[wagon train]

Absolutely! It will be very exciting with the three of us all starting GB around the same time to see what we do differently with it and what successes we find! Almost like were doing our own little case study! Pretty exciting :

Ashley8 also is taking GB although last time we spoke she was writing up a program of her own using a couple different formulas and plans. 

I am keeping a detailed log of my progress and what i'm doing and once I get a good couple months under my belt I'll be posting a bit more on my personal thread.  I keep going back and forth on whether I should cycle or not but I ordered a few more herbs and I think I've officially decided to attempt the cycle. A big reason is because I've been experiencing some side effects I got from my combo pill which is heightened anxiety and heart racing/palpitations that I BELIEVE the estrogen causes. I'm hoping that by cycling things and also amplifying my other hormones that I won't have those symptoms anymore. We'll see! I'll probably continue flip flopping but I bought the herbs to cycle so I'm gonna use them! Here's a link to Lady-D's pdf 
http://breast.is/ebook/breast-enhancement.pdf

and I'm about to post on my program what my plans are for using that info!

[---]

Absolutely! It will be very exciting with the three of us all starting GB around the same time to see what we do differently with it and what successes we find! Almost like were doing our own little case study! Pretty exciting :

Ashley8 also is taking GB although last time we spoke she was writing up a program of her own using a couple different formulas and plans. 

I am keeping a detailed log of my progress and what i'm doing and once I get a good couple months under my belt I'll be posting a bit more on my personal thread.  I keep going back and forth on whether I should cycle or not but I ordered a few more herbs and I think I've officially decided to attempt the cycle. A big reason is because I've been experiencing some side effects I got from my combo pill which is heightened anxiety and heart racing/palpitations that I BELIEVE the estrogen causes. I'm hoping that by cycling things and also amplifying my other hormones that I won't have those symptoms anymore. We'll see! I'll probably continue flip flopping but I bought the herbs to cycle so I'm gonna use them! Here's a link to Lady-D's pdf 
http://breast.is/ebook/breast-enhancement.pdf

and I'm about to post on my program what my plans are for using that info!

I've tried reading that pdf before and the cycling process she suggests is really involved and also a little hard for me to understand. I think it would have been better if there was a chart that detailed an exact plan of what to take on what days of your cycle, because trying to read it and comprehend it boggles my mind a bit, lol. But I'm looking forward to seeing how you incorporate this into your regimen, and maybe after you post it on your program with details I will understand it better!! 

<3

[bettie32]

I THINK I'VE FOUND THE ANSWER!

So I was talking to Bettie and she mentioned something that got my wheels turning and after further research, I think I've finally figured this whole reasoning behind cycling herbs, or at least enough to where it's not so much as a mystery anymore. The analogy she gave me was the Birth Control Pill. If you ever been on it, you know that there is a short period of where you take placebo pills or essentially sugar pills with no hormones in it. When she mentioned this, it was almost as if instantly someone turned on a light switch and brought me out of the dark on this topic. 

From my understanding, because BCP introduces such a high and concentrated amount of hormones into your system, if you don't take that short break from taking the active hormone pills (by taking the placebo pills) then you either won't have your period or will experience irregular shortened periods or spotting. This is because your body goes through natural phases where three key hormones fall and rise in a predictable and specific pattern. During menstruation, typically estrogen is at it's lowest, as well as progesterone. (Testosterone is also low during this time, but it tends to remain low and only rise during that latter of week 2 during a 28 day cycle). I remember reading how some girls who didn't want to have their periods would skip the placebo and go straight on to the next pack of active pills. I even think my own doctor encouraged me to do this at one point because I suffer from dysmenorrhea (read: excruciating and debilitating periods which I have learned through experience how to naturally control to an extent) and she thought it would be a good solution for it, but I never did because I didn't know if that was entirely safe (even though my doc at the time did say that it was perfectly safe as long as every three months I give myself a break and allow my period to come). 

