herb store at the mall and ask questions and eat the healthy snacks they offer there because I have always been health conscience. So, you can best bet,herbs are great when taken in the right way. But,they are also way dangerous if abused too.
Also, I take dhea everynight to help out a little bit as well. I try and stay clear of adding too much into my body at once,but the dhea seems to help out alot. My skin and hair have never felt this soft...hehehehe. Ok,that is all. Sorry Hon,I just happened to get another email saying someon posted a message and thought I would drop off my 2 cents worth,whatever its worth to anyone.
C Ya, Carol Ann

[admin]

Why doesn't it work for all?
June 2 2005 at 1:20 PM Chatbox (no login)

How come some are successful with the herbs/pills, while others have no results at all? Is that something to do with genetics? That means, if u have big breasted mum or sis, your chances of having bigger breasts are higher than those with AA/ A cup mum or sis? Perhaps genetics influences fat storage in your body?




prettysoulful
(no login)
Re: Why doesn't it work for all?
June 2 2005, 2:50 PM

Chatbox,

I hate to say it, but anyone who even tries to answer that question would be merely guessing. There are way too many variables to say why. But what I know of genetics does say that it could have a role to play, but not in the way that you suggested necessarily. It all depends on your personal gene combination not those of you parents or siblings. My mom and baby sis are DD's, yes, but my older sis is a AA, and I'm a B. The gene pool is really quite big.

But do not dispair. If the herbs you have tried are not working it may just be the combination or the quantity that is preventing success. It really isn't a one-size-fits-all issue. If you are using a name brand product now, review the product list and the quantity of each ingredient if it is given or total quantity of the product if it is not. You probably already have heard of the top four being fenugreek, saw palmetto, fennel and wild yam, with others like chaste berry, red clover, black cohosh and more thrown in. Pick your preferred 2 products and start taking them. You may want to start with one for a couple days or week and build up to 2 until you are taking about 3000mg equivalent of each. It takes time, too. 3-4 months should show some effect. If there is no effect after 6 months, then that combo is probably not for you. So either add another herb to what you are taking or replace one of the herbs with another herb on the list.

It all takes time, and unless you run an awesome herb farm, money, but it can work. In the meantime, while you are working on it, find a great water or gel bra that adds a cup for that extra pick me up. The Victoria's Secret Very Sexy brand is pretty good and looks and feels very natural even to the person wearing it.

Also, if you are not taking a multivitamin, start. You'd be surprised how just slight deficiencies in your diet can affect your hormones, and that will have a big effect on breast development. Plus, considering the depleted state of the American food supply, its just a good idea.



Melody
(Login Melody_of_Dismay)
Re: Why doesn't it work for all?
June 8 2005, 10:08 PM

I thought I read on some of the commercial breast enlargement pills' websites that their pills will make you as big as possible according to what has been pre-determined by your genes. So maybe some people have not experienced growth with breast enlargement pills because they have already reached their "max potential." But as Prettysoulful said, I could be merely guessing. And there are so many different herbal combinations for breast enlargement.

Cya!
~Melo~



Alison
(no login)
Re: Why doesn't it work for all?
June 30 2005, 7:58 AM

As a doctor and also as someone who has studied genetics, I believe that your chances of having big breasts are indeed higher if big breasts run in your family, but there are also many other considerations. The human genome contains the characteristics used to put each person together, but it's too simplistic to say that if you're short it's because you were predetermined to be short by your genome. That argument would assume that you know that the lack of growth hormone in the body causing the shortness was due to genetics and not to another random variable that limited the body's release of growth hormone. The same argument applies to lack of breast growth. You may be small breasted because of a genetic trait, but that is only one possibility as there are many reasons why a woman may have small breasts. In puberty her hormones may not have been released in the right quantities at the right time, for which there could be many possible causes quite unrelated to genetics. Breast growth is essentially a reaction to hormonal stimulus and not generally a condition that is locked into some genetic code. Genetics is no doubt the explanation in some cases, but in reality it's not very high on the list of possibilities and it's unlikely to be a common explanation for a lack of breast growth.

[admin]

Could NBE work for hereditary small-breasted women?
September 1 2008 at 11:20 PM pattedanguille (Login pattedanguille)
Hi ladies,

I'm a newbie here, so let me introduce myself first.
I'm French (so, perdon my French haha) and I'm 26. I've never had children and I've always been very flat-chested. I'm a non-filled 85A, which I believe would be a 32A or even a 32AA in the US. Even when i gained weight, I was still a sad A cup. And when I lost this extra weight, I lost even more boobs!! How sad...! Currently, I'm 1,65 meters (I think that is 5'4") and 50,3 kilograms (about 111 lbs).

So anyway, since my Mom is flat-chested and so are all women from my Mom's family, I can say without mistaking that my "problem" is totally hereditary. Plus, my Mom also told me her breast had not grown at all when she was pregnant (5 times), but only when she wanted to breastfeed me, but then her boobs deflated again.

So here is my vital question -- do you ladies know if even hereditary small-breasted women can have results with NBE?
Any testimonials would be more than welcome.

