What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 11 2007 at 10:13 PM Lillea (Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
So far, I have only massaged once a day at night. At some point I might wish to add a massage in the daytime. The problem is the smell and messiness. I have read about using peppermint essential oil to cover up the smell of fenugreek, but it still seems a bit much to be smelling so strongly when I'm out and about. And it's so sticky. I don't want to ruin my clothes and bra.
Some people massage with something like fennel during the day, fenugreek at night.
Any suggestions for me? I am currently only taking saw palmetto as an internal. I feel best targeting my breasts alone with phytoestrogenic things, not my whole body (to keep fat from depositing on hips, etc).
So apart from saw palmetto I'm trying to absorb all my herbs through the skin.
Lillea
emmie
(Login emmiedee)
one of the combo creams?
February 12 2007, 5:36 PM
maybe you could try one of the formulated creams, like wonder up, or just cocoa butter? i use cocoa butter and dont have a problem... going to switch to a pm cream (whenever it arrives... slow!).
but these creams are designed to absorb... so save your messies for at night, and go with something quick and easy in the morning??
Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 12 2007, 5:55 PM
I would invest in a PM cream if I were you. If the only thing you take orally is saw palmetto, you could definitely benefit from using PM in cream form. I don't think Cocoa Butter and saw palmetto would result in much growth.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 12 2007, 10:12 PM
Thank you for the suggestions!
Fennel Fairy, can you list all of the ingredients in the PM cream you use? I'm not sure if I can find it online. The purer the better.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:35 AM
Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 12 2007, 10:40 PM
I use the PM cream from Pueraria UK and it's all PM, no other herbs. It is very good too!
lil dunny
(Login lil_dunny)
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 12 2007, 10:44 PM
grin and bear it
i make a batter using Now's cocoa butter lotion as a base, with added fennel and wild yam tinctures. it does smell, though not nearly as much as fenugreek would. when i have to go out in public shortly afterwards i just apply less (and wait till it's mostly absorbed before putting on clothes)
my *sweat*, on the other hand, started smelling like fenugreek!! i'm, like, exuding the stuff out of my pores - i sure hope it's not unhealthy for the SO - he must be getting quite a secondary exposure!!
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 12 2007, 10:47 PM
Hi Fennel Fairy,
What is the base for the product? The base the herbs are in? I wish to avoid certain things.
Yeah, maybe I'll try to accept that I'll smell like maple syrup/curry if I don't go the PM route.
Lillea
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:36 AM
sarah
(no login)
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 12 2007, 11:54 PM
Sorry about my ignorance. What is PM cream and where do I buy it? Thanks.
Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER
Ingredients
February 13 2007, 6:25 AM
I think you might have to contact Pueraria UK for further info about the cream base. On the website it only says Ingredients: Pueraria Mirifica and Pueraria herbal extracts - 50 ml.
The website:
http://pueraria.co.uk/
You can email them at:
info@pueraria.co.uk
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 13 2007, 7:19 AM
Thank you Fennel Fairy! I wrote to them and hopefully will hear from them soon.
Lillea
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:36 AM
Surf
(Login Surf.)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 13 2007, 3:07 PM
Ok, I have had the kids in school, where I volunteer, say to me that I smell like pancakes one too many times. I've also had 1 too many people at the gym ask me if I ate waffels this morning... I decided to take action!!! When at my local health foods store, while I was buying some more pure cocoa butter, I bought some 100% pure Geranium Oil. I found it with many other scents in the aromatherapeutic section of the store. I use just the SMALLEST amount and it seems to be working -
I had read about geranium oil to cover the NBE scents a long time ago on this forum. Just thought I would pass it on!
Gigando growing boobie blessings to all!
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 13 2007, 8:19 PM
Geranium oil sounds interesting!
A rep from PM UK wrote back to me about the ingredients in the breast cream:
INGREDIENTS: Purified water, vegetable glycerin, glyceryl stearate, sweet almond oil,s tearic acid
(from palm), emulsifying wax, jojoba oil, pueraria mirifica extract, tocopheryl acetate ( vitamin E), green tea extract (anti-oxidant), Herbigerm (preservative)
Will this really penetrate breast tissue?
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:36 AM
Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER
Contents of cream
February 14 2007, 7:04 AM
When you apply a cream, all that needs to penetrate is the active substance. It's the same when you apply a steroid cream. The sticky cream doesn't all penetrate but the cortisone does.
In this case, the cream base is a good one. I worked in a beauty parlour with cosmetics and skin care for many many years and can tell you that these ingredients are good.
