[Odile]

Actually maybe the problems with herbs and acne is poor digestion. When I was taking, for the last days, white peony and licorice, along with the vitex, I was with gases. I've stopped for 2 days and already have no gases and no new acne spots. I'm considering to start again with peony and licorice in 2 or 3 days to see if the acne and digestion gets worse. Maybe my organism can't digest properly some herbs...

[Odile]

FWIW many have had great success with just massage with coconut or flaxseed oil and noogling. No herbs.

Yeah I know James, maybe I'll have to consider that option for me too. But I always felt some results with vitex. Wondering if I'll just keep only with vitex and pc. But after all, always felt that massage is the key for me. CO externally and internally works great for me, in turn, massage with flax oil makes me breakout on my chest.

[hannah]

A quick update..

I'm taking vitex, white peony, licorice, ginko and not so religiously reishi, for the last days. Along with the birth control pill...And the acne is coming back!!!

I've shown my doctor and she thinks that I should start taking right now isotretinoin, instead of waiting till the winter. I was wondering if I should keep taking spironolactone instead, to DHT control.

I don't really know what herb keeps making me have these acne crises I really want to continue with NBE but the acne is very severe and I can't live with it, I've already have some acne scars, something that I've never had during puberty.

I've already reduced my herbs intake, and I really thought that what was making me have these acne crises was maca or mucuna or bo...or maybe fish oil as Lotus have suggested, but I'm off of these for a long time now.

Anyone has any sugestion? NBE is already a game of patience but having to deal with this severe acne along the path, turns it a lot harder to keep focused and encouraged.

Do you drink milk? Ive read dairy promotes acne

Ella is right(i had acne problems for 1 year, now its solved as long as i do the right things) which is for me: no animal fat,like full fat cream, milk, not too much sugar and cacao. Then dont wash my face with soap..just with lemon or orange juice or apple cider vinegar...only organic otherwise the bumps shoot out off my skin. Dont scrub your face...youll spread the bacteria! And an additional thing not nessecary but it makes my skin softer: astaxanthin...a VERY good anti-androgen and anti-oxidant supplement...if youll take this..dont skip doses bc rising androgens even if andro's are very low might cause you acne too. Especially luteal phase is risky for me to breakout...so AA's are important for me in that phase. Hope this helps...for me this was it. Also bcp caused me trouble for at least one year after stopping it.

Thank you for your answers girls. But actually I don't drink milk or consume milk derivates for a long time. Sugar and cacao, Hannah, I can relate with my acne problems too, when I'm consuming more I see the difference on my skin. I can relate bad digestion with acne too, consuming a lot of flour makes me have problems with digestion, as well as gases, and the acne increases too. About vinegar and lemon it's difficult because I have very sensitive skin as well, with some rosacea, so as in some places it's very oily, in others is very sensitive and dry. Maybe I'll try to apply some organic vinegar that I already have, just on acne spots.

I dk about astaxanthin, but I will definitely search, thanks Hannah. AA's always interest me, ahah. Maybe what I need is to increase anti-andros, but I've already tried with reishi, and CO internaly, as well as white peony, and the acne always comes when I'm on herbs.

My doctor thinks I should start right away with isotretinoin, but I'm considering to stay with spironolactone for a while more to keep the dht low, and see if I can handle the small amount of herbs that I'm taking right now, without having acne breakouts.

Well the vinegar-lemon-oranges i only apply them warm skin and wash it of almostly straight away...and my skin never dries out or turn red and i have a sensitive skin too..with me all the chemical cosmetics out there just build up in the skin promote acne, aging and dryness..now im just totally natural with my skin its cheaper and my skin never looked and felt better.
Personally i tried co. And spearmint as aa's and they never came near the effect of astaxanthine...i swear with the stuff now!!
The last thing i wanted to mention that my acne came after i used the noogleberry..i never saw anything like that on my skin before noogleberry i was 20 and suddenly got acne and bad circulation which is the cause of inflammation.-> veins stretch->valves stop functioning bc of stretched veins..->the whole chambre effect of veins is damaged->blood starts too pool->inflammation occurs. So dont.listen to our James here..mr noogle advocate..hes wrong..the device is dangerous!

