[Neverloosehope]

Ok,

After many years of being unsuccessful, I finally understood how my body works.
and with the help of Lotus who hinted me that I might have PCOS after I posted my blood test.  (High prolactine and cortisol + low progesterone)
I researched a lot and put NBE on pause.

I think I will try NBE again, but in any case I feel much better now that I made all these adjustments in my life:

• PCOS is usually characterised by - but not only -  high androgens (testosterone) ====> But we know that testosterone prevents NBE
  
• PCOS women tend to have low Vitamin D3 levels =====> But we know that Vitamin D3 helps with the production of IFG-1 (from the Growth Hormone family which is required for NBE)
  
• PCOS women tend to have Insulin resistance (the body pumps more insulin because you are not sensitive to it) and we know that insulin act as a seesaw with Growth hormone (when Insulin in high/GH is low) ====> But you need Growth Hormone for NBE
  
• PCOS women suffer more from anxiety and depression (can cause stress and increase cortisol) 
  
• We know that high cortisol deplete your progesterone level ======> But you need Progesterone for NBE
  

So PCOS women - I am excited to announce that I did manage to reverse my PCOS with diet - I did the test and I nearly halved my testosterone levels and Increased by 1/3 my Vitamin D3 levels:

What I did, please note that this is not an NBE programme, but this helped me to feel 1 million times healthier, balanced my hormones and gave me a good starting point for NBE:

• Supplement with Vitamin D3 spray, I use this: http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/betteryou-dlux-3000-vitamin-d-oral-spray-60012895?skuid=012895&&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CjwKEAiAz4XFBRCW87vj6-28uFMSJAAHeGZb6X7XB-lyLNwNPCp9JClGvhU7CDkK70xv_jGjfFqJpRoCkXXw_wcB
  
• I take 500mg of sea Magnesium before bed (muscle relaxant, will improve the quality of your sleep which will boost GH production
  
• Take Vitamin C for my adrenal and help Cortisol production (no need to steal from the progesterone no more)
  
• Changed my diet: Low carbs I have 1 slice of wholemeal toast in the morning with eggs and for the the other meals veggies + protein and nuts for snacks (the first 3 days will be hard but if you accept it and go over them you will no longer have cravings)
  
• I avoid snacking as much as possible (Remember, high insulin - which is produced as soon as you eat means low Growth Hormone!)
  
• Relax Relax Relax to decrease cortisol - get your nails done, walk in nature, get a massage, have sex with your partner, cuddle your pet, draw, listen to music, rest in the jacuzzi like a piece of carrot in a soup....everything that relaxes you and get plenty of it.
  

My diet had the biggest impact - I implore you to start this, prep your body for NBE.
Now i even feel more ready and committed to start a programme because i feel better mentally. 

Do not underestimate the fact that your hormones affects your mood and state of mind and therefore your behaviour and therefore your personality.


Please let me know if you have any questions or want the details of my test - i will soon start NBE again and will post a diary here but even if it doesn't work I feel great and much more confident !

xx, NLH

[bettie32]

That is some great advice! Thank you for sharing this useful info with us. 


Sometimes I wonder if ladies who have PCOS tend to have smaller breasts but I actually have a few friends who have PCOS and they are well endowed. 
Do you think it's possible to have PCOS with no cysts in the ovaries and regular periods? Last year I went for a check up and the Dr. told me that my cysts were completely gone. She said I don't have to worry about it anymore as I'm cured (or actually that the situation "is under control"). Yet, my testosterone levels tend to be high and I'm not exactly fuzz free if you know what I mean! 
I'm interested in taking magnesium, especially after reading your post, but I read somewhere that it's good for women who are estrogen dominant. That's worrying me, as I'm definitely not estrogen dominant (might be the opposite!). What are your thoughts?

