[Dynseli]

Hahaha. Thank you for laying the smack down on that idiot. I couldn't be bothered since his bullshit was so obviously bullshit.

The only other way myself that I'd consider trying to alter my pelvic skeleton other than hormones, which, btw, relaxin type 2 by itself is NOT sufficient, it works together with progesterone to widen the pelvis, is to go under the knife professionally. Most surgeons won't touch the skeleton, and fewer still will do "cosmetic" changes, and almost none will do pelvis widening for trans women.

Really? You know nothing, you are only trying to one up me, out of jealousy. I've explained past it, and you ignored that. I know people have a certain amount of fat cells that don't change. Still, the mass from muscle, even though the number of cells don't change, goes into fat. You're the one who is a fool.

"The only other way myself that I'd consider trying to alter my pelvic skeleton other than hormones, which, btw, relaxin type 2 by itself is NOT sufficient, it works together with progesterone to widen the pelvis, is to go under the knife professionally. Most surgeons won't touch the skeleton, and fewer still will do "cosmetic" changes, and almost none will do pelvis widening for trans women. " This is the stupidest thing I've read here.

[Dynseli]

How is muscle formed? Fat helps by being a reservoir of calories and nutrients that goes into muscle. When muscle isn't used, the material goes back into the body, even if it is the bit that goes into fat cells. Despite that the number of fat cells doesn't change.

[Dynseli]

Abi, no one cares about your pseudo scientific research. Then you're trying to build off of what I put on this thread, as a basis. It's jealousy, that you can only criticize so you can feel smart about yourself. You're angry because you couldn't one up me, so you had to get insulting. You'll end up looking like the fool.

Oh, and read that post again. It contradicts you, more than it does what I said.

[AbiDrew85]

I have not been able to find any other herbs with proven efficacy at increasing relaxin type 2 expression. Also, contrary to various things claimed by another individual, those that showed activity in this respect showed it irrespective of cycle or pregnancy. Additionally, estrogenic and galactagogue herbs WERE tested in various studies and showed NO activity, disproving yet another of this persons claims. I won't be linking to all the various studies, if someone is interested they can repeat the search themselves. My terms were simple: relaxin 2 herbs.

Whilst the one herb that has wide availability is not cheap, it is certainly less expensive than trying to get access to the hormone itself which does not have wide availability. The cost of the other herb is currently unknown due to apparent limited availability. However, I did not look all that hard, only at the more common retailers like Swanson, iHerb, and Amazon online, and my own local ones.

In conclusion, I can not myself afford to add a Pycnogenol product to my program at this time, but would recommend it to anyone who can afford to and desire significantly wider hips. If I ever find a job, it will be something I'll put into my program IF I can't convince whoever I get for my hormones for HRT to prescribe synthetic to me, or insurance to cover it even if I can.

For those who do decide to use it be aware that it will encourage skeletal growth in areas other than the hips, such as the feet and hands. For me, this isn't that bad of a trade, as if the new growth happens in a more feminine arrangement I wouldn't mind having longer feet but slimmer for their size or the same for fingers, but for some it might be a problem and you should be aware of it before doing something to increase your relaxin expression. These are things that will happen to you naturally in pregnancy, so its not a BAD thing medically, but you might not want it cosmetically.

[Dynseli]

Progesterone is largely present during the luteal phase, and it's presence is there but negligible during other times. According to a link I showed, NATURAL bodily produced relaxin follows this same pattern.

[Dynseli]

As to muscle changing the bones, I can tell you - IT DOES, to limited extent. Ugly beast, too - think shin splints, osgood schlotter's disease, bone spurs. NOT effective for our wants, and painful enough I wouldn't think we'd even make the connection. What happens is the tendon pulls part of the bone away from the rest of the bone, and the body heals it. So far, OK, recoverable.
BUT, repeat multiple times in one place? Messy and ugly. Think of a karate champion's hands, or the googles should give you some idea, especially Osgood Schlotter's. I have it - it's just a spot on my knee where the bone was crushed and shifted. And that was done several hundred times climbing out of a pool.
Now it's a lump, where the bone calcifies, dies, and then is presumed injured - and re-calcifies, and those cells die, and...
By the time I die in 40 years, say? Might grow to be the size of a garlic clove. Ineffective, painful, unpretty. :-P
I don't even want to think about how you'd do that to your hips, and I've been damaged that way, too. :-(

Scary where we end up sometimes... ;-)

-Dianna

I'm in no way referring to scar tissue and damage to bone, by unhealthy exercise or jerky movements. With an increase in healthy muscle, bones become slightly thicker, healthier and stronger.

[BillyBoy_Delano]

When herbs bring on a sort of puberty for genetic males there is a possibility of hip growth. For me it happened. Remember your genes your nearest female relative will be a genetic marker for you. My grandmother was very curvy so I hope to shoot for breast and hip size one size smaller than her.

[AbiDrew85]

When herbs bring on a sort of puberty for genetic males there is a possibility of hip growth. For me it happened. Remember your genes your nearest female relative will be a genetic marker for you. My grandmother was very curvy so I hope to shoot for breast and hip size one size smaller than her.

You likely experienced some change in fat deposits to the area, but actual skeletal changes are only possible with relaxin in the mix.

[Dynseli]

actual skeletal changes are only possible with relaxin in the mix.

FALSE!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26453503
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26657214
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26924474
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26529821

There's plenty more literature similar to this ...

but, figure out what the link below has to do with exercise, lack of exercise, and bone remodeling, or don't.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26545335 Effects of spaceflight on the murine mandible: Possible factors mediating skeletal changes in non-weight bearing bones of the head.

[AbiDrew85]

Nice tries, but none of those are talking about actual serious changes to skeletal shape in ways that are desirable. One was talking about how exercise helps to prevent development of bone LOSS, one was talking about what Dianna mentioned up above about how certain exercise can cause the skeleton to reshape in damaging ways, but none of them were talking about getting post-puberty skeletal shape changes. The ONLY way that actually happens short of surgery or damage is relaxin type 2 hormone. It's actually the hormone that causes girls hips to widen in puberty, and it causes women's hips to widen again in pregnancy. It also causes skeletal restructuring to other areas, mainly feet and hands as I mentioned.