[Shifa]

Hi Ladies,

Try adding vaseline to the nipples/areola before applying the KT tape, it comes off so much easier. " alt="" title="">  Koyasha, I predict you'll throw the soft ball out the window after trying the KT tape method. " alt="" title="">

I just tried KT and swelling is in a amazing shape. Can we keep it for one while day or more than a day rather that removing so often?

[sweetorange]

Hi Ladies,

Try adding vaseline to the nipples/areola before applying the KT tape, it comes off so much easier. " alt="" title="">  Koyasha, I predict you'll throw the soft ball out the window after trying the KT tape method. " alt="" title="">

I just tried KT and swelling is in a amazing shape. Can we keep it for one while day or more than a day rather that removing so often?

In theory it would be ok to have it 2 days or 3 at maximum. KT is used for muscle alignment and help with pain...

[Lotus]

Hi Lotus,

Thank you for this super informative thread! My cycle is usually around 35 days when not taking BCP, and my program contains BO, mk677, fish oil, WP, Reishi, and MSM. I'm ordering aloe vera and vitamin D3 after reading your post " alt="" title="">

I had a question that I hope you can shed some light on  " alt="" title="">

Can you source the paper on mk-677 inhibiting growth hormones? In this graph it seems that ibutamoren takes a few months to work but it increases both GH and IGF-1 

Hi nwyori, you're welcome.

To be honest I don't think MK-677 is relevant for NBE, meaning it hasn't produced any results. Though using exogenous IGF-1 type agents in general turns off GH signaling from what's called the negative feedback loop, simply put, once MK-677 reaches circulation its benefits are blocked at the HPA axis (hypothalamus/pituitary axis) via stimulation of somatostatin. It could be possible though to inhibit somatostatin in relation to MK-677. I wish people would stop using it and recommending it for NBE.

I have a better way to stimulate IGF-1, and it starts with stimulating the pituitary via the cAMP pathway. And actually Forskolin stimulates the pituitary, and along with stimulating GH secretion it stimulates estrogen via aromatase, and how forskolin stimulates the pituitary is from TRH (thyroid releasing hormone production). 

Though forskolin is inhibited (degraded) by PDEs (Phosphodiesterase), but...I know a way around the inhibition, and I'll explain this process in a follow up to this post. 

I would go after HGH during sleep, I'll make a follow up post covering this. 

Activating the cAMP pathway stimulates GH

Insulin-like Growth Factor I (IGF-I) inhibits GH secretion by a negative loop at both hypothalamic and pituitary levels.

In pituitary cells, Gs (G proteins) plays a central role in mediating cAMP pathway activation after stimulation by hormones, such as growth hormone (GH) and corticotroph-releasing hormone (CRH).

Dopamine and somatostatin inhibit forskolin-stimulated prolactin and growth hormone secretion but not stimulated cyclic AMP levels in sheep anterior pituitary cell cultures 

K P Ray et al. Mol Cell Endocrinol. 1986 May. 

Abstract 

Forskolin, an activator of adenylate cyclase, has been used to investigate the effects of raising pituitary cell cyclic AMP concentrations on prolactin and growth hormone secretion and to examine the role of cyclic AMP in the inhibitory actions of dopamine and somatostatin. Incubation of cultured ovine pituitary cells with forskolin (0.1-10 microM; 30 min) produced a modest dose-related increase in prolactin release (120-140% of basal) but a much greater stimulation of growth hormone secretion (170-420% of basal). Cellular cyclic AMP concentrations were only increased in the presence of 1 and 10 microM forskolin (2-5.5 times basal). A study of the time course for forskolin (10 microM) action showed that stimulation of prolactin (1.5-fold) and growth hormone (4.7-fold) secretion occurred over 15 min; subsequently (15-60 min) the rate of prolactin secretion from forskolin-treated cells was equivalent to that measured in controls, while growth hormone release remained elevated. Cellular cyclic AMP concentrations were also rapidly stimulated by forskolin (10 microM); they reached a maximum (12 times control) within 15 min, and then declined (15-60 min) but remained elevated relative to those in untreated cells (4.9 times control at 60 min). Dopamine (0.1 microM) inhibited basal secretion of both prolactin and growth hormone. In the presence of forskolin (0.1-10 microM), dopamine (0.1 microM) inhibited prolactin secretion to below the basal level and considerably attenuated the stimulation of growth hormone secretion. Similarly, somatostatin suppressed both basal and forskolin-induced prolactin and growth hormone secretion. However, neither dopamine nor somatostatin significantly decreased the stimulatory effect of forskolin on cellular cyclic AMP accumulation.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS) 

cAMP in the pituitary: an old messenger for multiple signals
https://jme.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/jme/52/1/R67.xml

