[Lotus]

It's the 2/16 alpha-hydroxyestrone pathway that has roughly a 30% increase in breast cancer. Shifting Estradiol into a safer pathway (end metabolites) of 2OHE1 is safer, (w/Indole-3-Carbinol & DIM etc) increase 2OHE1 urinary excretion (that's good a thing).

[EllaC]

It's the 2/16 alpha-hydroxyestrone pathway that has roughly a 30% increase in breast cancer. Shifting Estradiol into a safer pathway (end metabolites) of 2OHE1 is safer, (w/Indole-3-Carbinol & DIM etc) increase 2OHE1 urinary excretion (that's good a thing).

Ok so dim is out because im borderline thyroid issues now due to sibo. Does the Indole 3 act the same as Dim?

Alterntively i wonder if the same effects can be acheived by cruciferous veggies, i eat brocilli alot ( i realise that will affect thyroid too) but i have my transdermal iodine which i use regularly,,,,

[Lotus]

It's the 2/16 alpha-hydroxyestrone pathway that has roughly a 30% increase in breast cancer. Shifting Estradiol into a safer pathway (end metabolites) of 2OHE1 is safer, (w/Indole-3-Carbinol & DIM etc) increase 2OHE1 urinary excretion (that's good a thing).

Ok so dim is out because im borderline thyroid issues now due to sibo. Does the Indole 3 act the same as Dim?

Alterntively i wonder if the same effects can be acheived by cruciferous veggies, i eat brocilli alot ( i realise that will affect thyroid too) but i have my transdermal iodine which i use regularly,,,,

Sure, cruciferous veggies do the same as Indole 3. Although the supplement way takes out having to eat a ton of veggies, either way it's good protection. DIM, as we found out a couple of years ago is also an anti-androgen. So, I think of DIM as a having dual potential (protecting Breasts and inhibiting DHT).


DIM is a strong antiandrogen that inhibited androgen-dependent tumor cell growth and competitively inhibited androgen receptor translocation and signal transduction. In addition, DIM down-regulated prostate-specific antigen (PSA) expression at the transcriptional level. Results from androgen receptor (AR) competitive binding assays, nuclear translocation studies, and structural modeling computations suggest that DIM disrupts AR function in a manner similar to a chemically dissimilar synthetic antiandrogen, Casodex. Our results identify DIM as a structurally novel, naturally occurring, pure androgen antagonist of potential cancer preventive and therapeutic usefulness for prostate cancer.

http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

[SpookyFoxx]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/....html?_r=0

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/201...-retailers

Any thoughts on these findings? Considering it's from 2015, I'm hoping more testing was done and with brand names included instead of just general supplements. It's scary considering so many here are taking saw palmetto and that was found to have little to no herbal ingredients at every location. Makes me wonder if these things happen in "high-quality" supplements sold online and in independent stores.

[LookingForward2NBE]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/....html?_r=0

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/201...-retailers

Any thoughts on these findings? Considering it's from 2015, I'm hoping more testing was done and with brand names included instead of just general supplements. It's scary considering so many here are taking saw palmetto and that was found to have little to no herbal ingredients at every location. Makes me wonder if these things happen in "high-quality" supplements sold online and in independent stores.

Many would like to believe even reputable companies by name can't fall to this but the simple fact of the matter is.. Many many many of the ingredients come from China and India and as I reported a long time back and having personally been there and audited facilities I can tell you.. It's a serious issue and one that is very complex and difficult to deal with. Most companies who fall to bad outcomes may or may not have known what they were buying.. A serious number of ingredient suppliers just flat out lie and provide certificates of analysis claiming they are selling xyz when they are just selling talc, dried teas etc. unless it's a standardized supplement with a full analytical procedure but even then.. Greater then 75% of the companies importing these ingredient do not do analytical tests.. Most just release with a cofa from a supplier organolytic tests. Ie looks like, tastes like.. A In house standard.. And they issue their own cofa with the results from supplier.