[solome]

this is great information, nlh. i learn so much, here. i’ve always been on the more trim or athletic side. my metabolism always seems to be hot and burning up calories. also, it’s funny but when we’re in the womb, our little bodies are formed and i guess, a certain amount of fat cells end up here and fewer there. i’ve wondered before about that. most of my fat cells are on my rear end and some on my breasts. i’ve wondered if i had been born with more breast fat cells, would it be easier to gain volume. i think i should stop snacking. i have a pretty good diet. the one thing in my life that has managed to put weight on me is oatmeal. maybe, it’s just so calorie dense or that the quality of grain carbs has some magic for me. one of the things i do at home is grow wheatgrass. it’s so healthy for you. and it's easy. i don’t know what it’s doing for my breasts, though. i wish i had a thicker layer of fat on my legs. i also wonder about taking in too many high quality phytoestrogens ..i mean, my endogenous estrogen is so much more powerful ..i’ve wondered if i should save most of my phytoestrogens for luteal. maybe, i should stop wondering so much. so much to learn. thx, nlh.  hi bettie

[Neverloosehope]

That is some great advice! Thank you for sharing this useful info with us. 


Sometimes I wonder if ladies who have PCOS tend to have smaller breasts but I actually have a few friends who have PCOS and they are well endowed. 
Do you think it's possible to have PCOS with no cysts in the ovaries and regular periods? Last year I went for a check up and the Dr. told me that my cysts were completely gone. She said I don't have to worry about it anymore as I'm cured (or actually that the situation "is under control"). Yet, my testosterone levels tend to be high and I'm not exactly fuzz free if you know what I mean! 
I'm interested in taking magnesium, especially after reading your post, but I read somewhere that it's good for women who are estrogen dominant. That's worrying me, as I'm definitely not estrogen dominant (might be the opposite!). What are your thoughts?

Hi Bettie,

About your PCOS friends - are they overweight ? (PCOS girl tend to be overweight - I read 95%)
I am myself quite slim - you can google 'lean PCOS' to have more info.

It think it is possible - I don't have cysts and my periods are regular, however I used to have cysts on the ovaries and was 'let go' after the doc said it was common although painful. A few years later, I had a scan and they were gone. But I still have PCOS.

Regarding your dominance, it can be a 'relative dominance' i.e. low oestrogen with even lower progesterone, but you can also have normal oestrogen with lower progesterone. It all depends and I think you should get tested to be absolutely sure - All the girls here will tell you how important this is. 

My mother had PCOS so I know where I got it from: Please see the link below about hormone profile and fat distribution along with a quote from it:
https://www.metaboliceffect.com/emale-ef...-patterns/

'Women usually have smaller waists and more fat storage on the hips, thighs, and breasts. Estrogen and progesterone have much to do with this. Estrogen is largely responsible for greater fat storage around the hips and thighs while both estrogen and progesterone impact larger breasts'

I can only speak for myself but I think that SEA magnesium is good to take in any case since it helps you sleep and lower the stress hormone cortisol 

Have a read through this, but if you have PCOS, the odds are, you are oestro dominant and should aim to increase progesterone - which magnesium will help with (since it decrease cortisol avoiding the progesterone 'steal' from cortisol). But make sure you test and make your decision !

Hope this helps

[Neverloosehope]

this is great information, nlh. i learn so much, here. i’ve always been on the more trim or athletic side. my metabolism always seems to be hot and burning up calories. also, it’s funny but when we’re in the womb, our little bodies are formed and i guess, a certain amount of fat cells end up here and fewer there. i’ve wondered before about that. most of my fat cells are on my rear end and some on my breasts. i’ve wondered if i had been born with more breast fat cells, would it be easier to gain volume. i think i should stop snacking. i have a pretty good diet. the one thing in my life that has managed to put weight on me is oatmeal. maybe, it’s just so calorie dense or that the quality of grain carbs has some magic for me. one of the things i do at home is grow wheatgrass. it’s so healthy for you. and it's easy. i don’t know what it’s doing for my breasts, though. i wish i had a thicker layer of fat on my legs. i also wonder about taking in too many high quality phytoestrogens ..i mean, my endogenous estrogen is so much more powerful ..i’ve wondered if i should save most of my phytoestrogens for luteal. maybe, i should stop wondering so much. so much to learn. thx, nlh.  hi bettie

Hey Solome,

Fat distribution is dictated by hormones, and obviously your hormone profile is somehow inherited (my mum have PCOS also). But your sleep, exercise and DIET allow you to 'CORRECT' your hormones profile to some extent. 

