[Lotus]

Hi again minimango, 

I see some opportunities in your herb schedule for improvements. Flaxseed oil can be antiestrogenic for some people, saw palmetto inhibits progesterone receptors and reduces estrogen. So I'd eliminate flaxseed and Saw Palmetto, instead opting for GTE (green tea extract), which new research shows GTE inhibits Sirt1 (Sirtuins) which is a known longevity pathway (extending life span). 

Flaxseed (lignans) anti-estrogenic
https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=20403 


Saw Palmetto #1 w/o Theory
https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=17712&pid=97596#pid97596

The plant steroids in saw palmetto act on progesterone receptors, an action that causes a reduction in estrogen levels. According to the results of a large international trial published in the "Journal of Clinical Oncology" in April 2011, estrogen and progesterone receptor status is a predictive marker of early breast cancer and post-treatment relapse.
https://www.medicinenet.com/saw_palmetto...tamins.htm
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97842#ixzz2rExiZdx7

Inhibit DHT in the liver. (reishi inhibits serum DHT @ 80%) dutas @93%, finasteride @70% and saw palmetto inhibits DHT @ 32%, in otherwords reishi is a stronger anti-androgen over daw Saw Palmetto.

Technically, MSM stimulates the stat5 pathway which facilitates phosphorylation and the nuclear translocation and DNA binding...in other words it helps with breast growth. MSM also stimulates prolactin and enhances GH (growth hormone)...but it needs to be taken in certain amounts.

Please pm me and I'll be happy to discuss in further detail the options available...the things I'll suggest are specific to your needs. It's funny how some of my original ideas are claimed by others.

[surferjoe2007]

The Wikipedia DHEA-S reference range isn't a day 4 test result. It's between days 1 thru 14 if you actually read the research link. To show a comparison on how far off the wiki reference range is off I'm attaching LabCorp DHEA-S reference ranges for day 1 thru 14.


20 to 24 y

Female (μg/dL)

110.0−431.7

25 to 34 y

Female (μg/dL)

84.8−378.0

https://www.labcorp.com/tests/004020/deh...ea-sulfate

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroe...ne_sulfate
Wikipedia has these reference ranges for women (ug/dl):
Age, Lower Limit, Upper Limit
18–29 years, 44, 332
30–39 years, 31, 228
40–49 years, 18, 244

Oh interesting, I just went with one of the options you mentioned.  Do you have a link to what it should be for day 4?  Or did you mean to say that her DHEA-S is too low rather than too high?

[Lotus]

Oh interesting, I just went with one of the options you mentioned.  Do you have a link to what it should be for day 4?  Or did you mean to say that her DHEA-S is too low rather than too high?

It doesn't make a difference now because the calculation was off, in fact it was low. The point is minimango spelled out her mood swings, hair loss, stress and fatigue...which are signs of adrenal fatigue, there's a slim chance of PCOS and even possibly Lupus. I'm trying to help her here, are you? There's a reason why labs are tested on certain days (e.g. day 3-4)...you should spend researching that.
______________________

Minimango, 

I'm offering a hypothetical on why it is still possible to have link to PCOS (albeit slim). Some women who have pcos don't even know it. In the literature below they describe where DHEA-S is actually lowered overtime. Read the study, it's quite interesting because it describes some of the symptoms you point out and describe…remember I'm just offering a hypothesis. 

DHEA and polycystic ovarian syndrome: Meta-analysis of case-control studies
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8691613/

PCOS women tend to suffer from psychological symptoms of mood swings, depression and anxiety, I'm listing a few of the highlights from the Meta-analysis. Some fit some don't.

It is known that acute psychosocial stress increases cortisol release in response to ACTH. As, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its sulphated form (DHEA-S) are also released from adrenals in response to ACTH, it is quite logical to regard that the DHEA is also increased in response to acute stress [11]. However, long term psychosocial stress causes a decline in the levels of DHEA and its sulphated form, as it plays a role in resilience and successful adaptation to extreme stress [12].

30 studies were qualified for meta-analysis. Three studies were further separated as they had more than one case-control groups. Therefore, the total number of final studies included was 33 articles.

PCOS women with infertility tend to be more anxious and this often sparks into a vicious cycle where increased anxiety and stress worsens infertility and vice-versa. Moreover, these women tend to adopt unhealthy eating behaviours and sedentary lifestyle so as to cope up with the psychological distress and emotional trauma

[surferjoe2007]

Minimango:
https://www.tysonsgynecology.com/dhea-for-women/amp/
Stress can lead to higher cortisol and lower DHEA.  Which can lead to issues such as fatigue and depression.

https://www-dna--milano-it.translate.goog/ormoni-dimagrimento-localizzato-tu-biotipo/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6270500/

A slow release carbohydrate in the morning can lower cortisol, such as a fibrous starch.  But not sugars.  Whole grains and other seeds also contain nutrients essential for hormones and for mood.  Or the foods in my signature link are balanced to contain nearly all the various vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and more.  Protein OTOH raises cortisol, especially high protein diets in women.  I would definitely stay away from that.  A reasonable amount of cardio is also helpful for stress.  Cortisol also disrupts sleep and lowers estrogen and progesterone.

Ashwaghandha extract us helpful for stress and fenugreek or shatavari extract is helpful for depression, but I think diet is the main thing since what your body can make is limited by its nutrients. 

Yes if you can reduce stress that is likely helpful.

I couldn’t find consistent information on DHEA supplementation.  It’s not always a good idea.  You’d probably want to talk to your doctor before taking it and to figure out how much to take, if any.

A prebiotic such as 5+g inulin powder or at least a golf ball sized sunchoke (which contains inulin) is also good for gut bacteria who give a constant 24 hour supply of B vitamins for stress and sleep.  Sunchokes helped me a lot in college.  You want to start slow and let the gut bacteria multiply because without enough gut bacteria to digest them you’ll get gassy.

[Robinh12]

One other thing: I increased in size by several cup sizes from the summer to the fall of last year, but since November, my growth has slowed down or even reversed a little. This is terrible. Although I wouldn't characterise this as full-on sadness, I haven't been eating as much or using my herbs as consistently, and occasionally I've experienced a melancholy feeling. How do I resume growing?

[Robinh12]

Another thing: I grew several cup sizes from the summer to the fall of last year, but my growth has slowed or even reversed slightly since November. This is a disaster. Although I wouldn't call it sadness, I haven't been eating as much or using my herbs as consistently, and I've had a melancholy feeling on occasion. How do I get back to growing?

[Robinh12]

One more thing: From the summer to the fall of last year, I went up several cup sizes, but since November, my growth has slowed down or even reversed a little. This is awful. I haven't been eating as much or using my herbs as frequently, though I wouldn't describe this as outright sadness, and occasionally I've felt down. How do I get my growth back?

[nanakante]

In general, testosterone levels for biological women range from 8-60 ng/dL, and estradiol levels vary depending on the phase of the menstrual cycle. FSH and LH levels typically peak during ovulation while prolactin levels may increase during pregnancy and breastfeeding. Progesterone significantly increases during the luteal phase and helps prepare the uterus for potential pregnancy. DHEA-S levels can also vary and higher levels are known to cause excess hair growth, acne and oily skin.