I know one company that was selling slicia in a supplement for a hair skin nails formula and put silicon dioxide in it.. sand.. The CEO knew and didn't care. Didn't lie on label but user thought they were buying bio available silica ... Nope. I won't even go into a batch of raspberry ketone from china and the micro load result that arrive and what it took together it to just below allowable amount to get it into a batch., which probably then had within 30d an Unallowable amount but CEO insisted... All legal but way way way not ok IMO and this was a product that sold well over 100,000 units...simply because it would have taken 120d to reship another batch by boat from china. The supplier in China said ok.. I'll send you a new cofa for you. Major eye roll, clueless idiots.

Problem with non standardized natural products is finger printing nIR is near impossible as where a product is grown ie soil and some products like tomatoes for example or have hundreds of varieties so unless the company only buys from one supplier and ensures it's the same plant and that supplier doesn't buy from other farms or open market it's near impossible to finger print it for testing. Good for synthetic.. Not so for natural raw plants.

I know GNC had a few companies that failed label claim, and some of the companies were shocked and blamed their manufacturers but it's not that simple.. To get oharmaceutical level quality would cause supp prices to rise dramatically, would limit choice on shelves and ruin the industry very fast.

For example, to just transfer a hplc test method to FDA quality could cost about 25,000.. Each run would cost about 1,500 for each lot imported.. That just 1 test.. Micro testing another 800, physical tests another 200.. Per ingredient!

So a small to medium size company could spend let's say 50-100,000 to just to import and test 3-4 ingredients and then spend 5,000 for each import per year. If they sell 10,000 bottles which is a lot for small to medium size company.. That $10 per bottle just in testing.. Add in cost of ingredients, cost of manufacturing and shipping to a retailer... Plus the 50-100% markup.. Let alone marketing cost, staff, iliability insurance etc.. The test would represent easily the single most expensive part of a product and hence why many just go the cofa route and organolytic testing.. Or sups would cost 2x as much if not more. Granted, most would use the ingredient in multiple products to offset costs and economies of scale etc so the costs would be spread over a number of products. Realistically, an end user has no way of knowing.. I can recommend a few brands I know that do the testing but I don't want to seem to be linked to them so would rather not. That's one of the reason it's important to buy standardized ingredients, higher purity.. Not a dehydrated one.. Ie 4:1 or 10:1 extract which is just a dehydrated herb.. But something like 80% active ingredient from plant xyz. Significantly more expensive but significantly higher assurance. If you but just simple raw plant.. Honestly, it's luck of the draw if you are getting what you pay for..and the company you buy from May have no idea that they didn't sell you what they put on the label.

For example, dried cucumber powder vs dried eggplant powder.. Good luck.. Import companies just hope that China or India don't lie on the cofa when they say it's cucumber..it could just be rice flour.. And often is.. Or cheap powder gelatin... Usually what they provide is harmless but equally not effective as a result.

[EllaC]

Hey Lotus...
Where are you?
Anyway can you tell me what you think of this?
I understood unless done right wild yam cream promotes estrogen? Can you advise...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/health-beauty/n...317704.htm

Thank you (miss ya)

[Lotus]

Hey Lotus...
Where are you?
Anyway can you tell me what you think of this?
I understood unless done right wild yam cream promotes estrogen? Can you advise...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/health-beauty/n...317704.htm

Thank you (miss ya)

Polo, qui io sono 

I've looked at WY, my conclusion was mucous membrane application is most effective over skin application (which can result in dermal fatigue at variable concentrations).....not what you want. Meaning the highs and lows of emotions......(vaginal/rectal is an even delivery to hormones/tissues).

Product wise, I'd look for reputable dealers (w/lots of customer reviews +/-). Also, check for micronized product (from the squirrel).

  (miss ya too babe)

L.

[EllaC]

Hey Lotus...
Where are you?
Anyway can you tell me what you think of this?
I understood unless done right wild yam cream promotes estrogen? Can you advise...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/health-beauty/n...317704.htm

Thank you (miss ya)

Polo, qui io sono 

I've looked at WY, my conclusion was mucous membrane application is most effective over skin application (which can result in dermal fatigue at variable concentrations).....not what you want. Meaning the highs and lows of emotions......(vaginal/rectal is an even delivery to hormones/tissues).

