[Peirong]

I started my NBE program in April by taking 1tsp of ground fenugreek a day and I noticed that my boobs got fuller, especially around the first few weeks of taking it. They haven't increased in cupsize (I'm still a 34B), but they just fill up my bra more. I still continue to take it daily. I feel like my boobs haven't really changed for the past weeks though, they've just stayed as they are, so I want to add more to my program but not sure where to start.

I guess massage is always good, so I'll implement that. I cannot get a Noogleberry because of the ridiculous international shipping cost, so I'm not looking to get any devices any time soon. Buying anything online is also very expensive here, so I feel like I've got limited options. Should I try finding pueraria mirifica? Is it ok to take fenugreek and PM together? I'm just worried about my hormones not being balanced.

What do you recommend I do next?

[surferjoe2007]

I started my NBE program in April by taking 1tsp of ground fenugreek a day and I noticed that my boobs got fuller, especially around the first few weeks of taking it. They haven't increased in cupsize (I'm still a 34B), but they just fill up my bra more. I still continue to take it daily. I feel like my boobs haven't really changed for the past weeks though, they've just stayed as they are, so I want to add more to my program but not sure where to start.

I guess massage is always good, so I'll implement that. I cannot get a Noogleberry because of the ridiculous international shipping cost, so I'm not looking to get any devices any time soon. Buying anything online is also very expensive here, so I feel like I've got limited options. Should I try finding pueraria mirifica? Is it ok to take fenugreek and PM together? I'm just worried about my hormones not being balanced.

What do you recommend I do next?

That's very little fenugreek, especially with no other herbs, and it's impressive that it gave you fullness. I would do more of the same since you responded well. Many of the most successful programs use 1-2tbsp. (3-6 tsp). Or instead of powder you may also soak whole seeds in water for a bit, rinse them off and snack on them. To get to DD won't be easy, so I'll help some more.

Besides that:
- 320 mg saw palmetto extract goes well with fenugreek. Or lots of spearmint tea.
- Massage is good. Try using flax oil for your oil. Look in the forums or Google for how to do female deer massage.
- Yes you can take fenugreek and PM together (and everything else here). Don't overdo it on the PM because you need a balance of hormones to grow and too much PM by itself could throw off that balance. Try 200-300 mg all month, or cycle 500 mg. Search forums for how to cycle.
- 500 mg vitex can help with hormonal balance making it easier to tolerate and grow from PM.
- Do pectoral muscle exercises with heavy weights, heavy enough to get a little sore. Such as chest flies. 3 sets, 8 repetitions per set. 3 times a week resting every other day.
- 5,000 mg of creatine a day will help with the muscle building.

I think that will get you to D or DD because you responded well to fenugreek. After that it gets harder. Assuming it all works well and you grow, you will stay at a certain size again and will need more again.

[Tanya Marie Squirrel]

I started my NBE program in April by taking 1tsp of ground fenugreek a day and I noticed that my boobs got fuller, especially around the first few weeks of taking it. They haven't increased in cupsize (I'm still a 34B), but they just fill up my bra more. I still continue to take it daily. I feel like my boobs haven't really changed for the past weeks though, they've just stayed as they are, so I want to add more to my program but not sure where to start.

I guess massage is always good, so I'll implement that. I cannot get a Noogleberry because of the ridiculous international shipping cost, so I'm not looking to get any devices any time soon. Buying anything online is also very expensive here, so I feel like I've got limited options. Should I try finding pueraria mirifica? Is it ok to take fenugreek and PM together? I'm just worried about my hormones not being balanced.

What do you recommend I do next?

Fenugreek, is a world-reknown galactagogue (used in inducing/increasing breast milk), it also increases the size of the lactiferous ducts(milk glands), this may be why they seem fuller, but not larger. it is the diosgenin (same as the wild yam/progesterone cream). it encourages growth of the milk ducts.
http://www.botanical-online.com/english/...erties.htm (see fenugreek for women on link provided).

you may want to add something that is phytoestrogenic. though adding volume is not a bad thing either. it helps support the fatty tissue that is primarily the makeup of the breasts.

[Peirong]

I started my NBE program in April by taking 1tsp of ground fenugreek a day and I noticed that my boobs got fuller, especially around the first few weeks of taking it. They haven't increased in cupsize (I'm still a 34B), but they just fill up my bra more. I still continue to take it daily. I feel like my boobs haven't really changed for the past weeks though, they've just stayed as they are, so I want to add more to my program but not sure where to start.

I guess massage is always good, so I'll implement that. I cannot get a Noogleberry because of the ridiculous international shipping cost, so I'm not looking to get any devices any time soon. Buying anything online is also very expensive here, so I feel like I've got limited options. Should I try finding pueraria mirifica? Is it ok to take fenugreek and PM together? I'm just worried about my hormones not being balanced.