The human body adapts itself so quickly when you feed it properly according to your goal.

I shall invite you to read this article. It is about hormones and fat distribution, and also about diet.

https://www.metaboliceffect.com/emale-ef...-patterns/ 

Keep me posted on your progress, xx

[bettie32]

Hi Bettie,

About your PCOS friends - are they overweight ? (PCOS girl tend to be overweight - I read 95%)
I am myself quite slim - you can google 'lean PCOS' to have more info.

It think it is possible - I don't have cysts and my periods are regular, however I used to have cysts on the ovaries and was 'let go' after the doc said it was common although painful. A few years later, I had a scan and they were gone. But I still have PCOS.

Regarding your dominance, it can be a 'relative dominance' i.e. low oestrogen with even lower progesterone, but you can also have normal oestrogen with lower progesterone. It all depends and I think you should get tested to be absolutely sure - All the girls here will tell you how important this is. 

My mother had PCOS so I know where I got it from: Please see the link below about hormone profile and fat distribution along with a quote from it:
https://www.metaboliceffect.com/emale-ef...-patterns/

'Women usually have smaller waists and more fat storage on the hips, thighs, and breasts. Estrogen and progesterone have much to do with this. Estrogen is largely responsible for greater fat storage around the hips and thighs while both estrogen and progesterone impact larger breasts'

I can only speak for myself but I think that SEA magnesium is good to take in any case since it helps you sleep and lower the stress hormone cortisol 

Have a read through this, but if you have PCOS, the odds are, you are oestro dominant and should aim to increase progesterone - which magnesium will help with (since it decrease cortisol avoiding the progesterone 'steal' from cortisol). But make sure you test and make your decision !

Hope this helps

Thank you Neverloosehope, for the informative link too.

A couple of my friends who have PCOS are actually almost skinny. The others are pretty average, I'd say. I'm also average. I do have a a bit of a belly and my thighs aren't pencil thin, but I'm not curvy. I'm more of a "rectangle".

That's interesting. So it's like I thought, cysts can "recede" but you can still have PCOS. 

I haven't tested in quite a while but every time I used to, my testosterone was higher than normal. Many years ago, the pill (Yaz) was prescribed to me and I remember my hormone levels balanced out. I stopped taking it though; I want to avoid taking hormones. This is why I find your method very interesting. 

I'm more than certain that my testosterone is still on the high side. This is why I'm drinking spearmint tea. I think magnesium could only do good though so will look into it.  Thank you again!

Hi Solome! Very true, there's so much to learn....

[Lotus]

Ok,

After many years of being unsuccessful, I finally understood how my body works.
and with the help of Lotus who hinted me that I might have PCOS after I posted my blood test.  (High prolactine and cortisol + low progesterone)
I researched a lot and put NBE on pause.

I think I will try NBE again, but in any case I feel much better now that I made all these adjustments in my life:

• PCOS is usually characterised by - but not only -  high androgens (testosterone) ====> But we know that testosterone prevents NBE
  
• PCOS women tend to have low Vitamin D3 levels =====> But we know that Vitamin D3 helps with the production of IFG-1 (from the Growth Hormone family which is required for NBE)
  
• PCOS women tend to have Insulin resistance (the body pumps more insulin because you are not sensitive to it) and we know that insulin act as a seesaw with Growth hormone (when Insulin in high/GH is low) ====> But you need Growth Hormone for NBE
  
• PCOS women suffer more from anxiety and depression (can cause stress and increase cortisol) 
  
• We know that high cortisol deplete your progesterone level ======> But you need Progesterone for NBE
  

So PCOS women - I am excited to announce that I did manage to reverse my PCOS with diet - I did the test and I nearly halved my testosterone levels and Increased by 1/3 my Vitamin D3 levels:

What I did, please note that this is not an NBE programme, but this helped me to feel 1 million times healthier, balanced my hormones and gave me a good starting point for NBE:

