[surferjoe2007]

Thanks for all the really helpful info! I’ve been doing a lot of research, and am hoping you could recommend any modifications to the basic Option 1 program based on my information. 

Stats:

• Cis female
  
• Age 26
  
• 5’6”, 130lb
  
• 31” underbust, 35” bust - this measurement is deceptive, though, I have a wide and V shaped rib cage, so a good part of the measurement difference is ribcage, not breast tissue. I wear a 34B bra but don’t fill it out. 
  
• 26” waist, 37” hips. 
  
• Have a hormonal IUD (Kyleena) for birth control. I still ovulate (I can tell, my libido changes and I get alternating side pain on the day my period tracker says I should be ovulating). 
  

What I dislike about my current boobs / my goals: They’re spaced far apart and they look “deflated” on top, as well as kind of pointy / triangular rather than round. They point more out/sideways than forward. I used to weigh ~150-155lb, and my breasts were still small for my frame then and I didn’t like them, but they were more “full”/not deflated feeling - I think the weight loss might have contributed. Ideally I would love to fill out a C cup and have rounder breasts / able to create cleavage, but to be honest I’d accept just filling out my 34B bra and having them be a prettier/fuller shape. 

Things about my body/hormones: 

• I gain muscle pretty easily - I have a pretty nice butt naturally and can get it to noticeable / “I get compliments on it” levels by lifting weights. I would not like to lose that - if getting breasts requires losing that, I’ll stick with the breasts I have. 
  
• I get noticeable breast swelling in the week before my period / they get fuller on the top (not to the level of filling out my bra, but enough that me / my partner can feel it) - based on this hormone cycle chart (https://images.ctfassets.net/juauvlea4rbf/5kxMmXyA8Mw8amOc2sEs62/d08a150839ba152df919343aa0879f1f/EN_Inside_art_4.png?w=2400&h=1390&q=50&fm=png), it makes me think that maybe progesterone would help?
  
• My cycle is 32 days long, my period is typically light but long (lasts ~6-7 days). 
  
• I've historically had issues with acne - had terrible acne from age ~13-20, went on Accutane which mostly solved it - now I get the occasional pimple near my period, but not much other than that. Skin is still not great though, and I'm pretty scared of accidentally bringing it back.
  

The last time I had a hormone panel done would have been on day 14 of that cycle, and these are the levels (I don’t have progesterone, this was a hormone panel for unrelated medical reasons so it’s just the things the doctor ordered) 

• Prolactin: 18.5ng/mL (normal: 3.3 - 26.7) - normal 
  
• Estradiol: 60pg/mL (normal 21-251 follicular, 38-649 midcycle, 21-312 luteal) - low end 
  
• FSH: 5.31 mlU/mL (normal 3.03-8.08 mid follicular, 2.55 - 16.69 mid cycle peak, 1.38 - 5.47 mid luteal, 26.7-133.4 post-menopause) - normal
  
• TSH: 1.605 ulUML (normal 0.35 - 4.94 ulU/mL) - normal
  
• IGF-1: 340 ng/ML (normal 101-347 ng/ML) - high end 
  
• HCT: 37.8% (normal 3.60-45.0%) - low end
  

I’ve been doing massage with flaxseed oil and Volufiline, and I’m noticing some swelling/feeling heavier, but hard to tell yet if that’s just my regular cycle (I’m due for my period in a week) or an actual change.

I got the herbs that you recommended for “basic”/option 1 here  - shatavari, saw palmetto, vitex, flax (https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=23076&pid=201399#pid201399) plus MSM, but haven’t started them yet - I’m a little afraid of weight gain and also of messing up my cycle, since it only finally got regular on the IUD. I’m interested in whether there’s any modifications you’d recommend based on my hormone panel / other info. 

Your BC is progestin which is strong synthetic progesterone.  Drop the vitex and definitely don’t use progesterone cream.  Even if your E was high before, the P from the BC is very strong and almost always dominates.  So that makes things tricky.  You can try option 1 and massage for a few months but if you can’t grow due to an imbalance caused by the BC you may want to add in some PM to balance it out.  Ainterol or Purafem are a couple examples of good brands.  Cycling the PM can help prevent disrupting your cycle.  But likewise strong E on top of strong P and balanced out might give way too much growth.  So you may have to adjust down or up so it’s not too much of an imbalance nor too much growth.  If anything nbe herbs might grow your butt too.  Muscle shouldn’t be affected much.  Nbe herbs and BC often cause a little weight gain but it tends to level off and you can lose it like any weight.  And sometimes if you balance out your hormones you can get weight loss instead.

