[Lotus]

The Pueraria Mirifica study below shows an increase of 15% Triglyceride (Triglycerides are the main constituents of body fat in human levels) using doses of 20, 30, and 50 mg/d for a 24-week period. 

Imagine using Pueraria Mirifica- PM @ doses of 500mg or above and the amount of weight you'll gain? my estimate puts additional daily weight gain anywhere between 1/4 to 3/4 pounds of fat per day if you're not active, or sedentary.

Original PM research states cis-females not to exceed between 100-250mg of Pueraria Mirifica. 250mg for first time users is exceedingly high, start with 100mg and go from there.


Effects and safety of Pueraria mirifica on lipid profiles and biochemical markers of bone turnover rates in healthy postmenopausal women

Jittima Manonai et al. Menopause. 2008 May-Jun.

Abstract

Objective: To evaluate the effect of Pueraria mirifica on lipid profiles and biochemical markers of bone turnover rates in healthy postmenopausal women and to evaluate the safety of Pueraria mirifica on endometrium; breast tissue; and hematologic, hepatic, and renal systems.

Design: This was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study in a university hospital of healthy postmenopausal women aged 45 to 60 years old. Women were enrolled voluntarily and randomly received 20, 30, or 50 mg Pueraria mirifica in capsules or identical placebo once daily for 24 weeks. Outcome measures were lipid profiles, bone-specific alkaline phosphatase level, endometrial thickness, endometrial histology, breast ultrasonography, complete blood count, liver function test, and renal function test.

Results: After 24 weeks of treatment, 71 women were evaluated. Of the 71 women, 51 randomly received varying doses of Pueraria mirifica and 20 received placebo. Pueraria mirifica and placebo significantly increased triglyceride levels by 15% from baseline levels (P<0.05). The Pueraria mirifica group showed a significant decrease in bone-specific alkaline phosphatase levels after 24 weeks of treatment compared with the placebo group; from 0.22+/-0.18 U/L to 0.13+/-0.01 U/L in the Pueraria mirifica group and from 0.20+/-0.10 U/L to 0.20+/-0.14 U/L in the placebo group. Endometrial thickness did not change after treatment in both groups (P>0.05). No endometrial proliferation or hyperplasia was reported after 24 weeks of treatment in both groups. There were no significant differences in adverse effects on breast tissue, complete blood count, and liver and renal function tests between the Pueraria mirifica and placebo groups in this study.

Conclusion: Pueraria mirifica at a dose of 20, 30, and 50 mg/d for a 24-week period demonstrated an estrogen-like effect on bone turnover rate. Pueraria mirifica did not demonstrate an estrogen-like effect on endometrial thickness and endometrial histology. Mild adverse effects occurred after Pueraria mirifica and placebo treatment.

[Bustyprincess]

The Pueraria Mirifica study below shows an increase of 15% Triglyceride (Triglycerides are the main constituents of body fat in human levels) using doses of 20, 30, and 50 mg/d for a 24-week period. 

Imagine using Pueraria Mirifica- PM @ doses of 500mg or above and the amount of weight you'll gain? my estimate puts additional daily weight gain anywhere between 1/4 to 3/4 pounds of fat per day if you're not active, or sedentary.

Original PM research states cis-females not to exceed between 100-250mg of Pueraria Mirifica. 250mg for first time users is exceedingly high, start with 100mg and go from there.


Effects and safety of Pueraria mirifica on lipid profiles and biochemical markers of bone turnover rates in healthy postmenopausal women

Jittima Manonai et al. Menopause. 2008 May-Jun.

Abstract

Objective: To evaluate the effect of Pueraria mirifica on lipid profiles and biochemical markers of bone turnover rates in healthy postmenopausal women and to evaluate the safety of Pueraria mirifica on endometrium; breast tissue; and hematologic, hepatic, and renal systems.

