[admin]

i have deep vein thombosis
August 20 2006 at 1:59 PM shell  (no login)

hi as you may remember i am on 4th month of pm 500mg 2daily my periods immediately got later the last one being 19 days late and when it arrived was very light .last week i got this amazing pain in my right calf and going further up my right leg which i thought was cramp, then as it got worse thought it sciatica ,on wednesday i had to go to docs as i couldnt walk as it so painful he took blood tests and 3 hours later i am in hospital!my tests showed a blood clot i am now on warfarin after a scan on my leg i havent mentioned pm to doc or late periods but wonder if it has anything to do with it what do you girls think




ash
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
August 21 2006, 8:38 AM

oh my god shell I hope your ok. My period is 6 days late now and I stopped taking pm and sp last week to see if it would come. I was thinking of having a months break as i'd got myself a bit worried about how long my cycle was becomming. I've been taking it since mid May. If there is a link between PM and DVT thats serious. My paternal grandmother died of DVT so its something that I always tell doctors when they take a history. My sister in law also had a serious scare last year when she had 2 clots in her lung. Whats happened to you has made my mind up for me and I'm going to have a months break and only do my massages.
I hope that everything is ok for you and that they get you better soon. Keep us posted on how you are.
Best Wishes Ash x




shell
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
August 21 2006, 12:58 PM

hi ash thanx for replying,my leg is soo painful back to hospital on thursdy for another scan .i did not mention pm to docs but probably will ,i am still taking pm but i finish botttle this week so i will take a break,i was going to anyway as my last period was 19 days late! as you may remember i want to start st herb,so i will start that when i get the all clear,and will only take it for 15 days so i get mini break evey month.hopefully the pm and dvt wont be connected,trouble is most docs havent even heard of pm!




ash
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
August 21 2006, 4:53 PM

Hi shell
I still have no period and have stopped the pm and sp. Got some raspberry leaf capsules today in the hope they will get the period going. I'm gonna have a break for a month, then maybe start again for a couple of months and have another break. or do the 15 days on 15 days off like you do with st herb. Best of luck for thursday
x




ash
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
August 21 2006, 5:18 PM

Sorry Shell
i meant to ask are you going to take the 4 capsules a day as recommended by st herb? What amont of PM do they contain? Was thinking when I've eventualy finished mine i might get st herb capsules and cream.




shell
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
August 22 2006, 4:15 PM

hi ash,yes i am going to take the 4 a day i have been in touch with st herb who advise me to start the caps on the last day of my period,which for me will prob be day 4 ,and stick with 15 days on 15 off no matter if period comes on time or not,apparently this way period gets more regular iuse the bigup pm breast cream which i got off ebay its made by dorlene i got 4 jars for around 50 quid it was available from a seller in uk but still with p&p it cheaper to buy abroad and got here in a week i have worked out that tomorrrow is now my 15th day so after tomorrow i will stop my pm and wait another month before starting st herb tho i must say the pm500mg im taking now has made be bigger,i havent lost any growth i am now between c/d cup measuring 31 1/2 inches underneath and 38 1/2 fullest part and im pleased! definately gained 2 1/2 inches in 4 months




Ash
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
August 22 2006, 7:31 PM

Hi Shell
My period came at last today. Phew!!! You've had good growth. I started at 29" under and just under 32" over fullest part. I'm now measuring 33 1/2" over fullest, but i will measure on day 5 of my cycle. I'm quite pleased with that growth since mid May. Now that my period is here I'm not so sure that I'll have a months break maybe I'll just continue with the 2x pm and sp per day until I've finished my pm and then maybe I'll try another brand.
Best of luck on Thursday x




teardropDs
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
August 23 2006, 11:11 PM

Hi girls, glad youre all growing, it definitelely seems true that when your period is disrupted it means the PM is balancing and building up your body with estrogen,

Shell how are you do you know if the PM is related to DVT? i hope its not and i hope you recover soon.

Ash: break out the lilets!! at last! Since doing 15 days off method so far after the past months breakthrough blleding everything has been ok, i least i knoew that i should not be aloarmed if its late now because of what u have experienced.