[Grayson123]

Should small amounts of vitex be used with regular, combined bc that contains ethinylestradiol

[cherrylilac]

Thanks for all the really helpful info! I’ve been doing a lot of research, and am hoping you could recommend any modifications to the basic Option 1 program based on my information. 

Stats:

• Cis female
  
• Age 26
  
• 5’6”, 130lb
  
• 31” underbust, 35” bust - this measurement is deceptive, though, I have a wide and V shaped rib cage, so a good part of the measurement difference is ribcage, not breast tissue. I wear a 34B bra but don’t fill it out. 
  
• 26” waist, 37” hips. 
  
• Have a hormonal IUD (Kyleena) for birth control. I still ovulate (I can tell, my libido changes and I get alternating side pain on the day my period tracker says I should be ovulating). 
  

What I dislike about my current boobs / my goals: They’re spaced far apart and they look “deflated” on top, as well as kind of pointy / triangular rather than round. They point more out/sideways than forward. I used to weigh ~150-155lb, and my breasts were still small for my frame then and I didn’t like them, but they were more “full”/not deflated feeling - I think the weight loss might have contributed. Ideally I would love to fill out a C cup and have rounder breasts / able to create cleavage, but to be honest I’d accept just filling out my 34B bra and having them be a prettier/fuller shape. 

Things about my body/hormones: 

• I gain muscle pretty easily - I have a pretty nice butt naturally and can get it to noticeable / “I get compliments on it” levels by lifting weights. I would not like to lose that - if getting breasts requires losing that, I’ll stick with the breasts I have. 
  
• I get noticeable breast swelling in the week before my period / they get fuller on the top (not to the level of filling out my bra, but enough that me / my partner can feel it) - based on this hormone cycle chart (https://images.ctfassets.net/juauvlea4rbf/5kxMmXyA8Mw8amOc2sEs62/d08a150839ba152df919343aa0879f1f/EN_Inside_art_4.png?w=2400&h=1390&q=50&fm=png), it makes me think that maybe progesterone would help?
  
• My cycle is 32 days long, my period is typically light but long (lasts ~6-7 days). 
  
• I've historically had issues with acne - had terrible acne from age ~13-20, went on Accutane which mostly solved it - now I get the occasional pimple near my period, but not much other than that. Skin is still not great though, and I'm pretty scared of accidentally bringing it back.
  

The last time I had a hormone panel done would have been on day 14 of that cycle, and these are the levels (I don’t have progesterone, this was a hormone panel for unrelated medical reasons so it’s just the things the doctor ordered) 

• Prolactin: 18.5ng/mL (normal: 3.3 - 26.7) - normal 
  
• Estradiol: 60pg/mL (normal 21-251 follicular, 38-649 midcycle, 21-312 luteal) - low end 
  
• FSH: 5.31 mlU/mL (normal 3.03-8.08 mid follicular, 2.55 - 16.69 mid cycle peak, 1.38 - 5.47 mid luteal, 26.7-133.4 post-menopause) - normal
  
• TSH: 1.605 ulUML (normal 0.35 - 4.94 ulU/mL) - normal
  
• IGF-1: 340 ng/ML (normal 101-347 ng/ML) - high end 
  
• HCT: 37.8% (normal 3.60-45.0%) - low end
  

I’ve been doing massage with flaxseed oil and Volufiline, and I’m noticing some swelling/feeling heavier, but hard to tell yet if that’s just my regular cycle (I’m due for my period in a week) or an actual change.

I got the herbs that you recommended for “basic”/option 1 here  - shatavari, saw palmetto, vitex, flax (https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=23076&pid=201399#pid201399) plus MSM, but haven’t started them yet - I’m a little afraid of weight gain and also of messing up my cycle, since it only finally got regular on the IUD. I’m interested in whether there’s any modifications you’d recommend based on my hormone panel / other info. 

Your BC is progestin which is strong synthetic progesterone.  Drop the vitex and definitely don’t use progesterone cream.  Even if your E was high before, the P from the BC is very strong and almost always dominates.  So that makes things tricky.  You can try option 1 and massage for a few months but if you can’t grow due to an imbalance caused by the BC you may want to add in some PM to balance it out.  Ainterol or Purafem are a couple examples of good brands.  Cycling the PM can help prevent disrupting your cycle.  But likewise strong E on top of strong P and balanced out might give way too much growth.  So you may have to adjust down or up so it’s not too much of an imbalance nor too much growth.  If anything nbe herbs might grow your butt too.  Muscle shouldn’t be affected much.  Nbe herbs and BC often cause a little weight gain but it tends to level off and you can lose it like any weight.  And sometimes if you balance out your hormones you can get weight loss instead.