• Supplement with Vitamin D3 spray, I use this: http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/betteryou-dlux-3000-vitamin-d-oral-spray-60012895?skuid=012895&&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CjwKEAiAz4XFBRCW87vj6-28uFMSJAAHeGZb6X7XB-lyLNwNPCp9JClGvhU7CDkK70xv_jGjfFqJpRoCkXXw_wcB
  
• I take 500mg of sea Magnesium before bed (muscle relaxant, will improve the quality of your sleep which will boost GH production
  
• Take Vitamin C for my adrenal and help Cortisol production (no need to steal from the progesterone no more)
  
• Changed my diet: Low carbs I have 1 slice of wholemeal toast in the morning with eggs and for the the other meals veggies + protein and nuts for snacks (the first 3 days will be hard but if you accept it and go over them you will no longer have cravings)
  
• I avoid snacking as much as possible (Remember, high insulin - which is produced as soon as you eat means low Growth Hormone!)
  
• Relax Relax Relax to decrease cortisol - get your nails done, walk in nature, get a massage, have sex with your partner, cuddle your pet, draw, listen to music, rest in the jacuzzi like a piece of carrot in a soup....everything that relaxes you and get plenty of it.
  

My diet had the biggest impact - I implore you to start this, prep your body for NBE.
Now i even feel more ready and committed to start a programme because i feel better mentally. 

Do not underestimate the fact that your hormones affects your mood and state of mind and therefore your behaviour and therefore your personality.


Please let me know if you have any questions or want the details of my test - i will soon start NBE again and will post a diary here but even if it doesn't work I feel great and much more confident !

xx, NLH

I like this (your) revolution on PCOS NLH. Vitamin D3 spray is an interesting option indeed (over oral supplementation). 

good luck...I hope   for continued success. Try sliced avocados on the toast & eggs a few times a week, it's nutrient and fat composition fits nicely with NBE.

[bettie32]

I've been taking magnesium for several days and it does seem to have a calming effect, but the more I'm reading about it, the more I'm realizing that it raises testosterone! Will I start growing a beard or something?? 

As per this article, magnesium, vitamin D and other supplements clearly increase testosterone:

https://www.anabolicmen.com/free-testost...pplements/

Many women who have PCOS tend to suffer from hirsutism (linked to high testosterone) so this definitely won't help (in my case). It's such a shame because I liked the other benefits from taking magnesium!!

[Neverloosehope]

I've been taking magnesium for several days and it does seem to have a calming effect, but the more I'm reading about it, the more I'm realizing that it raises testosterone! Will I start growing a beard or something?? 

As per this article, magnesium, vitamin D and other supplements clearly increase testosterone:

https://www.anabolicmen.com/free-testost...pplements/

Many women who have PCOS tend to suffer from hirsutism (linked to high testosterone) so this definitely won't help (in my case). It's such a shame because I liked the other benefits from taking magnesium!!

That's a shame Bettie, As for me, my testosterone decreased quite significantly - from 8.7 to 4.9 mg/l - which got me out of the PCOS range whilst taking magnesium. In the same time I took vitamin D3 that literally increased by 1/3 and my testosterone still decreased. 

I guess the biggest indicator for if it is for you or not is if you feel better when taking it - It might mean that you need it if you are 'structurally' deficient in this vitamin/mineral.

I guess it does not have the same effect on a PCOS or normal healthy body - If you can get a test done to make sure you are heading in the right direction. You might not need anything? Please see the articles below

I can confirm I have no beard lol but my skin is much clearer and hair (on my head) is thicker so don't worry about this !!! lol

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4669857/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22500844
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4488802/

[Lotus]

The bottom line is that vitamin D is a potent aromatase, this is most likely why you feel fullness. 

Vitamin D3 may indirectly affect cAMP production from PGE1 by 5x, in other words, this (D3) will help upregulate aromatase. 