Happy growing (*)(*)




Rinoa_Lewis
(Login rinoa_lewis)
SENIOR MEMBER
any news?
February 17 2007, 8:34 AM

Shell...did you ever find out if PM and your DVT were connected?




shell
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
February 18 2007, 11:58 PM

hi no i never did find out for sure but i stopped the 500mg pm ,i was taking 2 per day,because at the same time my period was 3 weeks late,after stopping pm it arrived week later.i gave myself a month off before starting st herb,which suggests 15 days take then 15 day break - no problem with periods.i have been told that taking to much phytoestrogens can cause blood clots ! i am 90% sure it was the 500mg pm and would definately never use that brand again




Rinoa_Lewis
(Login rinoa_lewis)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
February 19 2007, 9:01 AM

Thanks for your reply!

Hope all is well again... :S

What brand were you using if you don't mind me asking..?




shell
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
February 22 2007, 9:37 AM

hi i was using pm from pueraria uk 500mg extreme




LovelyAmanda
(Login LovelyAmanda)
SENIOR MEMBER
Shell
February 22 2007, 4:32 PM

Dear Shell,

I've been following your progress for awhile now and I'm very sorry to hear about your recent illness, what a terrible thing. I'm so glad that you caught it and that you didn't suffer a stroke from the clotting. To my knowledge, it is the high doses of estrogen that can sometimes lead to these problems, that is why there are so many warning labels on birth control and things of that nature. I have decided to give St. Herb a try and I only ordered their pills and not the cream. From my understanding, you were taking their pills as well but then added a different brand of cream? I hope you are feeling better. Keep us updated...

Best to you,
Amanda




Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
March 2 2007, 5:01 AM

Perhaps Ginko biloba could be taken by people to reduce the chance of clots? Cayenne might help, too.




Anonymous
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
March 2 2007, 6:13 AM

Neither gingko nor cayenne would help reduce risk of clotting. If you are looking for herbal to reduce clotting perhaps willow bark. Not smoking also decreases your risk of clotting.




Deborah
(Login forme2know)
DVT and Phytoestrogens
March 15 2007, 8:00 AM

I see everyone is concerned about the use of the PM products and the health risks etc. In this case it is the Deep Vein Thrombosis scare that has you all wondering.

One thing you all need to keep in mind is....that phytoestrogens (from plant sources) are not the same as the animal based synthetic estrogens in BCP or in drugs for menopause HRT like Premarin. There is a huge difference. For one, the plant based estrogen...miroestrol in PM, is not a steriod compound. The estrogens in the drugs mentioned ARE steriod compounds. The recent study that was halted by the researchers, using estrogen for HRT, siting increase risk for cancer, heart disease and stroke (a clot in the brain), were the synthetic animal based ones. These are now know to have more risk than previously thought.

PM contains Miroestrol. The most recent studies done in Korea and Thailand at major University Hospitals have shown that the active plant estrogen in PM, miroestrol, is actually a "inhibitor" of many of the hormone dependant cancer cell lines. This means that this unique plant compound has the ability to act more as a preventative of cancer than to promote it.

It also is what is called an "agonist" for calcium. This means that it promotes bone density and can prevent and possibly treat osteoporosis. Miroestrol can IMPROVE cholesterol level profiles and therefore aid in preventing heart disease in women. There is no direct evidence linking miroestrol or PM to blood clots in the literature.

One important thing to know is that you do NOT need large doses of PM if it is high quality. By high quaility I mean, PM that is made from the extended harvest, genetically selected, and organically cultivated varieties that are used in research. There is only one place to source this plant material. From Northern Thailand were they have set up the farm to grow this high grade Pueraria for comercial and research purposes.

The 500mg capsules(like the Pueraria Extreme product) are not necessary or even safe. The question to ask is...why such a large dose in this product? The most likely answere is...because it is not high grade Pueraria? If you use a high grade or PREMIUM grade PM product you need only 400mg 2 x daily for 14 days of the month. There is only 160 mg of PM in each of the Stherb capsules. The are 80% PM and 20% other tropical herbs. So even if you take 4 daily you will only be getting 640mg of PM daily. This is almost HALF of what is suggested use of the Pueraria UK Extreme Product.

