[Stargirl88]

Thank you for your recommendations and very fast response surferjoe2007 ??

Hi surferjoe2007 thank you for sharing a lot of information with us. You are really knowledgeable..

Can I ask you a favor, to check that my routine is good enough?

My height 166 cm and weight 51 kg.

I’m quite skinny.. My size is AA/small A. I want to increase my small bust to look good before my wedding. I’m not expected to much, full A or B is enough.

Anw, this is my routine

Morning:

Probiotic supplement

A scoop of Collagen powder + drink

Afternoon:

250 mg Shatavari (25% shaponin-1 caps)

1000 IU Vit D (1 cape)

500 mg Vit C (1 caps)

Night:

250 mg Shatavari (25% shaponin-1 caps)

400 mg Vitex (1 caps)

A glass of milk + honey

• Almost everyday, I do some chest exercise to make make my breast firm.
  
• Everynight I massage my breast using Chiyomilk and Reiki method with Pueraria oil.

Fyi, I already taken pueraria supplement few months ago, but it messed my cycle really bad. So I stop taking PM.

I’m planning to add your nut mix to my daily routine.

Question:

1. Is my routine good enough? Or what can I improve to achieve my goal?

2. Can I get 50% shaponin by multiply my Shatavari intake? Its kinda hard to get Shavatari supplement with high shaponins in my place

Thats my question.

Sorry if I make a lot of grammatical error, English is not my first language.

Thank you for your kindness ^^

It is much more difficult when starting from AA.  You’ll want the foods in my signature threads first and that may take many months. Since you only need a full A or more try this: - Herbs don’t hurt, but plan on them not working until after many months on the foods to be on the safe side.  25% saponin shatavari is fine, you just use twice as much.  You probably want to continue to stay away from PM for now.  Likewise try the foods and hope they work in time for the wedding, but don’t count on it.  Instead you will probably need the methods below. - Pumping. - Massage with flax seed oil. - Google how to do dumbbell chest presses on a bench.  8 reps per set, 3 sets, 1 minute rest between sets.  2 days between workouts, so 3 times a week.  Use enough weight to make you a little sore at the end, and increase weight as needed.  A machine also works but you must have weights or resistance to build size.  5g creatine and 2g HMB help a lot if you can find them.  So does eating lots of starches a couple hours before the workout, or at least a little starches a little before.  You don’t need a lot of protein.  You can get plenty from a little food afterwards.  It won’t make your boobs bigger but it will make the muscle underneath your boobs bigger and that can be enough for 1 or 2 cup sizes, even if pumping and massage fails.  But it takes a lot of work and a few months. - You might find a plumping cream that adds about 1/4 of a cup immediately, since every little bit helps.  An irritant such as muscle rub (icy hot, regular strength tiger balm, etc) might help immediate swelling too but it has a strong smell so up to you.  Test and see if either or both work right away. - You may want to simply use a push-up bra and/or padding or stuffing.  There are many more tricks on YouTube. - If all of that fails and you only need it for 1 day then forums.newart.com has information on saline injections.  Everything must be super sterile and you must be extremely careful or you can hurt yourself badly with a serious infection.  Ideally only a nurse or doctor should handle needles, or you should have proper training on safety.  And if you use too much saline it can look like a silly balloon.  Do a practice day once or twice many days before the wedding.  Avoid this option if you can, but if done correctly it should be safe like any other injection.

[Tati321]

Hi Joe,

I´ve read the whole thread with recommendations and your suggested programm.

I´ve been using different herbs in the past years but without any success. I think thats because of 

impatientness. Most time I gave up after 2 month taking herbs and without seeing any changes. I´ve also tested BO for the last 2 month and again without any success. So I did a break for 1,5 month and 

two weeks ago I decided to give your programm a try.

But I´m not sure whether my programm is lead to bring results or do I need to change something? What do you think?

My current routine:

Morning:

1x 500mg PM (with some warm milk) from day 2-14

MSM with Vitamin C (2gr.)