Thank you so much!




ms.piggy
(no login)
I don't think breast size is hereditary
September 2 2008, 1:05 AM

I don't think breast size is hereditary. My mom is a C cup, my younger sister is a D cup and I am an A cup (which my sister taunts me about be flat like a boy). All of the women in my family have big breast and plenty of curves, while I am shape more like a pre-pubescent girl (by the way I'm 22) so I think a solid NBE program would help if you have the patience (its something I'm working on too).

Good Luck with your program. I hope you reach your goal!



Jojo
(no login)
Could NBE work for hereditary small-breasted women?
September 2 2008, 4:27 AM

I am ver interested in this question because I feel I am small breasted through hereditary and I was exactly the same as your mum when feeding each of my babies. I personally think it can work but I'd also love to hear from some people in our situation that have had success!



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Could NBE work for hereditary small-breasted women?
September 2 2008, 4:56 AM

Hi Pattedanquille,
NBE can work for just about anyone. After all, it works for men and they are not routinely known for their large breasts. What will be challenging for you is to find the type of routine that would work best.

Since there seems to be a genetic preference in your family for small breasts you may not respond as well to herbal NBE. Suction methods, massage, magnets may yield better results. Whatever you chose to do, you would have to be patient as it would be likely you would respond slowly.

Check out the main page and read the sections on massage, magnets and suction. There is a lot of information there so be prepared for a long read.

Remember your DNA is only the hand of cards you are dealt - your actions decide how you play the game.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Could NBE work for hereditary small-breasted women?
September 2 2008, 9:06 AM

Simplified, we could say that the most frequent cause of small breast are hormonal imbalances, and that is what NBE adresses. It could be that a hormonal imbalance in your family is hereditary and that's why you all have small breasts. So I think you have as good chances as anyone. Do a good research on the forum (newbies section, general reference page, personal programs, use search function) and start by learning about hormonal imabalnces. You must figure out which one you have and then you can devise a suitable program.



pattedanguille
(Login pattedanguille)
Re: Could NBE work for hereditary small-breasted women?
September 2 2008, 10:59 AM

Oh wow, thank you so much girls for your fast replies!
Well then there is still hope... :-D
You know, you're right, I do have a seriouls hormonal imbalance problem. From what I've read so far, I am estrogen dominant as I used to have huge stomach pains before and during my period as well as headaches. My Mom used to be the same way too, so I believe that's what her problem was. But now that I'm on a progestative-only birth pill (called Cerazette and taken without breaks), I do not suffer from this anymore, well actually I don't have my period anymore. So does this mean my birth pill is somewhat contributing to balancing my hormones?
My major problem with this pill is that my body hir grow faster and darker than before and it gives me oily and acne-prone skin...
I've read a lot of articles and forums already, but I guess I read too much because I'm a little messed up now!

Thank you so much again for your help and message of hope, you make my day.



pattedanguille
(Login pattedanguille)
Re: Could NBE work for hereditary small-breasted women?
September 2 2008, 11:21 AM

Oh and also, I used to suffer from really heavy bleeding.



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Could NBE work for hereditary small-breasted women?
September 2 2008, 7:28 PM

It's an interesting qustion then what *does* make NBE extremely difficulut for some of us, if it's not heredity. All the women in my family are at least a C cup, most a D, and I'm one of the people who doesn't grow with herbs alone.



pattedanguille
(Login pattedanguille)
Re: Could NBE work for hereditary small-breasted women?
September 2 2008, 7:37 PM

Hi Moon,

That's an interesting question too!
You would think that since all women in your family are generously fitted, you would too... or at least it be so easy for you to grow... weird.

But you're saying you don't grow with herbs alone -- does that mean you did grow with other NBE methods?



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Could NBE work for hereditary small-breasted women?
September 2 2008, 9:11 PM

I grew with a combo of herbs, massage and magnets, a little. That was my first method with magnets, recently I started with different use of magnets which looked like it would work even better and faster but right then I got a nasty reaction and had to stop. I'll be starting again in 1-2 weeks and if the reaction was nickel allergy as I assume then I should be able to continue fine with gold plated magnets.



pattedanguille
(Login pattedanguille)
Re: Could NBE work for hereditary small-breasted women?
September 2 2008, 9:47 PM

I'm learning things everyday about NBE... I had never heard of magnets!! But I'm sure going to get some more info about that!
Thank you for letting me know about your methods!

[admin]

clinical trials
October 3 2005 at 4:32 PM MissMe (no login)

anyone know if there is any data out there? or are sites like this my best bet for finding THE solution?

also, is there anyone out there who started off as a large 32b/small 32c and found herbs/cream to be successful? or is it more effective for those starting off smaller?
thanks!



Andrea
(no login)
Re: clinical trials
October 3 2005, 8:59 PM

Some companies have conducted clinical trials, although some of these have involved a limited number of women and some have not been true double blind studies. But yes some companies do have bona fide independent clinical trials, but even then it is not evidence that would meet medical standards because that would require a series of studies (you cannot establish any proposition by one study alone). It's unlikey that any company would invest the money in getting this done because it's not possible to patent a herbal formulation and therefore whoever made the investment would not be able to benefit from it. Otherwise there would be a mad rush to get the necessary studies done.