I suggest to you that smaller is better. More is not always desirable. I would also suggest to you that you stay away from the very inexpensive products on the market. They are not made from Premium grade PM. They are made from the wild grown plants that contain little or no active ingredients.

The botton line is...not all Pueraria is created equal and that if you use a premium grade PM you do not need large doses. PM and the active, miroestrol are very potent substances and one must not go overboard when using it. It will just mess up your periods and cause unwanted effects. I hope this helps.

Deborah




Deborah
(Login forme2know)
Correction....PM dosage guidelines and DVT
March 15 2007, 8:30 AM

The dose of PM for the stherb capsules is 400mg 2 times a day...the PM content is 160mg per 200mg cap. So the total daily dose of PM is 720mg daily. This is in contrast to the suggested dose of 500mg 2 times a day for the Pueraria Extreme product by Pueraria UK. Those tablets are 500mg each and you get a full 1000mg daily. I suggest that this is not necessary or even desirable.

The lady that had the DVT...there was a strong family history of this condition and that is significant. Any one with pre-existing medical conditions should really check with their doctors. The only problem is that many doctors do not know much about Miroestrol yet.

Deborah




shell
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
March 16 2007, 1:26 PM

hi deborah i had the DVT while on pm uk capsules and there is NO family history of it in my family i am now on st herb with no problems




deborah
(Login forme2know)
Really,,,,Wow.
March 18 2007, 7:31 AM

That is VERY Interesting. I thought you said there was a family history....sorry my error. I have been very suspect of the 500mg Pueraria Extreme...extreme is the word. I talked to my friend that inports the PM to the US about the 500mg dose. He said it was absolutely not needed and in fact will cause problems...mess with your periods etc. He also suggested that Pueraria UK is likely using wild grown plant material in the supplements. (The price of PM Premium Grade doesn't equate with his large size capsules and the price he is selling at). Just a speculation.

I looked at his site and he doesn't really ever say where he sources the PM he has in his products. He has very little information at all.

This is interesting...I contacted him (Pueraria UK) and asked him "where" the PM in his products was sourced and he would not return my email. I had another interaction with him before, as I, at one time was thinking of trying to resell his products...he was very rude to me. lol It was weird, very weird.

I am working on my own PM cream and maybe will private label the Blossom-s Soap. The raw materials supplier wants a committment from me, for 5000 tubes of cream!! I know it would be an excellent product because of the way the soap is. But 5000 is a lot of PM cream to sell.

I will keep you all updated about the possibility of my custom PM Cream.

I certainly hope you are in the clear from your DVT scare. That is scary stuff. Take care all. Will be back .

Deborah




LovelyAmanda
(Login LovelyAmanda)
SENIOR MEMBER
Scared
March 18 2007, 7:45 AM

Hi everyone,

There is some great information here in regard to PM in general. I have received my order of St. Herb capsules and I am very scared to take them after reading posts about weight gain and irregular periods. I just began my period two days ago and took the first two pills but then chickened out! I was wondering if this is only happening with other PM products or with St. Herb as well? I have worked so hard to lose weight and it would be devestating to gain it back. I know there are several ladies currently using the PM creams, but are any of you taking the capsules and if so how many have received bad side effects? And is it better to use the soaps and creams instead of the capsules? Any feedback on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and best to all,
Amanda




chloe105
(no login)
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
March 18 2007, 5:30 PM

I am using St. Herb capsules and Nano cream. I had nausea, fatigue, and headaches. This did improve after one week. I am taking them 2wks on and 2 wks off. My period is late so I have experienced some menstrual irreg. I start my 2nd course of the capsules tomorrow. I am nervous because of the menstrual irreg,but it is recommended to take it this way and eventually the cycle regulates.

Positive aspect: I have tried just about everything without significant results. I have noticed increased fullness. My BF said today they are bigger. He is not the type to say there is difference if there isn't.

Everyone is diff. but it seems that Jelly had similar sxs but she seems to be growing. I do not know if Shell experienced any nausea and had a leg vein clot on a diff. product. She seems to have done really well on the St. Herb.

Jelly, Shell, Ash, and faerycat have written about their experiences with PM. You can search through the old posts for more info.

I do appreciate Deborah's input. However, she is a seller of the product so please do your own research.




Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: i have deep vein thombosis
June 26 2007, 2:09 PM

Bumping for StefSS, important info in this thread!

[admin]

Message to Shell
August 28 2006 at 12:55 PM Ash (no login)

Hi Shell
Just wondering how you got on with your scan? Did you ention taking PM?
x




shell
(no login)
Re: Message to Shell
August 31 2006, 1:38 PM

hi ash sorry been away few days being pampered by mum ! my scan showed clot in vein that takes blood to calf muscle it has almost gone now thanks to anti coagulant i did mention pm to doc but he didnt think there is a link but i will be talking to gp about it at length,trouble is docs dont seem to know much about herbs. i am on break at mo ,waiting for period to come next week then i will start st herb,i wrote to manufacturers who advised me to start taking it on the last day of period for 15 days (which will be day 3 usually) apparently taking on last day helps to regulate periods better.




Snowflake
(no login)
SOOOO sorrt you had to go through that!!!!!
September 19 2006, 11:32 AM

Hey Shell, how are you. Just read this and was shocked. Hope you can get to the bottom of this and find out why it happened, so youdon't think you did it to your self. Hope you are OK and will still be able to take herbs for NBE if you choose to do so. Take special care Shell, Hoping your doctors have some answers for you!!!!




Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Progestrone
September 21 2006, 11:43 AM

Hey Shell, Saw a commercial on TV last night, on an American channel, for a cervical ring with hormones in it for birth control. It is to be replaced once a month. ANYway point is, they said one of the risks for using the ring was elevated progestrone level may put some people at risk for blood clots. Maybe something you could ask your doctor. So take care shell, your better soon!!!




Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
All Hormones confuse Me,,,
September 21 2006, 1:35 PM

Can't keep staright whats good and whats bad and what does what!!!!! It totally mind boggling to me, but I just thought I would relay to you what I heard. Take Special Care Shell, luv Snowflake




shell
(no login)
Re: Message to Shell
September 22 2006, 3:26 PM

hi girls my clot has gone!man it was painful i have now started on st herb taking for fifteen days then break my .i did have a break of 3 weeks before starting it,my last period was ten days late before starting st herb so lets see what happens,i am however going to continue taking aspirin daily to kep my blood thinner i do think the clot was related to the pm as i was 3 weeks late when it happened,so maybe taking the fifteen day brek will help to fend off anymore clots i will be asking my gp for hormone checks when i next go but he will go mad if i tell him about pm,he doesnt agree with any other form of medecine especially ones off internet!!!i now know the signs of clot so i will be on my guard i will keep you posted

[admin]

Miss You, Shell!!
May 20 2007 at 2:55 PM katherine (Login BObabe)

Hi Shell, Just wondering how you've been doing lately. Are you finished with your NBE quest now that you've had such amazing results? Are you still taking St.Herb for maintenance? No more scary blood clots?

Have been thinking of you and hope all is well!

katherine




shell
(no login)
Re: Miss You, Shell!!
May 21 2007, 1:09 PM

hi katherine !yes im still here i am very well thank you just finished my last bottle of st herb now taking break for three months.i have kept all my growth so far but will be back on it if i lose growth now i will just be doing massages and using blossom soap twice daily,been using for a month now but not got any bigger perhaps i have got as big as i can get i am now wearing a 34D . take care





Halome
(Login Halome)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Miss You, Shell!!
May 21 2007, 1:59 PM

Shell, that's a wonderful size! We all can only hope to get as lucky as you.





Cynthia
(Login Baste4562)
SENIOR MEMBER
Question for Shell
May 21 2007, 7:20 PM

Hi Shell,

I'm amazed at the progress you've gained. Can I ask what you did to get this gain, and do you have to keep doing it to maintain? Your size now is what I'd like to be. Any advice or instruction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Shell!

Cynthia :o)





shell
(no login)
Re: Miss You, Shell!!
May 21 2007, 10:19 PM

hi cynthia i used natureday to get from A to B cup then i used pm caps,firstly the 500mg ones which did give me growth,but also a blood clot so i switched to st herb with no probs my programme and pics are posted. i am now going to be just massaging and using blossom soap





Fujiapple
(Login Fujiapple)
* * what kind of PM cream...* *
May 22 2007, 12:21 AM

Hi, shell:

What kind of PM cream are you using now? Please advise...