1 table spoon flaxseed oil

Noon:

2x 250mg (40% Saponins) Shatavari (whole cycle)

1x Saw palmetto

1 x 2000mg Vitamin D

1 Fish oil

Evening:

2x 250mg (40% Saponins) Shatavari  (whole cycle)

1/4 tsp. PC

Also I´m drinking 2-3 cups of spearmint tea troughout the day.
Btw. I´m a small B.

[Redjane2]

I was trying the major growth method from the NBE guide and had some questions

Herbs:
Increase each cycle, allowing 2-4 cycles before the max amount.  If less growth is desired, stop the PM and PC at a lower amount.

50% saponin shatavari extract:  600 mg increased to 1,800-2,400 mg.
Saw palmetto extract: 320 mg.
Pueraria mirifica: Follicular, 100 mg increased to 750-1,000 mg.  Luteal, 100 mg.
Progesterone cream: Follicular, 1/8 tsp.  Luteal: 1/4 tsp increased to 3/4-1 tsp.
Massage at least 3-4 times a week with flax oil, for 10-15 minutes.
Optional: 3-10g maca (about 1-3 tsp) for the butt.  Also optional weighted squats with 5g creatine.

______________________



You mention Vitex as a sub for PC

Vitex: 1/16-1/8 tsp progesterone cream. 

What would the recommended amounts for this plan?



Have you made any changes or updates that you would recommend to this plan?

Also have you heard of OvaBlend by Vitanica, saw a post on another forum where a girl had substantial growth in less than two months but looking at the ingredients it doesn't seem like it has anything that is common use here.  Thought you might want to look into the ingredients.

[surferjoe2007]

I was trying the major growth method from the NBE guide and had some questions

Herbs:
Increase each cycle, allowing 2-4 cycles before the max amount.  If less growth is desired, stop the PM and PC at a lower amount.

50% saponin shatavari extract:  600 mg increased to 1,800-2,400 mg.
Saw palmetto extract: 320 mg.
Pueraria mirifica: Follicular, 100 mg increased to 750-1,000 mg.  Luteal, 100 mg.
Progesterone cream: Follicular, 1/8 tsp.  Luteal: 1/4 tsp increased to 3/4-1 tsp.
Massage at least 3-4 times a week with flax oil, for 10-15 minutes.
Optional: 3-10g maca (about 1-3 tsp) for the butt.  Also optional weighted squats with 5g creatine.

______________________



You mention Vitex as a sub for PC

Vitex: 1/16-1/8 tsp progesterone cream. 

What would the recommended amounts for this plan?



Have you made any changes or updates that you would recommend to this plan?

Also have you heard of OvaBlend by Vitanica, saw a post on another forum where a girl had substantial growth in less than two months but looking at the ingredients it doesn't seem like it has anything that is common use here.  Thought you might want to look into the ingredients.

If you want major growth then vitex is not a great substitute for PC because it can only replace a small amount, no matter how much vitex you use.  If you do go this route then you would also reduce to 100-200 mg PM to keep it all balanced.  More PM might be possible but there is risk of imbalance.

Plan still seems as good as anything recent I’ve posted.  In my sig thread there is an update for alternate food options in case you have difficulty with the original food options or if you want something a little better but more difficult.

I took a brief look at ovablend.  They use extracts, which is good.  The saw palmetto and sarsaparilla have a small effect on nbe.  Cinammon helps with insulin and maybe a little with igf-1 too.  Searching indicates all that may be a minor help in ways not found in many nbe programs, so it could be added to other measures.  I’m not the most familiar with the ingredients so I’m not sure.

[ShelaVenna]

What exactly do you mean when you say that saponins sensitize us to our own hormones? I tried looking into this but I’m still a bit confused. What is the mechanism of action? Thanks in advance.

[surferjoe2007]

What exactly do you mean when you say that saponins sensitize us to our own hormones? I tried looking into this but I’m still a bit confused. What is the mechanism of action? Thanks in advance.