Antibody experiments (1) have clearly shown that basal GH levels are elevated when somatostatin is neutralized. 

Somatomedin C has also been implicated in the negative feedback regulation of GH, at least partially by stimulating release of somatostatin (5). 
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100...-7886-4_18

Negative feedback regulation of pulsatile growth hormone secretion by insulin-like growth factor I. Involvement of hypothalamic somatostatin 

M Bermann et al. J Clin Invest. 1994 Jul. 

Free PMC article 

Abstract 

To investigate the mechanisms of the negative feedback inhibition of growth hormone (GH) secretion by IGF-I, we studied parameters of GH pulsatility in six normal, fed men before and during a 48-h infusion of recombinant human IGF-I (rhIGF-I) (10-15 micrograms/kg per h). Plasma levels of IGF-I increased from the baseline value of 163.5 +/- 9.3 micrograms/liter (mean +/- SE) to a new steady state of 452.0 +/- 20.9 micrograms/liter during the infusion. Plasma GH concentrations were measured every 10 min for 24 h during both saline and rhIGF-I infusions using a sensitive chemiluminescent assay. Overall, GH concentrations were suppressed during the rhIGF-I infusion by 85 +/- 3%, mainly by attenuating spontaneous GH pulse amplitude (77 +/- 4% suppression). The apparent GH pulse frequency was attenuated from 7.8 +/- 0.9 to 4.7 +/- 0.6 pulses/24 h (P = 0.006). Administration of rhIGF suppressed GH responses to exogenous GH-releasing hormone by 82 +/- 3%, and thyroid-stimulating hormone responses to thyrotropin-releasing hormone were also suppressed by 44 +/- 9%. This constellation of hormonal effects is most compatible with the rhIGF-I-induced stimulation of hypothalamic somatostatin secretion. 
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7913710/

[sweetorange]

I bought mk677 for myself- at first because I wanted to give a try in NBE terms but I realised if I was not taking anything hormonal it would not help me to grow my breasts. The first month I took it with BO nipple and yes, I felt soreness but it was just for a month (Run out of BO at that time).

In fitness, it helps with eating and sleeping plus you concentrate more nitrogen = more easy for bulking. Besides these three benefits, I didn't see any much. I took 10mg for four months.

I still have a bottle left - 90 days at 10mg (except period days). 

[sweetorange]

PS: (very important one)

Ellen (MissMadScientist) had a huge success with her BO program not just because BO - she was taking BCP, BO, ibutamoren and TAGAMET. Last week I realised thats the med my mom uses for gastric acid issues and my mind *blew up* in the moment.

This question is for Lotus: did she touch every-single-botton (estrogen+antiandrogen+growth hormone) for her huge growth? " alt="" title=""> 

[EllaC]

So I’m actually really slim and above average tall. All I’ve been doing is aloe Vera at night and not even every day. I lost 4 kgs due to lockdown putting me at the smallest I’ve almost ever been weight wise.  Those veterans who know me will see my breasts have never stuck like they are now. Esp due to my low weight. 
I’m also using a estrogen metabolizing supplement to get mine in the right direction cause it’s all off. I’m suprused how big I feel considering massive weight loss, you guys know and have seen my figure. I’m a huge proponent of the aloe Vera rub at night now. Get a pure source obviously . I’ve been so consumed with lockdowns I’ve not entertained lotuses supplement regime. Haven’t needed too lol aloe Vera gel...

For those of you who’ve known me fir years you’ll see the change, no push up bras in play. You’ll see I’ve slimmed down , not by choice but lockdowns will do that to you
I’ve got more density if you will. I see a deeper crease up in the boobs than I’ve ever had esp given stress of lockdowns. I’ve lost heaps .

