[EllaC]

SP inhibits breast growth! Eek . Me and my bloody pills!! Now I want to add astaxanthin... 

Do you know what the deal with Reishi is? I got some not really for nbe but know there's an interplay there!

Personally? I won't recommend SP, however....it's a personal choice, if someone chooses to use SP that's ok, I provided the research, I won't take it personal. 

On the Reishi, how can I help you?.

My dear. How are the benefits for NBE? Thank you xx

[---]

I didn't take astaxanthin with SP. I only took it during follicular with PM. Usually, my breasts start to swell little by little each day after my period and all through follicular, and then during luteal they explode and become very heavy and full. But this month that didn't happen at all, and I can only contribute the change to the astaxanthin. My breasts didn't shrink, but they just didn't get any swelling, and I'm only a few days from period now. Each cycle I tend to retain a bit of the swelling I get, so because I didn't get any this time, I don't think I'm going to have any growth. I do love astaxanthin for the studied health benefits so I don't want to completely stop taking it, but I think it must be either conflicting with my PM or it must be lowering my E? Not sure, but I guess for me, I'll just stick to taking astaxanthin during my detox days/period.

Have any other ladies experience this effect (I read that you have to an extent, Hannah)? I would love to hear more responses from women who are actually taking it. Let us know how it goes for you when you start taking it, Ella!! <3



Xoxo

[hannah]

I didn't take astaxanthin with SP. I only took it during follicular with PM. Usually, my breasts start to swell little by little each day after my period and all through follicular, and then during luteal they explode and become very heavy and full. But this month that didn't happen at all, and I can only contribute the change to the astaxanthin. My breasts didn't shrink, but they just didn't get any swelling, and I'm only a few days from period now. Each cycle I tend to retain a bit of the swelling I get, so because I didn't get any this time, I don't think I'm going to have any growth. I do love astaxanthin for the studied health benefits so I don't want to completely stop taking it, but I think it must be either conflicting with my PM or it must be lowering my E? Not sure, but I guess for me, I'll just stick to taking astaxanthin during my detox days/period.

Have any other ladies experience this effect (I read that you have to an extent, Hannah)? I would love to hear more responses from women who are actually taking it. Let us know how it goes for you when you start taking it, Ella!! <3



Xoxo

Yes I had deflation too, but my breast size is shifting a lot so my nbe travel is a bit on a hold atm. I want to have a stable breast size first before I can continue nbe. Right now I only take astaxanthin bc of its health benefits. If my breasts continue deflating a lot I might consider fat transfer in the future. I dont want to discourage this forum any further. Its just that herbals didnt provided me the desired result so far..unfortunately but true.

[EllaC]

Hannah look at non denatured whey protein and see what you think .

[---]

Yes I had deflation too, but my breast size is shifting a lot so my nbe travel is a bit on a hold atm. I want to have a stable breast size first before I can continue nbe. Right now I only take astaxanthin bc of its health benefits. If my breasts continue deflating a lot I might consider fat transfer in the future. I dont want to discourage this forum any further. Its just that herbals didnt provided me the desired result so far..unfortunately but true.

That's completely understandable, Hannah. I considered fat transfer at one point too, but I ended up scaring myself out of it, lol. Luckily I've seen results from my herbal program so far so I hope that I continue to see results until I reach a stopping point. If you do go through with a fat transfer, it would be very interesting and informative if you can keep us updated with your results! It might help others out as well, because I think many people on here have considered it or are still considering it now. Either way, wishing you luck!! <3


Xoxo

[Lotus]

Reishi stimulates the immune system (beta-1,3-D-glucan), prevents cancer, raises T cells, inhibits DHT (pharma class), and has estrogenic properties (amongst many other benefits), reishi is about the strongest (non steroidal anti-androgen) used for NBE.   

Here's some past info on reishi:

REISHI

Estrogen-like activity of ethanol extract of Ganoderma lucidum
Abstract
The ethanol extract from the fruiting body of Ganoderma lucidum was tested for its estrogen-like activity by using the cell proliferation assay (MCF-7 cells, human breast cancer cells), as well as the estrogen receptor binding assay, and pS2 mRNA expression assay in MCF-7 cells in vitro and uterotrophic assay in vivo. The ethanol extract of G. lucidum showed signifi cant positive effects on the proliferation of MCF-7 cells. This proliferation effect is related to the estrogenic activity of G. lucidum, because this proliferation activity was inhibited by the addition of the antiestrogenic compound ICI 182,780. The ability to bind to human estrogen receptors (hERs) α and β of the ethanol extract of G. lucidum was confirmed by using the coactivator-bacterial alkaline phosphatase system. ER-dependent cell responsibilities were investigated by examining the regulation of gene transcription for pS2 in MCF-7 cells. Our results demonstrated that the pS2 mRNA levels are significantly increased by the ethanol extract of G. lucidumvia an estrogen-like manner. Additionally, young rats that received the ethanol extract of G. lucidum (200 mg/kg per day) for 3 days showed a signifi cant increase (growth approximately twofold compared with the control group) in uterine weight after each treatment, which supports the estrogen-like activity of the ethanol extract of G. lucidum in vivo. It was concluded that the ethanol extract of G. lucidum showed estrogen-like activity, which may be useful in regulating hormone levels to treat related diseases such as osteoporosis if safety is fully guaranteed.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007...008-0992-2

'A general Ganoderma lucidum extract does not separate the triterpenoids and the polysaccharides present in the mushroom, which make up the ethanolic and water-soluble extracts, respectively. The standard dose for the basic extract is 1.44g – 5.2g. The most popular dose is 5.2g, taken in three doses of 1,800mg.

