[Lotus]

Hi Lotus, thanks so much for this! All noted!

SHBG is a topic that I've always been unsure of in regards to breast growth so any insight there would be appreciated along with the GTE info. I was never sure if GTE alone would be enough as the only anti-androgen in a program, or any other NBE effects it may have.

Hi armuline, 

Here's a simpler way to look at SHBG, at least in my opinion. Sometimes SHBG has too much androgens in the bloodstream, and they happen to be "free androgens" :

In other words, as quoted in science: 
"Low SHBG levels result in a sustained increase in the circulating free androgen concentration"...which can turn into DHT. 

So the goal for all PCOS sufferers is to "RAISE SHBG Levels"....not lower it. And when you raise SHBG you slowly turn off PCOS. That's my viewpoint. Start finding ingredients and things that increase SHBG. 

What raises SHBG?..One study below indicates vitamin D3 between 1,000iu to 4,000iu per day raises SHBG and has a beneficial effect on lowering androgens.

• Metformin raises SHBG, but it's really hard on digestion
  

• Drinking coffee can raise SHBG
  

Effects of vitamin D supplementation in women with polycystic ovary syndrome: a review

Daniela Menichini et al. Gynecol Endocrinol. 2020 Jan.
Abstract

Increasing evidence supports the contribution of vitamin D deficiency (VDD) in metabolic disturbances among women with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS). This review aims to assess the associations between vitamin D levels and metabolic/endocrine dysregulations and to determine the effects of vitamin D supplementation on glucose metabolism, insulin sensitivity, lipid profile, and hormone functionality in PCOS patients. We searched in PubMed human randomized controlled trials (RCTs) published in English between 2016 and 2019 on the effects of vitamin D supplementation on PCOS. Nine studies were included and analyzed. Vitamin D supplementation restored physiological serum 25(OH)D levels in PCOS women in all the studies included. In six studies, it significantly decreased fasting plasma glucose and brought to improvements in insulin resistance (IR) and serum fasting insulin. In addition, four studies reported decreases of serum triglycerides, while discordant data are reported as far as LDL, HDL, and total cholesterol levels. High-doses of vitamin D (4000 IU), compared with low-dose (1000 IU), and placebo, showed beneficial effects on total testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) and free androgen index (FAI). Vitamin D supplementation at high doses for a period of at least 12 weeks, may lead to improvement in terms of glucose level, insulin sensitivity, hyperlipidemia, and hormonal functionality in PCOS women.

Effect of Long-Term Treatment with Metformin Added to Hypocaloric Diet on Body Composition, Fat Distribution, and Androgen and Insulin Levels in Abdominally Obese Women with and without the Polycystic Ovary Syndrome 
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/85/8/2767/2852497

[Lotus]

Hi again armuline...and Sweets, 

SHBG acts very differently for PCOS cis-females, while the need is to raise SHBG for PCOS its opposite for pre-op transwoman who needs to keep SHBG low in order have estradiol having a higher percentage of free hormones (free estradiol %) this in turn gives a better chance for breast growth and feminization. The same holds true for other cis-males wanting to grow breasts for other reasons (found on/at Breastnexum.com)

Interesting research:

A comprehensive insight into effects of green tea extract in polycystic ovary syndrome: a systematic review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...rt=classic

A systematic review was conducted of published studies reporting the effects of GTE on PCOS. Several major databases, including PubMed, SCOPUS, and Google Scholar, were searched up from inception to April 2021. Clinical trials and animal studies that assessed the effects of GTE on PCOS were eligible for inclusion:

Tehrani et al. found that patients who received GTE (500 mg/day) had significantly decreased free testosterone levels compared with placebo subjects [26]

According to this PCOS study group below Green Tea improved body mass index, weight, waist circumference, and body fat percentage in the green tea group were reduced significantly.

The mean of body mass index, weight, waist circumference, and body fat percentage in the green tea group were reduced significantly.

Mombaini E, Jafarirad S, Husain D, Haghighizadeh MH, Padfar P. The Impact of Green Tea Supplementation on Anthropometric Indices and Inflammatory Cytokines in Women with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome. Phytother Res. 2017 May;31(5):747-754. doi: 10.1002/ptr.5795. Epub 2017 Feb 28. PMID: 28244612.

