[Ohi]

Yasmin does seem to have way less progestin than progestin than progestin only pills.

Hm, why would you assume it? Well the progestin in Yasmin (drospirenone) is not available in progestin-only BC formulas so I have nothing to compare it with, but for other types of progestin medications it seems the other way around: when they’re combined with estrogen their amount is about twice as high as that of when they’re used alone.   
 Ugh well I'd hate to contribute to my highly probable E-dominance with taking the pill..

Soy isoflavones are probably just as good as RC if not better.

Thanks. What would you say about the dosage, though? (38mg/1 pill). Is it adequate or too miniscule? 

As you're knowledgeable in nutrition, I was also wondering what's your take on cruciferous vegetables? I've heard they affect estrogen metabolism (break it down?), can it be counterproductive for NBE? It sounds so but then again I saw people mentioning these veggies in boob-friendly nutrition so I'm still confused here.

Also saw you briefly mentioning insulin, would you elaborate a bit? Are its spikes pro-NBE? I've been on a keto-like eating style which is associated with low stable insulin levels so again I wonder if it's a bad thing when it comes to NBE programs.

[surferjoe2007]

Yasmin does seem to have way less progestin than progestin than progestin only pills.

Hm, why would you assume it? Well the progestin in Yasmin (drospirenone) is not available in progestin-only BC formulas so I have nothing to compare it with, but for other types of progestin medications it seems the other way around: when they’re combined with estrogen their amount is about twice as high as that of when they’re used alone.   
 Ugh well I'd hate to contribute to my highly probable E-dominance with taking the pill..

Soy isoflavones are probably just as good as RC if not better.

Thanks. What would you say about the dosage, though? (38mg/1 pill). Is it adequate or too miniscule? 

As you're knowledgeable in nutrition, I was also wondering what's your take on cruciferous vegetables? I've heard they affect estrogen metabolism (break it down?), can it be counterproductive for NBE? It sounds so but then again I saw people mentioning these veggies in boob-friendly nutrition so I'm still confused here.

Also saw you briefly mentioning insulin, would you elaborate a bit? Are its spikes pro-NBE? I've been on a keto-like eating style which is associated with low stable insulin levels so again I wonder if it's a bad thing when it comes to NBE programs.

I couldn't find clear information on combined BC.  I could be wrong.  I assumed because it was 21 day that it was more of an estrogen effect but I'd have to read more.

1 pill of soy isoflavones is plenty because it is highly concentrated.  More probably won't hurt, but 1 pill is already probably past the point where more doesn't have more effect.

Cruciferious vegetables can destroy some estrogen, but not too much.  I've heard it claimed that it destroys "bad" estrogen.  I don't know how true it is, but there is some sort of studied health benefit to the compound that does this.  Besides the compound that breaks down estrogen, many of them are packed with nutrients that are good for health in general including NBE.  Especially broccoli.

Insulin has a minor beneficial effect on NBE.  In general, not necessarily the spikes.  That doesn't matter much.  More importantly Keto is super nutrient poor including many nutrients that are essential to NBE.  And a multivite won't replace most of them.  I've also read about high protein diets shrinking boobs tremendously.  A healthy diet is very high in whole food carbs, so it isn't compatible with the latest no carb fad.  Though refined carbs are very bad for you, just like any refined foods.  Including protein powder.  For NBE, and for health, the way to go is "low" protein.  By which I mean protein is in every food group so even if you tried to avoid protein on purpose you are likely to double your needs.  If it has DNA then it has protein.  Even fruit has some, and it all adds up.  And more importantly eat whole fresh foods.  If you switch to lots of refined carbs you won't be any better off.  There are plenty of other great diets that don't go against the recommendations of every major health/medical organization, general dietary guidelines and so on.  I'd try one of them.

[imbackagain]

Ive been doing high protein diets for years now starting when I was 16. I recently quit working out as much as well because I realized my breasts were much fuller on the weeks I didn’t workout heavy. I was also eating more Whole Foods those weeks and less protein intensive to focus on “gains.” Just realized there’s more to life than an extra inch of muscle on my legs.

I wonder if that’s what’s been holding me back all along. I hate to think I stunted my growth when I was younger.

Thanks for your response btw!

[Ohi]

For NBE, and for health, the way to go is "low" protein.  

Isn't protein pro-NBE because of amino acids and collagen for connective tissue?

[surferjoe2007]

For NBE, and for health, the way to go is "low" protein.  

Isn't protein pro-NBE because of amino acids and collagen for connective tissue?

