[EllaC]

So Im hearing dairy might actually leach calcium from the bones.. With the exception of raw dairy which is essentially universally banned.
So how best to obtain CALCIUM from plant sources?

Thanks.

[Bonny]

So Im hearing dairy might actually leach calcium from the bones.. With the exception of raw dairy which is essentially universally banned.
So how best to obtain CALCIUM from plant sources?

Thanks.

Oh i love this question. I often get asked where do i get calcium from if am plant/egg eater especially concerning my kids? My answer is we eat a wide variety of different plants, seeds, nuts, fungi (mushrooms), honey & eggs. We generally have no less then 8 different vegies on our plate every night and have a big thing that live foods (non-cooked veg/salad/fruit) is a must at every dinner meal,  plus whatever is eaten during the day. There are many fortified foods but to be honest i dont really consume much processed food maybe once daily (gf bread or crispbreads) but these are not fortfied. I dont mointor my intake of things such as calcium, iron, protein etc just eat wide variety, its pretty easy to be a unhealthy plant eater just eating chips, softdrink, pastries and lollies they give plant eating a bad name. And to back my way of eating 'wide' i had a blood test not long ago and all my levels are prefect. Many dont realise that even an orange has calcium! .'...Dairy is it healthy? ...' is a taboo subject so i wont put my personal views here but just say you dont need to consume dairy to get your calcium and you should also be careful taking calcium supplements because excess calcium needs to go somewhere! And one last point about dairy consumption and how its touted to prevent osteoporosis - the western world is the largest consumers of dairy we  also have the highest rates of osteoporosis so the evidence simply doesnt back the claims that consuming dairy prevents osteoporosis. 
Chrissy
Heres a link for vegan calcium sources its not extensive but gives you an idea
http://www.care2.com/greenliving/25-vega...lcium.html

Another interesting question to ponder is where does the cow get its calcium from?

[EllaC]

Thanks chrissy.
Yeh my views are so different now. Milk is just dead bacteria we cant digest cause the enzymes are killed and its pro inflammatory . Meat causes ..... you know what. Im confused. I have to limit my carbs and raw food AND sugar from fruit. Cant read too much into it but hands down im not absorbing nutrients and im definately low in calcium . Im trying to balance calcium magnesium and phosphorous and yes as you say calcium supps might affect the heart ive heard :s 

Ok so yeh diverse diet full of whole foods. Good idea
 Wonder how i can improve absorption although that will likely come with fixing my gut

[EllaC]

Thanks il check out your link out  value your input x

[Bonny]

Thanks il check out your link out  value your input x

I have a gluten intolerance and managed to improve it by taking Lglutamine and coconut products. They say that Lglutamine improves the junctions in the gut and tightens the loose ones up. I definitely had a win. I went from high intolerance not being able to eat anything cooked in same pan as something containing wheat to being able to eat small things containing wheat eg. Sauces, hash browns but i have a build up thing once a week or two days in a row, no good. You can get it on iherb its tasteless  (allmax i think is brand blue container). And coconut well coconut just heals everything but is awesome for gut.  If you want to have a good crack at healing your gut stay away from
Dairy - instant inflammatory
Meat - well its hard for body to digest, too much protein not good for body and well dead life force (including fish unfortunately fish has so much human poison in it now you can no longer call it healthy (mercury, plastics & poison plus once again dead life force).
Lectins  - legumes another area to avoid for gut healing they contain lectins a substance that makes hard for body to break down (plant defense). Also some of the puesdo-seeds sould be avoid or used sparingly. And if your going to eat rice white is better brown and white bread better then brown whole grains are not as great as advertised they have there husks on and you guessed it high in lectins. Also might be worth looking at nightshade family try to limit some but i wouldn't remove them 
Note - nearly everything contains lectins but ones i mentioned are high.
And myself personally would remove wheat switch to gluten-free wheat is an inflammatory too it use to be good but the modern grain has been altered and is no longer 'good' for you. But good news is gf stuff is lots better then old days 
But i guess its baby steps or youll get defeated. Cut things down eg. Dairy, meat, legumes and switch them out for others that are friendlier and that you enjoy. Other people take alot of probiotics but i like to encourage my own bacteria growth with prebiotic foods and just helping your gut heal but not putting nasties in there should help you improve. I always tell people its like a wound you wouldn't keep rubbing dirt into it if you want it to heal that would make it worst your gut is the same it will never heal if you keep giving it harmful stuff it needs to keep fighting off, it just gets worst. 