Regarding the studies that have been done, it's much more common to find them in Europe than the US, though the first ever claimed study was for Grobust in 1999. However, I don't think this was double blind or even blind. The first ever double blind study was for Wonderup, also in 1999, and others have followed. But as I said before, none of the studies conducted so far would be accepted as scientific proof. Many US companies claim studies that appear not to even exist, especially those that use promotional or comparison sites. These kind of sites are often anonymous anyway, so they would not fear anyone asking for details of their 'studies'. Things are a lot better in Europe, where they appear willing to actually conduct genuine studies and where the supposedly independent promotional sites appear not to exist.




SugarQ
(Login SugarQ)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: clinical trials
August 13 2006, 6:08 PM

its actually better if a woman has bigger breasts. the reason is that breast size is mainly fat. about 80% to be exact. so what we are all doing here is trying to store more fat in the breast. fat and estrogen levels vary directly. so the more fat you have the more estrogen you have. more estrogen means more fat. so the only problem now it to disable testosterone and reactivate the estrogen receptors (that does dorment when there is so much estrogen that the body doesnt know what to do with it) and you got fat going everywhere. so you gain weight. now most of us dont want to get bigger breast buy getting fater so we take herbs that stimulate prolactin which actually directs estrogen to store fat mainly in the breast. now it seems so simple but trust me it really hard to make NBE work the way it should.

now the smaller the breasts the harder it is to jump start the growth process. as for limitations. well the only limitation to size is how well you respond to herbs. if you managed to gain 1 or 2 cups then all you have to do, if you want more, is to maintain what you have for a decent amount of time. take a year or two break then start again.

herbs can work for pretty much any breast size. so the main thing is what hormones you have already in your body. its actually controlling those hormones that makes NBE possible not stuffing up on photestrogens and testosterone blockers.

[admin]

Herbs and Race
July 3 2006 at 9:52 PM wsdm (Login wsdm)

For some time I have been bothered by this... but I couldn’t express cause I thought I might be ridiculous.

However I believe that plant animals evolve in synergy. Take for instance I was born in the tropics my parents are from the tropics...I thrive in the summer time, I really really thrive in the summer time, my health is better, my skin, vitality etc. Under tropical conditions I am quite happy.

Foods such as papaya, yam, mangoes, pineapple, coconut are much more appealing to me than apples and pears except I love cherries ... food rich with color I love

I thrive on tropical foods.

You can take an elephant out of the southern hemisphere and place it in a zoo in New York and take a polar bear out of its natural habitat and they can thrive barely but they will do better if you recreate their environment as well as their natural eating habits. My point is animals including humans I believe evolve in synergy with their habitat.

I wonder if herbs from Europe or the northern hemisphere would agree with me or be the best for my system....

Any thoughts welcome




Alison
(Login Alison.)
Re: Herbs and Race
July 4 2006, 3:52 PM

I don't think the question is a ridiculous one. I think it's a fair question to ask. But I can't see any evidence for it. In the US for example they use herbs like Saw Palmetto and Wild Yam a lot, which are native to the Americas, but now they are used a lot in Europe too do they work any differently on Europeans? I would say no, as far as I can see the effects are just the same.



fawn
(no login)
not silly at all...
July 4 2006, 8:18 PM

That's one of the reasons that I've never bothered to study chinese medicine.

I'm of european and native american heritage, and I study and use herbs found in the americas and in europe by preference.

fawn




Jacqui
(Login Jacka-b)
EVE MEMBERS
I don't think so
July 5 2006, 4:16 PM

Well we all use paracetamol for headaches and it works regardless, and that comes from willowbark,if I'm not mistaken.
Most or all medicines are derived from natural ingredients and plants, and I'm talking about prescribed medicines here as well as homeopathic and they are universal. Your argument did cross my mind, but for thousands of years people have travelled,traded and adjusted to this planet on the whole. And take into acount that humans in general have adapted through various climatic conditions, people who are now living in hot, tropical conditions, may have had ancestors who lived through icy conditions.How herbs and food effect our bodies differently has little to do with race. Some people believe in Ayurvedic principles, when trying to define what's good for one and what's not etc. Humans are so complicated.

[admin]

Breast tissue memory??
July 20 2006 at 2:19 PM
coffeegirl (Login coffeegirl77)
I read someone say that it seems that women who have had children have the best sucess rate at NBE, and I was just wanting to clarify that... did I read correctly? Is it sort of like muscle memory when you work out again after a time? Does the breast tissue have a memory about what size it was at one time and tries to get back to that size when it's helped along? Or is it about the hormones that used to be there? Sorry if this is a topic that has been covered before. =) I have two children ages 3 and 16 months, so I am hoping that my breasts will remember that fabulous C-cup I used to have!




SugarQ
(Login SugarQ)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Breast tissue memory??
July 20 2006, 4:11 PM

what is really ment is that women who have been pregnant and breast fed tend to have better success. one reason is because the body is producing so much hormones and the fact that your body was able to reach those highs is a good sign and it makes it easier for the body to reach them again during NBE. you also have the fully developed breast tissue structure that virgin breasts dont have. so you got all the estrogenic receptors and prolactin receptors (alot more then a virgin breast) so you will obviously respond faster with more receptors. your breast skin tissue is alot more stretchier (you might want to use a strech mark reducer during NBE) so your breasts will quickly make more room for new tissue growth and fat deposit. a woman have the highest hormonal changes in her life during pregancy so if you are capable of reaching those highs then your body might "remember" and with the help of some stimulation it will work to get you back up there with NBE.