What do you recommend I do next?

That's very little fenugreek, especially with no other herbs, and it's impressive that it gave you fullness. I would do more of the same since you responded well. Many of the most successful programs use 1-2tbsp. (3-6 tsp). Or instead of powder you may also soak whole seeds in water for a bit, rinse them off and snack on them. To get to DD won't be easy, so I'll help some more.

Besides that:
- 320 mg saw palmetto extract goes well with fenugreek. Or lots of spearmint tea.
- Massage is good. Try using flax oil for your oil. Look in the forums or Google for how to do female deer massage.
- Yes you can take fenugreek and PM together (and everything else here). Don't overdo it on the PM because you need a balance of hormones to grow and too much PM by itself could throw off that balance. Try 200-300 mg all month, or cycle 500 mg. Search forums for how to cycle.
- 500 mg vitex can help with hormonal balance making it easier to tolerate and grow from PM.
- Do pectoral muscle exercises with heavy weights, heavy enough to get a little sore. Such as chest flies. 3 sets, 8 repetitions per set. 3 times a week resting every other day.
- 5,000 mg of creatine a day will help with the muscle building.

I think that will get you to D or DD because you responded well to fenugreek. After that it gets harder. Assuming it all works well and you grow, you will stay at a certain size again and will need more again.

Thank you so so much! Incredibly appreciated.

[Peirong]

I started my NBE program in April by taking 1tsp of ground fenugreek a day and I noticed that my boobs got fuller, especially around the first few weeks of taking it. They haven't increased in cupsize (I'm still a 34B), but they just fill up my bra more. I still continue to take it daily. I feel like my boobs haven't really changed for the past weeks though, they've just stayed as they are, so I want to add more to my program but not sure where to start.

I guess massage is always good, so I'll implement that. I cannot get a Noogleberry because of the ridiculous international shipping cost, so I'm not looking to get any devices any time soon. Buying anything online is also very expensive here, so I feel like I've got limited options. Should I try finding pueraria mirifica? Is it ok to take fenugreek and PM together? I'm just worried about my hormones not being balanced.

What do you recommend I do next?

Fenugreek, is a world-reknown galactagogue (used in inducing/increasing breast milk), it also increases the size of the lactiferous ducts(milk glands), this may be why they seem fuller, but not larger. it is the diosgenin (same as the wild yam/progesterone cream). it encourages growth of the milk ducts.
http://www.botanical-online.com/english/...erties.htm (see fenugreek for women on link provided).

you may want to add something that is phytoestrogenic. though adding volume is not a bad thing either. it helps support the fatty tissue that is primarily the makeup of the breasts.

Doesn't fenugreek have phytoestogenic content though?

[surferjoe2007]

I started my NBE program in April by taking 1tsp of ground fenugreek a day and I noticed that my boobs got fuller, especially around the first few weeks of taking it. They haven't increased in cupsize (I'm still a 34B), but they just fill up my bra more. I still continue to take it daily. I feel like my boobs haven't really changed for the past weeks though, they've just stayed as they are, so I want to add more to my program but not sure where to start.

I guess massage is always good, so I'll implement that. I cannot get a Noogleberry because of the ridiculous international shipping cost, so I'm not looking to get any devices any time soon. Buying anything online is also very expensive here, so I feel like I've got limited options. Should I try finding pueraria mirifica? Is it ok to take fenugreek and PM together? I'm just worried about my hormones not being balanced.

What do you recommend I do next?

Fenugreek, is a world-reknown galactagogue (used in inducing/increasing breast milk), it also increases the size of the lactiferous ducts(milk glands), this may be why they seem fuller, but not larger. it is the diosgenin (same as the wild yam/progesterone cream). it encourages growth of the milk ducts.
http://www.botanical-online.com/english/...erties.htm (see fenugreek for women on link provided).

you may want to add something that is phytoestrogenic. though adding volume is not a bad thing either. it helps support the fatty tissue that is primarily the makeup of the breasts.

Doesn't fenugreek have phytoestogenic content though?

It's an adaptable herb that works well with your existing hormones and other herbs you take, enhancing their effects. There's a lot of confusion around fenugreek since it seems to have estrogen-like effects but it doesn't have phytoestrogenic content. It should combine well with pueraria mirifica. The effects you got from fenugreek alone are because it combines well with your existing hormones.

Some women grow from fenugreek alone, or fenugreek + saw palmetto extract (anti-testosterone) is a more popular program. You can also benefit more from adding a real phytoestrogen such as pueraria mirifica because like I said it all combines well.

[AbiDrew85]

Doesn't fenugreek have phytoestogenic content though?