The high sulfur aminos are but they're found more in animal collagen and bone broth.  Certain nuts have a bit.  Muscle meat, not so much.  Other protein you get plenty of.  Even with the correct sources like nuts, broth, collagen powder or MSM, once you get enough extra has no benefit.  Overall land meat, dairy and whey/soy protein powders tend to be nutrient poor foods lacking nutrients necessary for both health and NBE.  You should eat about 2 decks of cards worth of meat each day and it should be all seafood and eggs.

[imbackagain]

Hey surfer,

How much is known about trans-dermal application of herbs? I have left over natureday products. I really like using the lotion all over in the morning after I remove the BO mixture from my nipples. But the herbs it has internally would have complications and even be counterproductive while taking the BO. Here's what the listing has. I've been using it all month and still had good results but wonder if it could still be holding me back yet. I know we went over DQ and the one study linking to cancer. Maybe it would be safer to use a MSM cream or something aimed towards circulation?

NatureDay Lotion - Dong Quai, Blessed Thistle, Black Cohosh, Cumin, Wild Yam, Fennel, motherwort, Kava kava, Saw palmetto, Dandelion, fenugreek
Natureday Tincture - Saw palmetto, fennel,  fenugreek, dong quai, blessed thistle

[surferjoe2007]

Hey surfer,

How much is known about trans-dermal application of herbs? I have left over natureday products. I really like using the lotion all over in the morning after I remove the BO mixture from my nipples. But the herbs it has internally would have complications and even be counterproductive while taking the BO. Here's what the listing has. I've been using it all month and still had good results but wonder if it could still be holding me back yet. I know we went over DQ and the one study linking to cancer. Maybe it would be safer to use a MSM cream or something aimed towards circulation?

NatureDay Lotion - Dong Quai, Blessed Thistle, Black Cohosh, Cumin, Wild Yam, Fennel, motherwort, Kava kava, Saw palmetto, Dandelion, fenugreek
Natureday Tincture - Saw palmetto, fennel,  fenugreek, dong quai, blessed thistle

Oil soluble herbs absorb, water soluble don't.  However some substances are both water and oil soluble, and they still absorb.  That includes most herbs.  So you should use a lotion or oil to help carry it, not a tea.  Tinctures are often made with alcohol or glycerin, which is fine too.  One big issue is that it's hard to dissolve very much, so you can't get much of a dose of most herbs besides ones that have a very low dose, like PM, PC and saw palmetto extract.  And you need extracts; it's impossible to fit enough of any whole herb.  So usually it's better to combine anything topical with something oral, to make sure you get enough.  And any commercial cream that hasn't changed color from packing in the herbs, like a tea does, is suspicious.  It may not have much of anything at all in there.  Or some have 20 ingredients but the only one in sufficient amount is PM, and it's basically overpriced PM cream.  What you have there for Natureday isn't a full ingredients list.  A full ingredients list would tell what is in higher amounts.  I Googled the list and it has saw palmetto extract first and other extracts.  But all of them come after dimethicone, a small volume additive to make the lotion coat (similar to silicone oil or WD-40).  So probably only saw palmetto extract is significant and the other herbs are minor.  It seems overpriced for what you get and I wouldn't expect much from those amounts of herbs, but at least it isn't a total scam like many others.  If you already have it and are using it up I would take additional amounts of herbs orally, except for saw palmetto extract.  Dong quai is pretty far down the list and that study linking it to cancer is really weak, so I wouldn't worry too much if you're just using up old cream.  There are plenty of alternatives so you can simply avoid it in the future.  I wouldn't buy a new jar simply because it has little value for such a high price.

[bosekk]

Hey surfer,

How much is known about trans-dermal application of herbs? I have left over natureday products. I really like using the lotion all over in the morning after I remove the BO mixture from my nipples. But the herbs it has internally would have complications and even be counterproductive while taking the BO. Here's what the listing has. I've been using it all month and still had good results but wonder if it could still be holding me back yet. I know we went over DQ and the one study linking to cancer. Maybe it would be safer to use a MSM cream or something aimed towards circulation?