Product wise, I'd look for reputable dealers (w/lots of customer reviews +/-). Also, check for micronized product (from the squirrel).

  (miss ya too babe)

L.

Thanks love

[hannah]

Hey Lotus...
Where are you?
Anyway can you tell me what you think of this?
I understood unless done right wild yam cream promotes estrogen? Can you advise...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/health-beauty/n...317704.htm

Thank you (miss ya)

Polo, qui io sono 

I've looked at WY, my conclusion was mucous membrane application is most effective over skin application (which can result in dermal fatigue at variable concentrations).....not what you want. Meaning the highs and lows of emotions......(vaginal/rectal is an even delivery to hormones/tissues).

Product wise, I'd look for reputable dealers (w/lots of customer reviews +/-). Also, check for micronized product (from the squirrel).

  (miss ya too babe)

L.

Thanks love

Hey Lotus, nice to see you here. Should we use progesterone cream or pm cream in our mucous membrames too? Isnt that harmful for "the harmony" down there?:$

[Lotus]

Hi Hannah, (good to hear from you). 

See if this sounds familiar, after initially starting progesterone therapy the benefits fade a short time later. 

This study illustrates what I was saying about inconsistency of skin application:
 
Percutaneous progesterone delivery via cream or gel application in postmenopausal women: a randomized cross-over study of progesterone levels in serum, whole blood, saliva, and capillary blood.
Randomized controlled trial
Du JY, et al. Menopause. 2013.
Show full citation
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: This study aims to investigate the distribution of progesterone in venous whole blood, venous serum, fingertip capillary blood, and saliva after its topical application in both cream and gel formulations.
METHODS: Ten postmenopausal women were randomized to receive 80 mg of progesterone cream or gel applied daily for 14 days, crossing over after a 14-day washout. On the last day of each treatment period, venous blood, fingertip capillary blood, and saliva were sampled frequently for 24 hours after the final application.
RESULTS: After progesterone cream or gel application, serum progesterone levels rose gradually, reaching a peak at 9 and 8 hours, respectively; AUC(0-24) h was significantly higher with cream (12.39 vs 8.32 ng h mL(-1), P = 0.0391). Whole venous blood levels followed a pattern similar to that of serum but were considerably lower. Saliva progesterone showed a peak at 1 and 6 hours after cream and gel application, respectively, and C(max) was comparable with cream and gel. Saliva AUC(0-24) h was substantially higher than the corresponding area under the curve for serum or whole blood but did not differ significantly by delivery method (39.02 and 58.37 ng h mL(-1), P = 0.69). In capillary blood, C(max) was reached at the same time (8 h) and was similar with both formulations; AUC(0-24) h was also similar with both formulations (1,056 ng h mL(-1) for cream and 999 ng h mL(-1) for gel) but was dramatically higher than the corresponding areas under the curve for venous serum and whole blood.
CONCLUSIONS: After application of topical progesterone, saliva and capillary blood levels are approximately 10-fold and 100-fold greater, respectively, than those seen in serum or whole blood. High capillary blood and saliva levels indicate high absorption and transport of progesterone to tissues. Reliance on serum levels of progesterone for monitoring topical dose could lead to underestimation of tissue levels and consequent overdose.
PMID 23652031 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
This is from dr. mercola: 
If you apply the cream to your mucous epithelial membranes that line your uterus and vagina you obtain a virtually ideal administration system. Not only is absorption through these membranes more complete than through your skin, but hormones absorbed through your vaginal membranes enter the very same pelvic plexus of veins that your ovaries normally empty into. From here the hormones are carried to your heart and lungs and distributed to your tissues just as if your ovary had actually produced them.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...tions.aspx

This news report lists a meta analysis report indicting the safety results of epithelial delivery. As always do your homework and contact your doctor for professional assessment. 

Vaginal progesterone safe and effective in preventing preterm birth
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2011121...birth.aspx