[Polly]

Hi Skarlyw, what do you eat in a day/week?

PROPER NUTRITION is definitely an important building block for NBE!

I starded NBE at 30 inches and 88lb 

I'm currently at 33 inches by gaining 16lb.

[surferjoe2007]

Overview
My current job is paying well and I'm a bit short on time so I've decided to step away from putting a product on ebay.  Plus what I have is simple and easy to get elsewhere, albeit at a higher price.  I have one last jar listed on ebay.

So now this is what this post is for, a program that is simple, easy and cheap to do while giving the most results for that effort.  It is based on basic biology and what I have seen work well for many women.  I provide example solutions for each goal, but I believe every program must address these goals whether you use my solutions or come up with your own.

How Breasts Normally Grow
Normal, natural breast growth comes primarily from estrogen and progesterone while not having too much testosterone.  Other lesser factors include prolactin, human growth hormone, insulin, IGF and thyroid hormone.  However most women who are naturally huge are this way because they are more sensitive to these hormones rather than having high hormone levels.  This will be a key point later.

Breasts are made of fat, connective tissue and milk ducts.  A wide variety of nutrients are also essential for breast growth, nearly every nutrient imaginable.  While natural sizes may vary I don't believe anyone is naturally below an A cup.  It makes no biological sense.  More likely being flat comes from a hormone imbalance or some kind of nutritional deficiency.

Proper Nutrition
That brings me to the first and most important part of an NBE program: proper nutrition.  If you are in good health and already have some breast size to work with this step is less important.  But even then nutrition can only help not hurt, and good nutrition is good for your health in general.  If you are flat chested, underweight or have a hormonal imbalance this should be the first step or nothing else may work.  You can't make a house without tools and wood (nutrition), no matter how much you yell at the workers (hormones).

I have put together some foods that provide complete nutrition and you may verify this by looking them up at the USDA nutrient database: http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list
Mix equal parts spirulina powder, brewer's yeast powder and rice bran.  Blend 1/4 cup in a glass of juice with a blender, twice a day.  When first starting use only a spoonful, then gradually increase to the full amount as you get used to it.  Also consume once a day 2 tsp. fish oil, 1/4 cup sunflower seeds, and 1 white button mushroom, or any other mushroom.  Have a dish of oysters every 1-2 weeks.  A simple recipe is 4 oz oysters, 1/8 cup white wine, 1 clove minced garlic, heat until garlic is tender.  Get a kelp seasoning shaker or iodized salt.  Get a little bit of a tan or else take a 2,000 i.u. vitamin D supplement.

Since breasts contain a great deal of fat and connective tissue, having a healthy weight is also important.  As are healthy fats which are already included above.  Taking 3,000 mg MSM is helpful to build connective tissue because the sulfur cross-links protein into hard rubbery connective tissue for size, support, lift and springiness.

Herbs
You don't need 20 herbs for a good NBE program.  The simplest solution is to get one for each hormone.

Hormone Sensitivity: As I pointed out above this is the #1 factor for large breasts.  Herbs that promote hormone sensitivity also tend to promote hormonal balance rather than potentially imbalancing hormones.  They show miniscule or no toxicity in studies even at extreme amounts and in fact have many health benefits.  Herbs in this category are those that contain steroidal saponins including fenugreek, wild yam, shatavari and goat's rue.  Typical amounts used in programs, studies and traditional recommendations are about 2,000 to 25,000 mg, though 6,000 mg and up is better.  This is key to remember as not all herbs are the same.  500 mg may be high for one and 100,000 mg may be low for another.  The simplest solution I've found here is to find a 50% saponin extract and take 300-1200 mg.  You can find them for fenugreek and shatavari.  Shatavari is more expensive but it doesn't give you a maple smell.  Because it is such a concentrated extract that's all you need.  Again not all herbs are the same and extracts can be more potent than whole herbs, depending on the strength of the extract.  Be sure it says "##% saponins" so you know it's strong, or more herb may be required.  While more is not necessarily more effective for all herbs,  it is for saponins.  And unlike herbs that have a direct hormonal effect you cannot really imbalance yourself with these herbs because they merely increase the response to your existing hormones.  So work up to 900-1200 mg as soon as you can.