But yeah, so the basic point is that with strong herbs like PM or even with high dosage of certain herbs, if you didn't cycle there's a good chance that it will delay or halt your period completely. And according to some doctors, this doesn't pose a big health risk (from what I have researched), but most women want to remain some sort of regularity with their menstrual cycle and others want to not have to worry about being pregnant. So I guess that is where the whole idea of cycling herbs must have erupted from, but then it must have whirled out of control from there. But plain and simple, the reason for cycling stronger herbs is to avoid messing up your menstrual cycles while also prolonging the positive effect of estrogenic herbs by switching to and rotating weaker phytoestrogens.

So more to the point: cycling can be beneficial if necessary, though it's not always necessary (depends on what you're taking and how much of it you're taking. It doesn't have to be a complicated process, but I did find that others have adopted more involved cycling plans. 

Here is an example of a simpler version/beginner's guide to cycling herbs using PM: Start taking PM pills on either the first day of your menstrual cycle or the first Sunday after your menstrual cycle begins and take it for 3 weeks straight and then give yourself a 1 week break before starting again. See, kind of like BCP if you think about it. During that break week, you can either take nothing or you could take lower dosages or a different blend of weaker herbs or supplements that won't interfere with your menstrual cycle. You could also take certain supplements for the entire duration of the month right along with PM and also during your week break (like collagen or something like that for example that will not pose any interference with your period).

Another method that is a little more involved but still a relatively simple version is monitoring your follicular and luteal phases (there are various ways to do this, but just look online to know how). During the follicular phase is when you want to take the strong herbs like PM, and during the luteal phase you want to take a less powerful blend of herbs/phytoestrogens. Once again, this seems more about allowing your body to have a natural menstrual cycle by creating some type of a balance with your hormones, than anything else, but it may also work synergistically with your body in other ways too. 

So, there you have it. This is what I've uncovered so far, and I'm glad that I finally understand cycling herbs a bit more. I might not have everything right, so please correct me if I've gotten anything wrong, and also let me know if this helps to clear things up a bit. 

Xoxo


If you're interested in reading more about how hormones fall and rise during your cycle, here is a good link: http://hormonehoroscope.com/the-female-hormone-cycle/

All right, high five Zara!  I may have switched on the button for you but you are shedding all the light! I really like how you explained this perfectly, in an easy-to-understand manner. This important topic was (strangely and surprisingly) missing on the forum - I've been trying to find out more about cycling all over the place - so I'm really glad you started this thread and elaborated upon the matter. This is something fundamental for NBE, so many ladies take herbs or are interested in taking them and I'm sure many are going to find this useful. <3

[---]

All right, high five Zara!  I may have switched on the button for you but you are shedding all the light! I really like how you explained this perfectly, in an easy-to-understand manner. This important topic was (strangely and surprisingly) missing on the forum - I've been trying to find out more about cycling all over the place - so I'm really glad you started this thread and elaborated upon the matter. This is something fundamental for NBE, so many ladies take herbs or are interested in taking them and I'm sure many are going to find this useful. <3

Thank you, Bettie! I seriously would have never figured this out without you. Oh how I do love our chats! We tend to uncover a lot because of our inquisitive nature! And I agree that this was an important and needed topic that needed to be elaborated on and broken down in simple terms. So glad I could help do that!! <3

[EllaC]

Thank you for always posting your findings so eloquently! I am going to be combining Lady-D's botanical program cyclying suggestions with my greenbrush regimen, because I took greenbrush non stop and I had a 37 day cycle which was insane compared to my previously 16 day cycles. Again as we've discussed it's probably my body leveling out from other things but I think you're point makes a lot of sense in my situation! 

And just as an update for the greenbrush, when I finally started bleeding I noticed I lost a bit of fullness in my breast but it is still so much heavier than it was a month ago when I started herbs. And this was even only taking greenbrush for two weeks and taking a 5 day break within them!

I'm so glad my explanation helped, Arwen and thank you so much for commenting and talking about this with me! I also edited my comment to include more info as well as a link, in case you wanted to see that. But see, this is why I think it's better to know not just how to do something, but also why to do it, because it actually might turn out to be beneficial for you in your case! I think it's also good for everyone to know, because for me personally, if I have this problem of a delay in my cycle I want to know how to fix it, and this could be key for many others as well. 

