[Morgan267]

Hello, everyone! 

I have browsed this forum before, but am just now showing myself to hopefully get some advice

I've always been average sized or maybe even a little less-I'm currently a C cup, but I don't fill out the very top of the cup. 

My left breast is a good deal smaller than my right one-maybe not quite a full cup size smaller but somewhere close to that. 

My breasts sit kind of far apart on my chest, so that even though they are an okay size, I never have actual cleavage, just a sort of shadow. If my breasts sat closer together I think they would appear bigger than they do now-the wide set nature of them takes away from their appearance of size. And when I lay down, since they are wide set they kind of fall to the side and look even smaller than they are. 

Here is a link to a photo just so you can get an idea; it's a braless photo but nipples are covered   https://www.dropbox.com/s/mp6a2q4g6zn818...M.jpg?dl=0

My specific goals in mind are to gain a couple of cup sizes and if it's possible, to make them sit closer together on my chest. 

I am small boned so I don't want to get HUGE, but I would love to be a full D or DD. 

But I am trying to lose about 15-20 pounds that I've gained from being lazy and not watching what I ate  Currently at 140 pounds and want to get back down to where I used to be, 120 pounds; and I know my breasts will shrink a little during that process, so I would like to be a full D or DD AFTER I lose that weight. So if I figure that I will maybe lose a cup size from weight loss, in reality I probably want to gain 3 cup sizes.

I'm hoping to gain this by massage, because I have bills to pay and can't afford extra expenses   

I'm also hoping to gain as much size as possible by the winter, because my LDR boyfriend is coming to visit in February   I'm not trying to gain for him specifically (he loves me the way I am). I would be trying to gain anyway for my own self confidence, but I know he'd love it as well so no reason to put it off  

Sorry for the long post, I know I ramble. Bottom line is I would so appreciate any advice I can get from y'all! Is it a realistic goal to gain 2 or 3 cup sizes in 8 months by massage? I'll be happy with whatever I gain by then of course but I'm curious if I could reach my end goal. Can I gain it just by massage? I found this thread that says it's possible: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=26280

And is there anything else I need to know? Any special tips, things that really work? Thank you SO much in advance-I am looking forward to meeting y'all and hearing what you have to say! 

Other possibly relevant info: I am 18 turning 19 in 3 months and I'm 5' 2 1/2". Not sure if that will affect anything but just in case.

Much love!

Morgan

[Happyme]

Hi Morgan,
Welcome!
Here is another very good thread for massage:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=25391
The other you referenced in your post is my other favorite.
Your breasts look superb, and I can see the difference in them.
If you massage regularly and give the smaller one some extra attention, you should see some improvement... slowly.
There are a host of oils you can use, but coconut and olive oil are good, and you can use them for cooking too.
Make sure you take your measurements, and photos for your reference. But dont be measuring every week or you'll get discouraged.
Happy growing
Bobbi

[Morgan267]

Hi Morgan,
Welcome!
Here is another very good thread for massage:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=25391
The other you referenced in your post is my other favorite.
Your breasts look superb, and I can see the difference in them.
If you massage regularly and give the smaller one some extra attention, you should see some improvement... slowly.
There are a host of oils you can use, but coconut and olive oil are good, and you can use them for cooking too.
Make sure you take your measurements, and photos for your reference. But dont be measuring every week or you'll get discouraged.
Happy growing
Bobbi

Thanks so much for the reply! I'll bookmark the other thread for reference  

I wonder how I should give the smaller one more attention-I'd like to grow them both of course, but what would you suggest-getting my breasts even by only massaging my smaller one until they are equal in size and then massaging both for cup size growth; or just doing both from the beginning and hope they kind of even out themselves?

I have plenty of good coconut oil that I was planning on using so that sounds great 

I'll take my measurements and photos today for sure- and perhaps I'll measure once a month, does that sound reasonable? 

And lastly, since I'm new here and don't quite know my way around, is there a progress report thread that people all report to if they like, or is it common for everyone to just post their own update threads for support and encouragement? Since it's something I'm serious about sticking with for a long time, I think that would help for motivation. 

Again, thank you for your reply! 

Morgan

[surferjoe2007]

2-3 cups in 8 months is definitely possible from massage.  If you are unlucky you might only gain 1 though.  And that's before weight loss.