[koyasha]

I am using the KT for the first time as I am typing this and I have to say it works great! I had the same question as Shifa, glad she already asked it :-) I will have to remove it when massaging anyway, so I don't think I'll leave it on for too long.

EllaC, your breasts look great to me and I can see what you mean about the crease, but I haven't known you for as long as the others, so I haven't seen a lot of pics to you.

One thing I don't understand is how lockdown made you lose so much weight, if anything, it made me gain. I've lost the weight again so I hope you will be able to put on weight again once this is over!

[EllaC]

Hey Lotus 
What do you think about white peony for myself ? For me it being able to balance the immune system and reduce inflammatory markers is exactly what I need right now. HOWEVER I also need to be careful with estrogen. When I use this expensive estrogen metabolizing supplement my period is a different experience. 

If not stick to turmeric? And dim / Vitex for the Estrogen metabolizing ?

@koyosha thank you. Yeh to me lockdown equals stress equals not eating

[Lotus]

Hi Ladies,

Try adding vaseline to the nipples/areola before applying the KT tape, it comes off so much easier. " alt="" title="">  Koyasha, I predict you'll throw the soft ball out the window after trying the KT tape method. " alt="" title="">

I just tried KT and swelling is in a amazing shape. Can we keep it for one while day or more than a day rather that removing so often?

Hi Shifa, that's great news about the swelling. The longest I kept the KT tape on after pumping was about 24hrs. My thinking was wanting to see if there was any benefit keeping the KT tape on after a pump session, in my opinion it does help. 

Good Luck,
L. 

[Lotus]

PS: (very important one)

Ellen (MissMadScientist) had a huge success with her BO program not just because BO - she was taking BCP, BO, ibutamoren and TAGAMET. Last week I realised thats the med my mom uses for gastric acid issues and my mind *blew up* in the moment.

This question is for Lotus: did she touch every-single-botton (estrogen+antiandrogen+growth hormone) for her huge growth? " alt="" title=""> 

Hard to say, I never actually saw a photo to confirm said growth. For breast growth estrogen, progesterone, growth hormone (GH), insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), and prolactin need to be present. Back in the day people (Tibetan, Jennifer, Bonita, Cece, Ella, and others) actually posted photos so folks could correlate growth towards developing their own programs. Some shared photos wearing a bra while others didn't...I don't doubt growth occurred, I just never saw it. Look, don't get me wrong, Miss Ellen is a nice person, so nuff said. 

Taking MK-677 carries risks. See there's a chance taking IGF-1 elevates breast hyperplasia and cancer. In luteal phase IGF-1 is naturally produced, people don't talk about this though. IGF-1 locally in the breast were doubled in the luteal, when estradiol and progesterone levels were elevated, compared with the follicular phase. 

So like I said, I'd rather see cis-females get IGF-1 naturally as opposed to supplementing with IGF-1. Just inhibit somatostatin and stimulate pituitary GH and you'll see IGF-1 come around. 

Increase of Free Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 in Normal Human Breast in vivo Late in the Menstrual Cycle

The results showed that the extracellular levels of free IGF-1 locally in the breast were doubled in the luteal phase, when estradiol and progesterone levels were elevated, compared with the follicular phase. In plasma, free IGF-1 levels also exhibited a cyclic variation but to a lesser extent. The increased local levels of the free form of IGF-1 may promote proliferation in the breast epithelium. This could be important in sex steroid dependent breast cancer development.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.102...4575103524

The role of the insulin-like growth factor-1 system in breast cancer

Although many of the relevant molecular pathways and intracellular cascades remain to be elucidated, a growing body of evidence points to the important role of the IGF-1 system in breast cancer development, progression and metastasis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4335664/



Growth Hormone and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-I in the Transition from Normal Mammary Development to Preneoplastic Mammary Lesions

For example, systemic administration of GH or IGF-I causes mammary hyperplasia, and overproduction of IGF-I in transgenic animals can cause the development of usual or atypical hyperplasias and sometimes carcinoma.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...po=63.1915