I'm not so sure if I will cycle Greenbush just yet, but because of your experience with it, I think I might (I should be recieving it in the mail tomorrow!!) I think what I will end up doing is take lower dosages for my luteal phase. I first will have to see how it works out, but yeah, I'm so happy I finally figured this mystery out! lol

Oh and do keep us posted on your page because I want to follow your journey! Also, could you post an update of how you plan on using Lady-D's program to cycle with Greenbrush! I'm so happy for all your success with it, and I can't wait to join you on this!!

Xoxo

I tried to cancel my Greenbush order but sadly too late they have already sent it.
I am tentatively using up my old extract blend (expires dec this year) but is essentially Full!
I have had some slight concerning symptons ie funny head, spacy blood pressure type reactions... I emailed Joel at Greenbush. He replied the following:
The herbs don't cause

blood pressure problems.  They are actually quite good for your
health.  They balance hormone levels.  As you continue with them you
should notice improvements in your general health.  Keep us posted on
how things are going.
I expected no less than this answer. Theres no scientific reference of course. 
NOW on day 3 if not 4 i have ovulated and normally Id be experiencing much bigger boobs and hell pain right about now but havent... This is a good sign at a guess although i welcome my monthly painful bigger boobs  

But again girls start slow! My first periods after starting GB years ago where horrendously heavy, hemoraging type thing... I too jumped in pills and extracts and maybe even the tea! So start slow and work up and keep an eye out for any blood sugar type reactions . Fenugreek is good for diabetes etc but those of you who know me know what fenugreek and Goats rue did to me a couple years back so you gotta keep those eyes open and gut instinct on the ready! While i wont cycle GB il move cautiously and il certainly try implement ways to get/gain progesterone although i see no point in adding in progesterone cream while on the programme.


Look forward to hearing how ya'll go.

Lotus has cautioned me in the past on Greenbush programme and maybe if he sticks his head in he may be open for comment
http://www.greenbush.net/newenblenkit.html

[wagon train]

What did goats rue and fenugreek do to you EllaC? And what has Lotus said as far as warning?

I definitely have some head spacey ness that I used to have from taking birth control as well. It's not nearly as debilitating as it was with the BC though. And It's probably amplified due to being on my period currently.

[EllaC]

What did goats rue and fenugreek do to you EllaC? And what has Lotus said as far as warning?

I definitely have some head spacey ness that I used to have from taking birth control as well. It's not nearly as debilitating as it was with the BC though. And It's probably amplified due to being on my period currently.

Hey.
My blood pressure tanked (always had perfect BP) and i blacked out. Cut my chin open, ended up in hospital for the night hooked up to machines. Bruised my ribs so couldnt move much for weeks and a tonne of pain. Id had warning signs leading up to the event and my gut told i should have stopped.

BUT these two act similar to one another so maybe the combo was too much for me to handle... Im a bit of a lightweight but with that said Im pretty hardy when it comes to most things.

Lotus cautions re fenugreek. Can stimulate cancer cells... Theres also evidence to the contrary... I value Lotus's advice hence not taking GB usage lightly.
Im going to try touch base with him soon about it. 

For me theres microbiome effects to both FG and WY which have proved soothing past couple of days but im still on the fence and plan to reserach further if i cant located L.

[Lotus]

Hi ladies, 

I'm not a big fan of proprietary blends, meaning you don't know how much of one herbs is over the other. We know certain herbs stimulate either estrogen receptor alpha or beta.....(alpha is the pro-breast growth receptor while beta is anti-cancer). 

drug drug interactions tells us one drug has a stronger affinity over the other drug introduced at the same time. So, we have multiple phytoestrogens competing for the receptors, and if you don't know what phytoestrogens competes with others you'll have know idea what works or not. I've seen some proprietary blends that make no sense being combined with each other at all.....and yet they are.

As NBE consumers you'll know (over time) what herbs cause heaving bleeding, pain, bloating, depression or worse....(aka life threatening events). You'd be better to start off with one or two herbs and progress from there....if all goes well. Women metabolize drugs faster (and with less....20-30% faster though over men).....but yet some people would have you belive taking mass quantities must be done.....madness. 