Ps if you need any ideas or brand suggestions  (ur in oz too) am happy to help ive already tried alot lol 
Chrissy x

[EllaC]

Thanks il check out your link out  value your input x

I have a gluten intolerance and managed to improve it by taking Lglutamine and coconut products. They say that Lglutamine improves the junctions in the gut and tightens the loose ones up. I definitely had a win. I went from high intolerance not being able to eat anything cooked in same pan as something containing wheat to being able to eat small things containing wheat eg. Sauces, hash browns but i have a build up thing once a week or two days in a row, no good. You can get it on iherb its tasteless  (allmax i think is brand blue container). And coconut well coconut just heals everything but is awesome for gut.  If you want to have a good crack at healing your gut stay away from
Dairy - instant inflammatory
Meat - well its hard for body to digest, too much protein not good for body and well dead life force (including fish unfortunately fish has so much human poison in it now you can no longer call it healthy (mercury, plastics & poison plus once again dead life force).
Lectins  - legumes another area to avoid for gut healing they contain lectins a substance that makes hard for body to break down (plant defense). Also some of the puesdo-seeds sould be avoid or used sparingly. And if your going to eat rice white is better brown and white bread better then brown whole grains are not as great as advertised they have there husks on and you guessed it high in lectins. Also might be worth looking at nightshade family try to limit some but i wouldn't remove them 
Note - nearly everything contains lectins but ones i mentioned are high.
And myself personally would remove wheat switch to gluten-free wheat is an inflammatory too it use to be good but the modern grain has been altered and is no longer 'good' for you. But good news is gf stuff is lots better then old days 
But i guess its baby steps or youll get defeated. Cut things down eg. Dairy, meat, legumes and switch them out for others that are friendlier and that you enjoy. Other people take alot of probiotics but i like to encourage my own bacteria growth with prebiotic foods and just helping your gut heal but not putting nasties in there should help you improve. I always tell people its like a wound you wouldn't keep rubbing dirt into it if you want it to heal that would make it worst your gut is the same it will never heal if you keep giving it harmful stuff it needs to keep fighting off, it just gets worst. 

Ps if you need any ideas or brand suggestions  (ur in oz too) am happy to help ive already tried alot lol 
Chrissy x

Hey. Goodness we sound alike! I have sibo so im on the same page :
I didnt consider dairy being instant inflammatory though  
Il post more later

[Ashley8]

So Im hearing dairy might actually leach calcium from the bones.. With the exception of raw dairy which is essentially universally banned.
So how best to obtain CALCIUM from plant sources?

Thanks.

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that animal protien does in fact leach calcium from the bones. So drinking milk actually causes osteoporosis. (That's what I learned in reflexology school anyways, and my teacher was a certified nutritionist and naturopath amongst many other things)
I suggest looking into Barely - it has calcium and many more nutrients. Here's some amazing info on the benefits. (Btw I just started taking it a couple days ago and already notice some effects) 

Info copied from:
http://www.purehealingfoods.com/barleyGrassInfo.php

There is other info on the page/website I didn't include, but it's very interesting and you should check it out for many more reasons than just calcium. 

Benefits of Barley Grass

Barley grass is one of the green grasses. The true beauty of barley is found in the leaves; the young green shoots of power that form before the grain. The young leaves have a tremendous ability to absorb nutrients from the soil. When barley leaves are 12-14 inches high, they contain all the vitamins, minerals, and proteins necessary for the human diet, plus chlorophyll. These necessities are easily assimilated throughout the digestive tract, giving our bodies instant access to vital nutrients.