[Lotus]

Odile,

The test results are puzzling, we would think that vitex should increase progesterone and lower prolactin. However, the volatile oils (fatty acids) in vitex could be the could be the cause of the acne too. Look everybody reacts differently as we know, and in your case it's quite possible that vitex is also keeping E2 lower while elevating PRL......

I'd get off vitex asap. In fact I'd also suggest stopping " all " herbs for at least one cycle, give your body a chance to normalize and Test again, that's my advice FWIW.

[Odile]

Oldie,

The test results are puzzling, we would think that vitex should increase progesterone and lower prolactin. However, the volatile oils (fatty acids) in vitex could be the could be the cause of the acne too. Look everybody reacts differently as we know, and in your case it's quite possible that vitex is also keeping E2 lower while elevating PRL......

I'd get off vitex asap. In fact I'd also suggest stopping " all " herbs for at least one cycle, give your body a chance to normalize and Test again, that's my advice FWIW.

Hey Lotus, thank's for your input and knowledge as always. Do you think that?! But actually vitex is the only herb or supplement that has ever gave me any results. (PC has given me some too). My best cycle, considering boob plumpness, was on vitex (only during follicular), peony and massage massage massage. I'm on vitex now during follicular and I'm starting to gain plumpness again.

When I've made those blood tests, as well as the others, I was "clean" of herbs, supplements and any medication (for at least 2 cycles). And comparing to my last and first test, my prolactin has decreased a bit since then and my progesterone has increased too. If I'm doing the math right my P:E ratio was 12 last year, and right now is 52. Some people say the range to P:E ratio should be between 20 and 170, and some say it should be no less than 600.

[Shifa]

So i'm starting a new program and i want to share with you as well as future progress.

Just a few lines about my NBE journey. I've started some years ago cycling PM SP FG, but didn't see great results so i lost some motivation and stopped. In the end of last year i've started taking maca to balance hormones, along with some vitamins and DQ but then had to stop because i was always vomiting.

Now, looking for my hormonal board, i'm starting a new program.
Here's my hormonal results.

Hormone || Result || Reference Values

T3 || 1.40 ng/mL || 0.82 - 1.79
T4 free || 1.23 ng/dL || 0.80 - 1.90
TSH || 2.799 mU/L || 0.400 -4.000
Prolactin || 20.4 ng/mL || 3.1 - 25.0
FSH || 5.2 mUI/mL || follicular phase - 3.03 8.0 || ovulatory peak - 2.55 - 16.6 || luteal phase - 1.38 - 5.47
Total testosterone || 56 ng/dL || < 118
Delta-4-androtenediona || 2.39 ng/mL || 0.10 - 2.99
Estradiol || 83 || follicular phase - 20 - 160 || ovulatory peak - 34 - 400 || luteal phase - 27 - 246
Plasmatic cortisol || 12.2 || 5.0 - 25.0
DHEA-S || 79 || 29 - 781

Progesterone wasn't tested so i can't see if i'm estrogen or progesterone dominant, but through this results i can detect that i have low levels of estrogen, low dhea, high prolactin and high androstenedione. So what seems to me is that aromatase is the way to go first, to take advantage of the high levels of androstenedione.

My new program based on this:

* Gaining weight
* Try eating good and organic

* Maca -  To help increase DHEA
* White peony - Promote Aromatase to convert T and Andros into E
* Fenugreek - adaptogenic, prolactin
* Red Reishi - Anti-DHT
*Dong Quai - to promote Progesterone - during luteal (i've taken vitex in the last luteal but still researching so i'll change to DQ this next luteal)
* Amino Acids before bed time

*Massage - coconut oil, sesame oil, macadamia oil

I do take some vitamins. I do not take them all every day.
*Fish oil * Collagen * Vitamin E * Calcium

I do take vitamin E and also sometimes Mucuna Pruriens to decrease a bit the levels of prolactin, as i have already high levels and it can be holding down the levels of E.