Here are some mild herbs on a budget.
- Whole fenugreek seeds.  Technically $6.50+ a pound, but as a food it's cheaper than ramen.  So negative cost.  At least 2 tsp. a day is good, some eventually use 1-3 tbsp.  But too much can lead to weight gain so more might not be good.  Soak in water and rinse to soften.  About 135 tsp or 45 tbsp. to a pound.  2 tsp a day for 8 months is 3.5 lbs.
- Red clover powder.  At 500 mg a day or around 1/4 tsp you only need 120g (about 4 oz.) for 8 months.  Possibly less if it's an extract (1/4th as much of a 4:1 extract, etc.).  More doesn't help much AFAIK.  Or instead can do 100 mg PM.  Not more PM for a mild program.
- Vitex powder.  500 mg is likewise plenty.  Or 1/10 tsp progesterone cream every day (not cycled).  Not the 1/2-1 tsp the label says, not for a mild program anyway.
If you go to www.mountainroseherbs.com I found fenugreek at $6.50 per pound or $26 for 4 lbs., red clover $5 for 4 oz., vitex powder out of stock or it'd probably be $5 for 4 oz too.  $16 shipped for a pound on Amazon.  About same price for PC, but it will run out after the 8 months.  $26+$5+~$9 shipping+$16 = $56 for 8 months.  But actually $30 for 8 months not counting fenugreek, and you'll probably save money overall.

That will probably add another cup.  1-3 by itself, but you can't realistically add directly and say 2-6 cups.  So maybe 2-4 cups total with that and massage.  Minus 1-2 for weight loss.  So 0-3 cups.  Probably 1-2 IMO.  If that's not good enough you can use more fenugreek, and maybe more PM and/or PC.  But that might make weight loss more difficult.

If you have a place to grow spearmint it will spread like a weed and won't cost you anything after that.  About an ounce a day is good.  May also help a little.

[Morgan267]

2-3 cups in 8 months is definitely possible from massage.  If you are unlucky you might only gain 1 though.  And that's before weight loss.

Here are some mild herbs on a budget.
- Whole fenugreek seeds.  Technically $6.50+ a pound, but as a food it's cheaper than ramen.  So negative cost.  At least 2 tsp. a day is good, some eventually use 1-3 tbsp.  But too much can lead to weight gain so more might not be good.  Soak in water and rinse to soften.  About 135 tsp or 45 tbsp. to a pound.  2 tsp a day for 8 months is 3.5 lbs.
- Red clover powder.  At 500 mg a day or around 1/4 tsp you only need 120g (about 4 oz.) for 8 months.  Possibly less if it's an extract (1/4th as much of a 4:1 extract, etc.).  More doesn't help much AFAIK.  Or instead can do 100 mg PM.  Not more PM for a mild program.
- Vitex powder.  500 mg is likewise plenty.  Or 1/10 tsp progesterone cream every day (not cycled).  Not the 1/2-1 tsp the label says, not for a mild program anyway.
If you go to www.mountainroseherbs.com I found fenugreek at $6.50 per pound or $26 for 4 lbs., red clover $5 for 4 oz., vitex powder out of stock or it'd probably be $5 for 4 oz too.  $16 shipped for a pound on Amazon.  About same price for PC, but it will run out after the 8 months.  $26+$5+~$9 shipping+$16 = $56 for 8 months.  But actually $30 for 8 months not counting fenugreek, and you'll probably save money overall.

That will probably add another cup.  1-3 by itself, but you can't realistically add directly and say 2-6 cups.  So maybe 2-4 cups total with that and massage.  Minus 1-2 for weight loss.  So 0-3 cups.  Probably 1-2 IMO.  If that's not good enough you can use more fenugreek, and maybe more PM and/or PC.  But that might make weight loss more difficult.

If you have a place to grow spearmint it will spread like a weed and won't cost you anything after that.  About an ounce a day is good.  May also help a little.

Thank you so much! That is actually alot cheaper than I anticipated and I will definitely consider adding them in. I assume that those herbs are proven for breast growth?

[surferjoe2007]

Yes if you search the forums you can see others who have used those herbs before.  Your results may vary but since you're starting at C cup you'll probably be successful with the above herbs.

Come to think of it, ground flax seed (a.k.a. flax meal) is more expensive than red clover but it is also a nice food so thanks to lowering your food bill it could be cheaper overall.  Plus it's very healthy.  And it's better than red clover.  1-2 tbsp. a day is good, instead of the red clover.  It tastes nice with honey, or sprinkled on other things (it has a nutty taste I think), or you can add a little water and down it.  Both Amazon and mountainroseherbs.com have it.  So you could combine with either order to save on shipping, and/or compare prices.