Thank you! Will drop vitex and not consider progesterone cream, and I might consider PM depending on how far I get with massage and Option 1. I appreciate it! 

Also realized I forgot the other hormone test I had that included testosterone - this was taken while I was on combination/pill BC (Yasmin), so wasn't ovulating. 

• Prolactin: 10.2 ng/ML (normal 1.4-24.2)
  
• Estradiol: 117.5pg/ML
  
• FSH: 4.7 
  
• IGF-1: 297 (normal 101-347)
  
• Testosterone: 61.7 ng/dL (normal 14 - 76) - high end
  

[surferjoe2007]

Thanks for all the really helpful info! I’ve been doing a lot of research, and am hoping you could recommend any modifications to the basic Option 1 program based on my information. 

Stats:

• Cis female
  
• Age 26
  
• 5’6”, 130lb
  
• 31” underbust, 35” bust - this measurement is deceptive, though, I have a wide and V shaped rib cage, so a good part of the measurement difference is ribcage, not breast tissue. I wear a 34B bra but don’t fill it out. 
  
• 26” waist, 37” hips. 
  
• Have a hormonal IUD (Kyleena) for birth control. I still ovulate (I can tell, my libido changes and I get alternating side pain on the day my period tracker says I should be ovulating). 
  

What I dislike about my current boobs / my goals: They’re spaced far apart and they look “deflated” on top, as well as kind of pointy / triangular rather than round. They point more out/sideways than forward. I used to weigh ~150-155lb, and my breasts were still small for my frame then and I didn’t like them, but they were more “full”/not deflated feeling - I think the weight loss might have contributed. Ideally I would love to fill out a C cup and have rounder breasts / able to create cleavage, but to be honest I’d accept just filling out my 34B bra and having them be a prettier/fuller shape. 

Things about my body/hormones: 

• I gain muscle pretty easily - I have a pretty nice butt naturally and can get it to noticeable / “I get compliments on it” levels by lifting weights. I would not like to lose that - if getting breasts requires losing that, I’ll stick with the breasts I have. 
  
• I get noticeable breast swelling in the week before my period / they get fuller on the top (not to the level of filling out my bra, but enough that me / my partner can feel it) - based on this hormone cycle chart (https://images.ctfassets.net/juauvlea4rbf/5kxMmXyA8Mw8amOc2sEs62/d08a150839ba152df919343aa0879f1f/EN_Inside_art_4.png?w=2400&h=1390&q=50&fm=png), it makes me think that maybe progesterone would help?
  
• My cycle is 32 days long, my period is typically light but long (lasts ~6-7 days). 
  
• I've historically had issues with acne - had terrible acne from age ~13-20, went on Accutane which mostly solved it - now I get the occasional pimple near my period, but not much other than that. Skin is still not great though, and I'm pretty scared of accidentally bringing it back.
  

The last time I had a hormone panel done would have been on day 14 of that cycle, and these are the levels (I don’t have progesterone, this was a hormone panel for unrelated medical reasons so it’s just the things the doctor ordered) 

• Prolactin: 18.5ng/mL (normal: 3.3 - 26.7) - normal 
  
• Estradiol: 60pg/mL (normal 21-251 follicular, 38-649 midcycle, 21-312 luteal) - low end 
  
• FSH: 5.31 mlU/mL (normal 3.03-8.08 mid follicular, 2.55 - 16.69 mid cycle peak, 1.38 - 5.47 mid luteal, 26.7-133.4 post-menopause) - normal
  
• TSH: 1.605 ulUML (normal 0.35 - 4.94 ulU/mL) - normal
  
• IGF-1: 340 ng/ML (normal 101-347 ng/ML) - high end 
  
• HCT: 37.8% (normal 3.60-45.0%) - low end
  

I’ve been doing massage with flaxseed oil and Volufiline, and I’m noticing some swelling/feeling heavier, but hard to tell yet if that’s just my regular cycle (I’m due for my period in a week) or an actual change.