Various studies show fenugreek mainly affects female hormones only in women, male hormones only in men, insulin in both and lactation hormones in nursing mothers (but not other women).  It may increase the effects of luteinizing hormone in the ovaries or testicles, causing more hormones to be released there.  It also seems to improve overall hormone balance.  And it may do more beyond that, but I’m not sure.  But it seems like whatever hormones you have naturally you get more of their effects.

[Redjane2]

Option 2, Major Growth, or Growth starting Smaller than B Cup (Around 4-8 cup sizes)

If you are starting smaller, use the foods below for up to 6 months before beginning.  You may try herbs after as little as 2 months, but you might be wasting the herbs and should not increase beyond a low amount until you start to grow.  If you are starting with at least a B cup, you may use both the herbs and the foods below right away.  Continue both indefinitely.

Herbs:
Increase each cycle, allowing 2-4 cycles before the max amount.  If less growth is desired, stop the PM and PC at a lower amount.

• 50% saponin shatavari extract:  600 mg increased to 1,800-2,400 mg.
  
• Saw palmetto extract: 320 mg.
  
• Pueraria mirifica: Follicular, 100 mg increased to 750-1,000 mg.  Luteal, 100 mg.
  
• Progesterone cream: Follicular, 1/8 tsp.  Luteal: 1/4 tsp increased to 3/4-1 tsp.
  
• Massage at least 3-4 times a week with flax oil, for 10-15 minutes.
  
• Optional: 3-10g maca (about 1-3 tsp) for the butt.  Also optional weighted squats with 5g creatine.

On my second month of Option 2 and entering the Luteal phase and noticed some discharge and I feel like I smell a bit as well.  Anything I should adjust?  I'm also taking MSM and I take the PM at night, not sure if it makes a difference morning or night.  So far I haven't seen any noticeable growth.

[surferjoe2007]

I don’t know much about that.  Might be normal, might be an infection, or might be hormonal.  You might try continuing the foods while reducing the herbs to be safe.  Pineapple juice might help the smell if it’s not an infection.  Other than that you may want to research a bit yourself.

While many people grow right away, many don’t.  Especially those that aren’t large to begin with.  Be patient for at least 4 months before expecting NBE results, and take measurements and/or pictures for yourself in case changes are too gradual to notice at first.

[princessxo]

Whew. Thanks for this post and for discussing the research, studies, and databases you've used to put this together. Can't wait for the stuff I've ordered to get here!

[ShelaVenna]

Hi Joe. I hope you don’t mind me posting this question here. I think it’s somewhat relevant to this thread.

I know that oral estrogen supplementation lowers Igf-1 production. Do you know if any phytoestrogens have ever been shown or suspected to do the same? Especially pueraria mirifica? How much do you think circulating igf-1 really matters for breast growth (as opposed to local production)? I’m asking because I saw a reddit post about igf-1 by an endo that specializes in trans hrt. He said that he experimented with giving igf-1 to some of his patients, but he felt that it didn’t improve breast growth at all. I know you had another thread about women that injected igf-1 into their breasts. The only link you posted is broken, or maybe that post was removed from their forum. Do you have any links to reports of women doing this? If you don’t feel comfortable posting it here, please pm me. I’m asking this because, if the results of such an extreme method are less than stellar, that would be a very strong indication that focusing on igf-1 production is misguided. I’ve suspected for a long time that low igf-1 might be one of the main reasons my other nbe attempts failed, but now I’m not so sure. It would be nice to know whether or not I’m barking up the wrong tree.

One more question, lol. I know I already asked about fenugreek/shatavari saponins, but I read some things that I’d like to ask you about. I used to see people claiming that fenugreek raises the ceiling of the estrogen negative feedback loop, and that’s supposedly it’s main mechanism of action. I think I remember Wahaika being one of the main proponents of this theory, but it was ages ago, so I’m not sure. Would you say you agree with that idea? If so, why?

Sorry for bothering you again. Hopefully you at least find this interesting to think about.

EDIT: I just saw a study claiming that supplementing with “weak” phytoestrogens, like the ones in soy and flax, actually increases igf-1. Of course that doesn’t mean that stronger phytoestrogens are the same. I’m still pretty confused.