Personally, I learned the hard way what I can and can't do (in regards to herbals), so be careful out there, there's plenty of BN members that have injured themselves......permanently (archived for those interested).

[EllaC]

Hi ladies, 

I'm not a big fan of proprietary blends, meaning you don't know how much of one herbs is over the other. We know certain herbs stimulate either estrogen receptor alpha or beta.....(alpha is the pro-breast growth receptor while beta is anti-cancer). 

drug drug interactions tells us one drug has a stronger affinity over the other drug introduced at the same time. So, we have multiple phytoestrogens competing for the receptors, and if you don't know what phytoestrogens competes with others you'll have know idea what works or not. I've seen some proprietary blends that make no sense being combined with each other at all.....and yet they are.

As NBE consumers you'll know (over time) what herbs cause heaving bleeding, pain, bloating, depression or worse....(aka life threatening events). You'd be better to start off with one or two herbs and progress from there....if all goes well. Women metabolize drugs faster (and with less....45% less) over men.....but yet people continue to think taking mass quantities must be done.....madness. 

Personally, I learned the hard way what I can and can't do (in regards to herbals), so be careful out there, there's plenty of BN members that have injured themselves......permanently (archived for those interested).

Hi. Thanks for coming in! 

Can you advise is fenugreek and wild yam alpha or beta? 
Actually most concerned over ant possible cancer stimulating properties of either FG and/or WG.

http://www.greenbush.net/enblenex.html

Plus here's a link to the product dosage etc. I refer to the extract as that has the punch.  
Do these herbs work synergisticly? 
What's your take on the Programe.  

Really appreciate your time .

[Lotus]

Hi ladies, 

I'm not a big fan of proprietary blends, meaning you don't know how much of one herbs is over the other. We know certain herbs stimulate either estrogen receptor alpha or beta.....(alpha is the pro-breast growth receptor while beta is anti-cancer). 

drug drug interactions tells us one drug has a stronger affinity over the other drug introduced at the same time. So, we have multiple phytoestrogens competing for the receptors, and if you don't know what phytoestrogens competes with others you'll have know idea what works or not. I've seen some proprietary blends that make no sense being combined with each other at all.....and yet they are.

As NBE consumers you'll know (over time) what herbs cause heaving bleeding, pain, bloating, depression or worse....(aka life threatening events). You'd be better to start off with one or two herbs and progress from there....if all goes well. Women metabolize drugs faster (and with less....45% less) over men.....but yet people continue to think taking mass quantities must be done.....madness. 

Personally, I learned the hard way what I can and can't do (in regards to herbals), so be careful out there, there's plenty of BN members that have injured themselves......permanently (archived for those interested).

Hi. Thanks for coming in! 

Can you advise is fenugreek and wild yam alpha or beta? 
Actually most concerned over ant possible cancer stimulating properties of either FG and/or WG.

http://www.greenbush.net/enblenex.html

Plus here's a link to the product dosage etc. I refer to the extract as that has the punch.  
Do these herbs work synergisticly? 
What's your take on the Programe.  

Really appreciate your time .

Certainly, anytime.  

I like GB's information (it's well put together). If you want to balance hormones do so first, (hence the WY). FG will increase estradiol...(see bottom two threads), if that's what you want to do. Don't take FG if your estrogen dominant, SP has its limitations with breast growth (my opinion)....so why include it with FG?....or WY. The ratio (1:1) I like and without the alcohol too. Reishi extract is my choice as an anti-androgen..it's strong enough to have in an hrt program too (my last blood test w/reishi...in place of spiro saw my T only slightly raised to (9 ng/dL, total testosterone).  


I'd keep FG separate allowing for its synthesis...30 minutes perceeding the AA dose though.

 FAQ-Is Fenugreek a Phytoestrogen?
http://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=19654

Fenugreek increases estradiol 
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=26172

FG overall has been explored as anti-cancer...though nothing is ever a guarantee when proliferating estrogen receptor alpha.

Diosgenin
http://www.breastnexus.com/attachment.php?aid=8344