It's an adaptable herb that works well with your existing hormones and other herbs you take, enhancing their effects. There's a lot of confusion around fenugreek since it seems to have estrogen-like effects but it doesn't have phytoestrogenic content. It should combine well with pueraria mirifica. The effects you got from fenugreek alone are because it combines well with your existing hormones.

Some women grow from fenugreek alone, or fenugreek + saw palmetto extract (anti-testosterone) is a more popular program. You can also benefit more from adding a real phytoestrogen such as pueraria mirifica because like I said it all combines well.

... Surferjoe and the misinformation train again. Fenugreek DOES contain phytoestrogenic compounds. Please see the following:

https://phytochem.nal.usda.gov/phytochem...ow/2046?et=

That lists the various phytochemical compounds in fenugreek.

Now see this:

http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/918/art%253A10.1007%252Fs13659-012-0014-3.pdf?originUrl=http%3A%2F%2Flink.springer.com%2Farticle%2F10.1007%2Fs13659-012-0014-3&token2=exp=1463325497~acl=%2Fstatic%2Fpdf%2F918%2Fart%25253A10.1007%25252Fs13659-012-0014-3.pdf%3ForiginUrl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Flink.springer.com%252Farticle%252F10.1007%252Fs13659-012-0014-3*~hmac=77307412fbc51a09b8a59bb6dfe63ea023ad52fed4085bd3c054ab722fe47c3b

Of particular interest is this paragraph:

1.12 Effect of Diosgenin on Reproductive System
An effect of diosgenin on the calpain isoform expression in ovariectomized rats was investigated. To the contrary, no significant difference in the expression of mu- and m-calpain mRNAs among the different diosgenin dosage groups was found. Decreased expression of mu- or m-calpain was observed in the ovariectomized group compared with the normal controls. Effect of diosgenin on stimulated growth of
mammary epithelium for 15 days was investigated with a parameter of increase in DNA content, increase in number of ducts and appearance of terminal endbuds in this study, and the observation was a significant increase in the mammary development scores. Concomitant treatment of estrogen and diosgenin showed augmentation of estrogenic effect of diosgenin especially at the higher dose level.

What the above paragraph essentially means is that everything Surferjoe said is the exact opposite of the truth. Rather than augment a natural supply of estrogen, which the rats tested did not even have, it REPLACED the natural estrogen and behaved directly upon the estrogen receptors.

Also refer to this study:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.10...22333/full

This study is the study the above was referencing.

[surferjoe2007]

Dunno how but fenugreek is also popular in bodybuilding forums with hundreds/thousands of users. A quick google will get you endless hits. And they use it even though they're all terrified of moobs and they monitor themselves closely, often even doing blood tests. The fear of moobs may come from the steroids that some of them use. Maybe the study effects came because a little estrogen is also produced in other tissues besides the ovaries? Effect of extreme dose? Who knows. But tons of and tons of straight male bodybuilders are using fenugreek. The amount of diosgen in the study referenced in your article scales to about 1200 and 2400 mg diosgenin in a person btw. Fenugreek seeds contain 0.1% to 1.5% diosgenin: http://isss.ind.in/pdf/journal2013/5.pdf . So that's at least 80,000 mg to 160,000 mg seed, if not a lot more. I couldn't find how much mammary growth there was with and without concomitant estrogen in that study, which could be interesting.

[AbiDrew85]

Dunno how but fenugreek is also popular in bodybuilding forums with hundreds/thousands of users. A quick google will get you endless hits. And they use it even though they're all terrified of moobs and they monitor themselves closely, often even doing blood tests. The fear of moobs may come from the steroids that some of them use. Maybe the study effects came because a little estrogen is also produced in other tissues besides the ovaries? Who knows. But tons of and tons of straight male bodybuilders are using fenugreek. The amount of diosgen in the study referenced in your article scales to about 1200 and 2400 mg diosgenin in a person btw. Fenugreek seeds contain 0.1% to 1.5% diosgenin: http://isss.ind.in/pdf/journal2013/5.pdf . So that's at least 80,000 mg to 160,000 mg seed. I couldn't find how much growth there was with and without concomitant estrogen in that study, which could be interesting.

Because it's a very weak phytoestrogen. It acts on the ER, but it doesn't do very much to it in comparison to stronger estrogens. In a male body, testosterone overpowers any effect it might have. In a female body, it can actually hurt depending on what their particular hormone balance is. My guess on why male bodybuilders think it helps would be that maybe it displaces stronger estrogens produced by their overactive testosterone from bodybuilding. IDK.

[surferjoe2007]

Then the more pragmatic question is does it combine well with PM or not (is it synergistic, conflicting or redundant?). In theory and in practice. I'm sure on at least some tiny level it has an effect on several different hormones. But I'm too practical to care.