Large amounts of vitamins and minerals are found in green barley (Barley Greens) leaves. These include potassium, calcium, magnesium, iron, copper, phosphorus, manganese, zinc, beta carotene, B1, B2, B6, C, folic acid, and pantothenic acid. Barley grass is said to have 30 times more vitamin B1 and 11 times the amount of calcium than there is in cow's milk, 6.5 times as much carotene and nearly 5 times the iron content of spinach, close to seven times the vitamin C in oranges, four times the vitamin B1 in whole wheat flour, and 80 micrograms of vitamin B12 per 100 grams of dried barley plant juice.

Barley grass is very high in organic sodium, which dissolves calcium deposited on the joints and also replenishes organic sodium in the lining of the stomach. This aids digestion by improving the production of hydrochloric acid in the stomach. People with arthritis have used celery juice for years because of the organic sodium it contains (28mg per 100grms), but compare this to the amount of organic sodium in barley grass (775mg per 100 grams)!

Barley grass, at the time it is harvested to make juice, is about 45 percent protein. It has almost twice as much protein as an equivalent amount of wheat germ and about five times the minerals which accompany animal protein, in addition the protein in barley grass doesn't come burdened with fat.

Enzymes (barley grass is believed to contain up to 1,000 of them) are the necessary regulators of the body, without them our cells could not function and we would perish. Barley grass has one of the highest natural levels of enzyme SOD (superoxide dismutase), which is a powerful antioxidant that protects the cells against toxic free radicals, thought to be a primary culprit in aging.

Barley grass also contains one of the most amazing nutrients: chlorophyll, a natural detoxifier that rids the intestines of stored toxins. You don't have to drink green grass juices to get chlorophyll; it is present in all dark green, leafy vegetables. But the question is "how many servings of spinach, kale, collards, mustard greens, or turnip and beet tops, do you eat everyday?" And for those who do eat them regularly, there is, after all, a limit to the amount of spinach, kale and the likes someone can eat.

Importance of green foods

The importance of green foods in our diet is now being validated scientifically. Dehydrated cereal grasses compare favourably with other greens in respect to both nutrients and cost. It is an excellent and convenient source of green food nutrients.

Green food nutrients support healthy blood and circulation. Iron, folic acid, vitamin C, vitamin B12, pyridoxine and protein are all vital for the formation and maintenance of adequate levels of hemoglobin and red blood cells. Chlorophyll may also be beneficial in these processes. In addition, chlorophyll, vitamin K, and calcium are all involved in blood clot formation and breakdown.

Users of barley grass have also found it useful as an aid in weight loss and good for the heart, healing of ulcers, correcting blood sugar problems and, most of all, as a general tonic.

Amino Acids and Proteins in Barley Grass

Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins; 20 of them are present in the body proteins in significant quality. Proteins are the major constituent of every cell and body fluid (except urine and bile) and are thus necessary for the continual cell building, regeneration, and energy production that we need for life. An added benefit of the Barley Grass leaf proteins is that they are polypeptides; smaller proteins that can be directly absorbed by the blood, where they promote cell metabolism (the chemical changes that we need to live) and neutralize substances that are bad for our health. Barley Grass contains 18 amino acids (including the 8 essential amino acids) - that is, the amino acids that we must get from out diets; the body cannot produce them by itself.

Alkalinity and More

Barley Grass leaves are extremely alkaline, so digesting them can help keep the body's alkaline and acidity ratio balanced. Our cells cannot adequately function if the pH range (which measures alkaline and acidity) is not in a very narrow range. Most processed foods are acidic, and when we consume too many of them, the acidity/alkaline balance is upset. This may result in possible fatigue.