The standard dosage for the ethanolic extract is 6mg. The water-soluble extract should be dosed similarly to the basic extract.

'The basic extract is essentially dehydrated mushroom powder, which makes it about 10 times as potent as the actual mushroom. This means that 5g of extract is similar to about 50g of whole mushroom.'


Inhibition of 5α-reductase results in decreased conversion of testosterone to DHT, leading to increased testosterone and estradiol. Other enzymes compensate to a degree for the absent conversion, spec voifically with local expression at the skin of reductive 17b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, oxidative 3a-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, and 3b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzymes. Inhibition of the enzyme can be classified into two categories: steroidal, which are irreversible, and nonsteroidal. 5-α reductase 2 is the one we're interested in,


Chapter 9Ganoderma lucidum (Lingzhi or Reishi)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/

A Medicinal Mushroom

 Triterpene content ranged from undetectable to 7.8% and the polysaccharide content varied from 1.1–5.8% (Chang and Buswell 2008). Such variations can occur for several reasons, including differences in the species or strains of mushroom used and differences in production methods.

Anti-androgenic activities of Ganoderma lucidum.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16029938


An Update on Plant Derived Anti-Androgens
http://endometabol.com/?page=article&article_id=3644


The anti-androgen effect of ganoderol B isolated from the fruiting body of Ganoderma lucidum.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17499997


Recent advances in the chemistry and pharmacological activity of new steroidal antiandrogens and 5 alpha-reductase inhibitors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15853706

http://examine.com/supplements/Ganoderma+lucidum/

[Lotus]

I didn't take astaxanthin with SP. I only took it during follicular with PM. Usually, my breasts start to swell little by little each day after my period and all through follicular, and then during luteal they explode and become very heavy and full. But this month that didn't happen at all, and I can only contribute the change to the astaxanthin. My breasts didn't shrink, but they just didn't get any swelling, and I'm only a few days from period now. Each cycle I tend to retain a bit of the swelling I get, so because I didn't get any this time, I don't think I'm going to have any growth. I do love astaxanthin for the studied health benefits so I don't want to completely stop taking it, but I think it must be either conflicting with my PM or it must be lowering my E? Not sure, but I guess for me, I'll just stick to taking astaxanthin during my detox days/period.

Have any other ladies experience this effect (I read that you have to an extent, Hannah)? I would love to hear more responses from women who are actually taking it. Let us know how it goes for you when you start taking it, Ella!! <3



Xoxo

It's necessary to convert T to E in order for breast growth to synthesize. Like I said above, inhibiting DHT raises T and E....the active part (meaning free) of both is the part(s) that's beneficial for breast growth. Perhaps you don't need as much anti-androgens as you think, i'd look at an effective pro-aromatase.

[Lotus]

Growth hormone (GH) stimulates IGF-1, but IGF-1 oddly enough reduces GH.....the pituitary GH signal is immediate, while liver GH is slow to process...and takes longer to exit the liver. 

However, E2 and GH are like best buddies, they can stimulate IGF-1, and that's the part that intrigues me the most. I've come to realize that taking breast growth to the next level means duplicating growth spurts (or mini cascades if you will).....mirroring growth spurts in puberty. So...HPG->E2 -> GH -> IGF-1 -> inhibit somatostatin -> EOP (endogenous opioid peptides)....these actions occurs only in pubety.....our goal is to prove that hypothesis wrong, we will find little known pathway(s) and it's appropriate synthesis for our needs....without using steroids....and improving nitrogen loss. 

GH / IGF-1 (growth hormones) with estradiol, that combination helps developed TEB's (terminal end buds)....in other words the essential part of mammary ductal system. GH improves estrogen receptors, like taking L-arginine, Glutamine, Glycine and a few others up-regulates GH. And btw, developing TEB (terminal ends buds are likely the first stage of breast growth in puberty), though I believe you can still grow (or mature) TEB's in adulthood.

[---]

It's necessary to convert T to E in order for breast growth to synthesize. Like I said above, inhibiting DHT raises T and E....the active part (meaning free) of both is the part(s) that's beneficial for breast growth. Perhaps you don't need as much anti-androgens as you think, i'd look at an effective pro-aromatase.

Okay, thanks for your advice, Lotus! That makes a lot of sense to me. I've been taking reishi for the many health benefits (I try to drink a cup before bed for the sleep benefits as well because I'm a certified insomniac and it does help to an extent). I knew it has estrogenic properties but I guess I thought it was a pro-aromatase too, but I've stumbled on some studies that suggest it might be anti-aromatase (can you tell me if it is or isn't? I read the study you posted on it but it doesn't suggest that it is or maybe I'm missing it?). I've had success with spearmint tea in the past so I think I might try to incorporate that again and see how I fare or maybe try out white peony. Possibly by incorporating the pro-aromatase I can continue taking astaxanthin daily because it's really one of those underrated supplements and I definitely want to reap the benefits of it while doing NBE (especially for it's anti-cancer effects) and also afterwards. Thanks for suggesting that to me! 


Xoxo