Coffeegirl77
(Login coffeegirl77)
Thanks!!
July 20 2006, 7:53 PM

Ok, thanks! That's pretty much what I was assuming (and hoping) was the case. I did nurse both my kids and had a C-cup for about 3 1/2 years during all the pregnancies and nursing, so that gives me great hope of returning to that size again-- as soon as I figure out the right doseages and combinations for my body. I am determined to get this right.



Angela
(Login AngelaHulagirl)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Breast tissue memory??
July 20 2006, 8:47 PM

I was a full B when pregnant and nursing and have just about gotten there with BE so does that mean that i'm almost to my max?

Angela




SugarQ
(Login SugarQ)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hi Angela
July 20 2006, 11:09 PM

Every woman has a breast size max that their body shape and size and accomidate easily. beyond that cup size women will find that their routine that was originally give them success wont work anymore even though they take the 2week to 1 month breasts. that aint gonna cut it anymore.

its like with weight loss. you find in the beginning that the first few founds melt off easily then all of a sudden you reach a point where your normal diet and exercise routine is only marking time ( maintain your present size). when you reach a plateau you may just need to relax and stick with maintainance for a while then try again to loose more weight.

for NBE maintainance tells us if your growth is perminant so you need to take 6 months to 1 year off NBE. if at the end of that you managed to maintain the same cupsize then you can try herbs again and its likely a new routine will allow you to start growing again.


there really is no maximum breast size for each woman. there is just a new plateau that gets harder to get over. sometimes it might be your body size that might prevent you from growing. our bodies like to maintain a natural look and not defy gravity or any other natural laws. so some women may actually have to gain a little weight to make up the body type to support a D or DD. so you need to keep that in mind as you continue with NBE. most women dont want to gain weight or spend 3 years with NBE but your body will only work with what its got. after that you need to stablize and make sure the results are relativly perminant then try again.



Angela
(Login AngelaHulagirl)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Breast tissue memory??
July 21 2006, 2:28 AM

Thanks SugarQ! I definitely dont' want to gain any more weight. I have gained 20 pounds in the last 10 years and can't seem to lose it. I weigh right now and have since before starting BE 153-156 lbs. Let me measure real quick, My measurements are: bust 37, waist 29, hips 40. I cant believe my butt and hips are so big! No wonder why my boobs still seem small to me. lol My hips used to be 38, so I guess I have gained while doing BE, not weight but jsut inches. Noone ever thinks I weigh this much and when I was a size 0 and weighed 125 noone thought I was so heavy then either.
I was only going to take a 2 month break and then get back on the train. I'm getting anxious to start back on but I'll wait. I have lost some of the fluff but not any in the measurement, still 8 and 7 1/2. I am jsut reading as I did in the beginning and taking notes so I can maybe get to the C mark this time around. I'm 36 so I know that it may take me longer thatn some of the younger girls. Someone had said it could take 4 years so I only have 3 more to go. lol

Thanks for your help!

Angela

[admin]

Breasts; Improving Their Size, Shape and Health!
January 7 2006 at 5:07 AM Luda (Login Devchenka)
Hi everyone,
I was reading so many topics here just getting more and more information.
Seens im stay at home mom and dont have money on the side to spend, it's hard to find the right herb that would work for me.
For a while i was on Fengegreek, Saw Palmento and Wild Yam. I was on it for over 2 months and didnt see any results.
First of all let me tell you im 21 and had a baby 11 months ago, i was 36C and now im berely 34C it's sad. My boobs are flat after breast feeding and i am not even that old. I hate looking at myself especially thinking that coming summer i wouldnt be able to wear bathing suit because my boobs are not firm.
I dont like all the push ups bras because i never wore them and it's not comfortable especially summer time.

I was reading this website:
http://www.totalityofbeing.com/ArchivedBreastShape.html

I want to believe this, this guy talks about what main herbs you should use

Natural progesterone cream.
Pharmaceutical grade Maca

Keep your progesterone levels high.
Take 800 IU's of Vitamin E and 50 mg. of Zinc daily and most important of all;
Take 3 to 5 tablets of a good systemic enzyme 3 times a day.

I was doing some resourches and this stuff comes up pretty costy also, of course i can't compare myself to everyone else, because everyone's body is different but i was wondering if anyone was curious about this website?




Stephanie
(Login Steph73)
To luda
January 7 2006, 4:24 PM

I'm sure I've seen this site before sometime, but wasn't sure what to make of it. For anyone who wants to know how NBE works it's worth a read.



Bradley
(Login bradley2668)
Re: To luda
January 7 2006, 6:21 PM

i read this article about a year about. its a good article but the information is a bit contraverial.