While generally tolerable and healthy, there are two common problems with saponin herbs.  Due to the high amount some women may get an upset stomach.  A 50% saponin extract avoids this and it's more convenient since it only takes 1-4 capsules.  Since they also increase sensitivity to the hormone insulin, hypoglycemics may not tolerate them well even at a lower amount.  Again if you get good nutrition then health problems like this are unlikely to be an obstacle.

Estrogen: There are a wide variety of herbs for estrogen but they all work nearly the same way so I say go with the most bang for the buck, pueraria mirifica.  There isn't much difference between taking a small amount of a potent phytoestrogen or a large amount of a weak phytoestrogen.  There are in fact many menopausal studies using 25-50 mg pueraria mirifica.  And up to 100 mg it does not need to be cycled, just as the weaker herbs don't need to be cycled.  Again not all herbs are the same and you shouldn't jump straight to 1,000 mg PM as if it was no big deal or as if it were the same as 1,000 mg of any other herb.  I have seen hormonal issues time and again in these forums from doing this, whereas those taking even 2 tablespoons of fenugreek (or a little bit of a potent extract) are often without complaints even after a long period of time.  And their programs tend to also have good success.  So in my opinion use only 50-100 mg pueraria mirifica, if any, and use more only if you know you have low estrogen or if you carefully balance it out with progesterone cream.  But this is a guessing game and it is better to try a large amount of a saponin before a large amount of a phytoestrogen.  Those who area already top heavy tend to have high progesterone and so respond better to pueraria mirifica than others.  Whereas those who are flat and bottom heavy don't respond that well.  Even then a hormone test is the only way to be sure.  Or you may accidentally inhibit NBE and cause hormonal problems with PM if you are not careful.

Progesterone:  There are many herbs that are called phytoprogestins, but I have never found a single one that strongly acts like progesterone.  There are some herbs such as vitex or saponins that may indirectly raise progesterone slighty or increase sensitivity to progesterone (and to other hormones).  Your only serious option here is progesterone cream.  I have read about many people try to balance out pueraria mirifica with vitex or fenugreek and it only leads to estrogen dominance.  Again without careful testing you can only guess and more might hurt instead of help.  So I suggest 1/8 tsp. once a day, if any.  If you get a hormone test and find estrogen dominance then use more.  Or many who are bottom heavy and flat-chested response very well to larger amounts of progesterone cream.  For every story of a large chested girl rapidly getting larger with pueraria mirifica alone, I read one of a flat chested girl rapidly getting C cups on progesterone cream alone.  Not on these forums unfortunately; but elsewhere.  This is a bad trend because many users keep using more and more PM and make NBE worse not better.  But again a hormone test is the only way to be sure.  Or you may accidentally inhibit NBE and cause hormonal problems with PC if you are not careful.

Also consider the estrogen in your birth control pill, if any.  Even combination bcp is primarily estrogen.  Or consider the progestin in all progestin birth control.  Whatever it has is probably a lot compared to supplements, even on a low dose.

I see too many forum girls use PM "for NBE" and something minor to try to keep their hormone balance barely under control in spite of the PM.  The PM is much stronger than the something else, hormone imbalance gets worse and this is anti-NBE not pro-NBE.  Hormone balance and NBE are not two conflicting goals; they are the same goal.  If anything someone estrogen dominant should be doing all PC and zero PM not only for balance but also for NBE.  Then continue with lots of PC and add in a little PM.  Not lots of PM and a little PC.  Just because PM was superb for NBE for someone with different hormones doesn't mean it will be with your hormones.  For you it may have the opposite effect and fight against NBE.  And vis versa.  PC may halt NBE for some while PM alone may be superb for them.  Then likewise after a while they should add little PC to their PM.

Testosterone: There are many herbs that lower testosterone.  Because this is a major goal of many transgender people, there is far more information in that section than I know.  But I suggest 1 320 mg capsule of saw palmetto extract because it is simple and concentrated.  And because it lowers DHT rather than lowering all testosterone.  DHT is the testosterone responsible for acne, facial hair and so on.  Plus in women if testosterone does not become DHT then it may become estrogen instead.  Whereas substances that lower all testosterone production may also lower estrogen, because estrogen is made from testosterone.  I also suggest saw palmetto extract because it has a long history in NBE programs and has several long term large participant human studies confirming its safety.  In rare cases you may lower testosterone too much and lose your libido, in which case you should not use saw palmetto extract or anything that lowers testosterone.  Besides libido, a small amount of testosterone is important for good health in women.  Again do not confuse saw palmetto extract with saw palmetto.  320 mg saw palmetto extract is much more than 320 mg saw palmetto.  Likewise it must be around 90% fatty acids or you need more, but unlike saponin extracts this high concentration is common and you don't need to search as hard to find a strong extract.