[Morgan267]

Yes if you search the forums you can see others who have used those herbs before.  Your results may vary but since you're starting at C cup you'll probably be successful with the above herbs.

Come to think of it, ground flax seed (a.k.a. flax meal) is more expensive than red clover but it is also a nice food so thanks to lowering your food bill it could be cheaper overall.  Plus it's very healthy.  And it's better than red clover.  1-2 tbsp. a day is good, instead of the red clover.  It tastes nice with honey, or sprinkled on other things (it has a nutty taste I think), or you can add a little water and down it.  Both Amazon and mountainroseherbs.com have it.  So you could combine with either order to save on shipping, and/or compare prices.

I actually have ground flax seeds already and put them on salad, etc  I did not know it was good for breast growth, however!  So it works better than red clover? I will start using it regularly then!

[Lotus]

Flaxseed decreases cell proliferation and tumor growth of breast cancer (similar to the anti cancer drug Tamoxifen). So, in essence flaxseed is an anti-estrogen, though it does shift the ratio of 2-OHE1 hydroxyestone (a beneficial metabolite) over the harmful 16-OH-E1 hydroxyestrone metabolite to a positive one (out of the body).


Estrogen Testosterone and DHEA replacement 
http://bioidenticalhormonesny.com/wp-con...-Women.pdf

To understand the metabolites of estrogen one can look at catechol estrogens, and 2-hydroxylated estrogen is weaker than 4-hydroxylated catechol estrogen....while 4-hydroxylated has a faster rate of synthesis at estrogen receptors, which makes it more dangerous. 

Red clover stimulates ER-a (estrogen receptor alpha) that's the pro-breast growth receptor....which also makes it susceptible to breast cancer, but without stimulating ER-a the likelihood of breast growth is reduced. Better to have a mix of pro ER-a to ER-b (estrogen receptor beta, which is anti-cancer). 


Metabolism and DNA binding studies of 4-hydroxyestradiol and estradiol-3,4-quinone in vitro and in female ACI rat mammary gland in vivo.
Li KM1, Todorovic R, Devanesan P, Higginbotham S, Köfeler H, Ramanathan R, Gross ML, Rogan EG, Cavalieri EL.
Author information


Abstract
Studies of estrogen metabolism, formation of DNA adducts, carcinogenicity, cell transformation and mutagenicity have led to the hypothesis that reaction of certain estrogen metabolites, predominantly catechol estrogen-3,4-quinones, with DNA can generate the critical mutations initiating breast, prostate and other cancers. The endogenous estrogens estrone (E1) and estradiol (E2) are oxidized to catechol estrogens (CE), 2- and 4-hydroxylated estrogens, which can be further oxidized to CE quinones. To determine possible DNA adducts of E1(E2)-3,4-quinones [E1(E2)-3,4-Q], we reported previously that the reaction of E1(E2)-3,4-Q with dG produces the depurinating adduct 4-hydroxyE1(E2)-1-N7Gua [4-OHE1(E2)-1-N7Gua] by 1,4-Michael addition (Stack et al., Chem. Res. Toxicol., 1996, 9, 851). We report here that reaction of E1(E2)-3,4-Q with Ade results in the formation of 4-OHE1(E2)-1-N3Ade by 1,4-Michael addition. The N7Gua and N3Ade depurinating adducts formed both in vitro and in rat mammary gland in vivo were analyzed by HPLC with electrochemical detection and, for some samples, by LC/MS/MS. When E2-3,4-Q was reacted with DNA in vitro, the depurinating adducts 4-OHE1(E2)-1-N3Ade and 4-OHE1(E2)-1-N7Gua, which are rapidly lost from DNA by cleavage of the glycosyl bond, were formed (>99% of the total adducts), as well as traces of stable adducts, which remain in DNA unless removed by repair. Similar results were obtained when 4-OHE2 was oxidized by horseradish peroxidase, lactoperoxidase, tyrosinase or phenobarbital-induced rat liver microsomes in the presence of DNA. When 4-OHE2 or E2-3,4-Q was injected into the mammary glands of female ACI rats in vivo and the mammary tissue was excised 1 h later, the depurinating adducts 4-OHE2-1-N3Ade and 4-OHE2-1-N7Gua constituted >99% of the total adducts formed. In addition, 4-OHE2 conjugates formed by reaction of E2-3,4-Q with glutathione were also detected. These results demonstrate that the 4-CE are metabolized to CE-3,4-Q, which react with DNA to form primarily depurinating adducts. These adducts can generate the critical mutations that initiate cancer (Chakravarti et al., Oncogene, 2001, 20, 7945; Chakravarti et al., Proc. Am. Assoc. Cancer Res., 2003, 44, 180).