If every cream and perfumed bodylotion we used penetrated the skin totally, we'd be very ill I think. Certain substances penetrate and some don't. Hormones and hormone like substances DO penetrate even if the "carrier cream" doesn't.
My experience with this particular cream though, is that there is no sticky residue left on the skin and it doesn't take long at all until the cream is absorbed. Noo need to worry about stickiness afterwards, or strong smells. it is very discrete scentwise.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 14 2007, 8:43 AM
This is great to know, Fennel Fairy! I have often wondered about how substances penetrate skin.
What do you know about aloe vera gel as a carrier? On another board, that is recommended as a carrier for massage ingredients. Currently I massage with organic aloe gel and fenugreek extract.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:36 AM
Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 14 2007, 9:23 AM
I'd say that aloe vera gel is a good base for a massage product too.
What we must understand is, that a creame is not supposed to totally penetrate all skin layers. At most, it will penetrate the very top layer. Active substances added to a cream however, are able to penetrate deeper and things like hormones can do this. A lot of it has to do with molecule size or the structure of the particle.
I know a lot of people complain about creams based on mineral oil because it doesn't penetrate... Well it's good that it doesn't. Our body wouldn't benefit from petroleum oil running around in our bloodstream. Whatever people massage with, olive oil, cocoa butter etc, it DOESN'T penetrate all skin layers and add "fat" to the breast tissue or something that is biologically impossible.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 14 2007, 12:16 PM
Thank you again, Fennel Fairy. I'm really grateful that you know so much about this kind of thing.
On the BE board, some women rub in 2 drops of 99.9% DMSO
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?c=Herbs&pid=DMS-31126
after their massage, but only when using an oil-and-herb mix for massage. It makes you smell like garlic/sulphur, apparently, but it seems to really penetrate deeply. Using DMSO seems a bit scary to me, but I did buy some recently to try sometime, maybe. It's thought that a mixture of aloe vera gel and herbal extracts with heat applied afterward is almost as effective as using an oil and herbs massage mixture and DMSO, so I have opted for this for now.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:37 AM
Lydia
(Login Lydia1981)
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 15 2007, 8:00 AM
Hi Fennelfairy,
You said that it's impossible that a cream penetrates into the skin and adds fat, at most it penetrates only the top layer!. that would mean that i have been massaging with cocoa butter and applying heat for almost a year, for nothing
(
Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 15 2007, 8:29 AM
The actual FAT doesn't penetrate all skin layers, that is correct. The molecules are too big. But there may be OTHER things in the cocoa butter than the actual fat, that is beneficial to breast growth? And the massage itself is probably good for the tissue and development.
I think that when people experience "plumpness" after massage with pure fat, it is because the fat blocks up the pores so much that water cannot evaporate through the pores as is normally the case.
Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 15 2007, 9:46 AM
The things that DO penetrate from the fats are the fatty acids, amongst other things.
Skin is made up of layers. Those are the epidermis, dermis, and the subcutaneous tissue. The outermost layer, the epidermis, protects against substances that could penetrate and affect the inner layer, the dermis. The epidermis itself consists of five layers. The uppermost layer, the horny layer or stratum corneum, forms a permeability barrier. It stops substances intended to smooth your skin from penetrating to the layers beneath.
The gaps between the dead skin cells on the surface of the epidermis are filled with a lipid (fat) matrix that has to be penetrated. The gaps in the matrix are only 100 nanometres wide. This limits what can get through skin.
For those who like to use fat and oil in combination with herbs would probably do really well with the type of oils that have as small molecules as possible if they want the herbal substance to be transported deeply into the skin and pass the lipid barrier.
As mentioned before in this thread, mineral oil doesn't penetrate and therefore doesn't work as a carrier.
Jojoba oil on the other hand penetrates very easily, it is often used as a "carrier molecule" in cosmetic products. Not only will jojoba oil penetrate quickly, it will carry other molecules that normally would sit on the surface.
Soy Bean Oil has a small molecular structure and is thought to act more as a hormone-like cellular messenger once it reaches the epidermal keratinocytes and the dermal fibroblast. It is said to stimulate the synthesis of collagen and elastin too. Soy Bean Oil has a high content of phosphatides such as lecithin and Vitamins A, E, and K.
Essential oils all have a tiny molecular size and penetrate deeply into the skin.
Other good oils are almond oil and avocado oil. If one was to make up the ideal carrier cream for herbs it should be some sort of combination of those above I think. Personally, I believe that the soy bean oil would be good for NBE purposes.