1,25DIHYDROXYCHOLECALCIFEROL INDUCES AN INCREASE IN PGE 1 - AND FORSKOLIN-STIMULATED CYCLICAMP PRODUCTION IN T47D HUMAN BREAST CANCER CELL LINE
ABSTRACT — The effect of 1, 25-dihydroxycholecalciferol [1, 25(OH)2 D3], the active form of vitamin D3, on cell growth, clonogenicity, and cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) production was examined in human breast cancer cell line T47D. 1,25(OH)2 D3 markedly inhibited proliferation of T47D cells in a time- and concentration-dependent manner. 1,25(OH)2 D3 5 times 10−7 reduced to 70% [3H]thymidine incorporation into DNA. Specific high affinity nuclear receptors for 1,25(OH)2 D3 were present in this cell line. The cAMP produced by T47D cells was measured during 10 min stimulation by effectors (prostaglandin E1 or forskolin). Without effector, T47D cells produced similar amounts of cAMP in control and 1,25(OH)2 D3-treated cells. After 3 days in the presence of 1,25(OH)2 D3, cAMP production was significantly increased compared to control cells when stimulated by 10−4 M prostaglandin E1 or 5 times 10−7 M forskolin (3.2- and 2.4-fold increase, respectively). This cAMP increase was concentration dependent within the same range that inhibited cell growth and clonogenicity. These results suggest that 1,25(OH)2 D3 may indirectly affect cAMP production by modulating the target cell response to stimulatory agents of cAMP production.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/..._CELL_LINE

vitamin D analogs significantly upregulated E2- and DHT-induced CK response. These analogs upregulated the CK response to selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs). An estrogenic response (from vitamin D) is seen in the intestinal tract. Vitamin D also helps with hair growth.
http://www.howtomakeyourhairgrowfast.net...rowth.html


Interaction Between Estrogen and Vitamin D–Endocrine System: A Potential Addition to the Unitary Model of Osteoporosis
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.13....1954/full

Vitamin D modulation of the activity of estrogenic compounds in bone cells in vitro and in vivo.
Somjen D1.
Author information
Abstract
Vitamin D analogs modulate different organs, including modulation of energy metabolism, through the induction of creatine kinase (CK) activity. Skeletal organs from vitamin D-depleted rats showed lower constituent CK than those from vitamin D-replete rats. Moreover, estradiol-17beta (E2) or dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which increased CK in organs from intact female or male rats, respectively, stimulated much less CK in vitamin D-depleted rats. Treatment of intact female rats with noncalcemic vitamin D analogs significantly upregulated E2- and DHT-induced CKresponse. These analogs upregulated the CK response to selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) in organs from intact or ovariectomized (Ovx) female rats but abolished SERMs' inhibitory effect on E2-induced CK. These analogs significantly increased estradiol receptor alpha (ERalpha) protein in skeletal organs as well as histomorphological and biochemical changes due to this treatment followed by E2 or DHT. The analogs alone markedly altered the growth plate and the trabeculae and increased trabecular bone volume (%TB V) and trabecular width. The addition of E2 or DHT to this treatment restored all parameters as well as increased %TBV and cell proliferation. Treatment of Ovx female rats with JK 1624 F2-2 (JKF) decreased growth-plate width and increased %TB V, whereas QW1624 F2-2 (QW) restored growth-plate width and %TB V. Treatment of E2 with JKF restored %TBV and growth-plate width, whereas E2 with QW restored all parameters, including cortical width. There was also upregulation of the response of CK to E2 in both combined treatments. Our human-derived osteoblast (hObs)-like cell cultures respond to estrogenic compounds, and pretreating them with JKF upregulated the CK response to E2, raloxifene (Ral), and some phytoestrogens. ERalpha and ERbeta proteins, as well as mRNA, were modulated by CB 1093 (CB) and JKF. JKF increased specific nuclear E2 binding in female hObs but inhibited specific membranal E2 binding. hObs express 25 hydroxyvitamin D3-1alpha hydroxylase (1-OHase)-mRNA and its biological activity, which are both modulated by parathyroid hormone (PTH) and estrogenic compounds. Our results demonstrate mutual interaction between vitamin D and estrogenic compounds. We therefore conclude that combined treatment with less-calcemic analogs of vitamin D and estrogenic compounds might be superior for treatment of bone damage caused by ovariectomy in female rats, with possible application for postmenopausal osteoporosis.
PMID: 17725484 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17725484