Recently research has unveiled a wealth of other possible benefits of Barley Grass. Extracted compounds have found to have hypercholesteromic, anti-inflammatory, and anti-ulcer properties. A new antioxidant, 2"-0-GIV, has been isolated and reported to have antioxidant activity equal to or superior to vitamin E. Finally, studies have shown that when Barley Grass juice is added to injured cells, the cells' DNA repair themselves more rapidly. This may contribute to preventing the changes that often lead to cancer, rapid aging, and cell death.

[surferjoe2007]

The real reason is more likely because we eat too much calcium.  The ideal per studies at pubmed.gov is actually 650 mg calcium, not more, and 1,000-2,000 i.u. vitamin D.  More vitamin D is ok (to a point).  More calcium can actually weaken your bones.  Extra vitamin D counteracts excess calcium so the most likely explanation is that too much calcium reduces your vitamin D and then you can't absorb and/or utlize calcium as well with depleted vitamin D.

The Japanese in fact get 300 mg calcium and have less osteoporosis than Americans.

So the best way is to get plenty of vitamin D and not worry about calcium too much.

Chia seeds and nuts are high in calcium though it's poorly absorbed.  Many of the veggie sources actually leech calcium from your body.  But because the oxalic acid in these veggies is so specific to calcium only and not other minerals, you can simply take calcium powder with them.  And unlike calcium powder alone you don't have to worry about being shorted on other minerals.  The veggies have plenty of these and oxalic acid won't bind to the other minerals.  Fortified foods are no different from calcium powde.  But again other nutrients including what's in veggies makes a bigger difference to your bones.

[Bonny]

Great replies all round!  Yeah i think that you'll find the high daily recommended amounts come from the dairy industry not actual studies; if they set it high people freak out that their not getting enough which makes them consume more dairy 'win' for the dairy industry (not farmers just industry; big difference).  But eating a wide variety of plants etc. will solve a lot of issue and fill in most nutritional gaps.  You can't eat just cheese burgers and get all your nutrition nor can you just eat potatoes and get all your body requires to operate at it's best.   Plus at SJoe said there are plenty other vitamin/minerals/other you gain from eating the whole fruit/veg and it's the synergy of these things that really make them powerful for example when 'they' say you must take iron with vitamin C for absorption well guess what mother nature/universe/god whatever your thing is has already worked that out when it created your beautiful fruits and vegetables.  Yes oranges do contain iron and calcium along with heaps of other stuff.

[Bonny]

So Im hearing dairy might actually leach calcium from the bones.. With the exception of raw dairy which is essentially universally banned.
So how best to obtain CALCIUM from plant sources?

Thanks.

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that animal protien does in fact leach calcium from the bones. So drinking milk actually causes osteoporosis. (That's what I learned in reflexology school anyways, and my teacher was a certified nutritionist and naturopath amongst many other things)
I suggest looking into Barely - it has calcium and many more nutrients. Here's some amazing info on the benefits. (Btw I just started taking it a couple days ago and already notice some effects) 

Info copied from:
http://www.purehealingfoods.com/barleyGrassInfo.php

There is other info on the page/website I didn't include, but it's very interesting and you should check it out for many more reasons than just calcium. 

Benefits of Barley Grass

Barley grass is one of the green grasses. The true beauty of barley is found in the leaves; the young green shoots of power that form before the grain. The young leaves have a tremendous ability to absorb nutrients from the soil. When barley leaves are 12-14 inches high, they contain all the vitamins, minerals, and proteins necessary for the human diet, plus chlorophyll. These necessities are easily assimilated throughout the digestive tract, giving our bodies instant access to vital nutrients.

Large amounts of vitamins and minerals are found in green barley (Barley Greens) leaves. These include potassium, calcium, magnesium, iron, copper, phosphorus, manganese, zinc, beta carotene, B1, B2, B6, C, folic acid, and pantothenic acid. Barley grass is said to have 30 times more vitamin B1 and 11 times the amount of calcium than there is in cow's milk, 6.5 times as much carotene and nearly 5 times the iron content of spinach, close to seven times the vitamin C in oranges, four times the vitamin B1 in whole wheat flour, and 80 micrograms of vitamin B12 per 100 grams of dried barley plant juice.