Anonymous
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER
To Lydia:
February 15 2007, 12:28 PM
Quote Lydia:
You said that it's impossible that a cream penetrates into the skin and adds fat, at most it penetrates only the top layer!. that would mean that i have been massaging with cocoa butter and applying heat for almost a year, for nothing
(
End of Quote.
It's not all done for nothing.
Cocoa butter provides a barrier that helps preserve the moisture and provides a protective layer that seals in natural moisture, which makes it an emollient. Cocoa butter also helps with the growth of collagen which is a very good thing. Molecules are BIG though.
Since we still need to do the massage, why not cocoa butter as a "sealing coat" on top of our herbal tinctures or whatever herbal ingredients we want to penetrate. I often use a fat or oil on top to keep the other stuff from evaporating out again together with natural perspiration and such.
snowdrops
(Login snowdropsfalling)
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 15 2007, 1:17 PM
I agree with fennel fairy saying to seal it in with oils. I don't smell like anything at all. I usually top of my herbal mix with cocoa butter such as palmers (smells good) and I have no problems ever with me smelling and my sweat has never smelled like it either. I wonder if people who sweat more might release the scent more? I never even thought my mix cream I made up smelled bad neither as I mix it up with cocoa butter, fenugreek, wild yam, fennell, etc. even by itself I can't smell pancakes? I wouldn't think smelling like pancakes would be bad though lol
Lydia
(Login Lydia1981)
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 15 2007, 3:42 PM
pheeewwww!: ) thanks fennel fairy! I will continue rotating then: )
Surf
(Login Surf.)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?
February 15 2007, 3:56 PM
Thanks for your knowledge of oils FennelFairy!!! Per FennelFairy, "Essential oils all have a tiny molecular size and penetrate deeply into the skin". Therefore, I did a bit of research on essential and carrier oils. See link
http://www.aromaweb.com/essentialoils/default.asp
What are Carrier Oils?
Adding an essential oil, drop by drop, to carrier oil.
Carrier oils also referred to as base oils or vegetable oils are used to dilute essential oils, CO2s and absolutes before applying to the skin. They carry the essential oil onto the skin. Different carrier oils offer different properties and the choice of carrier oil can depend on the therapeutic benefit being sought.
Carrier oils are generally cold-pressed vegetable oils derived from the fatty portions of the plant. Unlike essential oils that evaporate and have a concentrated aroma, carrier oils do not evaporate or impart their aroma as strongly as essential oils.
Examples of carrier oils are sweet almond, apricot kernel, grapeseed, avocado, peanut, olive, pecan, macadamia nut, sesame, evening primrose, walnut and wheat germ. Most oils bought in the grocery store are not cold-pressed. Instead, the oils are heated and therefore have less therapeutic benefit. Mineral oil is not used in aromatherapy because mineral oil is not a natural product. It is also said that mineral oil can prevent essential oil absorption into the skin.
Essential oils do not go rancid. Carrier oils, however, can go rancid. Carrier oils that you purchase should be natural and unadulterated. Exceptions include buying carrier oils that have natural vitamin E added. Vitamin E acts as a natural preservative.
Carrier Oils
Carrier oils also referred to as base oils or vegetable oils are used to dilute essential oils, CO2s and absolutes before applying to the skin. Please see the What are Carrier Oils? article for more information on what carrier oils are and how they are used. Below is a list of many of the commonly used carrier oils.
Almond, Sweet
Botanical Name: Prunus amygdalus var. dulcus
Aroma: Light, slightly sweet and nutty.
Texture: Slightly oily, leaves a slight oily feeling on the skin. Absorbs semi-quickly.
Color: Virtually clear with a tinge of yellow.
Notes: Sweet Almond oil is considered to be a good all-purpose carrier oil to keep on hand and is moderately priced.
Apricot Kernel
Botanical Name: Prunus armeniaca
Aroma: Faint
Texture: Somewhat oily, absorbs semi-quickly.
Color: Virtually clear with a tinge of yellow.
Notes: The semi-oily texture makes this oil helpful in massage blends.
Avocado
Botanical Name: Persea americana
Aroma: Medium. Somewhat sweet, fatty and nutty in aroma.
Texture: Thick, leaves a fatty, almost waxy feel to the skin.
Color: Deep olive green.
Notes: If not carefully used or used in a small dilution with another carrier, it may overpower a blend.
Borage
Botanical Name: Borago officinalis
Aroma: Light and sweet.
Texture: Thin to medium, leaves a somewhat oily feel to the skin.
Color: Light yellow.