[surferjoe2007]

You can bet that if flax worked half as well as tamoxifen then bodybuilders (especially steroid abusers, but any of them really), would be all over it.  But there is no natural or legal anti-estrogen that works as well as the drugs.  Besides the anti-estrogen effect it also exhibits a mild estrogen effect.  So does tamoxifen but it's really weak for tamoxifen.  This is because flax phytoestrogens occupy and mildly activate estrogen receptors while also blocking them against other estrogens.  Flax is also anti-cancer in several ways besides the anti-estrogen effects.

Some bodybuilders do use flax for nutrient reasons and if it gave them moobs it must not have been noticeable enough to complain.  But they also have plenty of testosterone to counter a minor estrogen effect.  They have much more estrogen from other sources to worry about.  And flax might possibly combat excess estrogen.

Regardless if you search the forums many women have grown boobs from ground flaxseed, even ground flaxseed by itself.  Though now I wonder if it's from estrogen, prolactin (flax increases prolactin a little too), anti-testosterone (ditto), essential fatty acids, vitamins or from a combination of things.  So whatever the specifics may be it should be nice to use both for NBE and for health.  Yes, btw, flax is better than red clover for these reasons.

If anything the potential anti-estrogen effect may mean that it might interfere with stronger phytoestrogens like pueraria mirifica.  So PM might not work as well when used with flax.  In theory, anyway.

[Lotus]

You can bet if more women grew larger breasts from using flaxseed they'd be jumping all over by now (e.g. no need for other phytoestrogens)....and it's simply not the case, if it was we'd see more visual evidence here, and we don't. Spamming flaxseed as pro-breast growth is waste of time, in fact some women get deflated after using flaxseed....(science posted revealing why). Promoting flaxseed for protecting breasts (and the prostate) against cancer is actually what it really benefits (not growing bigger breasts). PCOS suffers should look at how using flaxseed could help get relief....no one talks about that enough though. Morgan, i think you'd be better served by looking at shatavari, a quick search using our BN search option will yeild great results, more so than going outside of breastnexus, but that's the case for most information about NBE, you'll find more information about NBE here versus elsewhere. 

You can bet that if flax worked half as well as tamoxifen then bodybuilders (especially steroid abusers, but any of them really), would be all over it.  

Btw, bodybuilders has covered this:

Once ingested, the bacterial flora in the colon metabolizes SDG to enterodiol (ED) and enterolactone (EL), which are commonly referred to as mammalian lignans. There's research showing that ED and EL both inhibit aromatase.
https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/fla...s-fish-oil


flaxseed inhibits T, free T and DHT....by increasing SHBG it lowers androgens, but won't grow breasts from using it because of how it INHIBITS aromatase...which flaxseed also inhibits aromatase in women.  " enterolactone (EL) and enterodiol (ED) inhibit the activity of aromatase and 17beta-HSD type 1 in MCF-7 cancer cells, thereby decreasing the amount of estradiol (E2) produced and consequently cell proliferation (in breast tissue). 

Effect of dietary components, including lignans and phytoestrogens, on enterohepatic circulation and liver metabolism of estrogens and on sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2826899/


The Effect of Flaxseed Supplementation on Hormonal Levels Associated with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome: A Case Study
Flaxseed is a rich source of lignan and has been shown to reduce androgen levels in men with prostate cancer. Polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS), a common endocrine disorder among women in their reproductive years, also is associated with high levels of androgens and is frequently accompanied by hirsutism, amenorrhea and obesity. This clinical case study describes the impact of flaxseed supplementation (30 g/day) on hormonal levels in a 31-year old woman with PCOS. During a four month period, the patient consumed 83% of the flaxseed dose. Heights, weights, and fasting blood samples taken at baseline and 4-month follow-up indicated the following values: BMI (36.0 vs. 35.7m/kg2); insulin (5.1 vs. 7.0 uIU/ml); total serum testosterone (150 ng/dl vs. 45 ng/dl); free serum testosterone (4.7 ng/dl vs. 0.5 ng/dl); and % free testosterone (3.1% vs. 1.1%). The patient also reported a decrease in hirsutism at the completion of the study period. The clinically-significant decrease in androgen levels with a concomitant reduction in hirsutism reported in this case study demonstrates a need for further research of flaxseed supplementation on hormonal levels and clinical symptoms of PCOS.

Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase in genital skin fibroblasts and prostate tissue by dietary lignans and isoflavonoids.
Evans BA1, Griffiths K, Morton MS.
Author information

Abstract
Isoflavonoids and lignans, constituents of many plant foods, have been proposed as protective agents in those populations with a low incidence of hormone-dependent cancers. They may act by their inhibition of the metabolism of growth-promoting steroid hormones. This report describes the inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase and 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase by six isoflavonoids and two lignans in human genital skin fibroblast monolayers and homogenates, and in benign prostatic hyperplasia tissue homogenates. In genital skin fibroblasts, genistein, biochanin A and equol were the most potent inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase activity, each resulting in greater than 80% inhibition at a concentration of 100 microM. The IC50 values for genistein and a seven-compound mixture were approximately 35 microM and 20 microM (2.9 microM of each compound) respectively. Of the lignans, enterolactone was the most potent inhibitor. Inhibition by biochanin A was shown to be reversible. When genital skin fibroblast homogenates were used, biochanin A was found to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase isozymes 1 and 2 to differing extents (30% and 75% respectively). Genistein was shown to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase 2 in a non-competitive nature (Vmax and Km values without and with inhibitor were 30 and 20 pmol/mg protein per h and 177 and 170 nM respectively). All of the compounds tested inhibited 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase activity in genital skin fibroblast monolayers. When prostate tissue homogenates were used, the compounds tested were better inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase 1 than 2.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

If you noticed biochanin A (red clover) inhibits DHT (type I 5ar @ 30% and type II 5 ar @ 75).....that's right (a NEW discovery here at BN).
 " biochanin A was found to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase isozymes 1 and 2 to differing extents (30% and 75% respectively). "


Flaxseed Supplementation (not Dietary Fat Restriction) Reduces Prostate Cancer Proliferation Rates in Men Presurgery
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...po=19.6970


Mammalian phytoestrogens: enterodiol and enterolactone.
Wang LQ1.
Author information


Abstract
The mammalian phytoestrogens enterodiol (END) and enterolactone (ENL) are produced in the colon by the action of bacteria on the plant precursors matairesinol (MAT), secoisolariciresinol (SECO), their glycosides, and other precursors in the diet. Both END and ENL have been shown to possess weakly estrogenic and antiestrogenic activities, and it has been suggested that the high production of these antiestrogenic mammalian lignans in the gut may serve to protect against breast cancer in women and prostate cancer in men. Various in vitro experiments suggested END and ENL significantly inhibited the growth of human colon tumor cells, and the E2-induced proliferation of MCF-7 breast cancer cells was inhibited by ENL. The protective effects of mammalian lignans may be due to their ability to compete with E2 for the type II estrogen receptor, to induce sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), to inhibit placental aromatase, and to act as antioxidants. This review mainly deals with the chemistry, quantitative analysis, biological properties and health effects of END and ENL.

Mammalian lignans and genistein decrease the activities of aromatase and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in MCF-7 cells.
Brooks JD1, Thompson LU.
Author information


Abstract
Estrogen plays a major role in breast cancer development and progression. Breast tissue and cell lines contain the necessary enzymes for estrogen synthesis, including aromatase and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17beta-HSD). These enzymes can influence tissue exposure to estrogen and therefore have become targets for breast cancer treatment and prevention. This study determined whether the isoflavone genistein (GEN) and the mammalian lignans enterolactone (EL) and enterodiol (ED) would inhibit the activity of aromatase and 17beta-HSD type 1 in MCF-7 cancer cells, thereby decreasing the amount of estradiol (E2) produced and consequently cell proliferation. Results showed that 10 microM EL, ED and GEN significantly decreased the amount of estrone (E1) produced via the aromatase pathway by 37%, 81% and 70%, respectively. Regarding 17beta-HSD type 1, 50 microM EL and GEN maximally inhibited E2 production by 84% and 59%, respectively. The reduction in E1 and E2 production by EL and the reduction in E2 production by GEN were significantly related to a reduction in MCF-7 cell proliferation. 4-Hydroxyandrostene-3,17-dione (50 microM) did not inhibit aromatase but inhibited the conversion of E1 to E2 by 78%, suggesting that it is a 17beta-HSD type 1 inhibitor. In conclusion, modulation of local E2 synthesis is one potential mechanism through which ED, EL and GEN may protect against breast cancer.