SugarQ
(no login)
Re: To luda
January 7 2006, 6:26 PM

the doc said that progesterone is most responsible for nbe and its the reason fat is stored in the breast. well,i cant find a source that would back up this claim. estrogen is known as the fat machine. elevated levels of estrogen in men can cause weight gain and breast enlargement. also fat women tend to have elevated levels of estrogen. the problem with trying to control estrogen to cause breast enlargement is that estrogen will cause fat to settle in other areas in the body as well as the breast. progesterone may help keep estrogen levels in check. when estrogen levels are too high the estrogen receptors tend to become less sensitive to estrogen to try to balance things off a bit. progesterone will come help to bring back up the estrogen receptors' sensitivity. in doing so breasts can swell a bit. but progesterone may also reduce the elevated estrogen levels as well so the swelling will eventually go away. but im not too sure about storing fat in the breast. the doctor's reasoning for this seems a bit off to me.

progesterone can cause breast enlargement but not for everyone. and breast elargement with progesterone cream seems to be rare. mominator, on the beboard, has b/a pictures that show a big difference after a year of using progesterone cream. its been known to ehance breast tissue. so if you have saggy breasts or you want to recover your original breast size them it may help a bit. you can try pueraria mirifica cream or progesterone. they both seem to work great.ask this question on the beboard. the members can help you out with this question. the problem that may come up with the article is where do you apply the cream. this is a very contraversial question. some say apply it to the breast for NBE. while other doing that can cause shrinkage and in any case there the cream wont get absorbed as well on the breast as it would in other areas where the skin is thiner. i dont know which i believe. also dosage may be a problem that may pop up as well. the cream comes is dosages of 40mg/0z-1500mg/oz and its recommeded to take anywhere from 1/8 tbs to 1/2tbs 2x a day. so make sure you pick a good quality cream (key your eyes on the ingredients) and follow the directions exactly.

maca is a weird herb when it comes to nbe. other women have tried it but i dont think it worked. its recommended for overall good breast health but as far as shaping the breast, i really dont know. i googled maca a while back and i couldnt find anything that would link it to NBE and no forum could give advice about it.





Anonymous
(no login)
Re: To luda
January 13 2006, 6:34 PM

Thanks a lot for your information, to tell the truth, im kinda giving up my hope on everything, i dont know what to do.
I really miss my boobs, but there is not much i can do about it, i'll do more resourches on stuff and decide what im going to do.

[admin]

Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 25 2008 at 12:44 AM Berengere (Login Berengere)

I came across this great article a while back and always come back to it when I need motivation. At the end of the article he says he knew a woman who went from a 34B to a 36 C in three months of exercising her chest after making love. Enjoy!

Here is the link:

http://www.totalityofbeing.com/ArchivedBreastShape.htm




Hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 26 2008, 6:17 AM

I read this article yesterday and *ahem* tried out the suggestions today hehe... felt good, we'll see if it works

good luck, thanks for the info!



Berengere
(Login Berengere)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 26 2008, 11:54 PM

thanks you too!

Ya I find his suggestions to certainly be the most pleasurable and fun of nbe protocols. lol



Jen
(Login blitz1228)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 27 2008, 1:22 AM

Hey that link isn't working for me. Would love to have a read.



Berengere
(Login Berengere)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 27 2008, 1:55 AM

Jen,

Go to the website totalityofbeing.com and look into the archived articles. You will find it there. Also did you try copy and paste? Let me know how it goes.




Pearl
(Login PrincessPearl)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 27 2008, 3:13 AM



Try copying and pasting this, it worked for me putting that part into my browser.

totalityofbeing.com/ArchivedBreastShape



madboobie
(no login)
what do you think about...
January 27 2008, 5:49 PM

....what he says about increased progesterone being the key to bigger boobs? He seems rather down on oestrogen,

'....decreased fertility and libido, increased body fat from the hips down, and increase in various kinds of fibrosis are all things that can be looked forward to from extra estrogen.'

If I'm reading this right are we all going down the wrong route in trying to boost our oestrogen levels with herbs? Or are the two things compatible in a way I'm missing?!

Or is it simply a case of 'balancing' hormones with herbs rather than upping one's oestrogen levels?

Help.. I'm confused! Should I just chuck away the WU, slap on the wild yam cream and *ahem* like mad?!



littlesaggyboobs
(no login)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 27 2008, 8:40 PM

Well I too want bigger boobs. I would be willing to try anything...what works for some doesn't work for others so I could only hope that if I was to try this it would grow some boobs!



Woolly Sheep
(Login Berengere)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 27 2008, 9:49 PM

To me what he is basically saying is that estrogen is mostly responsible for weight gain from the waist down(that doesnt mean that it doesnt makes some contribution to breast development, it's just not the primary hormone).

The major hormone involved in developing breasts is progesterone. He states that when you are estrogen dominant(which according to him most people are because of all the phytoestrogens found in our enviroment and the foods we eat)we tend to store our fat from the waist down, and by balancing our hormones with progesterone cream, the breasts will start to fill out and you will also be healthier.

If you read some of his other articles, you will see he talks a lot about the negative affects of too much estrogen in our bodies, and how using progesterone can balance the body and heal various conditions such as chronic fatigue, post partum depression, and fibromyalgia.

One thing that really caught my eye about breast growth was when he said if estrogen had anything to do with big breasts, woman on birth control pills would all have them.

Everyone is so different and there are many people who seem to have success with nbe utilizing foods and herb that increase estrogen, but I think his suggestions are really worth a try. We can theorize all we want, but the only thing that matters is if it gives results.




Cecilia
(Login CeciliaSpasm)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 27 2008, 11:27 PM

That's a really interesting article. thanks for posting. It's so confusing isn't it? I've grown a little gradually since being on the pill - but remember most pills contain progesterone as well as oestrogen - so maybe it's that and not oestrogen making them grow???