Prolactin, human growth hormone, insulin, IGF, etc.: Since these are minor I will not cover these.  Plus saponins may increase sensitivity to these enough that providing them directly is not necessary.  But if you wish to research and find supplements for these it may help a little.

Pectoral Muscle
Building pectoral muscles provides lift.  And it provides muscle mass which of course does not sag.  This and connective tissue provide perkiness.  With enough muscle bulk you can even go up a cup size.  Weight with few reps provides more bulk than unweighted exercises with many reps.  One simple way is to bench press.  3 sets, 10 repetitions per set.  3 days a week, resting every other day.  Though I am sure there are exercise gurus who can provide better pectoral muscle programs if you want to get serious.

Massage, Pumping
Honestly I never understood the motivation behind massaging and pumping because they are so time consuming.  Especially whenever I am managing my time and measuring the hours now.  For the most part I will omit them even though they do work.  However massage benefits those experiencing rapid growth because it relieves soreness and because a good moisturizer or oil prevents stretch marks.  It may also be good for breast health.


Summary
The key components of the example program are:
1.  Nutritional mix (see above).
2.  3,000 mg MSM.
3.  300-1200 mg 50% saponin fenugreek or shatavari extract.  Ramp up after a couple weeks or so.
4.  50-100 mg pueraria mirifica (optional).  Cycling is not necessary.  Use more if already top heavy, or if carefully balanced with progesterone (both your tested levels and progesterone cream).  If you use more then you usually cycle it.
5.  1/8 tsp progesterone cream or 500 mg vitex (optional).  Cycling is not necessary.  Use more PC (and not vitex) if already bottom heavy, or if carefully balanced with estrogen (both your tested levels and a phytoestrogen such as pueraria mirifica).  If you use more then you usually cycle it.
6.  1 320 mg capsule saw palmetto extract.  Omit if libido disappears or if it seems unnecessary.
7.  Bench press.  Optional, but if you already go to the gym you may as well because it is quick. 3 sets, 10 repetitions per set.  3 days a week, resting every other day.
8.  If sore or getting rapid results, massage with a moisturizer or oil.

There, powerful, simple, cheap, good for you, doesn't take much time, doesn't fill a cabinet full of bottles and doesn't usually cause uncomfortable issues.  Since most of these are also beneficial for other aspects of health and aren't labeled as breast enhancement, they also don't embarrass you if found.  Except PM which is easy to conceal.  The nutrition may seem bulkier and more expensive, but because it takes the place of other food the net effect on groceries is not much.  And those in good health with at least large A cups or larger don't strictly need it, though it is always nice.

Perhaps one day I will dig through my notes and websites for the references but again my time is limited.  Pubmed.gov is nice for finding studies, as is searching for personal experiences in various forums and blogs including this forum.  They are valuable because they are less likely to be biased with little to gain from writing them.  "Product reviews" and product descriptions should be confirmed with other more reliable sources of information.

I hope this was beneficial to everyone and good luck.

Is it okay to take PM on your menstrual cycle? I have heard it can mess with it. Also can you take fenugreek with PM? I don’t want to become estrogen dominant

For more than 100 mg PM it is common to take it only during the first half of your cycle, starting with your period, to avoid delaying your next period.  Some women prefer to start 1 or 2 days after to ease into it better since natural estrogen is also rising at the same time.

Yes you can take fenugreek with PM and it usually balances out your hormones if anything, rather than cause dominance.  In addition to estrogen it affects progesterone, prolactin, insulin, HGH and probably a few more things.

It seems like I didn’t notice a few posts until now.  I’ll double check my notification settings.

[GlitterTits]

Hi! New here. Found you here from your prompt on reddit. I realize this is an old thread, but I thought I'd ask anyway.  I was interested in your comment about perkiness. I'm fine with my breast size, but was wondering if you have any suggestions for herbs/supplements for skin tightening/lifting?

[surferjoe2007]

Hi! New here. Found you here from your prompt on reddit. I realize this is an old thread, but I thought I'd ask anyway.  I was interested in your comment about perkiness. I'm fine with my breast size, but was wondering if you have any suggestions for herbs/supplements for skin tightening/lifting?