[SweetO]

Happy New Year my dear Lotus!

So, 500mg of Green Tea would benefit PCOS ? 

I am going to start this month with Green Tea. Today is my #3 day of period  and I forgot Green Tea has to be taken during follicular phase lol. I'll start tomorrow. I finally chose in liquid extract , it has 50% EGCG.

- My forskolin pills did not arrive so I am looking for another brand xD I think using Forskolin as a pre-workout supplement will be a great addition, I read it helps with lean body mass.
- Fenugreek powder on its way   I'll split the dose 300mg and 300mg (mid-day and evening)
- I still don't know if I can get a good source of Hyaluronic acid. Been looking into it for weeks but no success yet!
- Progesterone cream = only during luteal I know. A pea size will be enough, right? 


-I already incorporated MSM at 1500mg in December, so I will reach 3000mg in February. Took HMB+Carnitine all month as well but I'll stick to using both only during luteal phase as you suggested. 

-Taking Vit D as prescribed too, with Magnesium! 

Oh and my sleep has improved quite a lot so I am happy about this ^^

[Lotus]

Happy New Year my dear Lotus!

So, 500mg of Green Tea would benefit PCOS ? 

Hi Sweets, it's gotta have EGCG at least 45% to benefit pcos and breast growth. I use it and and does wonders for my hrt program.

6
I am going to start this month with Green Tea. Today is my #3 day of period  and I forgot Green Tea has to be taken during follicular phase lol. I'll start tomorrow. I finally chose in liquid extract , it has 50% EGCG.

- My forskolin pills did not arrive so I am looking for another brand xD I think using Forskolin as a pre-workout supplement will be a great addition, I read it helps with lean body mass.
- Fenugreek powder on its way   I'll split the dose 300mg and 300mg (mid-day and evening)
- I still don't know if I can get a good source of Hyaluronic acid. Been looking into it for weeks but no success yet!
- Progesterone cream = only during luteal I know. A pea size will be enough, right? 

I'm concerned with adding fenugreek knowing it is lowering SHBG now, which goes in the opposite direction of reducing PCOS (we want to increase SHBG in PCOS). Fenugreek is great for reducing blood sugar, insulin resistance and other good things. Maybe there's a counter trade off by adding more protein to offset the difference?...I don't know, you'd have to experiment if you're comfortable doing so, or just hold off on the Fenugreek till later and be patient (which is advisable). 

Sex hormone-binding globulin and polycystic ovary syndrome
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...via%3Dihub

Progesterone lowers SHBG too, so I'm checking into that...I know (sorry). 

-I already incorporated MSM at 1500mg in December, so I will reach 3000mg in February. Took HMB+Carnitine all month as well but I'll stick to using both only during luteal phase as you suggested. 

-Taking Vit D as prescribed too, with Magnesium! 

Oh and my sleep has improved quite a lot so I am happy about this ^^

Awesome, I'm so happy for you. 

[SweetO]

oh boy! How complex it is the human body! Well, at least I can be the guinea pig for al PCOS girls here!   However, if Fenugreek might not work, could Pueraria be a good alternative? Or what herb could work?? 

About the progesterone, I think it does not hurt anyone at least. Or my experience with it (using just 8 days during luteal phase and just once a day) has been positive. Whenever I use progesterone in breast or wrists, I get tingly sensations in my chest. Like that feeling we experience when we go through puberty, same.

[SweetO]

Hey again 

Lotus, I am interested in getting a healthier adrenal function. I don't know if that is possible or treatable besides having a good diet, sleeping, working out, managing stress, etc. I don't know if that could help me with breast development either, but at least if helps me control my T levels I'd be happy with it.

I cut of sugars except fruit, I am working on a anti-inflammatory diet, improved my sleep, I work out 4-5 a week but I am a disaster with stress management. 
Less disaster than I used to because now I know how to cope with it better and I am not always with anxiety symptoms, but I feel when my body has a stress spike. I bet everybody feels that, but I suspect my body is more sensitive to stress (if that makes sense, cause I don't know yet) so it takes me a while to get back neutral sometimes. Working out made huge difference on me on feeling weak and stressed AF during the week, but sometimes I feel like that overwhelming effect in my body (for instance with deadlines at work!).