Notes: Is said to be excellent in treating many skin conditions. Borage oil is expensive and is usually blended in a small (often 10%) dilution with other carrier oils. It goes rancid rather quickly.
Cocoa Butter
Botanical Name: Theobroma cacao
Aroma: Unrefined cocoa butter is rich and very sweet . It has a chocolaty, "cocoa" aroma. The cocoa aroma is less noticeable in refined cocoa butter.
Texture: Solid and hard to work with at room temperate. Breaks into pieces.
Color: Yellowish tan.
Notes: Cocoa butter needs to be blended with other materials/oils to be workable. Suitable for use in lotions and creams.
Evening Primrose
Botanical Name: Oenothera biennis
Aroma: Light and sweet
Texture: Thin, leaves only a trace of oiliness on the skin.
Color: Medium yellow.
Notes: Evening Primrose is also said to be excellent in treating many skin conditions. It is expensive and is usually blended in a small (often 10%) dilution with other carrier oils. It goes rancid quickly.
Grapeseed
Botanical Name: Vitus vinifera
Aroma: Light, slightly sweet with a hint of a nutty aroma.
Texture: Thin but leaves a glossy film on the skin.
Color: Virtually clear, has an almost unnoticeable tinge of yellow/green.
Notes: Unlike most other carrier oils, grapeseed oil is solvent extracted and may have trace amounts of chemical solvent remaining. I have heard mixed reports on the shelf-life of grapeseed (some have said it goes rancid rather fast). I usually go through a bottle of grapeseed once each six months and have not discovered any problems with rancidity when stored in an amber bottle in a cool dark area.
Hazelnut
Botanical Name: Corylus avellana
Aroma: Light, nutty, somewhat sweet.
Texture: Thin and only leaves a slightly oily film on the skin.
Color: Light yellow.
Notes: It is said to be a good choice for those with oilier skin.
Jojoba
Botanical Name: Simmondsia chinensis
Aroma: Light to medium in aroma, not as sweet as the nut oils. The aroma is distinct but pleasant.
Texture: Light and silky. Absorbs well.
Color: Yellow.
Notes: Jojoba "oil" is actually a wax. It is a somewhat pricier oil and is frequently blended in a small dilution (10%) with other oils. It has a very long shelf-life.
Kukui
Botanical Name: Aleurites moluccana
Aroma: Light, sweet, pleasant, nutty.
Texture: Thin. Absorbs well, leaving only a trace oily feeling on the skin.
Color: Clear with a hint of yellow.
Notes: It is said to be excellent in treating many skin conditions. It is a somewhat more pricier oil. It goes rancid rather quickly.
Macadamia Nut
Botanical Name: Macadamia integrifolia
Aroma: More fragrant than sweet almond and some of the other nut oils, it is very sweet, fatty and nutty in aroma.
Texture: Thick and leaves an oily film on the skin.
Color: Clear with a tinge of yellow.
Notes: If not carefully used or used in a small dilution with another carrier, it may overpower a blend.
Olive
Botanical Name: Olea europaea
Aroma: Typical aroma of olive oil used in cooking (smells somewhat like olives).
Texture: Heavy and rather oily.
Color: Light to medium green.
Notes: If not carefully used or used in a small dilution with another carrier, it may overpower a blend.
Peanut
Botanical Name: Arachis hypogeae
Aroma: Like Pecan, it is extremely light in aroma with a slight fatty, nutty quality.
Texture: Thick and leaves a very oily film on the skin.
Color: Virtually clear.
Notes: Peanut oil should not be used by anyone that has an allergy to peanuts. Because of it's oiliness, it is said to be a good choice for inclusion in massage blends. It has been said that it is a good oil to use for those with arthritis.
Pecan
Botanical Name: Carya pecan
Aroma: Extremely light with a hint of a fatty, nutty aroma.
Texture: Medium thickness, leaves a slight oily film on the skin.
Color: Virtually clear.
Notes: It is said that it goes rancid somewhat quickly. I have used only one bottle of Pecan oil and did not discover any problems with rancidity when stored in an amber bottle in a cool dark area during my use of the oil over about 4-6 months.
Rose Hip
Botanical Name: Rosa mosqueta
Aroma: Mild and perhaps earthy aroma.
Texture: Light and leaves only a hint of oil on the skin.
Color: Virtually clear.
Notes: It is said to be excellent in treating many skin conditions. It is expensive and is usually blended in a small (often 10%) dilution with other carrier oils. It goes rancid rather quickly.
Sesame
Botanical Name: Sesamum indicum
Aroma: Medium with a distinctive sweet, nutty sesame scent. May overpower a blend if not diluted with another carrier oil.