On another wired note - my lover (it's in the early stages) "ahem'd" on my chest and gave it alot of attention the last time we were together and the following day when I woke up I measured bigger (and still do). The only reason I asked him to do this was because I read another thread on here about the need for yin and yang in breast growth). Or maybe they seem bigger to me beacuse the last guy i was with wouldn't even look at them, so maybe it just boosted my confidence???I don't know - it's confusing - but i'll try anything to make em grow. I lost almost an inch of growth in 5 days on fenugreek, so think progesterone cream might be worth a try???




Hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 28 2008, 12:18 AM

Yes it is all very confusing... how could just NBE things have worked for so many people then? maybe once I'm all done with herbal stuff and see that they haven't worked I'll go an finally buy the cream and try that... this won't be for a while... but if that doesn't work than I'll officially end my NBE journey...



Berengere
(Login Berengere)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 28 2008, 4:32 AM

I think balancing your hormones with progesterone for breast growth seems very promising and worth a try for any woman looking to increase in size. Another thing that's great about the progesterone is that apparently if you use it for an extended period of time, it can permanently balance your hormones. Permanent balance = permanent growth. Think of it as a way of flushing the excess estrogen out and replacing it with progesterone. Then as long as you don't keep adding in more estrogen through your food and enviroment, it will stay that way. Definitely worth a try!

Btw, it was me, Bere, who wrote the article that it says Woolly Sheep wrote. For some reason because I wasn't logged in when I posted it a name was randomly picked for me. lol.

Good luck to everyone!



Woolly Sheep
(no login)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 28 2008, 5:00 AM

Can you mixed progesterone and herbs??? or is it just one or the other??



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 28 2008, 12:12 PM

Ladies please be careful with the progesterone cream. Its not something you want to just add into your routine because of an article. Make sure you really do need it because of either estrogen dominance, or low amounts of progesterone. For some of the newer ladies, read back through some of the older posts on Vitex (search) and also some of the articles written about progesterone cream and those of others asking questions about it. Its really not something you should just play around with, in the hopes of it growing boobs.

There is also a good book about it written by John Lee, at least read that from your local library before continueing................

Edited: Because I obviously can't type and think at the same time, I only get about half of what I think out, which comes out confusing and jumbled. Sorry ladies *sheepish grin*



This message has been edited by henriettahippo on Jan 28, 2008 8:11 PM





Hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 28 2008, 5:30 PM

"It might for some like Waxingmoon, but not for others, like me, however we both needed the progetserone in our systems."

So if you needed but the cream wasn't for you, what did you do in order to fix this issue Henri? Just curious



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 28 2008, 8:10 PM

HaHa, I guess I should review my messages before I post them huh.

What I meant to say, which obviously didn't come out correctly (or at all) was that Progesterone Cream gave Waxingmoon some growth, but I haven't received any from it all, we both needed it, but don't quite have the same results. So progesterone cream might not be the answer for growing boobs, but some people might actually need to use it to balance other problems, and in balancing things out they can gain boobs or they might not gain boobs. Does this clarify things??

To answer your other question ;-)

I use progesterone cream because my dr. thinks it will help improve some of the problems that keep re-occuring with me due to high estrogen, but I didn't start using it for boobs, and also am not on any program atm.

I just don't want everyone running out to try it, and not need it to begin with.

I have edited my post so that way it hopefully makes more sense - thanks for pointing out my error!



This message has been edited by henriettahippo on Jan 28, 2008 8:19 PM




madboobie
(Login madboobie)
SENIOR MEMBER
and another thing...
January 28 2008, 8:49 PM

Just thought I'd throw this into the debate to see what you girls think.

A friend of mine breast fed her first child, and ended up a 32A cup which looked tiny on her. She then fell pregnant again, breast fed her second, and went on the mini pill (progesterone only.) She ended up, and still is, 32DD. her seconc child is now 5 years old.

There might be no correlation between the boob size and the POP but its food for thought, don't you agree?



Woolly Sheep
(Login Berengere)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 28 2008, 9:18 PM

"Ladies please be careful with the progesterone cream. Its not something you want to just add into your routine because of an article. Make sure you really do need it because of either estrogen dominance, or low amounts of progesterone."

What is the difference between adding progesterone cream because of an article, and taking estrogenic herbs because you heard they could help you grow bigger boobs?

In my opinion, progesterone cream is far safer and more beneficial then most of the herbs touted as a way to increase breast size.

I see no reason why progesterone cream may be unsafe for anyone, unless you take it at the wrong times in excessive quantities, or use an unhealthy brand.

The man who wrote the article, Dr. Wong, uses progesterone cream for all types of problems with great success and no side effects. Because of the excessive estrogens we receive through our food intake and enviroment, in Dr. Wong's opinion, just about everyone could benefit from the use of progesterone cream.

If a man who works with thousands of people prescribing natural progesterone could make such a bold statement as that, I feel pretty confidant that it's at least safe to try for anyone who feels they may need it.

We each have our difference sources that we come to trust and because your doctor was the one who prescribed the progesterone cream for you, I would assume it was her/him that told you that you need to be careful with it? If so, this doesn't surprise me, as doctors are never allowed to make suggestions to take a supplement, especially a hormonal supplement, unless they feel it is absolutely 100% necessary for your symptoms or medical condition. Any doctor would tell a woman who has not had clinical tests showing she is estrogen dominant to not use progesterone. It's just the way the medical system works.