I got the herbs that you recommended for “basic”/option 1 here  - shatavari, saw palmetto, vitex, flax (https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=23076&pid=201399#pid201399) plus MSM, but haven’t started them yet - I’m a little afraid of weight gain and also of messing up my cycle, since it only finally got regular on the IUD. I’m interested in whether there’s any modifications you’d recommend based on my hormone panel / other info. 

Your BC is progestin which is strong synthetic progesterone.  Drop the vitex and definitely don’t use progesterone cream.  Even if your E was high before, the P from the BC is very strong and almost always dominates.  So that makes things tricky.  You can try option 1 and massage for a few months but if you can’t grow due to an imbalance caused by the BC you may want to add in some PM to balance it out.  Ainterol or Purafem are a couple examples of good brands.  Cycling the PM can help prevent disrupting your cycle.  But likewise strong E on top of strong P and balanced out might give way too much growth.  So you may have to adjust down or up so it’s not too much of an imbalance nor too much growth.  If anything nbe herbs might grow your butt too.  Muscle shouldn’t be affected much.  Nbe herbs and BC often cause a little weight gain but it tends to level off and you can lose it like any weight.  And sometimes if you balance out your hormones you can get weight loss instead.

Thank you! Will drop vitex and not consider progesterone cream, and I might consider PM depending on how far I get with massage and Option 1. I appreciate it! 

Also realized I forgot the other hormone test I had that included testosterone - this was taken while I was on combination/pill BC (Yasmin), so wasn't ovulating. 

• Prolactin: 10.2 ng/ML (normal 1.4-24.2)
  
• Estradiol: 117.5pg/ML
  
• FSH: 4.7 
  
• IGF-1: 297 (normal 101-347)
  
• Testosterone: 61.7 ng/dL (normal 14 - 76) - high end
  

I figured T might be high.  That’s raising DHT but also helping your muscle and butt.  And you’re not trying to grow very much so some T in the way shouldn’t be too bad.  So I’d leave it alone apart from addressing the DHT a little with saw palmetto extract.  If you really need to lower it you can use up to 10g dry spearmint in tea but this risks hurting your workouts.

[surferjoe2007]

Should small amounts of vitex be used with regular, combined bc that contains ethinylestradiol

Combined BC tends to be strong estrogen and weak progestin.  I’d not use PM and consider progesterone cream unless a hormone test says your progesterone is naturally high and estrogen naturally low.  Vitex can help a little but probably isn’t enough progesterone.  Up to 150-250 mg PC maybe, or whatever gives the most growth without side effects.  Less PC earlier on to confirm everything is ok.

[Grayson123]

Thanks. I am a fenugreek user, not a PM user. Guess the Vitex is safe for me to take then.

[Grayson123]

I took 400 mg vitex last night and woke up with fewer tingles than usual, so I’m dropping it from my diet. Seems like bad news. 

There is significantly more progestin than estrogen in the combined pill- the estrogen dose is given in micrograms, not milligrams, and the estrogen is mostly there to protect the bone and keep periods stable.

[surferjoe2007]

I took 400 mg vitex last night and woke up with fewer tingles than usual, so I’m dropping it from my diet. Seems like bad news. 

There is significantly more progestin than estrogen in the combined pill- the estrogen dose is given in micrograms, not milligrams, and the estrogen is mostly there to protect the bone and keep periods stable.

Vitex has a tiny progesterone effect and could take months to notice anything.  It’s probably a coincidence.

High for estrogen and high for progestin is not the same mcg/mg.  It can be different for two different types of progestin too.  Which BC are you on?

That said the progestin vs estrogen in combo BC can be confusing.  After reading about several I’m still trying to figure out which one is stronger in the breasts and also whether it varies from pill to pill.

[Grayson123]

The one that’s best for the breast is probably something with the super antiandrogens like drospirenone or cyproterone, I just take 0.1 mg levonorgestrel and .02 mg ethinylestradiol because it costs less.

[surferjoe2007]

The one that’s best for the breast is probably something with the super antiandrogens like drospirenone or cyproterone, I just take 0.1 mg levonorgestrel and .02 mg ethinylestradiol because it costs less.

I suspect that one is stronger on the progesterone side but I’m still trying to figure it out.  You might try a little PM on pill days and see how it goes.

For some reason the anti androgen ones caused less breast cell growth in studies but I’m not sure why.  Maybe less effect on the breasts or maybe they decreased natural hormones more.  Levonorgestrel is actually in a lot of anecdotal stories of growth.  Whether from combination BC alone with no herbs, or all progestin BC (no estradiol) such as mirena plus PM for the estrogen.