Texture: Mildly thick, leaves an oily film on the skin.
Color: Light yellow.
Notes: Sesame oil may overpower a blend if not diluted with another carrier oil.
Shea Butter
Botanical Name: Butyrospermun parkii
Aroma: Nutty, fatty.
Texture: Solid but permeable at room temperature. Leaves an oily/waxy feeling on the skin.
Color: Off-white/cream.
Notes: Suitable for use in lotions and creams.
Sunflower
Botanical Name: Helianthus annuus
Aroma: Faint and sweet.
Texture: Thin and does not leave an oily residue.
Color: Virtually clear with a tinge of yellow.
Notes: When choosing sunflower oil, strive to get unrefined oil.
********************************************************
HAZARDOUS Essential Oils: The list shown below contains essential oils that should not be used in aromatherapy without the express administration by a qualified aromatherapy practitioner. Many should not even be used by a qualified practitioner. Do not assume that an oil is safe to use if it is not on this list.
Ajowan
Trachyspermum copticum
Almond, Bitter
Prunus dulcis var. amara
Arnica
Arnica Montana
Birch, Sweet
Betula lenta
Boldo Leaf
Peumus boldus
Broom, Spanish
Spartium junceum
Calamus
Acorus calamus var. angustatus
Camphor
Cinnamomum camphora
Deertongue
Carphephorus odoratissimus
Garlic
Allium sativum
Horseradish
Armoracia rusticana
Jaborandi
Pilocarpus jaborandi
Melilotus
Melilotus officinalis
Mugwort
Artemisia vulgaris
Mustard
Brassica nigra
Onion
Allium cepa
Pennyroyal
Mentha pulegium
Rue
Ruta graveolens
Sassafras
Sassafras albidum
Thuja
Thuja occidentalis
Wintergreen
Gaultheria procumbens
Wormseed
Chenopodium ambrosioides var. anthelminticum
Wormwood
Artemisia absinthium
Important Note: The information provided in the Oil Profiles area is for educational purposes only. This data is not considered complete and is not guaranteed to be accurate.
************************************************
Essential Oil Safety Information
Diluting a very small quantity of essential oil in carrier oil.
Essential oils are highly concentrated liquids that can be harmful if not used carefully. Implementing aromatherapy into your lifestyle shouldn't cause paranoia or undue worry. By treating essential oils as medicines and following the steps outlined below, you will be well on your way to safely enjoying the many benefits that aromatherapy can offer.
These safety guidelines are not a complete safety reference for the proper use of essential oils. When in doubt, consult your physician and/or a qualified and trained aromatherapy practitioner.
Essential oils should never be used undiluted on the skin. There are instances when experienced aromatherapy users and practitioners make exceptions to this precaution, but only once significant essential oil knowledge is gained should you ever attempt to apply an undiluted oil on the skin. Lavender and tea tree are listed by a large number of aromatherapy sources as being oils that can be used undiluted. Undiluted use of lavender and tea tree, however, should only be done on rare occurances as severe sensitivity still could occur in some individuals. Again, the safest rule of thumb is to never use any essential oil undiluted.
Some oils can cause sensitization or allergic reactions in some individuals. When using a new oil for the first time, do a skin patch on a small area of skin. Place a small amount of the diluted essential oil (never use essential oils undiluted on the skin) on the inside of your elbow and apply a bandage. Wait 24 hours to see if there is any form of reaction. Even if a particular essential oil is not known to cause irritation, this step should not be ignored. Even if an oil does not irritate you, it still can irritate someone else. It is important that you always keep that in mind.
Some essential oils should be avoided during pregnancy or by those with asthma, epilepsy, or with other health conditions.
Less IS More. When using essential oils, use the smallest amount of essential oils that will get the job done. If one drop will get the job done, for example, don't use two drops.
Not all essential oils are suitable for use in aromatherapy. Wormood, pennyroyal, onion, camphor, horseradish, wintergreen, rue, bitter almond and sassafras are some of the essential oils that should only be used by qualified aromatherapy practitioners, if ever at all.
Never let children use essential oils without the presence of an adult knowledgeable about their use. Most essential oils smell wonderful and many essential oils such as citrus oils can smell like they are safe to drink. Keep your essential oils away from children. Treat the oils like medicines that are poison in unknowing hands.
Essential oils should not be taken internally. Essential oils should only be taken internally after receiving a detailed consultation and prescription from a trained and qualified aromatherapy practitioner.
Essential oils are flammable. Please keep them out of the way of fire hazards.