However, I'm all about finding my own way

In conclusion, in the article Dr. Wong does not say it is just using progesterone cream that will fill your breasts out, there are other important suggestions as well to get the full benefit



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 28 2008, 10:01 PM

Berengere - obviously I cannot stop you from trying anything, you seem to have already made up your mind on what you are going to do. It seems odd to me though that you are so willingly going to trust a "dr" on the web based off an article he wrote and the fact that he has "worked" with thousands of people.

I however think the article gives false hope, in making one believe that the answer is progesterone cream. Yes it has some great benefits, but if you really don't need it, it might not be that beneficial.

Please do a forum search as this isn't the first article mentioning that progesterone may be the key. I would suggest using the "match" instead of "date" search, and searching both progesterone and Dr. Wong, as this isn't the first time this article has been brought up - so its not something newly discovered.

You ladies can do whatever you want, just be well informed when you do it, and not just informed off one article. There is also some information in the general reference area or newbie section I can't remember, but it deals with pc.




Woolly Sheep
(Login Berengere)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 28 2008, 10:16 PM

Henri-

Yes, we all have to find our own ways. What works for one person will not always work for another and there are no gurantees.

I never really 'trust' anyone per se, especially medical professionals. I simply take the theories and suggestions and try them out for myself. If they work, great, if they dont, then off to find something else that will.

I like to say that theories are theories, but it's the results that really matter. However the fact that someone didn't get results from something, doesnt mean they are entirely useless.

I think the article has some great insights, and I also do not think that he is saying that progesterone cream is the answer to everything. For instance, the woman he mentioned who went from a 34B to a 36C did not even use the progesterone Although I think it is an important part of his whole program.

Yes, thank you. I searched the entire site for anything I could find on progesterone cream before I posted this article. And I thought waxingmoon's results looked very encouraging for woman with hormonal imbalances. Though I believe she used massage as well?? Not sure. And yes, always use match when doing searches, or you might find yourself very confused

I wish you the best of luck.

Feeling the growing pains gals. Especially on the right side. Very exciting!




littlesaggy boobs
(no login)
very interesting article
January 29 2008, 4:52 AM

Well I found the article very interesting...so much that I e-mailed Dr. Wong and asked some questions. My problem is 3 months ago I stopped nursing, but can still squeeze milk from my nipples, so I am waiting to try something to GROW SOME BOOBS! Dr. Wong said this shows a high level of prolactin which indicates a high estrogen level. Although my husband has had surgery to stop the baby factory and I don't need the pill, I would be interested in the mini pill.



wantbebig
(no login)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 29 2008, 5:07 AM

As for me, I just want to know if it is harmful or not. I do not mind if it is not beneficial. Can someone help?



Bere
(Login Berengere)
Re: Article on improving the size, shape, and health of breasts
January 29 2008, 8:32 PM

No it is not harmful. It is no different than taking herbs that increase estrogen. Just make sure you use a natural brand, and only use the recommended amount at the recommended times.

[admin]

Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007 at 2:49 PM ellie (Login ellie213)

after years of trying every method on here, phytoestrogens, vitex, pueraria murifica etc. and after extensive research i have discovered the following:

there are some very useful pages on this which i found which if anyone is interested i can post i just need to find them again..

1.any phytoestrogens ie. fenugreek, pueraria murifica etc. will not work as all they do is if you have low oestrogen levels enhance them and increased oestrogen causes mainly fat storage on the lower body with sometimes temporary fluid retention on boobs which stops as soon as you stop taking them

if you already have high oestrogen levels they will actually make your boobs shrink as they block the oestrogen receptors

a final point on these is that if they do increase your oestrogen levels you are increasing your risk of breast cancer, not really worth a few months of temporary fluid retention and weight gain all over is it?

not to mention increased oestrogen levels is what gives you all the other side effects like headaches weight gain etc.

2. a lot of the products people use on here are not actually phytoestrogens and have no effect on growth, such as saw palmetto and wild yam

3. some people take wild yam but this is not a phytoestrogen and will not affect oestrogen, also some people take it thinking it will convert to progesterone in the body which it wont, this is a waste of time as is using the cream

4. pm is a complete waste of time and also potentially very dangerous as it is a strong phytoestrogen and if it does increase boobs only does so by causing so much weight gain all over (which it did to me). most of the websites you will see are all propoganda but if you research properly you will see it doesnt work for anyone unless they gain weight all over, so your boobs would naturally get bigger as they are partly composed of fat tissue.

it is dangerous as playing around with your hormone levels enough to cause weight gain has been proven to be a risk factor of breast cancer

5. the only thing which does work is vitex (as this has the effect of lowering oestrogen and bringing up your progesterone levels). this takes a few months to work but you will notice reduced weight on lower body and slight boob growth. but not much.

progesterone is the key as unlike oestrogen which only causes fluid retention and fat gain progesterone causes growth of glandular tissue which is more permanent (this is why our progesterone levels surge when we are pregnant as we need more glandular tissue for breast feeding, hence why our boobs get so much bigger when we are pregnant).

pregnancy is the best evidence of this, notice our oestrogen levels do not really change, hence progesterone is the key.

progesterone is also non toxic unlike adding oestrogen to our bodies and will only cause positive side effects as long as you follow the recommended dosage and do not overdose.

so to conclude in addition to vitex if you want to further enhance growth try using a natural progesterone cream following the exact instructions.

apart from that everything else is a waste of time.

i hope this is helpful to some people.




hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 5:31 PM

I don't quite think its fair to make such assumptions and suggest that these herbs are a "waste of time" when it has clearly worked for some people (in fact quite alot of girls on the board). For instance, Eve never took vitex and she grew beautifully...