Barley grass is very high in organic sodium, which dissolves calcium deposited on the joints and also replenishes organic sodium in the lining of the stomach. This aids digestion by improving the production of hydrochloric acid in the stomach. People with arthritis have used celery juice for years because of the organic sodium it contains (28mg per 100grms), but compare this to the amount of organic sodium in barley grass (775mg per 100 grams)!

Barley grass, at the time it is harvested to make juice, is about 45 percent protein. It has almost twice as much protein as an equivalent amount of wheat germ and about five times the minerals which accompany animal protein, in addition the protein in barley grass doesn't come burdened with fat.

Enzymes (barley grass is believed to contain up to 1,000 of them) are the necessary regulators of the body, without them our cells could not function and we would perish. Barley grass has one of the highest natural levels of enzyme SOD (superoxide dismutase), which is a powerful antioxidant that protects the cells against toxic free radicals, thought to be a primary culprit in aging.

Barley grass also contains one of the most amazing nutrients: chlorophyll, a natural detoxifier that rids the intestines of stored toxins. You don't have to drink green grass juices to get chlorophyll; it is present in all dark green, leafy vegetables. But the question is "how many servings of spinach, kale, collards, mustard greens, or turnip and beet tops, do you eat everyday?" And for those who do eat them regularly, there is, after all, a limit to the amount of spinach, kale and the likes someone can eat.

Importance of green foods

The importance of green foods in our diet is now being validated scientifically. Dehydrated cereal grasses compare favourably with other greens in respect to both nutrients and cost. It is an excellent and convenient source of green food nutrients.

Green food nutrients support healthy blood and circulation. Iron, folic acid, vitamin C, vitamin B12, pyridoxine and protein are all vital for the formation and maintenance of adequate levels of hemoglobin and red blood cells. Chlorophyll may also be beneficial in these processes. In addition, chlorophyll, vitamin K, and calcium are all involved in blood clot formation and breakdown.

Users of barley grass have also found it useful as an aid in weight loss and good for the heart, healing of ulcers, correcting blood sugar problems and, most of all, as a general tonic.

Amino Acids and Proteins in Barley Grass

Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins; 20 of them are present in the body proteins in significant quality. Proteins are the major constituent of every cell and body fluid (except urine and bile) and are thus necessary for the continual cell building, regeneration, and energy production that we need for life. An added benefit of the Barley Grass leaf proteins is that they are polypeptides; smaller proteins that can be directly absorbed by the blood, where they promote cell metabolism (the chemical changes that we need to live) and neutralize substances that are bad for our health. Barley Grass contains 18 amino acids (including the 8 essential amino acids) - that is, the amino acids that we must get from out diets; the body cannot produce them by itself.

Alkalinity and More

Barley Grass leaves are extremely alkaline, so digesting them can help keep the body's alkaline and acidity ratio balanced. Our cells cannot adequately function if the pH range (which measures alkaline and acidity) is not in a very narrow range. Most processed foods are acidic, and when we consume too many of them, the acidity/alkaline balance is upset. This may result in possible fatigue.

Recently research has unveiled a wealth of other possible benefits of Barley Grass. Extracted compounds have found to have hypercholesteromic, anti-inflammatory, and anti-ulcer properties. A new antioxidant, 2"-0-GIV, has been isolated and reported to have antioxidant activity equal to or superior to vitamin E. Finally, studies have shown that when Barley Grass juice is added to injured cells, the cells' DNA repair themselves more rapidly. This may contribute to preventing the changes that often lead to cancer, rapid aging, and cell death.

Ash i have trouble with Barley (gluten cereal) but am assuming Barley Grass is different a bit like the wheatgrass where it isn't a gluten trigger because it's pre-development of the seed??  
- A quick google search found my answer to this is yes it is pre-seed therefore shouldn't cause problems.  I may need to look into getting some!