I’ve been working on a revised nbe guide.  Here’s a section for now.  For skin tightening you can also check out lotion forums for the best ingredients to look for in lotions or to diy and add to a lotion you already have.  I’m still reading up on that topic myself.

How do I increase perkiness?

• Collagen fuel/perkiness: 3,000 mg MSM.  However there is already enough in the foods I suggest.
  
• Make shape wider/rounder instead of longer/pointy (only if this is an issue for you): 1 capsule vitex (precise dose is not important).  If not enough then you can use progesterone cream instead, but guess and test the amount because too much might make breasts shrink instead of grow.  Unless complemented with estrogen, whether from a pre-existing high estrogen:progesterone ratio or from herbs.  Then it’s super good for growth.  Low progesterone sag is also common a while after giving birth, whether or not you breast feed.
  
• Collagen stimulation / perkiness: 8% matrixyl 3000 serum applied externally, or aloe fresh off the plant, or eat 4 oz or 100g aloe inner leaf fresh off the plant (no green parts).  Matrixyl is easiest if you can get it.  Old aloe off the store shelves doesn’t work.  Matrixyl only works on skin though, it doesn’t go deeper.  Not sure about aloe.
  
• Collagen exercise / perkiness: Go braless whenever you can, except use a strong sports bra during cardio
  
• Lift, little bit more volume (from muscle not the actual breasts): Pectoral muscle exercises with weights or machine resistance.  For example dumbbell bench press.  Twice a week, 3 sets, 6-8 reps per set, 1 min rest in between.  Or optionally you can do squats in between instead of a rest with the same weights and 8-10 reps.  Also take 5g creatine and 2,000 mg HMB if working out.  This is very helpful but optional IMO because it’s a lot of work.
  
• NBE growth in general helps a great deal with perkiness due to the balloon effect, however this is temporary because the skin will catch up.  Likewise don’t be too discouraged from the deflated look after weight loss.  Your skin will usually catch up eventually.  This is why I focused less on growth in this section.
  

[BlushyGhxst]

Hey SurferJoe! Your threads are always amazing and comprehensive, I want to try and focus a little more on nutrition and things I can add to help NBE as well as my general health, I'm on a bit of a tight budget lately but hopefully that's sorted out soon.

This is my current program:

10-15 minute massage with flaxseed oil at night
2 250mg BO tablets at night
2 2000mg Fenugreek tablets at night
3 1000mg Flaxseed oil capsules at night

My preferred way to take them is by having them mixed in with 2% fat milk quick oats (like 1/4th of a cup), I've considered switching to soy milk as I've heard that's better for NBE than cow's milk 


I've also considered going back to 1 250mg BO tablet but I've noticed that the 2 BO tablets have really helped with my period cramps. They used to render me unable to move but now I can get through the day with a few pain meds than a potential trip to the ER. 

I'm considering changing my program to this:

10-15 minute massage with flaxseed oil at night
15 minute pump session with subluminals to help relax and meditate 
2 250mg BO tablets at night
2 2000mg Fenugreek tablets at night
3 1000mg Flaxseed oil capsules at night
2 1000mg MSM capsules at night
1 cup of Soy Milk throughout the day
1/4 cup of almonds throughout the day
1/4 cup of pumpkin seeds throughout the day

I've also considered adding whole grains and more broccoli into my diet, just not sure how/with what or if it'd help. I've also been adding weight lifting into my nightly routine as well.
I want to be sure I get the most of this since I'm on such a firm budget. Thanks!

[surferjoe2007]

Hey SurferJoe! Your threads are always amazing and comprehensive, I want to try and focus a little more on nutrition and things I can add to help NBE as well as my general health, I'm on a bit of a tight budget lately but hopefully that's sorted out soon.

This is my current program:

10-15 minute massage with flaxseed oil at night
2 250mg BO tablets at night
2 2000mg Fenugreek tablets at night
3 1000mg Flaxseed oil capsules at night

My preferred way to take them is by having them mixed in with 2% fat milk quick oats (like 1/4th of a cup), I've considered switching to soy milk as I've heard that's better for NBE than cow's milk 


I've also considered going back to 1 250mg BO tablet but I've noticed that the 2 BO tablets have really helped with my period cramps. They used to render me unable to move but now I can get through the day with a few pain meds than a potential trip to the ER. 