Design: This was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study in a university hospital of healthy postmenopausal women aged 45 to 60 years old. Women were enrolled voluntarily and randomly received 20, 30, or 50 mg Pueraria mirifica in capsules or identical placebo once daily for 24 weeks. Outcome measures were lipid profiles, bone-specific alkaline phosphatase level, endometrial thickness, endometrial histology, breast ultrasonography, complete blood count, liver function test, and renal function test.

Results: After 24 weeks of treatment, 71 women were evaluated. Of the 71 women, 51 randomly received varying doses of Pueraria mirifica and 20 received placebo. Pueraria mirifica and placebo significantly increased triglyceride levels by 15% from baseline levels (P<0.05). The Pueraria mirifica group showed a significant decrease in bone-specific alkaline phosphatase levels after 24 weeks of treatment compared with the placebo group; from 0.22+/-0.18 U/L to 0.13+/-0.01 U/L in the Pueraria mirifica group and from 0.20+/-0.10 U/L to 0.20+/-0.14 U/L in the placebo group. Endometrial thickness did not change after treatment in both groups (P>0.05). No endometrial proliferation or hyperplasia was reported after 24 weeks of treatment in both groups. There were no significant differences in adverse effects on breast tissue, complete blood count, and liver and renal function tests between the Pueraria mirifica and placebo groups in this study.

Conclusion: Pueraria mirifica at a dose of 20, 30, and 50 mg/d for a 24-week period demonstrated an estrogen-like effect on bone turnover rate. Pueraria mirifica did not demonstrate an estrogen-like effect on endometrial thickness and endometrial histology. Mild adverse effects occurred after Pueraria mirifica and placebo treatment.

Thats crazy and others claim other herbs and BO makes you gain weight and yet I have not had this effect at all, if I remember when I used to take PM I had gained alot of weight though I was also trying to back then but can now know that PM would have been helping to gain weight so not only did it send me crazy with moods and anxiety but it made me gain weight too definitely not something I will be trying again!

[SweetO]

So interesting. Pueraria only targets E right? 



This got me thinking. I remember reading two cis females users here who were taking 1000mg of PM and gain 3-4 cup sizes. One of them did not gain a lot of weight but the other girl did , if I do recall well, 5kg in six months or so. 

Does it mean cis females who had success with PM at high doses grew due to E has somehow interfered with their metabolism and thus they have been able to gain more body fat (and therefore more breast)? In layman's terms: Estrogen in high doses makes you fat?!


PS: Lotus, when I read what you posted on herbal supplements thread, you mentioned Fenugreek being prolactin source. So it is not Estrogen, right?
I hope it won't mess with prolactin since it's in the limit apparently xD

[SweetO]

Princess <3 

Did PM give you panic attacks? I read on Reddit there are mixed feelings about it because more than 1000mg seems to do so.

[Bustyprincess]

Thats crazy and others claim other herbs and BO makes you gain weight and yet I have not had this effect at all, if I remember when I used to take PM I had gained alot of weight though I was also trying to back then but can now know that PM would have been helping to gain weight so not only did it send me crazy with moods and anxiety but it made me gain weight too definitely not something I will be trying again!

Princess <3 

Did PM give you panic attacks? I read on Reddit there are mixed feelings about it because more than 1000mg seems to do so.

ABSOLUTELY! It made me become a total mess and I was only taking 500mg a day back then with BO, I was so anxious more than my usual regular anxiety and very highly strung/emotional/moody my ex and mum made me swear I would never try it again and I havnt as I dont want to go through that again, it did help with growth though.

[armuline]

So typically with PCOS you don't get LH (Luteinizing Hormone) surges, and ovulation doesn't take place because LH levels are at upper levels, and menses become irregular. So after your period ends is when you start reishi, and stop when you begin luteal phase.

Hi Lotus,

I was reading through this thread and curious about this point. I take reishi extract at the moment but I take it everyday through all phases. What are the drawbacks of doing so? I had always assumed that antiandrogens don't need to by cycled. Is this specific to PCOS? I was unaware of any effects reishi may have on LH/FSH levels.