However, I do find the information you posted to be interesting. Good luck



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 6:02 PM

Uh, some of these claims are really wrong and actually the opposite of what you can read on this forum. Firstly SP does have a lot to do with growth as it blocks androgens. Secondly, you have no way of knowing whether or not phytoestrogens increase the risk of cancer, cause the researches show inconclusive and even contradicting resuls, and the theory actually speaks in favor of them protecting. Seriously, you're making claims based only on your personal assumptions. And huh, vitex has worked for NBE in relatively small percent of cases. Moreover, it's inaccurate to speak about what 'works' in the fist place, cause it's well known that everyone is different and completely specific in what works for them.



This message has been edited by -Moon- on Dec 6, 2007 6:03 PM





hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 6:12 PM

That is so true Moon... I think your post would have been much more accepted ellie if you had stated that this is your personal experience with the herbs and NBE methods instead of making it appear as though these are certain facts for everyone to follow. good luck



No Name Sheep
(Login litldroopyboobs)
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 6:52 PM

Well I am new to this researching game here. I am an intelligent resouceful person but it is so easy to be fooled and have false hope. We are all trying to get bigger boobs here!!! I aplaud all the women and their determination and dedication thus far! The only thing I can add which I got from a lisenced lactation consultant whom I went to for boobie advice was that adding estrogen to your body may be harmful as it can increase your chances of cancer...and the long term effect of herbal use (although they may be natural) isn't known. I am not trying to rain on anyones parade as I too am looking for the magic potion to increase my boobs, bring them back and lift them up!!!!




Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 9:03 PM

A word on the supposed cancer risk. The higher the average intake of phytoestogens in a country the lower the incidence of breast cancer. Japan has the very highest intake of phytoestrogens and the lowest rate of breast cancer in the world. Western countries with very little phytoestrogens in their diet actually have the highest rate of breast cancer. On this basis it is argued that increasing your intake of phytoestrogens will SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE your risk of breast cancer.



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 9:53 PM

Most phytoestrogens are not as potent as our own hormonal estrogen. There are other estrogens out there coming from pesticides, solvents and plastics that ARE more potent than our own hormonal estrogen.

The cancer risk with estrogen has always been linked to unopposed estrogen (in the case of birth control pills) and the total lifetime exposure to estrogens that are as potent or more potent than our own hormonal estrogen.

Phytoestrogens are thought to block estrogen receptors from more potent estrogen - but you do have to choose the lower potency ones. For example Flax seed is a very low dose phytoestrogen (called a lignan) and it will lower a woman's total estrogen - thus it can be very helpful in reducing cancer risk and helping to control estrogen dominance.

Red Clover and Licorice are more potent than hormonal estrogen, so a woman taking these in large amounts would possibly be increasing her total estrogen.

The whole issue of phytoestrogens is very complex. In my thread "My Search for a Low Dose Phytoestrogen" I shared some of my findings and others have contributed some useful information there as well.

waxingmoon



No Name Sheep
(Login ellie213)
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 10:21 PM

the stuff i wrote is what i have discovered from research ie. medical research, and is not based on my personal opinion. i have only put the information up to try and help people and stop people wasting their time and money. but i have tried all of the above methods so i can see from my own experiences that what i am saying is on the whole right.

i am not saying some people dont grow with phytoestrogens, i did myself, but this went as soon as i stopped taking them, as it was only fluid. the pm caused me to gain weight so of course they are going to grow but this is just fat which goes as soon as you lose the weight again. and i know from reading this forum that i am not the only person this has happened to.

as far as the cancer thing goes i am only repeating what i have discovered from my reading, that any breast growth which is a result of extra hormones in your body causes an increased risk of breast cancer. phytoestrogens are beneficial overall for health but if you are taking high enough doses to cause your boobs to grow then this is where there is a risk.

at the end of the day even though everyones body is different, the fact is oestrogen promotes fat storage and fluid retention, this is a function of this hormone no matter who you are so there is no point saying everyones body is different, oestrogen still works the same way. the same goes for progesterone.



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Important information for everyone using this forum
December 6 2007, 10:37 PM

None of these things come close to the amount of hormones you get from the pill or HRT so the cancer risk is minute. They also won't cause a new tumour to arise but will only feed an existing tumour that you are unaware of. I think herbs will either work well (probably a minority of cases), work slightly (fairly common) or do nothing (also common). There are people who have gained boobs without overall weight gain and who have stopped herbs for months - years and retained growth so it is possible. There are other people who've had weight gain, bloating, acne etc and 1 girl who took herbs for 'health' when she already had big boobs and they shrank because she'd drastically lowered her estrogen but I don't think many of us are in that position.

Fair enough report that you've had no results but you can't say it's impossible for everyone.