I'm considering changing my program to this:

10-15 minute massage with flaxseed oil at night
15 minute pump session with subluminals to help relax and meditate 
2 250mg BO tablets at night
2 2000mg Fenugreek tablets at night
3 1000mg Flaxseed oil capsules at night
2 1000mg MSM capsules at night
1 cup of Soy Milk throughout the day
1/4 cup of almonds throughout the day
1/4 cup of pumpkin seeds throughout the day

I've also considered adding whole grains and more broccoli into my diet, just not sure how/with what or if it'd help. I've also been adding weight lifting into my nightly routine as well.
I want to be sure I get the most of this since I'm on such a firm budget. Thanks!

Here is what I suggest on a budget for foods and herbs:

• 2/3 cup brown rice, measured dry (about 1-1/3 cup cooked)
  
• 2,000 iu vitamin D via drops
  
• 3/4 tsp liquid fish oil.  It’s expensive but there’s not a cheaper way for the fatty acids as far as I know.
  
• 1-2 tbsp. ground flax seed (drop oil capsules).  The 2nd tbsp. might not make much difference.
  
• Half dozen eggs per week, including yolks.
  
• 1/4 cup almonds throughout the day
  
• 1/4 cup pumpkin seeds
  
• I assume you don’t like sunflower seeds?  That’s fine.  The brown rice, flax and fenugreek should be enough of a substitute.  Likewise 1/4 lb. of the greens I list can replace 1/4 cup of other nuts.  And they are a little better.  Including broccoli.  1/2 lb of most others except lettuce is worse.  About 1/2 cup whole grains or most other seeds can also replace 1/4 cup nuts, measured when dry.  Including additional brown rice.  Canned doesn’t count as any.
  
• A pinch of kelp now and then on food.  A shaker can be convenient.  You need hardly any and consistency isn’t necessary.
  
• 1-3 tbsp. whole fenugreek seeds.  Soak in water for 4+ hours, drain, rinse, snack. (Drop tablets).  Start with 1 tbsp, wait at least 3 days before increasing by 1 tbsp.
  
• 1/8 tsp Ainterol pueraria mirifica powder (or another brand forum users found to be good.  No need to cycle this small amount.
  
• 1/2 tsp or 2 pumps progesterone cream.  No need to cycle this small amount.
  
• Drop BO, I assume the PM and PC is cheaper or am I wrong?  If you get cramps again then maybe add 1-2 BO back in and/or see if messing around with PM and PC amounts helps the cramps.  Or if PM or PC causes you any trouble reduce or drop the troublesome one.  That means it’s probably imbalancing your hormones and isn’t good for nbe either.  Likewise you may want to transition over gradually from BO to PM and PC and make sure everything is ok.
  
• Drop MSM to save money, the foods should cover it.  Or 1,000 mg to use up what you have left.
  
• The soy milk doesn’t do much so it may be cheaper to skip it, but it doesn’t hurt.
  

[BlushyGhxst]

Here is what I suggest on a budget for foods and herbs:

• 2/3 cup brown rice, measured dry (about 1-1/3 cup cooked)
  
• 2,000 iu vitamin D via drops
  
• 3/4 tsp liquid fish oil.  It’s expensive but there’s not a cheaper way for the fatty acids as far as I know.
  
• 1-2 tbsp. ground flax seed (drop oil capsules).  The 2nd tbsp. might not make much difference.
  
• Half dozen eggs per week, including yolks.
  
• 1/4 cup almonds throughout the day
  
• 1/4 cup pumpkin seeds
  
• I assume you don’t like sunflower seeds?  That’s fine.  The brown rice, flax and fenugreek should be enough of a substitute.  Likewise 1/4 lb. of the greens I list can replace 1/4 cup of other nuts.  And they are a little better.  Including broccoli.  1/2 lb of most others except lettuce is worse.  About 1/2 cup whole grains or most other seeds can also replace 1/4 cup nuts, measured when dry.  Including additional brown rice.  Canned doesn’t count as any.
  
• A pinch of kelp now and then on food.  A shaker can be convenient.  You need hardly any and consistency isn’t necessary.
  
• 1-3 tbsp. whole fenugreek seeds.  Soak in water for 4+ hours, drain, rinse, snack. (Drop tablets).  Start with 1 tbsp, wait at least 3 days before increasing by 1 tbsp.
  