NatureDay Lotion - Dong Quai, Blessed Thistle, Black Cohosh, Cumin, Wild Yam, Fennel, motherwort, Kava kava, Saw palmetto, Dandelion, fenugreek
Natureday Tincture - Saw palmetto, fennel,  fenugreek, dong quai, blessed thistle

Oil soluble herbs absorb, water soluble don't.  However some substances are both water and oil soluble, and they still absorb.  That includes most herbs.  So you should use a lotion or oil to help carry it, not a tea.  Tinctures are often made with alcohol or glycerin, which is fine too.  One big issue is that it's hard to dissolve very much, so you can't get much of a dose of most herbs besides ones that have a very low dose, like PM, PC and saw palmetto extract.  And you need extracts; it's impossible to fit enough of any whole herb.  So usually it's better to combine anything topical with something oral, to make sure you get enough.  And any commercial cream that hasn't changed color from packing in the herbs, like a tea does, is suspicious.  It may not have much of anything at all in there.  Or some have 20 ingredients but the only one in sufficient amount is PM, and it's basically overpriced PM cream.  What you have there for Natureday isn't a full ingredients list.  A full ingredients list would tell what is in higher amounts.  I Googled the list and it has saw palmetto extract first and other extracts.  But all of them come after dimethicone, a small volume additive to make the lotion coat (similar to silicone oil or WD-40).  So probably only saw palmetto extract is significant and the other herbs are minor.  It seems overpriced for what you get and I wouldn't expect much from those amounts of herbs, but at least it isn't a total scam like many others.  If you already have it and are using it up I would take additional amounts of herbs orally, except for saw palmetto extract.  Dong quai is pretty far down the list and that study linking it to cancer is really weak, so I wouldn't worry too much if you're just using up old cream.  There are plenty of alternatives so you can simply avoid it in the future.  I wouldn't buy a new jar simply because it has little value for such a high price.

Hi Surferjoe,
Do you have any suggestions on choosing among liquid extract, essential oil, capsules, and dry herbs?
We were discussing a good FG massage oil. Some people heat the seeds in water/oil. I wonder if there is a mess free way to make it. Thanks

[imbackagain]

Hey surfer,

How much is known about trans-dermal application of herbs? I have left over natureday products. I really like using the lotion all over in the morning after I remove the BO mixture from my nipples. But the herbs it has internally would have complications and even be counterproductive while taking the BO. Here's what the listing has. I've been using it all month and still had good results but wonder if it could still be holding me back yet. I know we went over DQ and the one study linking to cancer. Maybe it would be safer to use a MSM cream or something aimed towards circulation?

NatureDay Lotion - Dong Quai, Blessed Thistle, Black Cohosh, Cumin, Wild Yam, Fennel, motherwort, Kava kava, Saw palmetto, Dandelion, fenugreek
Natureday Tincture - Saw palmetto, fennel,  fenugreek, dong quai, blessed thistle

Oil soluble herbs absorb, water soluble don't.  However some substances are both water and oil soluble, and they still absorb.  That includes most herbs.  So you should use a lotion or oil to help carry it, not a tea.  Tinctures are often made with alcohol or glycerin, which is fine too.  One big issue is that it's hard to dissolve very much, so you can't get much of a dose of most herbs besides ones that have a very low dose, like PM, PC and saw palmetto extract.  And you need extracts; it's impossible to fit enough of any whole herb.  So usually it's better to combine anything topical with something oral, to make sure you get enough.  And any commercial cream that hasn't changed color from packing in the herbs, like a tea does, is suspicious.  It may not have much of anything at all in there.  Or some have 20 ingredients but the only one in sufficient amount is PM, and it's basically overpriced PM cream.  What you have there for Natureday isn't a full ingredients list.  A full ingredients list would tell what is in higher amounts.  I Googled the list and it has saw palmetto extract first and other extracts.  But all of them come after dimethicone, a small volume additive to make the lotion coat (similar to silicone oil or WD-40).  So probably only saw palmetto extract is significant and the other herbs are minor.  It seems overpriced for what you get and I wouldn't expect much from those amounts of herbs, but at least it isn't a total scam like many others.  If you already have it and are using it up I would take additional amounts of herbs orally, except for saw palmetto extract.  Dong quai is pretty far down the list and that study linking it to cancer is really weak, so I wouldn't worry too much if you're just using up old cream.  There are plenty of alternatives so you can simply avoid it in the future.  I wouldn't buy a new jar simply because it has little value for such a high price.

Thanks so much! This helped my understanding a lot.

[Ohi]

Hey again, as you mentioned Ibutamoren and also have a thread on IGF I have another question popped up: in my country's articles it's higly advised to take it not every day but on 3/3, 4/4 etc regimen since they claim one gets used to the subtsance pretty fast and the effect stops. However, I havent really seen people mentioning it elsewhere, apart from general advice to cycle it eventually if you're using it long term. I believe you somewhat researched the topic so have you seen any significant scientific data to support the claim I read about (the necessity to have days-off every 3 days or so)? I wonder if it's just misinformation based on a single "study" or smth..
PS. I saw people mentioning strong cravings as a side effect, I've been taking it for 5 days so far and dont experience it at all, I wonder if it means it's not working or that my subtsance is bad.