It's been hard to gain weight since i've been prone to vomiting for the last months. That's why i'm starting with very low doses of herbs and vitamins this time and then gradually ramp up from there.

Starting point:
1st pic - October 2014 - 50kg (1,62cm)
Didn't make any consistent program between these months.
2nd and 3rd pics - May 2015 - some days after having started this new program - 52kg

Can't wait to start noogling and see the results with this program.



Hey, Do you think i can add white poney toy PM program 

Thanks in advance
 

[Shifa]

So i'm starting a new program and i want to share with you as well as future progress.

Just a few lines about my NBE journey. I've started some years ago cycling PM SP FG, but didn't see great results so i lost some motivation and stopped. In the end of last year i've started taking maca to balance hormones, along with some vitamins and DQ but then had to stop because i was always vomiting.

Now, looking for my hormonal board, i'm starting a new program.
Here's my hormonal results.

Hormone || Result || Reference Values

T3 || 1.40 ng/mL || 0.82 - 1.79
T4 free || 1.23 ng/dL || 0.80 - 1.90
TSH || 2.799 mU/L || 0.400 -4.000
Prolactin || 20.4 ng/mL || 3.1 - 25.0
FSH || 5.2 mUI/mL || follicular phase - 3.03 8.0 || ovulatory peak - 2.55 - 16.6 || luteal phase - 1.38 - 5.47
Total testosterone || 56 ng/dL || < 118
Delta-4-androtenediona || 2.39 ng/mL || 0.10 - 2.99
Estradiol || 83 || follicular phase - 20 - 160 || ovulatory peak - 34 - 400 || luteal phase - 27 - 246
Plasmatic cortisol || 12.2 || 5.0 - 25.0
DHEA-S || 79 || 29 - 781

Progesterone wasn't tested so i can't see if i'm estrogen or progesterone dominant, but through this results i can detect that i have low levels of estrogen, low dhea, high prolactin and high androstenedione. So what seems to me is that aromatase is the way to go first, to take advantage of the high levels of androstenedione.

My new program based on this:

* Gaining weight
* Try eating good and organic

* Maca -  To help increase DHEA
* White peony - Promote Aromatase to convert T and Andros into E
* Fenugreek - adaptogenic, prolactin
* Red Reishi - Anti-DHT
*Dong Quai - to promote Progesterone - during luteal (i've taken vitex in the last luteal but still researching so i'll change to DQ this next luteal)
* Amino Acids before bed time

*Massage - coconut oil, sesame oil, macadamia oil

I do take some vitamins. I do not take them all every day.
*Fish oil * Collagen * Vitamin E * Calcium

I do take vitamin E and also sometimes Mucuna Pruriens to decrease a bit the levels of prolactin, as i have already high levels and it can be holding down the levels of E.

It's been hard to gain weight since i've been prone to vomiting for the last months. That's why i'm starting with very low doses of herbs and vitamins this time and then gradually ramp up from there.

Starting point:
1st pic - October 2014 - 50kg (1,62cm)
Didn't make any consistent program between these months.
2nd and 3rd pics - May 2015 - some days after having started this new program - 52kg

Can't wait to start noogling and see the results with this program.



Hey, Do you think i can add white poney toy PM program 

Thanks in advance
 

One more question, which brand of white peony are you taking?

[Cely]

Odile, you should say in what day of cycle you did your test. 

Prolactin in not hight and you should know it levels depends by the moment when you test it. 
For example, did u test prolactin on morning? Well, it is higher! 
Were you stressed when you did the test? Highter prolactin! 

It’s hard to tell you what to do if you don’t say,for example, “I was in my 3rd day of cycle” 
It’s hard to tell you if u need more estrogens or more progesterone without a progesterone test.

[Cely]

Odile, you should say in what day of cycle you did your test. 

Prolactin in not hight and you should know it levels depends by the moment when you test it. 
For example, did u test prolactin on morning? Well, it is higher! 
Were you stressed when you did the test? Highter prolactin! 

It’s hard to tell you what to do if you don’t say,for example, “I was in my 3rd day of cycle” 
It’s hard to tell you if u need more estrogens or more progesterone without a progesterone test.