• 1/8 tsp Ainterol pueraria mirifica powder (or another brand forum users found to be good.  No need to cycle this small amount.
  
• 1/2 tsp or 2 pumps progesterone cream.  No need to cycle this small amount.
  
• Drop BO, I assume the PM and PC is cheaper or am I wrong?  If you get cramps again then maybe add 1-2 BO back in and/or see if messing around with PM and PC amounts helps the cramps.  Or if PM or PC causes you any trouble reduce or drop the troublesome one.  That means it’s probably imbalancing your hormones and isn’t good for nbe either.  Likewise you may want to transition over gradually from BO to PM and PC and make sure everything is ok.
  
• Drop MSM to save money, the foods should cover it.  Or 1,000 mg to use up what you have left.
  
• The soy milk doesn’t do much so it may be cheaper to skip it, but it doesn’t hurt.
  

Thank you so so much! I actually love sunflower seeds, all of the seeds/nuts I should eat are ones I used to eat a lot as a kid haha I love them so much so that'll be easy to add into my diet! I also used to eat a lot of kelp in college, ironically when I was JUST taking fenugreek and I went up two inches back then. I get those snack packs and tend to eat one a day.

I use Swanson BO and it's not to expensive, but I am curious to see how PM and PC work for me when changing my diet. I'll see what I can do with PM and see what brands I can get a hold of that aren't too expensive but do work. Another question I had is if I should take breaks with this routine. I was told via Reddit that any NBE routine should be stopped after three months for a break but I don't know how long to do so OR if that's really needed with food and small amounts of herbal supplements like PM and PC

Thank you again!

[surferjoe2007]

Here is what I suggest on a budget for foods and herbs:

• 2/3 cup brown rice, measured dry (about 1-1/3 cup cooked)
  
• 2,000 iu vitamin D via drops
  
• 3/4 tsp liquid fish oil.  It’s expensive but there’s not a cheaper way for the fatty acids as far as I know.
  
• 1-2 tbsp. ground flax seed (drop oil capsules).  The 2nd tbsp. might not make much difference.
  
• Half dozen eggs per week, including yolks.
  
• 1/4 cup almonds throughout the day
  
• 1/4 cup pumpkin seeds
  
• I assume you don’t like sunflower seeds?  That’s fine.  The brown rice, flax and fenugreek should be enough of a substitute.  Likewise 1/4 lb. of the greens I list can replace 1/4 cup of other nuts.  And they are a little better.  Including broccoli.  1/2 lb of most others except lettuce is worse.  About 1/2 cup whole grains or most other seeds can also replace 1/4 cup nuts, measured when dry.  Including additional brown rice.  Canned doesn’t count as any.
  
• A pinch of kelp now and then on food.  A shaker can be convenient.  You need hardly any and consistency isn’t necessary.
  
• 1-3 tbsp. whole fenugreek seeds.  Soak in water for 4+ hours, drain, rinse, snack. (Drop tablets).  Start with 1 tbsp, wait at least 3 days before increasing by 1 tbsp.
  
• 1/8 tsp Ainterol pueraria mirifica powder (or another brand forum users found to be good.  No need to cycle this small amount.
  
• 1/2 tsp or 2 pumps progesterone cream.  No need to cycle this small amount.
  
• Drop BO, I assume the PM and PC is cheaper or am I wrong?  If you get cramps again then maybe add 1-2 BO back in and/or see if messing around with PM and PC amounts helps the cramps.  Or if PM or PC causes you any trouble reduce or drop the troublesome one.  That means it’s probably imbalancing your hormones and isn’t good for nbe either.  Likewise you may want to transition over gradually from BO to PM and PC and make sure everything is ok.
  
• Drop MSM to save money, the foods should cover it.  Or 1,000 mg to use up what you have left.
  
• The soy milk doesn’t do much so it may be cheaper to skip it, but it doesn’t hurt.
  

Thank you so so much! I actually love sunflower seeds, all of the seeds/nuts I should eat are ones I used to eat a lot as a kid haha I love them so much so that'll be easy to add into my diet! I also used to eat a lot of kelp in college, ironically when I was JUST taking fenugreek and I went up two inches back then. I get those snack packs and tend to eat one a day.