Happy Boobie Growing





shell
(no login)
Re: Miss You, Shell!!
May 22 2007, 11:24 AM

i am using st herb cream





Cynthia
(Login Baste4562)
SENIOR MEMBER
Which pm?
May 22 2007, 3:23 PM

Hi Shell,

Which PM pills did you take? Can you tell me what happened with developing a blood clot? Sounds very scary... Right now I'm using Stherb cream, and blossom soap. I do have growth, but I'd like to try the caps too. Just one a day because I'm on HRT already. Thanks Shell.
Cynthia :o)





shell
(no login)
Re: Miss You, Shell!!
May 24 2007, 11:08 AM

hi yes of course i be pleased to help. the first pm capsules i took were 500mg from pmUK i was taking these for entire month but straight away my period was late by a week then it got later and later each month until i was nearly a whole month late then came the amazing pain in my right calf,never had pain like it .went to docs who took blood tests,2 hours later i at hospitl having anticoagulants injected into my stomach and scan on leg i immediately stopped pm and period came after 3 weeks after leg was back to normal and mensrual cycle back to every 28 days i started on st herb only taking for 15 days each month and never looked back !





Cynthia
(Login Baste4562)
SENIOR MEMBER
No problems with Stherb?
May 24 2007, 2:20 PM

Hi Shell,
Thanks so much. I appreciate the information. So, you never had a problem with the Stherb PM? Do you know if it was the PM from UK that caused the clot, or do you think it was there and going to happen anyway? That had to be the scariest experience ever! Weren't you afraid to start on another PM? I am actually going to start Stherb Pm pills, waiting for them to come in now, and I want to be very sure nothing like that happens to me as I have enough health issues right now. I am no spring chicken either. lol So if there is anything else you can tell me, I'd be glad to listen. :o)

Cynthia





shell
(no login)
Re: Miss You, Shell!!
May 24 2007, 10:57 PM

yes i am sure it was the pm from pmuk that caused the clot the dose was obviously to high to take all month altho i did get some growth with them . i wasnt worried about starting st herb as it only to be taken for 15 days each month,which is what the people at pmuk now advise with theirs plus st herb has such a good reputation





rain20
(no login)
Re: Miss You, Shell!!
May 25 2007, 2:29 AM

I had the problem of swelling and growth on the 15 dys on but shrinkage on the 15 dys off. Did you have this happen? Or do you retain results better the longer you are on the St. Herb? If this happened to you, how long did it take for you to start retaining more of the growth?

I have been on the new Mirifem for the last month and so far not much change, so I was thinking of going back to the St. Herb.

Thanks for your help.

[admin]

blood clots
June 9 2008 at 5:02 AM pm gal (no login)

does anyone know what the symptoms of a blood clot in the leg are? i remember shell (i think?) had a blood clot in her foot.




just passing though
(no login)
Re: blood clots
June 9 2008, 9:27 PM

Symptoms can include:

# swelling,
# pain,
# warm skin,
# tenderness

There may be redness, particularly at the back of your leg, below the knee

Can't think of anything else at the moment but I think these are the main ones. Doesn't mean that there isn't but if you think that there is something, best getting it checked even if it nothing.




Comfy
(Login comfy_chan)
blood clots
June 15 2008, 4:14 AM

I've had those same symptoms, however I injured both my knees as a teenager and frequently get those symptoms. I remember one time a few years, while I was till in college, ago my knee was swollen for like 3 days and I couldn't go anywhere. This was before using PM. Now, after using PM, the symptoms are more frequent so I'm not sure if PM has something to do with it or not.





Tisha
(Login Tisha_mwnci) Re: Blood clots a side effect? October 7 2008, 11:41 PM

I'm not too sure about this.

The risk is higher in those who have had a previous or family history of blood clots, are known to have a blood clotting disorder, smoke or are obese, so perhaps if any of these apply to you, then you should seriously consider trying something else just to be on the safe side.
Sorry I can't be any more help,
Tish x

[Lotus]

Thanks Eve, DVT is a constant threat, awareness is key (timely post).