I read a lot about adaptogens, turmeric, vitamin B properties...all good for good adrenal health. However right now I am just focusing on improving my diet (it was 70% clean Mediterranean diet, now I am doing about 80% clean meaning no processed foods and 20% ) and controlling insulin spikes. There's a book from a French biochemist - Jessie Inchauspé - I've implemented for a year a now and my cravings are under control thanks to it. 

I take Magnesium & Vit D as prescribed (2nd blood test this Thursday, wish me luck with my thyroid haha) but I don't know what else I should do to help my metabolism.

[Lotus]

oh boy! How complex it is the human body! Well, at least I can be the guinea pig for al PCOS girls here!   However, if Fenugreek might not work, could Pueraria be a good alternative? Or what herb could work?? 

Ikr, at least we've mechanic's of PCOS figured out. For as long as I've been researching PCOS it just suddenly dawned on me we're approaching it backwards 

About the progesterone, I think it does not hurt anyone at least. Or my experience with it (using just 8 days during luteal phase and just once a day) has been positive. Whenever I use progesterone in breast or wrists, I get tingly sensations in my chest. Like that feeling we experience when we go through puberty, same.

Funny thing about progesterone, for me taking it in low amounts (100mgs) raises SHBG, it actually may spike DHT. But Taking between 300mg to 400mg (micronized progesterone P4 orally) lowers SHBG and increases free E2 %...which is my goal.

It's possible having addressed PCOS and keeping it under control (checking all the boxes e.g. inhibition of androgens, lowering insulin...etc) we're able to add things like fenugreek/PM without disrupting you're cycle?.   

I've been working on gathering research on the differences of breast growth between global population groups groups...as you'd expect the differences are unique. So when we develop NBE programs here one size doesn't fit all. I think going forward we need think in terms of ethnicity groups...or regional groups when developing NBE Programs. You'll see what I mean when I post the research.  

[Bustyprincess]

oh boy! How complex it is the human body! Well, at least I can be the guinea pig for al PCOS girls here!   However, if Fenugreek might not work, could Pueraria be a good alternative? Or what herb could work?? 

Ikr, at least we've mechanic's of PCOS figured out. For as long as I've been researching PCOS it just suddenly dawned on me we're approaching it backwards 

About the progesterone, I think it does not hurt anyone at least. Or my experience with it (using just 8 days during luteal phase and just once a day) has been positive. Whenever I use progesterone in breast or wrists, I get tingly sensations in my chest. Like that feeling we experience when we go through puberty, same.

Funny thing about progesterone, for me taking it in low amounts (100mgs) raises SHBG, it actually may spike DHT. But Taking between 300mg to 400mg (micronized progesterone P4 orally) lowers SHBG and increases free E2 %...which is my goal.

It's possible having addressed PCOS and keeping it under control (checking all the boxes e.g. inhibition of androgens, lowering insulin...etc) we're able to add things like fenugreek/PM without disrupting you're cycle?.   

I've been working on gathering research on the differences of breast growth between global population groups groups...as you'd expect the differences are unique. So when we develop NBE programs here one size doesn't fit all. I think going forward we need think in terms of ethnicity groups...or regional groups when developing NBE Programs. You'll see what I mean when I post the research.  

Wow Lotus thats so interesting about Progesterone guess its a good thing Im taking 2x 200mg bio progesterone a day then! Also totally agree Im very interested to see your results of research of differences between breast growth of different world populations!! Ive always been super interested as to why women of colour particularly black women tend to have much greater growth and stronger reaction to NBE I get so jealous when I see these gorgeous huge busted women of colour because not only are they stunning but their figures are insane!! 

[Bustyprincess]

Also Id be curious to know if gigantomastia aka macromastia is possible in trans women as everywhere Ive read says its only natal females who can get it/induce it but then I read the other day someone saying it is possible in trans women but just exceedingly RARE so Im confused lol

[SweetO]

Hello again!

So first off   BustyP!! You wanna go big or go home !!  haha I like your idea but hey macromastia means like H cup or something like that right?! It's insane 

Lotus, yes you are right. I think with PCOS it's key to have stress, inflammation, T levels, sleep, diet as perfect it can be to let the magic happen