I use Swanson BO and it's not to expensive, but I am curious to see how PM and PC work for me when changing my diet. I'll see what I can do with PM and see what brands I can get a hold of that aren't too expensive but do work. Another question I had is if I should take breaks with this routine. I was told via Reddit that any NBE routine should be stopped after three months for a break but I don't know how long to do so OR if that's really needed with food and small amounts of herbal supplements like PM and PC

Thank you again!

I don’t think breaks are needed but they don’t hurt.  Many do fine without them and I haven’t seen it in any study.  Yeah maybe the concept comes from taking certain much stronger hormonal drugs like steroids, dunno.

[cherrylilac]

Thanks for all the really helpful info! I’ve been doing a lot of research, and am hoping you could recommend any modifications to the basic Option 1 program based on my information. 

Stats:

• Cis female
  
• Age 26
  
• 5’6”, 130lb
  
• 31” underbust, 35” bust - this measurement is deceptive, though, I have a wide and V shaped rib cage, so a good part of the measurement difference is ribcage, not breast tissue. I wear a 34B bra but don’t fill it out. 
  
• 26” waist, 37” hips. 
  
• Have a hormonal IUD (Kyleena) for birth control. I still ovulate (I can tell, my libido changes and I get alternating side pain on the day my period tracker says I should be ovulating). 
  

What I dislike about my current boobs / my goals: They’re spaced far apart and they look “deflated” on top, as well as kind of pointy / triangular rather than round. They point more out/sideways than forward. I used to weigh ~150-155lb, and my breasts were still small for my frame then and I didn’t like them, but they were more “full”/not deflated feeling - I think the weight loss might have contributed. Ideally I would love to fill out a C cup and have rounder breasts / able to create cleavage, but to be honest I’d accept just filling out my 34B bra and having them be a prettier/fuller shape. 

Things about my body/hormones: 

• I gain muscle pretty easily - I have a pretty nice butt naturally and can get it to noticeable / “I get compliments on it” levels by lifting weights. I would not like to lose that - if getting breasts requires losing that, I’ll stick with the breasts I have. 
  
• I get noticeable breast swelling in the week before my period / they get fuller on the top (not to the level of filling out my bra, but enough that me / my partner can feel it) - based on this hormone cycle chart (https://images.ctfassets.net/juauvlea4rbf/5kxMmXyA8Mw8amOc2sEs62/d08a150839ba152df919343aa0879f1f/EN_Inside_art_4.png?w=2400&h=1390&q=50&fm=png), it makes me think that maybe progesterone would help?
  
• My cycle is 32 days long, my period is typically light but long (lasts ~6-7 days). 
  
• I've historically had issues with acne - had terrible acne from age ~13-20, went on Accutane which mostly solved it - now I get the occasional pimple near my period, but not much other than that. Skin is still not great though, and I'm pretty scared of accidentally bringing it back.
  

The last time I had a hormone panel done would have been on day 14 of that cycle, and these are the levels (I don’t have progesterone, this was a hormone panel for unrelated medical reasons so it’s just the things the doctor ordered) 

• Prolactin: 18.5ng/mL (normal: 3.3 - 26.7) - normal 
  
• Estradiol: 60pg/mL (normal 21-251 follicular, 38-649 midcycle, 21-312 luteal) - low end 
  
• FSH: 5.31 mlU/mL (normal 3.03-8.08 mid follicular, 2.55 - 16.69 mid cycle peak, 1.38 - 5.47 mid luteal, 26.7-133.4 post-menopause) - normal
  
• TSH: 1.605 ulUML (normal 0.35 - 4.94 ulU/mL) - normal
  
• IGF-1: 340 ng/ML (normal 101-347 ng/ML) - high end 
  
• HCT: 37.8% (normal 3.60-45.0%) - low end
  

I’ve been doing massage with flaxseed oil and Volufiline, and I’m noticing some swelling/feeling heavier, but hard to tell yet if that’s just my regular cycle (I’m due for my period in a week) or an actual change.

I got the herbs that you recommended for “basic”/option 1 here  - shatavari, saw palmetto, vitex, flax (https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=23076&pid=201399#pid201399) plus MSM, but haven’t started them yet - I’m a little afraid of weight gain and also of messing up my cycle, since it only finally got regular on the IUD. I’m interested in whether there’s any modifications you’d recommend based on my hormone panel / other info. 

[Grayson123]

That sounds like a solid plan CherryLilac, I’m doing much the same except with FG instead of shatavari. I’m relying on massage a lot as well.