Thank you!

[Lotus]

Hi armulin,

With pcos you're already starting at high levels because of risk factors like obesity or insulin resistance, or increased levels of LH to low levels of FSH causing an imbalance. It's not a prerequisite to what you're currently doing, more of a suggestion if your PCOS has the above mentioned risk factors.

Anti-androgens can be taken everyday for different reasons, e.g. Spiro for menstrual irregularities, or PCOS. Or cypro for hirsutism, etc. 

Are you working on developing on plan?

[armuline]

Hi armulin,

With pcos you're already starting at high levels because of risk factors like obesity or insulin resistance, or increased levels of LH to low levels of FSH causing an imbalance. It's not a prerequisite to what you're currently doing, more of a suggestion if your PCOS has the above mentioned risk factors.

Androgens can be taken everyday for different reasons, e.g. Spiro for menstrual irregularities, or PCOS. Or cypro for hirsutism, etc. 

Are you working on developing on plan?

Thanks for your response!

Yep I'm working on a plan. I was tested a couple of years ago (can't get tested at the moment) and the below were my notable results, I don't have the exact figures to hand:

Luteal phase

- High LH to FSH ratio (7:1)

- High total and free testosterone (both above reference range)

- Low progesterone

- I didn't get tested for estrogen at the time

Based on the above I've decided on the following as my plan:

- Reishi tincture as my AA throughout cycle (I have hirsutism so probably have high DHT)

- Progesterone cream during luteal

- PM during follicular

(I would have to guess the above since my cycle is v. irregular)

- I also already take D3, K2, MSM & magnesium for general health reasons

- I'm very skinny so will try to increase calorie intake too

Would you suggest then due to my LH levels that I pause reishi during the luteal phase? I didn't know there would be drawbacks to take it throughout. Is there anything else about my proposed program that sticks out to be changed?

[Lotus]

Hi again armulin, 

Here's what you can try, 

• Increase vitamin D3 to a minimum of 5,000iu's per day 
  
• Don't eat processed foods, get more protein into your daily diet
  
• Increase your progesterone, if it's a cream 20mg to 40mg. I take oral micronized progesterone daily, prescribed by my hrt doctor…if you can get your doctor to write it for you I'd suggest you try it. 
  
• Reduce stress/cortisol, high cortisol can spike testosterone 
  
• Check on your thyroid, low thyroid can impact hirsutism 
  
• Add B12
  
• Add Green Tea w/EGCG @ 45%...and I will explain the importance of adding GTE tomorrow 
  

With PCOS and Hirsutism the treatment is about the same, we need to focus on SHBG though. And I'll also lay that out tomorrow too, I just ran out of time tonight to cover it. 

[armuline]

Hi again armulin, 

Here's what you can try, 

• Increase vitamin D3 to a minimum of 5,000iu's per day 
  
• Don't eat processed foods, get more protein into your daily diet
  
• Increase your progesterone, if it's a cream 20mg to 40mg. I take oral micronized progesterone daily, prescribed by my hrt doctor…if you can get your doctor to write it for you I'd suggest you try it. 
  
• Reduce stress/cortisol, high cortisol can spike testosterone 
  
• Check on your thyroid, low thyroid can impact hirsutism 
  
• Add B12
  
• Add Green Tea w/EGCG @ 45%...and I will explain the importance of adding GTE tomorrow 
  

With PCOS and Hirsutism the treatment is about the same, we need to focus on SHBG though. And I'll also lay that out tomorrow too, I just ran out of time tonight to cover it. 

Hi Lotus, thanks so much for this! All noted!

SHBG is a topic that I've always been unsure of in regards to breast growth so any insight there would be appreciated along with the GTE info. I was never sure if GTE alone would be enough as the only anti-androgen in a program, or any other NBE effects it may have.